213 réponses à ce sujet

[robarcool]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

He's an amazing character.
Best mook killing adept.

If one of those Dark Channel-Seeker Swarm combos would actually kill anything tougher than a Cannibal with one BE, I would agree with you.

Also, Fury says hello.

Dark sphere kills centurions in one detonation.
Anything left standing is primed for BE with seeker swarms.
You can also negate seekers CD with DS detonation.

Also Collector Adept says hello, nice to meet you.

Collector Adepts don't speak. They burn with the fire of vengeance within and crush their enemies without ever uttering a word.

[billy the squid]

lightswitch wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

He's a great character, and easily a top tier Adept.

Disagree...strongly. He's not even close to the top tier adepts, the Drell and the Fury. The Slasher and probably the Human Adept are also better than the CA. So that's two tiers that outclass this kit. He's somewhere in the third tier or lower.

On a team with a well played top tier kit, even in the hands of a veteran player the CA would be forced to resort to spamming Dark Channel at everything and shooting his gun.

No. He has greater staying power than a Human Adept, and the Bararian slasher. 40% DR and 937 shileds with only 3 ranks in fitness is tough which ever way you cut it. He's also far tougher than the Fury, but he isn't a glass cannon build. Neither is he limited by grenades like the drell if you're on a team with frequent grenade and harrier users.

Dark sphere is incredibly powerful and will prime anything in it's path inflictilng DoT allowing you to use seeker swarms to detonate each target if you wish. In confined maps or bunched enemies in cover it's best.

Activate SS then use Dark Sphere, but before you hit a target and detonate it, fire Dark channel and while still in the Dark channel cooldown detonate the sphere the recharge time seems to be unaffected by the sphere so you can happily spam the sphere every 3 seconds or so. Or you can use Dark channel, and then detonate with seeker swarms.

I believe the radius evolution for dark matter implosion is also bugged, so it doesn't reduce the detonation radius. I have to check into this more.

In effect. 
Drell/ Fury (dependent of whether you want a glass cannon)
Collector Adept
Human Adept/ Batarian. (human adept is better at controlling the battlefield)

One thing that will hurt the Collector is lag in when firing and detonating Dark sphere, this can be a real frustration if you get a bad game. Acension mode, I haven't quite worked out how to get the best out of it. I just haven't used it.

I'm currently using. 6/6/6/5/3

Modifié par billy the squid, 01 mars 2013 - 10:07 .

[billy the squid]

lightswitch wrote...

FWIW, I just changed my build (again) and played another game with him. Managed to get the [cast DS-SS cancel-DC cancel] chain down pretty well. Doesn't change anything, I still think he's a clunky kit that is easily bested by any weapons platform with a good CC. TSent crushes this guy in terms of killing potential.

Weapons platforms crush any Adept well played. Tech amo and overload buries your primer and a Tsent with a Harrier, Claymore etc. will take a Brute out in a couple of seconds before you can even get more than one biotic explosion off. T Sent. crushes almost every Adept. I've only seen the Drell able to keep up with spawn nuking and the Fury when played by a very good player or they end up dead ASAP.

Modifié par billy the squid, 01 mars 2013 - 10:07 .

[Deerber]

billy the squid wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

He's a great character, and easily a top tier Adept.

Disagree...strongly. He's not even close to the top tier adepts, the Drell and the Fury. The Slasher and probably the Human Adept are also better than the CA. So that's two tiers that outclass this kit. He's somewhere in the third tier or lower.

On a team with a well played top tier kit, even in the hands of a veteran player the CA would be forced to resort to spamming Dark Channel at everything and shooting his gun.

No. He has greater staying power than a Human Adept, and the Bararian slasher. 40% DR and 937 shileds with only 3 ranks in fitness is tough which ever way you cut it. He's also far tougher than the Fury, but he isn't a glass cannon build. Neither is he limited by grenades like the drell if you're on a team with frequent grenade and harrier users.

