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Reckoning new weapon mechanics


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#1
peddroelm

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Blood Pack Punisher (BPP)
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Hitscan weapon (suffers from armor DR, can be made to penetrate cover, can score headshots)

Regular Shots (Armor=100%, Barrier=100%, Shields=100%)
AP Shots (Armor=250%, Barrier=100%, Shields=100%)

Small damage per hit .. NEEDS some sort of armor weakening//piercing in play not to be useless vs gold armor DR.

During autofire every 8-th shot is an AP round... AP rounds have *5 charged damage multiplier and on top of that do *2.5 damage vs armor ... And they can score headshots ... BPP's niche is landing AP rounds headshots vs bosses ... *5 shot * HS mod * 2.5 armor = tons of damage ...

Its main problem - same rof, same weight, similar in-accuracy issues as the hurricane (BPP might be a bit more accurate)...

128.1 / 47.75 = 2.6827 ..And hurricane does a few times more damage per (regular) shot ...

BPP only comes near hurricane in terms of DPS vs armor if you can land the AP round boss headshots ... Not impossible with some accuracy & stability bonuses

...

Numbers

BPP2 (((47.75 - 38.2) / 9) * (2 - 1)) + 38.2 = 39.261 // BPP II base damage

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Cloak test vs health
marau health: 80.485229
marau health: 80.485229
marau health: 80.485229
marau health: 80.485229
marau health: 80.485229
marau health: 402.426392 // AP round

39.26100 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.8) = 80.48505 //regular shot
39.26100 * 5 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.8) = 402.42525 // AP round

test done wit AIU
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Test vs Geth Prime Head AP ammo I + smg piercing mod

ALL are headshots

+95 ms |damage 3.925781
+1 ms |damage 61.835938
+72 ms |damage 3.925781
+0 ms |damage 61.835938
+73 ms |damage 19.630859
+0 ms |damage 772.953125 // AP round HS
+96 ms |damage 3.925781
+2 ms |damage 61.835938
+90 ms |damage 3.925781

39.26100 * 0.1 = 3.9261 // AP ammo damage un affected by 15% penalty
39.26100 * (1 + 0.275 - 0.15) * 1.4 =61.836075 (0 armor DR)
(39.26100 * 5 * (1 + 0.275 - 0.15) * 1.4 - 50*(1-1))* 2.5 =772.9509375 AP round vs armor HS

Test done with a Juggernout with 6b in fitness (energy transfer, damage penalty)


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M-11 Supressor
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Hitscan weapon (suffers from armor DR, can be made to penetrate cover, can score headshots)

(Armor=100%, Barrier=100%, Shields=100%) 


James Bond gun like corlist affectionately likes to call it ... This gun's thing is its *4 mook base headshot modifier .. Still only *1.4 vs boss units...
Important tehnique - double tap - weapon is accurate and has enough rof for allow quick double headshots (dealing with the shield gate) ..


test numbers

Suppresor X on paladin HS no mods just passives

911.180054
157.1 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.2) * 4 = 911.18 OK

Cloak hs
222294ms | banshee barrier: 495.000000
157.1 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.8 + 0.2) * 1.4 = 494.865 // *1.4 hs mod vs bosses

Maximal mook HS Damage calculation on Tsol without debuffs (marksman magic hs multiplier)
157.1 * (1 + 0.375 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.35) * 4 * (1 + 0.4 + 0.3125) = 2394.4
(will drop most gold mooks with a double tap shot)

Same calculation with 40% damage barrel instead of mook HS pistol mod
157.1 * (1 + 0.375 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.35 + 0.4) * 4 * (1 + 0.3125) = 2165

157.1 base damage at X
37.5% WD passive
30% WD in case of headshots passive
20% WD in case of headshots gear vulnerability VI
35% WD in case of headshots consumable targeting VI
31.25% marksman special HS multiplier
40% HS multiplier from pistol CranialTraumaSystem
or
regular 40% WD from pistol heavy barrel

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Executioner
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Hitscan weapon (suffers from armor DR, can be made to penetrate cover, can score headshots)

(Armor=100%, Barrier=100%, Shields=100%)

High damage single shot (for the most part) low rof high damage pistol ..

Destroyer (magazine mod 80% + passive clip size bonus >= 100% 2 shot clip size)

Advanced (double shot using a fast cast animation power) [reload animation hiding] .


