631 réponses à ce sujet

[Bourne Endeavor]

Beastpwnguy7 wrote...

I honestly think that if the ending wasnt so poorly done, we would not be having this conversation. Until the last 15 minutes of mass effect 3, I was certain that it was the most fun, engaging, and compelling game series I've ever played, despite its flaws. Not so much anymore.

More than likely. Once you lose trust in a writer, you begin to see things you may have been willing to overlook before.

[JonathonPR]

o Ventus wrote...

What constitutes as "real sci-fi"?

There is a wide range of scifi and near scifi flavors. Many stories will lean toward one of the big three catagories with a little dabling of the other two.
 The basics of scifi is a Socratic exercise with a scientific idea as the center of the story. What if x. 

Hard scifi is limited to accepted contemporary science and technology. What if technology x had been used a different way earlier on, had been invented earlier, or how might society change in the future because of the technolgy that is just coming out now.

Soft scifi is much more lenient. It accepts possible but not confirmed scientific principles to be used. A rough explanation for how it might work can be made based on modern science. It does not require imaginary materials or bending the laws of physics to work. It might contain small doses of science fantasy but they are in the background.

Science fantasy can just make stuff up. There are only the thinist of connection between modern proven science and what is presented in the story. It allows for FTL, biotics/Force/psionics, Extraterrestrials that look, act, and talk like humans in some way, and what Asimov referd to as "eye scifi". It looks cool and futureistic but does not have any meningful focus on exploring scientific concepts or how society would react to a technology.

[mopotter]

Drewton wrote...

Every time I go back to Mass Effect, even 3, I'm remind that it's just better than 95% of the games out there.

Yes.  I dislike the ending a lot and I always will.  The EC helped and so did citadel but I haven't played since probably April '12.  

But I was checking out some other post and I realized that as much as I dislike the ending in ME3, BioWare makes the type of games I want my granddaughter to play when she's older. (she's almost 2 so by the time she's playing maybe it will be like the holodeck:O).    And BioWare is one of the few developers that let me play a great character who can be male or female and the gives me a good story.  This is what I want for her.  Games like Skyrim, Fall Out and especially BioWare games.  With this light bulb moment, I'm going to go start a new Me1 game and carry it though to the end, or at least to Citadel.   

[o Ventus]

JonathonPR wrote...

There is a wide range of scifi and near scifi flavors. Many stories will lean toward one of the big three catagories with a little dabling of the other two.

 The basics of scifi is a Socratic exercise with a scientific idea as the center of the story. What if x. 
Hard scifi is limited to accepted contemporary science and technology. What if technology x had been used a different way earlier on, had been invented earlier, or how might society change in the future because of the technolgy that is just coming out now.

Soft scifi is much more lenient. It accepts possible but not confirmed scientific principles to be used. A rough explanation for how it might work can be made based on modern science. It does not require imaginary materials or bending the laws of physics to work. It might contain small doses of science fantasy but they are in the background.

Science fantasy can just make stuff up. There are only the thinist of connection between modern proven science and what is presented in the story. It allows for FTL, biotics/Force/psionics, Extraterrestrials that look, act, and talk like humans in some way, and what Asimov referd to as "eye scifi". It looks cool and futureistic but does not have any meningful focus on exploring scientific concepts or how society would react to a technology.

And not one of these comes even remotely close to answering my question.

Modifié par o Ventus, 29 juillet 2013 - 04:44 .

[Iakus]

mopotter wrote...

But I was checking out some other post and I realized that as much as I dislike the ending in ME3, BioWare makes the type of games I want my granddaughter to play when she's older. (she's almost 2 so by the time she's playing maybe it will be like the holodeck:O).    And BioWare is one of the few developers that let me play a great character who can be male or female and the gives me a good story.  This is what I want for her.  Games like Skyrim, Fall Out and especially BioWare games.  With this light bulb moment, I'm going to go start a new Me1 game and carry it though to the end, or at least to Citadel.   

This used to be true.  Now I'm not so sure.  Bioware seems to have lost the storytelling magic they once had.  Now "story" is just an excuse to shoot/evicerate bad guys like any other action game.  Who your character is matters not one whit.  "You exist because we allow it, and will end because we demand it"

A Holodeck version of teh Baldur's Gate games would be cool, though

[AlanC9]

If that 's true, how did ME3 manage to hurt you so much?

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

If that 's true, how did ME3 manage to hurt you so much?

Because ME3's outcome killed not just ME3 for me, but the entire Mass Effect trilogy.  From teh moment we hear Hacket, Udina and Anderson discussing putting Shepard forward as a Spectre candidate, the path is set.  Every step taken is a step closer to the confrontation with the Catalyst.  And to compromise, and death

The choices don't matter, the turnout will always be the same.  Shepard in all three games is essentially a dead man walking, who will frak up the galaxy with his funeral pyre.  Future societies will be built upon this atrocity, and "The Shepard" will be thanked for it

In a game supposedly about player choice, there is now a degree of dread and inevitability that make me not want to play in teh Mass Effect universe anymore.