Dark sphere is incredibly powerful and will prime anything in it's path inflictilng DoT allowing you to use seeker swarms to detonate each target if you wish. In confined maps or bunched enemies in cover it's best.

Activate SS then use Dark Sphere, but before you hit a target and detonate it, fire Dark channel and while still in the Dark channel cooldown detonate the sphere the recharge time seems to be unaffected by the sphere so you can happily spam the sphere every 3 seconds or so. Or you can use Dark channel, and then detonate with seeker swarms.

I believe the radius evolution for dark matter implosion is also bugged, so it doesn't reduce the detonation radius. I have to check into this more.

In effect. 
Drell/ Fury (dependent of whether you want a glass cannon)
Collector Adept
Human Adept/ Batarian. (human adept is better at controlling the battlefield)

One thing that will hurt the Collector is lag in when firing and detonating Dark sphere, this can be really frustration if you get a bad game. Acension mode, I haven't quite worked out how to get the best out of it. I just haven't used it.

I'm currently using. 6/6/6/5/3

The Batarian is only slightly inferior to the Drell. One of the best kits in the entire game. He can kill a brute in less than 1.5 seconds. I don't see the collector doing that. I really, really don't.

[UnknownMercenary]

Long cooldowns or long animations... he shouldn't have both.

[lightswitch]

billy the squid wrote...

No. He has greater staying power than a Human Adept, and the Bararian slasher. 40% DR and 937 shileds with only 3 ranks in fitness is tough which ever way you cut it. He's also far tougher than the Fury, but he isn't a glass cannon build. Neither is he limited by grenades like the drell if you're on a team with frequent grenade and harrier users.

Well if we're determining a kits quality based on fitness now than the Batslasher clearly has the CA outdone.

I understand all the combos, I really do. I understand the cooldown canceling, the animation cancels. They're all well and good.

None of it changes the fact this guy has slow animations, slow cooldowns, slow travel times, and problems off host. It's a mediocre kit and I really think you're all still buying into the theory of it rather than the reality. Or maybe you're all playing it on silver, I don't know, what I do know is the CA is not an efficient killer.

[Aetika]

I actually find him pretty good. Slower but powerfull. Just need to stay out of close combat. He goes down quickly and being in the middle of horde with powers on cooldown is death sentence. I pack Paladin X and just shoot while waiting on my powers. The DS bug is indeed annoying, it happened to me few times today. But I am having great fun with him.

[billy the squid]

Deerber wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

He's a great character, and easily a top tier Adept.

Disagree...strongly. He's not even close to the top tier adepts, the Drell and the Fury. The Slasher and probably the Human Adept are also better than the CA. So that's two tiers that outclass this kit. He's somewhere in the third tier or lower.

On a team with a well played top tier kit, even in the hands of a veteran player the CA would be forced to resort to spamming Dark Channel at everything and shooting his gun.

No. He has greater staying power than a Human Adept, and the Bararian slasher. 40% DR and 937 shileds with only 3 ranks in fitness is tough which ever way you cut it. He's also far tougher than the Fury, but he isn't a glass cannon build. Neither is he limited by grenades like the drell if you're on a team with frequent grenade and harrier users.

Dark sphere is incredibly powerful and will prime anything in it's path inflictilng DoT allowing you to use seeker swarms to detonate each target if you wish. In confined maps or bunched enemies in cover it's best.

Activate SS then use Dark Sphere, but before you hit a target and detonate it, fire Dark channel and while still in the Dark channel cooldown detonate the sphere the recharge time seems to be unaffected by the sphere so you can happily spam the sphere every 3 seconds or so. Or you can use Dark channel, and then detonate with seeker swarms.

I believe the radius evolution for dark matter implosion is also bugged, so it doesn't reduce the detonation radius. I have to check into this more.

In effect. 
Drell/ Fury (dependent of whether you want a glass cannon)
Collector Adept
Human Adept/ Batarian. (human adept is better at controlling the battlefield)

One thing that will hurt the Collector is lag in when firing and detonating Dark sphere, this can be really frustration if you get a bad game. Acension mode, I haven't quite worked out how to get the best out of it. I just haven't used it.