"First, shoot the executioner, then immediately cast a power (e.g. overload/warp/ ballistic blades/ SnapFreeze /PM ...). By the time you finish casting,

there will be another round loaded in the executioner's chamber without any reload animation. Shoot again.
Unlike reload canceling, you don't have to wait for the "click". It's like reload canceling on steroids." reamde

Other single shot weapons that can make great use of this tehnique are Claymore and Widow ..

Numbers
Executioner X 981.1 base ( +25% WD passive +40% WD pistol mod)

shot
marau health: 1618.815063

981.1 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.4) =1618.815

564078ms | ravager armour damage: 1568.814941
24021ms | ravager armour damage: 1503.433594

981.1 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.4) - 50 =1568.815

Did not test the headshot multiplier will assume with the default 2.5 // 1.4 pair (game config files)...

Maximal mook HS Damage calculation on Tsol without debuffs (marksman magic hs multiplier)
981.1 * (1 + 0.375 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.35) * 2.5 * (1 + 0.4 + 0.3125) = 9345.74398437

Same calculation with 40% damage barrel instead of mook HS pistol mod
981.1 * (1 + 0.375 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.35 + 0.4) * 2.5 * (1 + 0.3125) =8450.49023438

Maximal HS damage vs boss
981.1 * (1 + 0.375 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.35 + 0.4) * 1.4 = 3605.5425


157.1 base damage at X
37.5% WD passive
30% WD in case of headshots passive
20% WD in case of headshots gear vulnerability VI
35% WD in case of headshots consumable targeting VI
31.25% marksman special HS multiplier
40% HS multiplier from pistol CranialTraumaSystem
or
regular 40% WD from pistol heavy barrel

Pasic ammo III ammo damage vs shields and barriers
981.1 * 0.15 * 10 = 1471.65

Tsol should be able to 1 HS kill all mooks in game with phasics III rounds... Tsol magic probably not mandatory ...
gold Rocket troopers should die from 1 body shot with phasic III rounds ..

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Lancer
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Hitscan weapon (suffers from armor DR, can be made to penetrate cover, can score headshots)

(Armor=100%, Barrier=100%, Shields=100%)

Will guess same ammo regeneration/overheat mechanics like PPR, CSR, CSMG ... Meaning steeper power curve as it levels up than the regular weapons ..
Amount of ammo regenerated per second dependent on clip size (AR mag mod mandatory)...No charge up modifier ...


Numbers
Lancer VI (HVB)

(((84.8 - 67.9) / 9) * (6 - 1)) + 67.9 =77.29

//triple
190131ms | ravager armour damage: 76.153320
0ms | ravager armour damage: 43.691895
15ms | ravager armour damage: 43.691895

(77.29 * (1 + 0.05)) - (50 * (1 - 0.9)) = 76.1545
(77.29 * 0.6 * (1 + 0.05)) - (50 * (1 - 0.9)) = 43.6927

Test above with collector adept Lancer is not a collector weapon ..

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tests with AIU (25% WD passive ; 25% WD barrel)

13642ms | ravager armour damage: 65.933105
63ms | ravager armour damage: 65.933105

(77.29 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.25)) - 50 =65.935 // *1 vs armor

93ms | banshee barrier: 116.000000
102ms | banshee barrier: 116.000000
7212ms | banshee barrier: 178.000000
83ms | banshee barrier: 178.000000

77.29 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.25) = 115.935 // * 1 vs barrier
77.29 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.8) = 177.767 // cloak bonus

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Spitfire
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Hitscan weapon (suffers from armor DR, can be made to penetrate cover, can score headshots)

(Armor=100%, Barrier=175%, Shields=175%)

Shot ramp up time ... No ramp up multiplier ... Decent vs shields& barriers if you can get the headshots ..