[Bleachrude]

iakus wrote...


In a game supposedly about player choice, there is now a degree of dread and inevitability that make me not want to play in teh Mass Effect universe anymore.

Then Ihonestly suggest you leave BSN.

I don't understand why you're still around if you hate it so much. Hell, I honestly don't understand why people that absolutely despise a company bother sticking around...it is honestly better for you personally to simply write off ME and move on.

Let the people who actually still enjoy the games actually talk about it warts and all...

[Iakus]

Bleachrude wrote...

iakus wrote...


In a game supposedly about player choice, there is now a degree of dread and inevitability that make me not want to play in teh Mass Effect universe anymore.

Then Ihonestly suggest you leave BSN.

I don't understand why you're still around if you hate it so much. Hell, I honestly don't understand why people that absolutely despise a company bother sticking around...it is honestly better for you personally to simply write off ME and move on.

Let the people who actually still enjoy the games actually talk about it warts and all...

tl;dr:

"I'm happy so STFU"

[ShepnTali]

I can understand it feeling like an inevitable death march, but I feel the world they created is bigger than any destruction they can lay to it. I had good times along the way, and I can relive those good times without worrying about how it ends. I'll always look forward to Citadel.

[Erez Kristal]

Iakus, bleachrude is right.
We can whine about it. or do something about it.
The choice is ours.

[Bleachrude]

iakus wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

iakus wrote...

In a game supposedly about player choice, there is now a degree of dread and inevitability that make me not want to play in teh Mass Effect universe anymore.

Then Ihonestly suggest you leave BSN.

I don't understand why you're still around if you hate it so much. Hell, I honestly don't understand why people that absolutely despise a company bother sticking around...it is honestly better for you personally to simply write off ME and move on.

Let the people who actually still enjoy the games actually talk about it warts and all...

tl;dr:

"I'm happy so STFU"

Doesn't change the fact that I believe I'm right...You believe that there is nothing good left in the ME universe since the ending ruined everything...so why stick around?

There's nothing BW can do that can change this as you stated so it's not like any suggestion other than "invent time machine and undo the ending" will sffice.

There _ARE_ problems with the ME games (not just ME3) but in general, I really enjoyed them and I still even after a year I like doing playthroughs (although admittedly, youtube has killed this for me and a LOT of RPGs even stellar ones like the Witcher or DA:O)

I actually look forward to the next ME game cause while you only focus on the negatives, I think there was a lot of positives they improved on that I would like to see used.

[mopotter]

Bleachrude wrote...

iakus wrote...


In a game supposedly about player choice, there is now a degree of dread and inevitability that make me not want to play in teh Mass Effect universe anymore.

Then Ihonestly suggest you leave BSN.

I don't understand why you're still around if you hate it so much. Hell, I honestly don't understand why people that absolutely despise a company bother sticking around...it is honestly better for you personally to simply write off ME and move on.

Let the people who actually still enjoy the games actually talk about it warts and all...

Irritates me to no end when people do this.  This is a subject about the game being overrated which implies problems, not a subject that says ME the greatest game every played and all endings were wonderful.  

I hate what they did with the ending, but I certainly don't despise the company and if we don't continue to remind the developers what was so distasteful about the endings, there is no chance that future games will have more options  where the ending is concerned.  

People who enjoy the endings, who have no complaints about anything that BW has done or will do in the future, should probably stay on the subject options that support this and stay away from the ones they don't agree with.  Your wasting your time complaining about those of us who are complaining.  

[Bleachrude]

*Shrug*

I thought the endings were unclear and a tad too ambiguous given that this was the end of the Cmdr. Shepard story.

As for the OP, again as another poster mentioned, space opera in the veing of Star Wars/Trek is actually rare.

The last 2 big space opera in mass media I can think of would be Babylon 5 and Farscape and those shows are old....

[Iakus]

erezike wrote...

Iakus, bleachrude is right.
We can whine about it. or do something about it.
The choice is ours.

Voicing what we dislike about ME3 isn't whining.

Nor is expressing deep concern about the direction the company is going

I own a registered copy of the game, thus I am permitted to post in these forums unless I do something bannable.

As such, I am exercising my right to provide feedback to whatever developer chooses to peruse these threads.

That is what I'm choosing to do here.  I am not going to jump into a beam of space magic, no matter what others may wish

As to Bleachrude, I'm just going to quote everyone's favorite mod here:  "Complaining about complaints is unproductive"

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

If that 's true, how did ME3 manage to hurt you so much?