I'm currently using. 6/6/6/5/3

The Batarian is only slightly inferior to the Drell. One of the best kits in the entire game. He can kill a brute in less than 1.5 seconds. I don't see the collector doing that. I really, really don't.

Batarian is good, but I can never get used to the lack of maneuverability. I always go for the Drell adept or the Fury. The Batarian I have endless trouble getting caught in a tight spot. Collector has greater staying power with the DR of seeker swarms, 937 shields and a dodge.

I don't use the seekers in close I keep them activated for the 40% DR and then fire Dark sphere in close, to generate 600 damage a second before flinging out dark channel and detonating DS.

Really you're applying the context of spawn nuking to a character who's purpose is to debuff and be able to prime multiple targets for biotic detonations in a single cast, hence the 4 seekers. Yes, I can almost knock out a Banshee's barrier with a direct DS implosion, ehich is nice, but that's not what it's key purpose is for.

[Papa5murf]

lightswitch wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

No. He has greater staying power than a Human Adept, and the Bararian slasher. 40% DR and 937 shileds with only 3 ranks in fitness is tough which ever way you cut it. He's also far tougher than the Fury, but he isn't a glass cannon build. Neither is he limited by grenades like the drell if you're on a team with frequent grenade and harrier users.

Well if we're determining a kits quality based on fitness now than the Batslasher clearly has the CA outdone.

I understand all the combos, I really do. I understand the cooldown canceling, the animation cancels. They're all well and good.

None of it changes the fact this guy has slow animations, slow cooldowns, slow travel times, and problems off host. It's a mediocre kit and I really think you're all still buying into the theory of it rather than the reality. Or maybe you're all playing it on silver, I don't know, what I do know is the CA is not an efficient killer.

I ONLY Play Gold Pugs, and ONLY Off Host, and i am loving the Collector Adept. Maybe the Collector Adept just doesn't suit your playstyle, but don't knock the class just because you don't feel you can use it effectively. I couldn't use the Drell Adept to save my life, but does that mean it sucks?

[lightswitch]

billy the squid wrote...

Weapons platforms crush any Adept well played. 

Well this guy has the potential to change that, and they should fix him so he does. All the tools are right there, you described them yourself. They just need to adjust the implementation. That's reason I made this thread.

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Long cooldowns or long animations... he shouldn't have both.

He shouldn't have either. We've got infiltrators running around in god-mode, would it really destroy the game balance to have a very powerful AoE adept in the game that doesn't rely on grenades?

[Cakekey]

I've run him with a Mattock since launch, I played off-host with PUGs and did great. It took a lot of getting used to, and I admittedly wasn't even aware of Ascension mode for the first three or four games.

Dark Sphere has had a few hiccups, though. Mainly premature detonation...Not sure whether enemy fire is capable of setting it off or what, but it's cost me quite a few Phoenix Downs.

[billy the squid]

lightswitch wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

No. He has greater staying power than a Human Adept, and the Bararian slasher. 40% DR and 937 shileds with only 3 ranks in fitness is tough which ever way you cut it. He's also far tougher than the Fury, but he isn't a glass cannon build. Neither is he limited by grenades like the drell if you're on a team with frequent grenade and harrier users.

Well if we're determining a kits quality based on fitness now than the Batslasher clearly has the CA outdone.

I understand all the combos, I really do. I understand the cooldown canceling, the animation cancels. They're all well and good.

None of it changes the fact this guy has slow animations, slow cooldowns, slow travel times, and problems off host. It's a mediocre kit and I really think you're all still buying into the theory of it rather than the reality. Or maybe you're all playing it on silver, I don't know, what I do know is the CA is not an efficient killer.