Numbers


Spitfire VII (HVB V ; 25% WD) vs gold ravager
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((67.3-53.8)/9)*(7-1)+53.8 = 62.8 base damage


Ramp up time removed penetrating hits (gold time)
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24957ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000
196ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000
165ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000
140ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000
69ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000
94ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000
76ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000
103ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000
94ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000

TC OFF

24957ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000

// triple hit
196ms | ravager armour damage: 73.500000
0ms | ravager armour damage: 42.100098
19ms | ravager armour damage: 42.100098

Hit vs gold armor
(62.8 * (1 + 0.25)) - (50 * (1 - 0.9)) =73.5
penetrating hit
(62.8 * 0.6 * (1 + 0.25)) - (50 * (1 - 0.9)) =42.1 // HVB penalty


TC ON

124ms | ravager armour damage: 123.740234

//triple hit
60ms | ravager armour damage: 123.740234
0ms | ravager armour damage: 72.244141
17ms | ravager armour damage: 72.244141

(62.8 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.8)) - (50 * (1 - 0.9)) = 123.74
(62.8 * 0.6 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.8)) - (50 * (1 - 0.9)) =72.244

Test vs banshee barrier
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94ms | banshee barrier: 138.000000
98ms | banshee barrier: 138.000000
192ms | banshee barrier: 138.000000
97ms | banshee barrier: 224.000000 //HS

62.8 * (1 + 0.25) * 1.75 = 137.375 // * 1.75 vs barriers
62.8 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.2) * 1.4 * 1.75 = 223.097 // banshee HS


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Adas Anti-Syntetic Rifle
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Projectile weapon .. Lag sensitive . No cover penetration . Small aoe radius . Ignores Armor DR and shieldgate

(Armor=100%, Barrier=200%, Shields=200%)

Bonus vs shields and barriers .. No bonus vs syntetics . No headshot bonuses ..

"Fun fact: Activating TC while firing the Adas causes the remaining shots in the clip to not break TC.
This behaviour is similar to that of the Striker. " Eckswhyzed

Unlike the striker adas has the clip size to profit on TGI...

"Another odd 'feature' of the Adas. If Marksman ends, you don't lose the ROF bonus until you stop firing. So with the extended clip you can always have the Marksman ROF bonus going." Asebstos

turian ghost 900 Shields 3300 with stimpack

30% WD
20% BWD AR
80% Cloak
20% HS WD
25% damage barrel

disruptor I 5%

2025 // 2278 geth hunter

Adas X 161.9

+2605126 ms |shield damage 33.000000
+1 ms |shield damage 502.000000
+4801 ms |shield damage 33.000000
+1 ms |shield damage 502.000000
+1124 ms |shield damage 33.000000
+1 ms |shield damage 502.000000
+939 ms |shield damage 33.000000
+1 ms |shield damage 502.000000
+5164 ms |shield damage 39.000000 // TC on
+1 ms |shield damage 914.000000
+1329 ms |shield damage 39.000000
+0 ms |shield damage 914.000000
+399 ms |shield damage 39.000000
+0 ms |shield damage 914.000000
+447 ms |shield damage 39.000000
+2 ms |shield damage 914.000000


TC off
161.9 * 0.05 * 4 = 32.38 // disruptor ammo damage vs shields
161.9 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.25) * 2 = 501.89 // adas damage vs shields

TC ON
161.9 * 1.2 * 0.05 * 4 = 38.856 // disruptor ammo damage vs shields
161.9 * 1.2 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.25 + 0.8) * 2 = 913.116

Will fire like that until cloak naturally expires ...

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Venom Shogun
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Projectile weapon - fires grenades that explode on proximity (1 uncharged m 3 if charged) AOE damage .. Ignores Armor DR and shieldgate.. Lag sensitive . No cover penetration .

(Armor=100%, Barrier=100%, Shields=100%)


Mechanics intresting enough that it got its own thread 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 06 mars 2013 - 09:48 .


#2
IllusiveManJr

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Thanks peddro.

#3
Ramsutin

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IllusiveManJr wrote...

Thanks peddro.



#4
Raptor2023

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Thanks again peddro, very useful.

Can't wait til everything (read: the Venom) gets figured out.

#5
Eckswhyzed

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Fun fact: Activating TC while firing the Adas causes the remaining shots in the clip to not break TC.

This behaviour is similar to that of the Striker.

#6
peddroelm

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Eckswhyzed wrote...

Fun fact: Activating TC while firing the Adas causes the remaining shots in the clip to not break TC.

This behaviour is similar to that of the Striker.

 

Intresting...
Unlike the striker adas might have the clip size required to profit ...

#7
Deerber

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Thank you ver much as always :)

#8
Catastrophy

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Much appreciated info, especially about Adas, thank you.

#9
The Mysterious Stranger

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Nice. But: Buff (almost) all the things!!!

#10
dima_che

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Thank you !

