180 réponses à ce sujet

[stysiaq]

I don't believe in the numbers mr. Eric gave us here.

[Maveric11]

Eric Fagnan wrote...
The BPP, like the Hurricane, is balanced around being a close range SMG. If you use it at long distances, you will no doubt miss with a lot of your bullets and your damage will drop significantly.

lol. barrage upgrade ftw

[Drayce333]

R.I.P. BPP.

When do you wish to hold the funeral stardusk?

[Krazy_Kirby]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

4 URs, 3 are garbage.

Well that is confusing because the venom is maybe not great but it's good and the spitfire is great. The lancer however is another of those stupid overheat weapons. Give me ammo anyday over those types.(yes i play plat and no I don't have ammo problems)

[Krazy_Kirby]

stysiaq wrote...

I don't believe in the numbers mr. Eric gave us here.

Nice batman clip in your sig.

[upinya slayin]

megabeast37215 wrote...

The Fagnan has spoken!

The BPP is a boss killer... that's how I felt about it too.

Its amazing on an edi bot

That AP shot it fires does a ton of damage

[Sulaco_7]

january42 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our balance testing, without reload canceling the BPP does about 23% less sustained damage than the Hurricane on non-armored targets, but about 29% more sustained damage than the Hurricane on armored targets. Like any fast firing weapon, you should put a penetration mod on the weapon if you want good damage against armor. The BPP, like the Hurricane, is balanced around being a close range SMG. If you use it at long distances, you will no doubt miss with a lot of your bullets and your damage will drop significantly.

How do you figure that.  I used the stats from here.  As far as I've seem, the way the BPP works is, every 8th bullet does 5X damage with a 2.5 multiplier vs armor.   We just compare per 8 bullets as the clip size and ROF are the same forth both guns(600).


A Hurricane X does
nonarmor=   128.1 * 8 = 1024.8
vs armor:  (128.1-50) * 8 = 624.8
with ap barrel = (128.1-5) * 8 = 984.8

I wasn't sure about this, so we will give the BPP the benfit of the doubte and assume that the ap bullet comes out in addiiton to a normal bullet. (so it's actually firing 9 bullets here, 8 normal and 1 ap.)
BPP X does:
non armor = 47.75 * 8 + 5 * 47.75 = 620.75
vs armor =  5 * 8 + (5 * 47.75) * 2.5 -50 = 586.875  (minimum damage is 5 IIRC)
with ap barrel = (47.75-5)*8 +  (5*47.75) * 2.5  - 5 = 933.875

With the AP barrel the Punisher comes close to hurricane but doesn't seem to beat it.  And it's significantly worse in every other case.  What did I do wrong there?

Those numbers get even worse if there isn't a normal bullet fired at the same time as the AP bullet.

Does it always fire the ap bullent when you start firing so you supposed to rapidly press the trigger instead of holding it down or something?

You should PM this to Eric.  It's hard to dispute the math.  How can the BPP do 29% more damage to armor when the math doesn't work out. 

[BjornDaDwarf]

january42 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our balance testing, without reload canceling the BPP does about 23% less sustained damage than the Hurricane on non-armored targets, but about 29% more sustained damage than the Hurricane on armored targets. Like any fast firing weapon, you should put a penetration mod on the weapon if you want good damage against armor. The BPP, like the Hurricane, is balanced around being a close range SMG. If you use it at long distances, you will no doubt miss with a lot of your bullets and your damage will drop significantly.

How do you figure that.  I used the stats from here.  As far as I've seem, the way the BPP works is, every 8th bullet does 5X damage with a 2.5 multiplier vs armor.   We just compare per 8 bullets as the clip size and ROF are the same forth both guns(600).


A Hurricane X does
nonarmor=   128.1 * 8 = 1024.8
vs armor:  (128.1-50) * 8 = 624.8
with ap barrel = (128.1-5) * 8 = 984.8

I wasn't sure about this, so we will give the BPP the benfit of the doubte and assume that the ap bullet comes out in addiiton to a normal bullet. (so it's actually firing 9 bullets here, 8 normal and 1 ap.)
BPP X does:
non armor = 47.75 * 8 + 5 * 47.75 = 620.75
vs armor =  5 * 8 + (5 * 47.75) * 2.5 -50 = 586.875  (minimum damage is 5 IIRC)
with ap barrel = (47.75-5)*8 +  (5*47.75) * 2.5  - 5 = 933.875

With the AP barrel the Punisher comes close to hurricane but doesn't seem to beat it.  And it's significantly worse in every other case.  What did I do wrong there?