Because Batarian slasher has a 40% DR? No he doesn't. And to use lash to deal with phantoms, you need to sacrifice fitness to keep warp and cluster grenades. So your fitness suddenly become quite a bit less, without the manuverability of the collector.

Gold Reapers Goddess, 120k
Gold  Geth  Giant 100k
Gold Collectors Jade 90k
Gold Cerberus Glacier 100k

If you understand cooldown cancelling, why are you complaining about cooldowns? And while the Batarian slasher is great I tend to pick manuverable classes over those with fitness which does nothing on higher difficulty.

My real issue with the Collector is the Acension mode, for the damage increase the damage taken just isn't worth it. I almost never end up using it. Could DS be faster? Yes. But frankly, I'm more concerned about the off host lack which can be incredibly frustrating with him.

Modifié par billy the squid, 01 mars 2013 - 10:31 .

[Papa5murf]

Yeah only time i really use Ascension mode is if there is a Geth Juggy in the team to take all the aggro off me

[JohnDoe]

any kind of lag and this guy is terrible, as powers will be constantly disappearing or resetting.

[nicethugbert]

Mook bulltets trigger a short CD. The timing or quantity of them can totally get you killed even though you are not staggered/stunned and can move and fire.  This could be what is causing the lack of responze on pressing a button.

It's one of the cheap subtlies of the game that pisses me off.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 01 mars 2013 - 10:33 .

[lightswitch]

Aetika wrote...

I actually find him pretty good. Slower but powerfull. Just need to stay out of close combat. He goes down quickly and being in the middle of horde with powers on cooldown is death sentence...*snip*

That's a big part of the problem right there. DS travels so slowly it's useless at long range, if you try to hit anything with it more than 20m away there probably won't be anything there once the sphere actually arrives. You can mitigate this somewhat by speccing for radius, but that drastically cuts your damage output.

But once you get inside effective range, that slow slow launch animation really makes you vulnerable.

heybigmoney wrote...

He's a cross between the drell adept/huntress/batsol. He'll never be able to spawn nuke like the drell can, but his aoe is still very effective. What he can do that no other adept can, is stack ridiculous dot dmg on bosses. With max DC plus sphere you are doing well over 1k+ dmg per second against boss armor. Combine this with a good weapon with warp ammo, he'll melt bosses like no other aoe class can.

Long story short, max out sphere and dark channel. If you focus on only aoe and biotic detonations, you've got a 2nd rate spawn nuker to the drell adept.

This is interesting, I'll probably try it later. But to be honest, I despise damage over time powers. Guns and power combos kill things faster.

But the CA has the potential to be a nuker, a genuinely grade-A killer of epic proportions. Why not let him be truly free and reach for his potential? Clearly whoever designed this kit had nuking in mind as a possibilty, he was meant to do it, it just got messed up a little bit somewhere in the process of implementation.

Papa5murf wrote...

I ONLY Play Gold Pugs, and ONLY Off Host, and i am loving the Collector Adept. Maybe the Collector Adept just doesn't suit your playstyle, but don't knock the class just because you don't feel you can use it effectively. I couldn't use the Drell Adept to save my life, but does that mean it sucks?

Hey man, I'm just trying to get this kit made better. It's cool that you're having fun with it. Also, I never said I can't use it effectively, I just think it's a severely limited kit right now that could be magnitudes better with some minor adjustments.

Modifié par lightswitch, 01 mars 2013 - 10:39 .

[doozerdude]

There is no such thing as bad in practice.

There is however this thing called l2p

[Papa5murf]

lightswitch wrote...

Hey man, I'm just trying to get this kit made better. It's cool that you're having fun with it. Also, I never said I can't use it effectively, I just think it's a severely limited kit right now that could be magnitudes better with some minor adjustments.

Yeah i know. I apologise if i sounded harsh, maybe i'm a bit too defensive over the Collector Adept coz  he has grown on me so quickly...

[Simba501]

OP, agree with you on the cooldown. Needs buffing.

