213 réponses à ce sujet

[Quinary_Dunkage]

Deerber wrote...

Lol. With all due respect, I don't need to read Mega's guide. I'm perfectly aware of what he can and cannot do. If I may though, you seem not to be aware of what a Drell Adept can do... 

Still, if you haven't it's a good read. And if you haven't you can't really know if you know for sure that you have all of his capabilities down. Even for professionals, whatever they're doing, most would agree that passing up a learning opportunity is a hinderance when trying to hone a skill. An outside perspective is always a benefit.

And I am indeed aware of what the drell adept can do. I read many outside perspectives on the subject;)

Modifié par LC714, 01 mars 2013 - 08:16 .

[lightswitch]

LC714 wrote...

Deerber wrote...

LC714 wrote...

He can do as much damage to a spawn as the drell adept without having to use grenades. Not saying there aren't glitches that need to be ironed out, but I wouldn't say poorly implemented. I learned how to use him a day ago, and I've been dominating gold lobbys ever since.

Lolno. No way. Not even close. Not even a quarter of what a Drell Adept can do. A drell Adept can completely wipe a wave 9 reapers gold spawn in roughly 10 seconds. No way in hell the collector can do that.

Have you read megabeasts guide? He can do just as many BEs in a spawn, it'll just take is a few seconds longer to cast the seekers. If anything survived detonating dark sphere, that is.

Spike damage might be similar, I think the Drell Adept is probably still on top, but that's not the point. Over the course of an entire game, or even just a ten second span as in Deerbers example, the DA can prime and detonate about 30 (hyperbole, I don't know the actual number but it's a lot) times more combos the CA could even hope to do.

This of course ignores that you're lucky to even get that slow-as-molasses sphere into the middle of spawn while it's still bunched up. On a good team the spawn will be half dead before the sphere is even in position, but even in a PUG you pretty much need to be right on top of the spawn to get it in place before the enemy spreads out. Which of course which means you don't dare use ascension mode (when you need it most), and you're also higly likely to be killed by small arms fire while you're exposed during the DS launch animation. You can't even use right hand advantage because the clipping on the DS is super sensitive and it gets snagged on corners all the time.

Give me a good CC power and a good weapon and I can wipe spawns before the Collector Adept can say 'assuming direct control.' CA needs serious work in order to reach his potential.

Modifié par lightswitch, 01 mars 2013 - 08:15 .

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Deerber wrote...

He's good. Not great... Good. Could be very good (although not even close to the Drell) if it didn't have those oh-so-long animations...

I love the animations. I'd rather BW didn't remove them, because they're part of what makes him my favorite kit. They should make his Asecsion stance a little more powerful to make up for the long animation/immense increase in damage taken. Iirc, the Seeker Swarm animation can be canceled early by dodging.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

lightswitch wrote...

Spike damage might be similar, I think the Drell Adept is probably still on top, but that's not the point. Over the course of an entire game, or even just a ten second span as in Deerbers example, the DA can prime and detonate about 30 (hyperbole, I don't know the actual number but it's a lot) times more combos the CA could even hope to do.

This of course ignores that you're lucky to even get that slow-as-molasses sphere into the middle of spawn while it's still bunched up. On a good team the spawn will be half dead before the sphere is even in position, but even in a PUG you pretty much need to be right on top of the spawn to get it in place before the enemy spreads out. Which of course which means you don't dare use ascension mode (when you need it most), and you're also higly likely to be killed by small arms fire while you're exposed during the DS launch animation. You can't even use right hand advantage because the clipping on the DS is super sensitive and it gets snagged on corners all the time.

Give me a good CC power and a good weapon and I can wipe spawns before the Collector Adept can say 'assuming direct control.' CA needs serious work in order to reach his potential.

The Collector Adept's been out less than a week...

[Quinary_Dunkage]

lightswitch wrote...

This of course ignores that you're lucky to even get that slow-as-molasses sphere into the middle of spawn while it's still bunched up. On a good team the spawn will be half dead before the sphere is even in position, but even in a PUG you pretty much need to be right on top of the spawn to get it in place before the enemy spreads out. Which of course which means you don't dare use ascension mode (when you need it most), and you're also higly likely to be killed by small arms fire while you're exposed during the DS launch animation. You can't even use right hand advantage because the clipping on the DS is super sensitive and it gets snagged on corners all the time.

Perhaps, but in game it seems to me that the 9 meter radius very effectively mitigates the slow travel time.
And you can move during the casting animation, so you can start it behind soft cover, slide out just in time to fire, the get back in cover.

[lightswitch]

If anyone is on PC and would like to demonstrate to me in person how the Collector Adept is an 'amazing' kit, please, friend me on Origin and we'll play a game. Because I would like to see it. Origin ID is lightswitch37.