Those numbers get even worse if there isn't a normal bullet fired at the same time as the AP bullet.

Does it always fire the ap bullent when you start firing so you supposed to rapidly press the trigger instead of holding it down or something?

I don't have the BPP yet, so I'm asking out of ignorance.  Does it consume multiple bullets per shot?  The Hurricane does.  So per clip (with no extenders) the 'cane is firing 20 shots, the BPP is firing 40-45 (depending on if the AP bullet is an extra shot or not).   Therefore, over time, the number of reloads of the 'cane will lower it's sustained DPS.   But Burst/Single clip DPS will favor the Hurricane.  

Modifié par BjornDaDwarf, 06 mars 2013 - 07:41 .

[Kalas Magnus]

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

4 URs, 3 are garbage.

Well that is confusing because the venom is maybe not great but it's good and the spitfire is great. The lancer however is another of those stupid overheat weapons. Give me ammo anyday over those types.(yes i play plat and no I don't have ammo problems)

No. no its not

the lancer is the one worthy of being in the ur category

[Flambrose]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

january42 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our balance testing, without reload canceling the BPP does about 23% less sustained damage than the Hurricane on non-armored targets, but about 29% more sustained damage than the Hurricane on armored targets. Like any fast firing weapon, you should put a penetration mod on the weapon if you want good damage against armor. The BPP, like the Hurricane, is balanced around being a close range SMG. If you use it at long distances, you will no doubt miss with a lot of your bullets and your damage will drop significantly.

How do you figure that.  I used the stats from here.  As far as I've seem, the way the BPP works is, every 8th bullet does 5X damage with a 2.5 multiplier vs armor.   We just compare per 8 bullets as the clip size and ROF are the same forth both guns(600).


A Hurricane X does
nonarmor=   128.1 * 8 = 1024.8
vs armor:  (128.1-50) * 8 = 624.8
with ap barrel = (128.1-5) * 8 = 984.8

I wasn't sure about this, so we will give the BPP the benfit of the doubte and assume that the ap bullet comes out in addiiton to a normal bullet. (so it's actually firing 9 bullets here, 8 normal and 1 ap.)
BPP X does:
non armor = 47.75 * 8 + 5 * 47.75 = 620.75
vs armor =  5 * 8 + (5 * 47.75) * 2.5 -50 = 586.875  (minimum damage is 5 IIRC)
with ap barrel = (47.75-5)*8 +  (5*47.75) * 2.5  - 5 = 933.875

With the AP barrel the Punisher comes close to hurricane but doesn't seem to beat it.  And it's significantly worse in every other case.  What did I do wrong there?

Those numbers get even worse if there isn't a normal bullet fired at the same time as the AP bullet.

Does it always fire the ap bullent when you start firing so you supposed to rapidly press the trigger instead of holding it down or something?

I don't have the BPP yet, so I'm asking out of ignorance.  Does it consume multiple bullets per shot?  The Hurricane does.  So per clip (with no extenders) the 'cane is firing 20 shots, the BPP is firing 40-45 (depending on if the AP bullet is an extra shot or not).   Therefore, over time, the number of reloads of the 'cane will lower it's sustained DPS.   But Burst/Single clip DPS will favor the Hurricane.  

It's 1 bullet per shot, unlike the Hurricane. Like I mentinoed above, balancing the guns without reload cancelling in mind favors the BPP. Hurricane should win with reload cancel.

Modifié par Flambrose, 06 mars 2013 - 07:43 .

[Krazy_Kirby]

Kalas321 wrote...

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

4 URs, 3 are garbage.

Well that is confusing because the venom is maybe not great but it's good and the spitfire is great. The lancer however is another of those stupid overheat weapons. Give me ammo anyday over those types.(yes i play plat and no I don't have ammo problems)

No. no its not

the lancer is the one worthy of being in the ur category

having "infinite" ammo doesn't make up for its low damage.
Also spitfire+jugg =win, even more so once they buff it's damage.

Modifié par Krazy_Kirby, 06 mars 2013 - 07:47 .

[Krazy_Kirby]

upinya slayin wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

The Fagnan has spoken!