#11
Ziegrif

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Ayye.
Thank ye very much crazy Krogan scientist!

#12
CAR105 3

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This may seem like a stupid question.
How do you extract the values of damage done to enemies?
Great job.

#13
Dracian

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peddroelmz wrote...

Adas Anti-Syntetic Rifle

[...]
 No bonus vs syntetics
[...]


What the...

biower pls, this is ridiculous.

Modifié par Dracian, 01 mars 2013 - 12:31 .


#14
Ziegrif

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CAR105 3 wrote...

This may seem like a stupid question.
How do you extract the values of damage done to enemies?
Great job.


He's got a program for that but he ain't gona tell us much. might land him in trouble.

#15
jezcrow

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Thank you OP.
This is already going to help me.

#16
peddroelm

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Disturbing preliminary venom finding ....

Charged shots do as much damage as uncharged shots .. Doesn't feel right ..

#17
Sgt Bilko

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So the Adas is Neutral Synthetic then? O.o

Interesting about the Venom though,
Also prone to fire blanks when player is lagging right?

#18
peddroelm

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Sgt Bilko wrote...

Also prone to fire blanks when player is lagging right?


A common trait of all projectile based weapons ...

#19
Sgt Bilko

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peddroelmz wrote...

Sgt Bilko wrote...

Also prone to fire blanks when player is lagging right?


A common trait of all projectile based weapons ...


Explains why i don't use projectile weapons then

#20
Malevolent Fish

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I've been meaning to ask about the Adas:

Since it's come out, I've noticed that the Adas doesn't seem to get any sort of damage increase from Tactical Cloak. I've only tried it with the AIU so far, so I don't know if it's something to do with her cloak or the Adas itself.

Any chance you can shed some light on this one, peddro?

#21
cato potato

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Great work as always peddro. About the BP Executioner, does it have have innate cover piercing like the typhoon, widow etc.? I was sure I could fire through light cover with it but I might well have imagined it

#22
peddroelm

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Malevolent Fish wrote...

I've been meaning to ask about the Adas:

Since it's come out, I've noticed that the Adas doesn't seem to get any sort of damage increase from Tactical Cloak. I've only tried it with the AIU so far, so I don't know if it's something to do with her cloak or the Adas itself.

Any chance you can shed some light on this one, peddro?


Cannot test right now (will test later if need be) ... Try with TGI with cloak specced for AR bonus .. Hold down fire button then activate tactical cloak ..  Test vs shielded//barrierd target .. Damage difference should be clearly observable .... 


cato_84 wrote...

Great work as always peddro. About the BP Executioner, does it have have innate cover piercing like the typhoon, widow etc.? I was sure I could fire through light cover with it but I might well have imagined it


99.9 % sure it (BPP - misread the question) does not ... No occurence of the ravager multihit bug whatsoever with the BPP ..

Did not do enough shots vs ravager with the executioner to be sure ..Cyonan datamined table says YES .. Could easily test this vs ravager /atlas ... If unexpectedly high damage spike for 1 shot without any cover penetrating mods (doube/triple hit) confirmed .. 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 01 mars 2013 - 02:11 .


#23
jezcrow

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cato_84 wrote...

Great work as always peddro. About the BP Executioner, does it have have innate cover piercing like the typhoon, widow etc.? I was sure I could fire through light cover with it but I might well have imagined it


In SP it was 50.  In MP it should be 50 also.

#24
Commander_Rafael

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~I might be missing something very basic, but what's that mentioned magic headshot multiplier the Tsol have? Is it about his higher passive bonus or marksmen?

#25
peddroelm

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Commander_Rafael wrote...

~I might be missing something very basic, but what's that mentioned magic headshot multiplier the Tsol have? Is it about his higher passive bonus or marksmen?


most "heashot bonuses" in game are not really heashot bonuses (passive heashot, targeting VI, vulnerability VI) but regular damage bonuses that apply in case heashot...  

The headshot bonus from marksman is different/special - multiplicative in most cases {not really multiplicative - as it stacks with a certain pistol headshot mod and debuffs} ... Significant impact in final headshot damage .. On top of that is listed at 25% in skill description but value used in game is 31.25 %  .. So magic ..

one of the main factors that make the Turian soldier  so deadly vs mooks in capable hands with weapons such as locus or eagle ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 01 mars 2013 - 02:17 .