347 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Surprisingly, I like the scanning. It's much less of a chore than in ME2, the war assets are somewhat more interesting than minerals, and most of all, I like revisiting places from the first two games.  Only the Reaper attacks are annoying, they'd usually force me to revisit some systems several times, and I haven't memorized the resource locations yet, as I have for ME1. So I unabashedly use a scanning guide. I really regret lacking the patience to read all the planet descriptions. I'm a lore fanatic. I'd pay for a book with all the stuff I'm too impatient to read while playing.

Personally i find them far more of a chore and unlike ME2 there is no reward of finding a mission or using the resources to fund research. If war assets had have actually been a functional resource or there was some visible pay off to them it might be different.  The completionist in me is the only reason i trudge through them.

[jumpingkaede]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Such a discovery never lands on a dusty shelf. It's absurd. That thing or anything prothean related was found 30 years ago and was simply forgotten until the Reapers arrive? I'll never buy it. 

Just to offer an alternative on this note, during the game it was impressed upon me (subjectively) that the Mars cache simply contained too much information and, as a result, the researchers simply never got to this.  Or, alternatively, that the information was difficult to find unless you knew what you were looking for.

Basically: would you be able to find the book on Reapers if you didn't know to use the search term "Reaper"?  Liara does therefore she finds the information about "Reapers" easily.

...

Now, whether such an explanation is plausible given the significance of the Mars cache (i.e. library) and the likelihood that it would have been thoroughly and exhaustively mined of all data is another discussion, as is whether or not the concept of the Mars "library" is consistent with ME1.  


Re: scanning.  Personally, I found it okay.  But I didn't dislike the ME2 one either.

The ME3 "reaper" gameplay mechanic was awful though.  It served no real purpose other than to annoy and frustrate the gamer.  It wasn't a real threat since reapers are slow and easily avoided.  And it didn't have any gravitas since you could just exit the system and re-enter it immediately afterward -- and that is the intended gameplay mechanic, not a gameplay "hack" or exploit.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 01 mars 2013 - 07:30 .

[Obadiah]

Also, I thought the Crucible plans were in a secondary newly and recently discovered cache.

[jumpingkaede]

Obadiah wrote...

Also, I thought the Crucible plans were in a secondary newly and recently discovered cache.

It's possible, though I'm not sure what that would even mean.  Are there multiple caches?  How deep does this thing go? 

[3DandBeyond]

Well, OP, good and thoughtful post. The issue here is though that you intentionally played only one version of Shepard so when you hit Mars you seemed to be saying you had decent enough dialogue with, say Liara, but not with TIM. Ok my experience was the opposite. My dialogue with Liara ends up being rather stupid-Liara wants to know why Shepard is there, uh do the words "possible weapon to defeat the reapers" mean nothing to you, Liara? And then, why is Cerberus there? Ok, yelling at the screen did nothing to fix this for me. My issues with TIM were more along the lines of him always being everywhere right away as soon as Shepard is and yet, I do agree with you that there should have been another option to all of this.

The point being that if Shepard gave TIM the base, that was something that implied a form of trust in what TIM would do or a belief in what he wanted to do. If Shepard destroyed the base, that was because the trust didn't exist. This is not reflected in ME3 at all. TIM is the anti-hero, the speed bump that keeps getting in the way and speed bumps usually are more witless and brainless that TIM was previously.

[AlanC9]

wright1978 wrote...

Personally i find them far more of a chore and unlike ME2 there is no reward of finding a mission or using the resources to fund research. If war assets had have actually been a functional resource or there was some visible pay off to them it might be different.  The completionist in me is the only reason i trudge through them.

Wait a second..... they're not functional? What kind of ending do you get if you don't do any scanning? I've never run the numbers for that.

Although I suppose it depends on what sort of ending the player wants. If you're doing Destroy and don't care about the breath clip, you don't need much EMS.

Modifié par AlanC9, 01 mars 2013 - 07:40 .

[AlanC9]

Obadiah wrote...

Also, I thought the Crucible plans were in a secondary newly and recently discovered cache.

This is mentioned a couple of times, and appeared in one of those pre-release news clips too.

[WarGriffin]

The Earth prolouge should have been set up, 30 minutes to and hour before the Reapers showed up

but like most 80's action movies -I keep coming back to this point don't i?- They want to skip the back story and have an action pack opening!


What gets me about the prolouge is that the implication that Shepard has been there for 6 months... Shepard sitting on thier ass for Six months after Harby said point blank we're here doesn't jello

The fact the alliance just happens to be holding the hearing on the same day as the Reaper attack is as you said Drama for the sake of Drama and keeping the odds in the Reapers favor.

Then again... ME3 hammers you over the head with one of the Crutches of BW's writing

Protagonist centered Morality.

Shepard is right, wiser and mroe qualified then anybody in the room... cause They're the Protagonist, not cause they have a point. and yes The Shepard only gets away with half the crap they pull cause thier the lead is the most blantant in this game.

[Ieldra]

3DandBeyond wrote...
The point being that if Shepard gave TIM the base, that was something that implied a form of trust in what TIM would do or a belief in what he wanted to do. If Shepard destroyed the base, that was because the trust didn't exist. This is not reflected in ME3 at all. TIM is the anti-hero, the speed bump that keeps getting in the way and speed bumps usually are more witless and brainless that TIM was previously.

Indeed. I can live with the Council decision not having big consequences apart from war assets, because in the end it really doesn't matter who sits on the Council, but the CB decision should've resulted in a branched storyline. I think someone at Bioware probably came up with that idea as well, since it's rather obvious, but resource constraints prevented its realization. That doesn't make it better, though.

[Ieldra]

Added to the OP:

*Priority:Palaven
*Interlude:EDI

[Uncle Jo]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Just to offer an alternative on this note, during the game it was impressed upon me (subjectively) that the Mars cache simply contained too much information and, as a result, the researchers simply never got to this.  Or, alternatively, that the information was difficult to find unless you knew what you were looking for.

Basically: would you be able to find the book on Reapers if you didn't know to use the search term "Reaper"?  Liara does therefore she finds the information about "Reapers" easily.

*snipped*

Cop-out.

I swear, I'd have had less difficulties with the Crucible if it was discovered after the first Citadel events, i.e. in ME2. That timing, no. Just no.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 01 mars 2013 - 07:46 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Indeed. I can live with the Council decision not having big consequences apart from war assets, because in the end it really doesn't matter who sits on the Council, but the CB decision should've resulted in a branched storyline. I think someone at Bioware probably came up with that idea as well, since it's rather obvious, but resource constraints prevented its realization. That doesn't make it better, though.

I would like to add the Human Councilor decision should've also branched the story a bit. And it's a shame that resource limitations is what probably shot ME3 in the foot.

Sigh

[CronoDragoon]

I can only say that while I appreciate the reasons why someone might expect the Collector Base decision to be important, I did not and say it more as a moral statement than a consequential one.

[CronoDragoon]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

I would like to add the Human Councilor decision should've also branched the story a bit. And it's a shame that resource limitations is what probably shot ME3 in the foot.

Sigh

Resource limitation is one way to look at it, although I think the heart of the matter is that they simply planned too big over the span of ME1 and ME2 to integrate everything appropriately with reasonable resources (ME2 and 3 had similar dev cycles, and 3 was granted months of extra time).

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 01 mars 2013 - 07:51 .

[jumpingkaede]

Uncle Jo wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

Just to offer an alternative on this note, during the game it was impressed upon me (subjectively) that the Mars cache simply contained too much information and, as a result, the researchers simply never got to this.  Or, alternatively, that the information was difficult to find unless you knew what you were looking for.

Basically: would you be able to find the book on Reapers if you didn't know to use the search term "Reaper"?  Liara does therefore she finds the information about "Reapers" easily.

*snipped*

Cop-out.

I swear, I'd have had less difficulties with the Crucible if it was discovered after the first Citadel events, i.e. in ME2. That timing, no. Just no.

I agree that it is a cop out.  I'm just saying that this specific cop out is the one I interpreted the game taking.

Ieldra2 wrote...

Added to the OP:

*Priority:Palaven
*Interlude:EDI

Agreed generally with your impressions so far.  The amount of... gratuitous sexualization in ME3 bordered on the ludicrious.  How many times during conversations has the camera taken an angle which only served to forcus on Miranda's butt?  And I LIKE Miranda but even that became uncomfortable after awhile.  It felt like the game trying to foce me to like her for her butt as opposed to her character (as developed in ME2).

[3DandBeyond]

Ieldra2 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
The point being that if Shepard gave TIM the base, that was something that implied a form of trust in what TIM would do or a belief in what he wanted to do. If Shepard destroyed the base, that was because the trust didn't exist. This is not reflected in ME3 at all. TIM is the anti-hero, the speed bump that keeps getting in the way and speed bumps usually are more witless and brainless that TIM was previously.

Indeed. I can live with the Council decision not having big consequences apart from war assets, because in the end it really doesn't matter who sits on the Council, but the CB decision should've resulted in a branched storyline. I think someone at Bioware probably came up with that idea as well, since it's rather obvious, but resource constraints prevented its realization. That doesn't make it better, though.

Yes as I recall ME2 had loading screens that talked about your decisions having a big impact on the next game.  What I'd envisioned was even that Cerberus would not have the data from the base, but the Alliance and the other races all would have it and would use it to prepare for the reapers (more).  If Shepard gave the data and the base to TIM Cerberus might even have been the "ruling" entity, stronger and so on. 

At the very least, not giving it to him should have changed certain outcomes or made it easier to fight back against Cerberus during the coup, which could have left more assets available elsewhere for things.  Or even weakened preparedness in other areas.  You know, since Cerberus was easily repelled from the Citadel, it could be possible that people go back to their malaise and don't prepare as much for the reapers as they should.  This could have been a way to equalize the impact.  A stronger Cerberus weakens numbers, but strengthens resolve in other areas.  A weaker Cerberus leaves numbers intact, but weakens resolve or the understanding and preparation for the next threat.

[Ticonderoga117]

CronoDragoon wrote...
Resource limitation is one way to look at it, although I think the heart of the matter is that they simply planned too big over the span of ME1 and ME2 to integrate everything appropriately with reasonable resources (ME2 and 3 had similar dev cycles, and 3 was granted months of extra time).

Then they need to learn how to manage and plan better. Having this happen again will not do them any good.

[Norwood06]

Thoroughly enjoyable read, OP. Will be waiting for your next update.

Your points on Shep's railroaded posture towards cerberus & dialogue wheel issues (I am also a habitual reloader) are good ones. And I'm glad I wasn't the only one annoyed to find Liara in the XO's room.

Best is the tone of the review. Objectively neutral, makes astute observations. Good stuff.

[CronoDragoon]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
Then they need to learn how to manage and plan better. Having this happen again will not do them any good.

Well, yeah. But also consider that no game company ever attempted something as ambitious as this before. I'd say for the first time around they didn't do too badly. You can only learn by doing, after all.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 01 mars 2013 - 08:43 .

[Ticonderoga117]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Well, yeah. But also consider that no game company ever attempted something as ambitious as this before. I'd say for the first time around they didn't do too badly. You can only learn by doing, after all.

From what I've seen of the Witcher 2, I'd say they did it better. However, it's hard to give them praise since they didn't even try to handwave the corners they cut. It just happens.

[Ieldra]

Indy_S wrote...
I want to argue the visuals of the prologue. They're terrible. So many animation skips. And did you look at the civilians running away on the ground? Then there's the awesome fighters that just fly in circles without shooting anything, often phasing through solid objects that were planned to be in their path. Seriously, they fly through buildings and Reapers and nobody thought to check that?

Odd. I never noticed this.

Then there's the way the Cannibals spawn at the end of the level. They're meteors, for some reason. Then, without a pause upon impact, they're on their feet and shooting at you. Even the Orks don't enter battle this stupidly.

This is the standard way Reaper minions spawn in outdoors levels throughout the game. I could post an extra rant about the standard Bioware enemy wave spawn mechanic but at least it's marginally better in ME3 than in DA2.

[txgoldrush]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Well, yeah. But also consider that no game company ever attempted something as ambitious as this before. I'd say for the first time around they didn't do too badly. You can only learn by doing, after all.

From what I've seen of the Witcher 2, I'd say they did it better. However, it's hard to give them praise since they didn't even try to handwave the corners they cut. It just happens.

Where was Shani in TW2? I romanced her in TW1. I find TW2 an overrated game when people who hate Bioware use it to bash ME3. Hell, it also had a fail ending that they had to fix.

And from the CDP comments TW3 save import will be LESS ambitious than ME3.

Bioware owned CDP in save import.

[txgoldrush]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...
I want to argue the visuals of the prologue. They're terrible. So many animation skips. And did you look at the civilians running away on the ground? Then there's the awesome fighters that just fly in circles without shooting anything, often phasing through solid objects that were planned to be in their path. Seriously, they fly through buildings and Reapers and nobody thought to check that?

Odd. I never noticed this.

Then there's the way the Cannibals spawn at the end of the level. They're meteors, for some reason. Then, without a pause upon impact, they're on their feet and shooting at you. Even the Orks don't enter battle this stupidly.

This is the standard way Reaper minions spawn in outdoors levels throughout the game. I could post an extra rant about the standard Bioware enemy wave spawn mechanic but at least it's marginally better in ME3 than in DA2.

Bioware was never great at the techinical side of things.

And really the 360 version of ME1 is more rushed than ME3 anyway.

[Ticonderoga117]

txgoldrush wrote...
Where was Shani in TW2? I romanced her in TW1. I find TW2 an overrated game when people who hate Bioware use it to bash ME3. Hell, it also had a fail ending that they had to fix.

And from the CDP comments TW3 save import will be LESS ambitious than ME3.

Bioware owned CDP in save import.

And what did BioWare do with the save imports?

Nothing!

Udina always councilor.
TIM always gets the tech.