The BPP is a boss killer... that's how I felt about it too.

Its amazing on an edi bot

That AP shot it fires does a ton of damage

shotguns are even more amazing on her what with her shotgun bonus and all...but that is the only gun I don't have so idk about it yet

Modifié par Krazy_Kirby, 06 mars 2013 - 07:46 .

[upinya slayin]

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

The Fagnan has spoken!

The BPP is a boss killer... that's how I felt about it too.

Its amazing on an edi bot

That AP shot it fires does a ton of damage

shotguns are even more amazing on her what with her shotgun bonus and all...but that is the only gun I don't have so idk about it yet

challenge banners make you try out some wierd combos lol. but i was mowing enemies down with that combo. still the claymore was made for her

[Jovian09]

We should be saying congratulations to the Tempest instead of Shame On You to the Punisher.

[Krazy_Kirby]

upinya slayin wrote...

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

The Fagnan has spoken!

The BPP is a boss killer... that's how I felt about it too.

Its amazing on an edi bot

That AP shot it fires does a ton of damage

shotguns are even more amazing on her what with her shotgun bonus and all...but that is the only gun I don't have so idk about it yet

challenge banners make you try out some wierd combos lol. but i was mowing enemies down with that combo. still the claymore was made for her

I prefer my Wraith VIII instead of my clamore x

Modifié par Krazy_Kirby, 06 mars 2013 - 07:51 .

[Miniditka77]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

january42 wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our balance testing, without reload canceling the BPP does about 23% less sustained damage than the Hurricane on non-armored targets, but about 29% more sustained damage than the Hurricane on armored targets. Like any fast firing weapon, you should put a penetration mod on the weapon if you want good damage against armor. The BPP, like the Hurricane, is balanced around being a close range SMG. If you use it at long distances, you will no doubt miss with a lot of your bullets and your damage will drop significantly.

How do you figure that.  I used the stats from here.  As far as I've seem, the way the BPP works is, every 8th bullet does 5X damage with a 2.5 multiplier vs armor.   We just compare per 8 bullets as the clip size and ROF are the same forth both guns(600).


A Hurricane X does
nonarmor=   128.1 * 8 = 1024.8
vs armor:  (128.1-50) * 8 = 624.8
with ap barrel = (128.1-5) * 8 = 984.8

I wasn't sure about this, so we will give the BPP the benfit of the doubte and assume that the ap bullet comes out in addiiton to a normal bullet. (so it's actually firing 9 bullets here, 8 normal and 1 ap.)
BPP X does:
non armor = 47.75 * 8 + 5 * 47.75 = 620.75
vs armor =  5 * 8 + (5 * 47.75) * 2.5 -50 = 586.875  (minimum damage is 5 IIRC)
with ap barrel = (47.75-5)*8 +  (5*47.75) * 2.5  - 5 = 933.875

With the AP barrel the Punisher comes close to hurricane but doesn't seem to beat it.  And it's significantly worse in every other case.  What did I do wrong there?

Those numbers get even worse if there isn't a normal bullet fired at the same time as the AP bullet.

Does it always fire the ap bullent when you start firing so you supposed to rapidly press the trigger instead of holding it down or something?

I don't have the BPP yet, so I'm asking out of ignorance.  Does it consume multiple bullets per shot?  The Hurricane does.  So per clip (with no extenders) the 'cane is firing 20 shots, the BPP is firing 40-45 (depending on if the AP bullet is an extra shot or not).   Therefore, over time, the number of reloads of the 'cane will lower it's sustained DPS.   But Burst/Single clip DPS will favor the Hurricane.  

I was thinking the same thing.  The BPP has a larger clip than the Hurricane AND consumes only 1 ammo per shot.  So you can sustain fire for a much longer time, and the math above doesn't take that into account.

Still, I have only tried the BPP on a Bronze solo, and it's underwhelming even at that level.  It was not taking down Bronze Brutes any faster than a Hurricane, and it was absolute horse poo against Bronze mooks.

Modifié par Miniditka77, 06 mars 2013 - 07:51 .

[upinya slayin]

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

The Fagnan has spoken!

The BPP is a boss killer... that's how I felt about it too.