[stinekandts]

lightswitch wrote...

WOOLFGANG392 wrote...

He's amazing as is, just play as host if your having a problem with him, or just try a new build because he is too great a character to not use.

He's passable and interesting as is, but he doesn't even approach the power of the Fury, Drell Adept, Valkyrie, GI, TGI, AIU, DI,  Bat sol, Asari vanguard, Drellguard, I could keep going, there's a lot of kits that are much better. Oh, the Human Adept too.

It's the last Adept they're ever going to make for ME3 MP. They should make it a great one that compensates for all the power creep.

I think you are just better with those classes you listed. It's okay if you can't get the hang of the Awakened Collector. You said it best in your title PRACTICE.

[upinya slayin]

i can't figure him out really. he seems more squishy then his health/shields would imply. His BEs don't get a damage modifyer. Dark Spehre is sketchy when trying to explode. and his cooldowns are long. I can't find a build i like and i've tried liek 4. My fav so far would be the no dark sphere build

[Deerber]

LC714 wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Lol. With all due respect, I don't need to read Mega's guide. I'm perfectly aware of what he can and cannot do. If I may though, you seem not to be aware of what a Drell Adept can do... 

Still, if you haven't it's a good read. And if you haven't you can't really know if you know for sure that you have all of his capabilities down. Even for professionals, whatever they're doing, most would agree that passing up a learning opportunity is a hinderance when trying to hone a skill An outside perspective is always a benefit.

And I am indeed aware of what the drell adept can do. I read many outside perspectives on the subject;)

Haha yeah, I see your point. I actually happen to have already skimmed through it and found out there was nothing I was not aware of 

Ok so, let's give this a little bit more though, shall we? Say you're running up to a spawn in a later wave of reapers glacier gold - ideal thing for both characters.

Now, let's compute the damage they can do in roughly 10 seconds.
I will also assume that they spec in the best possible way and that they have the best possible consumables on.
My calculations will also be rough and not extremely accurate because, as you will see, the difference is so gigantic that there's no need for accuracy.

Collector: DS detonation (4-5k top) (which actually can only hit 3 enemies, and that's already a huge hindrance, but let's go on) + 4 BEs from the swarms (4X1687 on armor = 6600), which makes up, considering also some damage from the swarms themselves, to something like 12-13k damage. Being very optimistic. Which means that you won't even manage to kill the Brutes, let alone the Banshees.

Now, the Drell. Let's be pessimistic and say you only manage to get 1 BE per reave + clusters cycle. In 10 seconds you can manage to do 3 cycles of reave + 2 clusters/cycle. Reave (roughly 1k each for the first 2 applications, the last doesn't have time to apply the DoT in our example: 2k), clusters (5k each, 5X6=30k), 3 BEs (3X1687 on armor = 5000). Total damage amounts to 37k. And that's being pessimistic. And that's also accounting for armor, because the clusters do a hell of a lot more damage against barriers. So, Banshees take even more than that. Results, the entire spawn is wiped off the map in less than 10 seconds.


From a pure damage point of view, the Collector will never ever ever be able to even stand close to a Drell Adept. But that's not the point, cause he might be good and still not be close to the Drell. The point is that he's not even that good, in my opinion (and Lightswitch's), because mainly of his long animation and cooldowns, maybe for something else too.

Modifié par Deerber, 01 mars 2013 - 08:29 .

[Bzilla]

What I like to do with the little guy is:

Engage SS > Release the DS > throw out a DC > Detonate DC with SS > Detonate DS > Use remaining two DS orbs to hit whatever is primed

Don't have any numbers or facts on how deadly this is compared to other adepts, but I do know I have a blasty blast with it. I haven't had a chance to play a game with any other biotics but i'd imagine it would be pretty fun.

[sareth_65536]

I wish they decreased cooldowns, even AA with her strong BEs can sometimes kill a mook spawn faster
But collector is still good and fun to play when you take a strong weapon like GPS. Thanks to shotgun ULM, it is quite possible

Modifié par sareth_65536, 01 mars 2013 - 08:37 .

[oXTheReverendXo]

Well, I won't say he's better than the Drell Adept. But, IMHO, the Drell is the king of all Adepts, so I wouldn't expect the CA to be better.

I will say I think the CA is a little better than he's getting credit for in this thread. It took me a couple tries to find a build I really like for him, but once I did I started wreaking havoc. I think he just takes a little time to learn and that he's got enough diversity in his powers for one to find a build that fits their own playstyle. I also think that more highly skilled players will use him more effectively, due to the way all of his cooldowns interact.

