631 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

Ah, the pitfalls of multi-game storyarcs and imported saves.  What if you don't want to hold onto a game's save files, because the story failed you so hard?

Simple: you ditch it, if you're unable to handle what they've presented and where they've taken the material.

You wouldn't be the only one, but don't think that other's appreciation for previous and upcoming installments somehow disappears if you decide to cash in your chips. The world will keep spinning.

[Cainhurst Crow]

No one and nothing is the center of the universe, so it's stupid for a person to act as if their's or someone else's decisions are the be all and end all of whatever is being discussed.

Kinda getting sick of that mentality more and more cropping up here on the BSN.

Now than, is there anything new that's happened, even a simple joke tweet or out of context tweet? Anything?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 29 juillet 2013 - 07:18 .

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

The emotional response they got from me is not the kind that encourages repeat business, though

And not just from me.  There are many, many others who feel ME3 failed us.  That the destination wrecked the journey and turned it into a pointless exercise.

And if the journey no longer has meaning, what's left but shooting stuff?  And who's to say they won't do it again?

So pointlessness and meaninglessness result from getting an emotional experience you don't like? And all you have left is the shooting because the emotional experience doesn't work but the shooting still does? I'm surprised the shooting still works, actually.

They very well might do it again. I kinda hope they do. I had problems with ME3's execution, but I like that they tried it. Of course, that's easy for me to say because the game didn't give me the kind of existential despair you got. What I got was a kind of grim satisfaction, which I like just fine.

Modifié par AlanC9, 29 juillet 2013 - 07:20 .

[Erez Kristal]

AlanC9 wrote...



Of course, Shepard obviously lives in high EMS destroy, but let's not get into that again. (I'll just play "Shepard's survival is irrelevant" to  keep us on the same page.)

This doesn't strike me as a failure of "storytelling magic," unless "storytelling magic" implicitly means telling a story that you like. They certainly were able to generate plenty of emotional response from you. You aren't reacting to the game like it's all been "an excuse to shoot/evicerate bad guys like any other action game."

To be fair, the game was ruined for me the moment i lost control over shepard to bioware(first minute of the game)
It just kept on getting worse from there.
The cliff hanger you refer to as shepard lives, is the final bullet put in my mass effect exprience.

Takes a long time to recover from that insult.

So yeah, a trap 5 years in the making.

[CronoDragoon]

erezike wrote...
To be fair, the game was ruined for me the moment i lost control over shepard to bioware(first minute of the game)
It just kept on getting worse from there.
The cliff hanger you refer to as shepard lives, is the final bullet put in my mass effect exprience.

Takes a long time to recover from that insult.

So yeah, a trap 5 years in the making.

Hyperbole at its best.

[dreamgazer]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Hyperbole at its best.

Hyperbole? Here? Surely you jest.

[CronoDragoon]

dreamgazer wrote...

Hyperbole? Here? Surely you jest.

I have never jested in my life, and anyone who suggests otherwise is a damn fascist.

[Bleachrude]

Getting back tot he OP, what are we actually rating the ME series against?

In terms of world-building, constructing an entirely fictional space society with multiple alien races is going to take you much longer than say your typical medieval fantasy RPG (witcher, dragon age, skyrim).

How much effort is spent on working on alien race designs when compared to how much effort is spent on say creating the non human races for DA:O.

[Erez Kristal]

CronoDragoon instead of us repeating our regular boring repartee. lets innovate.

What makes my camp upset with mass effect 3?

Modifié par erezike, 29 juillet 2013 - 07:37 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

So pointlessness and meaninglessness result from getting an emotional experience you don't like? And all you have left is the shooting because the emotional experience doesn't work but the shooting still does? I'm surprised the shooting still works, actually.

When that emotional response comes down to "Your entire five year journey unavoidably ends with an atrocity and probable death"  yes.  It renders everything pointless and meaningless to me if nothing I do can avert that fate.  That the shooting is somehow "awesome" does nothing to asuage that feeling.

They very well might do it again. I kinda hope they do. I had problems with ME3's execution, but I like that they tried it. Of course, that's easy for me to say because the game didn't give me the kind of existential despair you got. What I got was a kind of grim satisfaction, which I like just fine.

Yes, it is easy for you to say.  I know this because for all its flaws, I really don't despise DA2 the way many others do.

But I don't ridicule those who do despise it, because I respect their opinion and, at this point, greatly understand it.

Modifié par iakus, 29 juillet 2013 - 07:40 .

[CronoDragoon]

erezike wrote...