Its amazing on an edi bot

That AP shot it fires does a ton of damage

shotguns are even more amazing on her what with her shotgun bonus and all...but that is the only gun I don't have so idk about it yet

challenge banners make you try out some wierd combos lol. but i was mowing enemies down with that combo. still the claymore was made for her

I prefer my Wraith VIII instead of my clamore x

I'm one of the biggest wraith lovers out there (i've had it at X since like befor earth DLC lol) but the claymore is better for her. with reload csancel i can fire my 2 shots as fast as i can fire my wraith 2 shots if not faster and the 25% multiplicative damage bonus is huge cause teh claymore puts out more damage (wipes out bosses)

[icecoldkilla78]

when i first used the BPP i wasnt too impressed but i havent used the tempest in ages so i cant compare them. i would hope that an UR weapon at III or IV would outclass an uncommon at X tho

[icecoldkilla78]

claymore x >>>>>>>>>>> wraith X. i like the wraith but the claymore just outclasses it

[Knockingbr4in]

So taking into account the recent words of the balance team on the matter, there is basically no hope left for the BPP, as in it will only ever work with Marksman, Hunter Mode and Devastator Mode?

I should go.

[upinya slayin]

icecoldkilla78 wrote...

claymore x >>>>>>>>>>> wraith X. i like the wraith but the claymore just outclasses it

Um nah, i like the wraith better 99% of the time. the edibot though is better with the claymore IMO

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our balance testing, without reload canceling the BPP does about 23% less sustained damage than the Hurricane on non-armored targets, but about 29% more sustained damage than the Hurricane on armored targets. Like any fast firing weapon, you should put a penetration mod on the weapon if you want good damage against armor. The BPP, like the Hurricane, is balanced around being a close range SMG. If you use it at long distances, you will no doubt miss with a lot of your bullets and your damage will drop significantly.

Comparing weapons between single player and multiplayer is not very useful since those 2 games are balanced very differently. It's true that many of the new weapons do significantly less damage in MP than their counterparts in single player, but those weapons in my opinion are way too powerful in single player but we don't have a live system for changing them.

Eric, you guys really need to remember that the UR drop rate is a lot lower than rare or uncommon. Meaning: Many players will have these weapons at lvl I or a little above for a very, very long time. Thus, you have to either: A. Make a UR exceptional at lower levels or B. Make it exceptional at higher levels BUT severly decrease the level gap. The result is a UR weapon that doesn't gain as much through leveling as non-UR weapons but presents a good weapon even at lower levels.

If I have to get a UR to level X for it to unfold its full potential I'm probably never going to bother with it. I don't have half the UR weapons maxed and I play very regularely. Do you really want me to never use all those weapons, even thogh they may be great at lvl X?

[joker_jack]

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Krazy_Kirby wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

4 URs, 3 are garbage.

Well that is confusing because the venom is maybe not great but it's good and the spitfire is great. The lancer however is another of those stupid overheat weapons. Give me ammo anyday over those types.(yes i play plat and no I don't have ammo problems)

No. no its not

the lancer is the one worthy of being in the ur category

having "infinite" ammo doesn't make up for its low damage.
Also spitfire+jugg =win, even more so once they buff it's damage.

your trolling efforts fail to amuse. lancer in many reguards out performs the harrier. math for the other 3 ur gives us a look at how toilet worthy they are.

[joker_jack]

....

Modifié par joker_jack, 06 mars 2013 - 08:21 .

[Eric Fagnan]

Flambrose wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

According to our balance testing, without reload canceling the BPP does about 23% less sustained damage than the Hurricane on non-armored targets, but about 29% more sustained damage than the Hurricane on armored targets. Like any fast firing weapon, you should put a penetration mod on the weapon if you want good damage against armor. The BPP, like the Hurricane, is balanced around being a close range SMG. If you use it at long distances, you will no doubt miss with a lot of your bullets and your damage will drop significantly.

Comparing weapons between single player and multiplayer is not very useful since those 2 games are balanced very differently. It's true that many of the new weapons do significantly less damage in MP than their counterparts in single player, but those weapons in my opinion are way too powerful in single player but we don't have a live system for changing them.

I haven't done the numbers, but I'm fairly sure Hurricane would win out in reload cancelled DPS even against armor. Hurricane and BPP have the same reload times while BPP has effectively twice the clip size. Hurricane benefits much more from reload cancelling.

It's also more accurate, of course.

The Hurricane does get closer with reload canceling but the BPP should still do about 20% more to armor, with both weapons at level X.