Because ME3's outcome killed not just ME3 for me, but the entire Mass Effect trilogy.  From teh moment we hear Hacket, Udina and Anderson discussing putting Shepard forward as a Spectre candidate, the path is set.  Every step taken is a step closer to the confrontation with the Catalyst.  And to compromise, and death

The choices don't matter, the turnout will always be the same.  Shepard in all three games is essentially a dead man walking, who will frak up the galaxy with his funeral pyre.  Future societies will be built upon this atrocity, and "The Shepard" will be thanked for it

In a game supposedly about player choice, there is now a degree of dread and inevitability that make me not want to play in teh Mass Effect universe anymore.

Of course, Shepard obviously lives in high EMS destroy, but let's not get into that again. (I'll just play "Shepard's survival is irrelevant" to  keep us on the same page.)

This doesn't strike me as a failure of "storytelling magic," unless "storytelling magic" implicitly means telling a story that you like. They certainly were able to generate plenty of emotional response from you. You aren't reacting to the game like it's all been "an excuse to shoot/evicerate bad guys like any other action game."

[AlanC9]

Bleachrude wrote...
The last 2 big space opera in mass media I can think of would be Babylon 5 and Farscape and those shows are old....

Don't forget the Stargates. But yeah, old too, and done.

Does Defiance count?

[ShepnTali]

iakus wrote...

erezike wrote...

Iakus, bleachrude is right.
We can whine about it. or do something about it.
The choice is ours.

Voicing what we dislike about ME3 isn't whining.

Nor is expressing deep concern about the direction the company is going

I own a registered copy of the game, thus I am permitted to post in these forums unless I do something bannable.

As such, I am exercising my right to provide feedback to whatever developer chooses to peruse these threads.

That is what I'm choosing to do here.  I am not going to jump into a beam of space magic, no matter what others may wish

As to Bleachrude, I'm just going to quote everyone's favorite mod here:  "Complaining about complaints is unproductive"

'Oh, go jump into a beam of space magic'. I like that. I'll have to use it someday.

[Kaipur]

Here's an article that's sure to fill us all with a lot of faith:

http://www.pcgamer.c...l-ending-ideas/

Oh Drew...

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...
This doesn't strike me as a failure of "storytelling magic," unless "storytelling magic" implicitly means telling a story that you like. They certainly were able to generate plenty of emotional response from you. You aren't reacting to the game like it's all been "an excuse to shoot/evicerate bad guys like any other action game."

The emotional response they got from me is not the kind that encourages repeat business, though

And not just from me.  There are many, many others who feel ME3 failed us.  That the destination wrecked the journey and turned it into a pointless exercise.

And if the journey no longer has meaning, what's left but shooting stuff?  And who's to say they won't do it again?

Ah, the pitfalls of multi-game storyarcs and imported saves.  What if you don't want to hold onto a game's save files, because the story failed you so hard?

[Cainhurst Crow]

A month after I read it, and that ending idea is still worse than what we got.

[dreamgazer]

Kaipur wrote...

Here's an article that's sure to fill us all with a lot of faith:

http://www.pcgamer.c...l-ending-ideas/

Oh Drew...

"I find it funny that fans end up hearing a couple things they like about it and in their minds they add in all the details they specifically want. It's like vapourware - vapourware is always perfect, anytime someone talks about the new greatest game. It's perfect until it comes out. I'm a little weary about going into too much detail because, whatever we came up with, it probably wouldn't be what people want it to be."

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...

The emotional response they got from me is not the kind that encourages repeat business, though

The emotional response from many people that hated the endings on this board were that it was one of the best games they'd ever played besides the ending. That does encourage repeat business, unless for some bizarre reason you think BioWare is going to try another ending like ME3's OEs.

[Bleachrude]

AlanC9 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...
The last 2 big space opera in mass media I can think of would be Babylon 5 and Farscape and those shows are old....

Don't forget the Stargates. But yeah, old too, and done.

Does Defiance count?

Not sure Stargate counts as space opera since

a) there aren't that many alien races - the jaffa are all humans that were taken originally from earth
you spend the majority of the time shooting the aliens.

Defiance is actually closer to the space opera genre but it lacks the "let's hop in our spaceship and have an adventure on another planet" vibe I attribute to space opera...

Seems more like a modernized planetary romance series. Or even closer to say post-apocalyptic storylines (of course, nowhere near as grim and depressing).

In videogames though....space opera other than videogames based on Wars and Trek specifically? I'm actually blanking on this....

Is there a game where the Mos Eisley/Quark's bar/Omega's Afterlife scene would be perfectly normal? Aka - you walk into a bar where various beings, humans and aliens are just having drinks?

That is a defining scene for me personally for something to be considered space opera...Babylon 5 has it, Farscape has it but I can't think of many games which have it though...

I want to say one of the 4x space games, but those games, it's clearly humans vs alien X vs alien Y vs alien Z.