CronoDragoon instead of us repeating our regular boring repartee. lets innovate.

What makes my camp upset with mass effect 3?

There is no single unifying thing that makes "your camp" upset with Mass Effect 3. Case in point I have no idea what "your camp" even is. Are you talking about those who disliked the ending? Or those that disliked the whole game?

[Erez Kristal]

CronoDragoon wrote...

erezike wrote...

CronoDragoon instead of us repeating our regular boring repartee. lets innovate.

What makes my camp upset with mass effect 3?

There is no single unifying thing that makes "your camp" upset with Mass Effect 3. Case in point I have no idea what "your camp" even is. Are you talking about those who disliked the ending? Or those that disliked the whole game?

 Three camps.
My camp: Consist of two groups of people: Those who didnt like the game for many merits, most of use are people who enjoyed roleplaying our shepard in the previosu titles and had no ability to do so in me3. our shepards would have done many things differently and reacted a lot differently to situations presented in me3.
Those who still have bad memories of me3 due to the ending which crashed their dreams and other factors they dont realise which are releated to the first group.

Second camp - those who dont really care about me3 they are just in it for the multiplayer or have forgotten all about it

Third camp - those who have enjoyed mass effect wholeheartly, some of them may have not like certain parts in the game but their general feeling was good, they were ready to jump into the beam of white magic.

[dreamgazer]

Trying to create "camps" out of all this is ridiculous, especially nearly a year and a half later and post-EC. People fall anywhere between those neat little groups.

[Erez Kristal]

dreamgazer wrote...

Trying to create "camps" out of all this is ridiculous, especially nearly a year and a half later and post-EC. People fall anywhere between those neat little groups.

Meta critic would beg to differ. http://www.metacriti...c/mass-effect-3
There are three camps: Green, Yellow and red.

The yellow dont care and are long gone.
The Green Support me3 and bioware as a whole even if some of them have some setbacks.

The red - Are unhappy with the game bioware have produced for several and different reasons.

The red and the green often clash in constant bickering on the bsn.
Its easy to see whos who.
And thats ok 

Modifié par erezike, 29 juillet 2013 - 08:02 .

[CronoDragoon]

erezike wrote...
 Three camps.
My camp: Consist of two groups of people: Those who didnt like the game for many merits, most of use are people who enjoyed roleplaying our shepard in the previosu titles and had no ability to do so in me3. our shepards would have done many things differently and reacted a lot differently to situations presented in me3.
Those who still have bad memories of me3 due to the ending which crashed their dreams and other factors they dont realise which are releated to the first group.

Second camp - those who dont really care about me3 they are just in it for the multiplayer or have forgotten all about it

Third camp - those who have enjoyed mass effect wholeheartly, some of them may have not like certain parts in the game but their general feeling was good, they were ready to jump into the beam of white magic.

Those are four camps, since those two groups in first camp don''t agree on virtually anything except they didn't like the ending.

As for your camp that dislikes many aspects of the game, you dislike auto-dialogue and the lack of dialogue wheels, you dislike the lack of exploration, you dislike the Crucible, you dislike the EMS system, you dislike certain choices in previous entries being trivialized in ME3, you dislike the underwhelming nature of Priority Earth, and finally you dislike the endings.

You are acting like I ignore complaints about ME3 or BioWare. I don't. I know them very well and disagree with some, agree with others. To me, ME3 is an incredible game despite its shortcomings, most of which center around the ending.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 29 juillet 2013 - 08:02 .

[dreamgazer]

erezike wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Trying to create "camps" out of all this is ridiculous, especially nearly a year and a half later and post-EC. People fall anywhere between those neat little groups.

Meta critic would be to differ.
There are three camps: Green, Yellow and red.

And you think your described arrangement lines up with the system on there? 

Let's not forget about the bitter rating bombs (which there were plenty) and easy-to-satisfy drone votes that can throw that value off greatly.

Stop trying to force people's opinions into neat, color-coated boxes.

[Erez Kristal]

You forgot forcing shepard to start on earth, timeskip, galaxy going dumb and cerberus derp.
But beside that i think you got it all right ;-)

It really falls to how you would roleplay your shepard, if you agree with the writers vision for shepard then you would have a better time playing mass effect 3.

If you roleplayed shepard differently than the writers then your chances to enjoy mass effect 3 lessen drasticly.
Renegades and paragedes who strived to act in a rational way. were neglected and streamlined into an alliance first shepard and galaxy second. this was a major setback for us.