[lightswitch]

billy the squid wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

No. He has greater staying power than a Human Adept, and the Bararian slasher. 40% DR and 937 shileds with only 3 ranks in fitness is tough which ever way you cut it. He's also far tougher than the Fury, but he isn't a glass cannon build. Neither is he limited by grenades like the drell if you're on a team with frequent grenade and harrier users.

Well if we're determining a kits quality based on fitness now than the Batslasher clearly has the CA outdone.

I understand all the combos, I really do. I understand the cooldown canceling, the animation cancels. They're all well and good.

None of it changes the fact this guy has slow animations, slow cooldowns, slow travel times, and problems off host. It's a mediocre kit and I really think you're all still buying into the theory of it rather than the reality. Or maybe you're all playing it on silver, I don't know, what I do know is the CA is not an efficient killer.

Because Batarian slasher has a 40% DR? No he doesn't. And to use lash to deal with phantoms, you need to sacrifice fitness to keep warp and cluster grenades. So your fitness suddenly become quite a bit less, without the manuverability of the collector.

Gold Reapers Goddess, 120k
Gold  Geth  Giant 100k
Gold Collectors Jade 90k
Gold Cerberus Glacier 100k

If you understand cooldown cancelling, why are you complaining about cooldowns? And while the Batarian slasher is great I tend to pick manuverable classes over those with fitness which does nothing on higher difficulty.

My real issue with the Collector is the Acension mode, for the damage increase the damage taken just isn't worth it. I almost never end up using it. Could DS be faster? Yes. But frankly, I'm more concerned about the off host lack which can be incredibly frustrating with him.

What I was actually trying to say with the bit about comparing fitness is that fitness is barely relevant in determining the overall power of a kit. As long as they have the ability to stay alive, that's all that matters. None of the characters we're talking about have the ability to tank so much damage it significantly increases the rate they can expose themselves to enemies.

What were the scores you listed?

And I'm glad we can agree on off-host lag, ascension mode, and DS travel speed.

And the reason I'm complaining about the cooldowns is a) they're unnecessary and you can cancel as much as you want but you're still going to end up with long cooldowns somewhere. Turning everything into a DC cooldown every single time just isn't feasible.

Modifié par lightswitch, 01 mars 2013 - 10:47 .

[Giantdeathrobot]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Long cooldowns or long animations... he shouldn't have both.

This. Shorten the SS cooldown, it completely neuters his damage output for a good 6-7 seconds. No mere detonator should do that. Sphere is powerful, so it's OK. Speeding up the animations a bit would be nice, but oh well.

Oh, and remove the Ascension penalty. There's no reason to use it as of now.

[billy the squid]

lightswitch wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

No. He has greater staying power than a Human Adept, and the Bararian slasher. 40% DR and 937 shileds with only 3 ranks in fitness is tough which ever way you cut it. He's also far tougher than the Fury, but he isn't a glass cannon build. Neither is he limited by grenades like the drell if you're on a team with frequent grenade and harrier users.

Well if we're determining a kits quality based on fitness now than the Batslasher clearly has the CA outdone.

I understand all the combos, I really do. I understand the cooldown canceling, the animation cancels. They're all well and good.

None of it changes the fact this guy has slow animations, slow cooldowns, slow travel times, and problems off host. It's a mediocre kit and I really think you're all still buying into the theory of it rather than the reality. Or maybe you're all playing it on silver, I don't know, what I do know is the CA is not an efficient killer.

Because Batarian slasher has a 40% DR? No he doesn't. And to use lash to deal with phantoms, you need to sacrifice fitness to keep warp and cluster grenades. So your fitness suddenly become quite a bit less, without the manuverability of the collector.

Gold Reapers Goddess, 120k
Gold  Geth  Giant 100k
Gold Collectors Jade 90k
Gold Cerberus Glacier 100k

If you understand cooldown cancelling, why are you complaining about cooldowns? And while the Batarian slasher is great I tend to pick manuverable classes over those with fitness which does nothing on higher difficulty.