[Zeromarro4]

I disagree with you most emphatically as to the collector's useful nature and strength. The abilities are quite useful. Up to 40% damage reduction from seeker swarms coupled with decent mobility makes him a relatively survivable class with potential for crowd control, via a properly leveled dark sphere. Dark channel is a well rounded power and little is to be said against it. One can detonate a large number of biotic explosions for moderate damage and crowd control after usage of the powers throu the seeker swarms. Assention mode is useful situationally but gives no penalty for not using it.

your comparison of the drell adept is commendable, it is a DECENT adept but no great like the Justicar or original asari adept. The playstyle and tactics require adaptation from the norm but the learning curve is hardly so steep for a veteran player.

[Papa5murf]

I'm not gonna argue with the people saying he's nowhere near as good as the Drell Adept, coz i simply SUCK with the Drell Adept

What i will say, is that i've been experimenting with the Collector Adept for the past few days, locked down a final build with him using CSMG VII that i was happy with, and spent all yesterday rocking Gold Pugs with it. I was getting higher scores with him than with my TGI + Harrier VIII !
I went half fitness and loaded the rest of the points into DS, DC and SS, but use the SS for damage reduction. He shreds mooks with CSMG , and i never have to go near a damn ammo crate
I'm not saying he is a great build for everyone, but i AM saying he is a great build for ME

[valium]

Not every kit can be utterly OP, sometimes some classes have to be powerful without being so good it is boring to play them.

Modifié par valium, 01 mars 2013 - 09:03 .

[ToLazy4Name]

He's a great character, and easily a top tier Adept.

Never played him off host, so I can't comment on that, but on host, he's amazing.

[heybigmoney]

He's a cross between the drell adept/huntress/batsol. He'll never be able to spawn nuke like the drell can, but his aoe is still very effective. What he can do that no other adept can, is stack ridiculous dot dmg on bosses. With max DC plus sphere you are doing well over 1k+ dmg per second against boss armor. Combine this with a good weapon with warp ammo, he'll melt bosses like no other aoe class can.

Long story short, max out sphere and dark channel. If you focus on only aoe and biotic detonations, you've got a 2nd rate spawn nuker to the drell adept.

[Wookie_Smuggler]

You're doing it wrong

[Papa5murf]

ToLazy4Name wrote...

He's a great character, and easily a top tier Adept.

Never played him off host, so I can't comment on that, but on host, he's amazing.

I ONLY play Off Host, and still think he's awesome. Perfectly viable to play Collector Adept without being host as long as you have a half decent connection. Yeah there have been few times where i fired a DS or SS and nothing happened, but it doesn't happen enough to put me off.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Yeah, I think "good, not great" sums it up.  The three things that really need changing are:
1)  Reduce animation times
2) Reduce the Swarm cooldown
3) Improve Ascension mode.  Really, why woud I want to take 40% more damage in exchange for 25% base damage.  The adept is already squishy and I have no death wish.    Now, if you gave him Edibot's self resurrection ability I guess that might be a deal I'd go for.....

4)  (Bonus) Give Swarm a +BE.  Ok make it only a +25%BE.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 mars 2013 - 09:33 .

[lightswitch]

ToLazy4Name wrote...

He's a great character, and easily a top tier Adept.

Disagree...strongly. He's not even close to the top tier adepts, the Drell and the Fury. The Slasher and probably the Human Adept are also better than the CA. So that's two tiers that outclass this kit. He's somewhere in the third tier or lower.

On a team with a well played top tier kit, even in the hands of a veteran player the CA would be forced to resort to spamming Dark Channel at everything and shooting his gun.

Modifié par lightswitch, 01 mars 2013 - 09:42 .

[lightswitch]

FWIW, I just changed my build (again) and played another game with him. Managed to get the [cast DS-SS cancel-DC cancel] chain down pretty well. Doesn't change anything, I still think he's a clunky kit that is easily bested by any weapons platform with a good CC. TSent crushes this guy in terms of killing potential.

Modifié par lightswitch, 01 mars 2013 - 09:43 .

[robarcool]

Mandolin wrote...

Half the cooldown on SS and he would be much more enjoyable to play.

You can cancel the coodown on SS by using DC right when you are casting swarms around you. Then you get the cooldown of DC AND seeker swarms around you along with a free DC cast.

[xtorma]

Sorry to hear this, I was looking foreward to playing this guy for a few games.

[robarcool]

upinya slayin wrote...

i can't figure him out really. he seems more squishy then his health/shields would imply. His BEs don't get a damage modifyer. Dark Spehre is sketchy when trying to explode. and his cooldowns are long. I can't find a build i like and i've tried liek 4. My fav so far would be the no dark sphere build