[Erez Kristal]

dreamgazer wrote...

erezike wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Trying to create "camps" out of all this is ridiculous, especially nearly a year and a half later and post-EC. People fall anywhere between those neat little groups.

Meta critic would be to differ.
There are three camps: Green, Yellow and red.

And you think your described arrangement lines up with the system on there? 

Let's not forget about the bitter rating bombs (which there were plenty) and easy-to-satisfy drone votes that can throw that value off greatly.


Stop trying to force people's opinions into neat, color-coated boxes.

we both knows those go both ways. i didnt bring up mass effect 3 low score to the discussion. i brought the idea of three camps into it, nothing more.

Whats wrong with neat boxes?
Can we not simply look at something in a way
Liked
Not liked
and neutral? these has been done for many times on many different occasions. and we have it here at its finest.

Modifié par erezike, 29 juillet 2013 - 08:10 .

[dreamgazer]

I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle: I still like the series, I still replay the games, I found ME3 to be heavily flawed but still enjoyable and somewhat interesting (even aspects of the ending), and I'm not apathetic nor in it for MP.

I'm nowhere in the original group descriptions you posted, erezike, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Erez Kristal]

dreamgazer wrote...

I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle: I still like the series, I still replay the games, I found ME3 to be heavily flawed but still enjoyable and somewhat interesting (even aspects of the ending), and I'm not apathetic nor in it for MP.

I'm nowhere in the original group descriptions you posted, erezike, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

how much would you rate it dreamgazer?

[CronoDragoon]

erezike wrote...
 how much would you rate it dreamgazer?

Numbers are arbitrary and a flawed way of analyzing a game. Someone who hates the story and loves the gameplay may give the game the same rating as someone who loves the story and hates the gameplay. Same camp in your opinion?

[Fixers0]

The Ultimate reason as to why the Mass Efect series failed in many aspects, is that it's narrative inevitably collapsed under it's own weight, surely the Writers did what they could to postpone this event, some done in smarter ways then others, as is heavily witnessed in Mass Effect 2, which is, when it all comes down just an incredibly poor attempt to push the series forward without meaningfull progression of any kind.

With Mass Effect 3 we finally saw how the comming collapse ate a way our dialogue system and meaningfull player agency, How the narrative "decides" what happend in the past and how the player acts, How repercussions of previous events where "delegated" to War assets, How Multiplayer is used to draw attetion away from singleplayer, How multiplayer maps had to be used in order to fill in sidequest, How the Journal and codex murdered by lack of space and How the endings are nonsensical pieces of trash.

So yeah, perhaps one day I'll release: "The rise and fall of Mass Effect".

[Erez Kristal]

CronoDragoon wrote...

erezike wrote...
 how much would you rate it dreamgazer?

Numbers are arbitrary and a flawed way of analyzing a game. Someone who hates the story and loves the gameplay may give the game the same rating as someone who loves the story and hates the gameplay. Same camp in your opinion?

 
I am very attentive to measuring things with numbers, so i think its easier for me to rate games.
I rate movies i see, books i read. girls who walk down the street, past and present girlfriends, how good did i do in the last day.
It doesnt mean i ignore the good, or i feel bad because of a low number. i simply acknowledge it.

You have ups and down in everything. this is why you throw them in the blender, taste them and figure out how it makes you feel. I rate the feeling in the end.

but if numbers are flawed, then what what easy way would you suggest to seperate the good  from the greater?

[Bleachrude]

And fixer0 shows how their isn't a balanced viewpoint.

Let's take a look at the sidequests shall we?

In previous ME games, the sidequests were done using the same random pre-fab environmental cargo containers and the only difference is how they were re-arranged.

It got to the point in both games that you can't actually remember what makes sidequest B's location from sidequest C...indeed, this was one of the major complaints on BSN. The feeling that the sidequest maps were simply dashed together (especially the mako "find the salarian/asari/turian" sidequests.planets - first time was cool, but by "find salarian/turian/asari number 7 of 14, it had become tedious)

Yet, in ME3, the fact that each N7 mission has its own distinct map that you actually reference them by their features is seen as a BAD thing?

Can you actually remember the difference in the previous side quest maps? Can you actually describe the planet where you found salarian "Voice of one" tag number 7 ?

So bioware gets smart and uses the individualistic multiplayer maps and this is seen as a failing of the game?

You do realize that without the MP maps, you would get the same type of environments that ME1 and ME2 used for their sidequests right?

Modifié par Bleachrude, 29 juillet 2013 - 08:38 .