My real issue with the Collector is the Acension mode, for the damage increase the damage taken just isn't worth it. I almost never end up using it. Could DS be faster? Yes. But frankly, I'm more concerned about the off host lack which can be incredibly frustrating with him.

What I was actually trying to say with the bit about comparing fitness is that fitness is barely relevant in determining the overall power of a kit. As long as they have the ability to stay alive, that's all that matters. None of the characters we're talking about have the ability to tank so much damage it significantly increases the rate they can expose themselves to enemies.

What were the scores you listed?

And I'm glad we can agree on off-host lag, ascension mode, and DS travel speed.

And the reason I'm complaining about the cooldowns is a) they're unnecessary and you can cancel as much as you want but you're still going to end up with long cooldowns somewhere. Turning everything into a DC cooldown every single time just isn't feasible.

He's certainly not a tank, but the 40% DR is what keeps you alive even with only 3 ranks in fitness, especially when launching DS. If he doesn't have that then yes, DS is a real liability and the long animation can be very painful.

I was using him this evening. I played with a friend and a couple of PuGs he beat me only once with the alliance infiltrator when I was using the Collector Adept. Those were the scores I racked up in my gold matches this evening.

True it's not feasible every time, but it goes someway to explain why I can spam Dark sphere repeatedly every 3 or so seconds, it quickly starts to mount up. It's like the cancelling with infils. Tac cloak. it does take practice. 

I'd like Dark Spere to have a slight speed increase, Acension mode, I'm really not sure how to get this to work yet. It's a good idea, but the pay off isn't worth it as you have to have a full passive, but it then negates the ability to use DC to cancel the DS cooldown and renders the 40% DR of seeker swarm moot, which you really need if you're launching DS in the open.

Off host lag, especially when the animation for DS activates and then doesn't fire, is very frustrating. I think considering the detonation damage of DS the cooldown may be warranted, but an increase in travel time would certainly make it easier to use. You can judge the trajectory fairly effectvely, but it take practice.

[Kuro_Fenikkusu]

lightswitch wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

He's an amazing character.
Best mook killing adept.

If one of those Dark Channel-Seeker Swarm combos would actually kill anything tougher than a Cannibal with one BE, I would agree with you.

Also, Fury says hello.

Dark sphere kills centurions in one detonation.
Anything left standing is primed for BE with seeker swarms.
You can also negate seekers CD with DS detonation.

Also Collector Adept says hello, nice to meet you.

I'm aware of the power of the Dark Sphere detonation - Seeker swarms combo. It's why this kit should have been great, but it's still not good because of the way it was implemented. You can only cast it every 10 seconds or so. The Fury will outpace the CA easily. The Collector is too clunky, clumsy and encumbered by cooldowns to keep up with the top tier (or even somewhat above average) kits.

You are exactly right.  I wanted to love this kit so bad but most of the time I just say fork it and start kiling everything with my gun because the cooldowns on SS and DS are just obscene.  Even if you don't detonate Dark Sphere the cooldown on his only detonator is almost 8 seconds.  compared to a fury that can pretty much mash throw non-stop.  I think they could leave the DS cooldown as it is,  but the seeker swarm definitely needs the cooldown reduced.  no other kit is so hamstrung by cooldown times.

[ZoneOfNibiru]

 I've been playing this guy the most since reckoning came out, and the issue of powers simply not firing are even more frustrating than the slow animations and long cooldowns.

I literally have to press the seeker swarm button 3 or 4 times nearly every time I use it just to fire a swarm, I'll just get a little 'beep' and no power.  Same with dark Sphere, I always have to press it at least twice, sometimes it won't fire at all, yet my cooldown will start, or sometimes it will start floating toward the enemy a couple seconds later.

It seems to suffer from even the smallest amount of lag.  I don't have this much of an issue with any other kit other than vanguards.

[sabientje67]

Kalas321 wrote...

Anyone have good gameplay footage for him?

Xcalizorz posted a video using him yesterday: