213 réponses à ce sujet

[lightswitch]

doozerdude wrote...

There is no such thing as bad in practice.

There is however this thing called l2p

You're on PC, show me how it's done. lightswitch37, add me, we'll play.

[Grunt_Platform]

It actually needs to be pretty steep lag to kill the Awakened Collector. I had a match with lag bad enough that Ravagers were consistently hitting me through walls and I was still wiping spawns with Dark Sphere.

Anyway... I doubt he's -quite- as good as the Drell Adept, but he's up there. He's one of the few Adepts who, on Gold, has enough power damage to kill large groups of enemies with powers alone. Saw some napkin calculations for Dark Sphere earlier in the thread that seemed to be ignoring its DOT—which is kinda silly, since Dark Sphere's DOT is on par with Inferno Grenades—stronger, even! And it can put a DOT effect on an unlimited number of targets.

In practice, it's pretty easy for the Collector to wipe out an entire spawn of mooks with just Dark Sphere. The detonation is a coup de grace, not the primary damage source. And its slow cast speed is pretty well mitigated by the fact that you can keep moving at nearly full-speed during the animation.

If you're really having problems with it, try this build, with warp ammo. Yeah, the warp ammo and SMG damage will count for a lot, but the powers will be pulling their weight too.

Modifié par EvanKester, 01 mars 2013 - 11:42 .

[GreatBlueHeron]

upinya slayin wrote...

i can't figure him out really. he seems more squishy then his health/shields would imply. His BEs don't get a damage modifyer. Dark Spehre is sketchy when trying to explode. and his cooldowns are long. I can't find a build i like and i've tried liek 4. My fav so far would be the no dark sphere build

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed he is more squishy than the numbers indicate.  Is it because barrier is weaker than shields?  Maybe the kind of damage from enemies penetrates barriers better than shields?  I dunno, but combine that with long cooldown and he's tricky to use.  Still love the character...fun to play.

[HolyAvenger]

I'm still playing him and trying him out, but I honestly haven't run into any off-host issues. Using the Swarms for DR and a DS-DC-detonate DS trifecta with a CSMG has me running up some decent scores. I like him.

[nokori3byo]

On my first time using the ACA:

"Hmmm, what does this anti-matter ball thingy do?"

1 Killstreak

"Oh."

[Quinary_Dunkage]

Deerber wrote...

-snipped- (numbers and whatnot supporting drell)


From a pure damage point of view, the Collector will never ever ever be able to even stand close to a Drell Adept. But that's not the point, cause he might be good and still not be close to the Drell. The point is that he's not even that good, in my opinion (and Lightswitch's), because mainly of his long animation and cooldowns, maybe for something else too.

You are correct about the drell. I am in error. I apologize

Edit: But I still believe this kit to be better than the naysayers in this thread make him out to be. If he was truely sub-par, people wouldn't be outscoring TGI+Harriers and whatnot.

SUPER Edit: On the issue of cooldowns, you can cancel Seeker swarm cooldown off host with dark channel

Modifié par LC714, 02 mars 2013 - 01:33 .

[SilentBacon]

He's awesome, activate swarm, cast sphere into enemies, detonate, cast swarms on enemies that don't die. Rinse and repeat. Heavy melee when safe to trigger faster cool downs.

[JohnnyQPublic]

Several people have thrown out some huge DOT numbers for Dark Sphere, but you might be mistaken. The listed "damage over time" number is not, as I understand it, damage per second. It is the TOTAL DOT damage and is spread out over the duration. Compare that to inferno grenades, where the description specifically lists "damage per second." I don't think Dark Sphere DOT is nearly as impressive as some people believe.

[Grunt_Platform]

JohnnyQPublic wrote...

Several people have thrown out some huge DOT numbers for Dark Sphere, but you might be mistaken. The listed "damage over time" number is not, as I understand it, damage per second. It is the TOTAL DOT damage and is spread out over the duration. Compare that to inferno grenades, where the description specifically lists "damage per second." I don't think Dark Sphere DOT is nearly as impressive as some people believe.

Probably!

It's still not too small a chunk of damage.

[holdenagincourt]

lightswitch wrote...

 I just went and played a few more games with the Collector Adept. Initially I thought he was good but I've completely changed my position. This character is so close to great, but the implementation sucks. Sure the animations are too long, the cooldowns are painful, ascension mode animation and damage increase is a death sentence, and the travel speed of Dark Sphere is awful. But that's not even what ruins this kit.

What really kills it for me is the off-host vanguard-esque glitchiness. The number of times I found myself spamming the 1 key to try and make the Dark Sphere detonate was seriously obnoxious. Half the time you can't get it to detonate exactly when you want, or at all. The same goes for the Seeker Swarms. They're fine, when they work, but once again the controls seem jacked and I'm frequently stuck spamming 2 while nothing happens. The targeting also doesn't seem to work as well as with other biotic powers.

I vastly underperform when I use this kit. A lot. Maybe I just need more practice with it, but I don't think so. Slow animations, slow travel speed on Dark Sphere, slow cooldowns, and unresponsive controls pretty much kill the potential the CA had.

I mean compare it to the Drell Adept. He has similar or more damage output, quick combos with real short animations, powers with fast travel times, and a damage REDUCTION. He's vastly superior to the Collector.

It kills me how they give Adepts and most normal classes huge drawbacks to their good powers in the name of balance (aka long cooldowns and slow travel times), while they give infiltrators a god mode, 4 second cooldowns on everything, wall hacks, insta-health, and only the very best CC powers.

The AIU proves Bioware doesn't care about balance, so I hope they buff this kit into oblivion. The cooldowns should be massively reduced, the animations should be either removed or massively sped up, the damage reduction on Ascension Mode should be completely removed, and the travel speed of Dark Sphere should be doubled or tripled. I want an overpowered caster that doesn't rely on grenades, dammit. Make it happen, Bioware.

TL;DR Glitched controls ruin the CA, should be buffed x10 to compensate.

You hit the nail on the head with this one. Seeker Swarm cast is frustratingly slow off-host, Dark Sphere sometimes randomly disappears, the detonation requires button mashing oftentimes, every animation takes an eternity, the cooldowns are too damn high, Ascension Mode is one of the longest animations in the game and can't be cancelled, his light melee is slower than Phoenix light melee by far and doesn't even lock on to enemies...I could go on and on.

He's fun, but I'm never going to play him off-host, especially since those animations and cooldowns are a death sentence if enemies have LOS to you.

[born2beagator]

Deerber wrote...

He's good. Not great... Good. Could be very good (although not even close to the Drell) if it didn't have those oh-so-long animations...

nope, he is great.  Especially on a team of biotics

[LoganMooreNCSU]

It's really frustrating when you hit 2 over and over and nothing happens, same with the Juggernaut and siege pulse. I might have to start hosting games to make sure it doesn't happen as bad.

[lightswitch]

LC714 wrote...

Deerber wrote...

-snipped- (numbers and whatnot supporting drell)


From a pure damage point of view, the Collector will never ever ever be able to even stand close to a Drell Adept. But that's not the point, cause he might be good and still not be close to the Drell. The point is that he's not even that good, in my opinion (and Lightswitch's), because mainly of his long animation and cooldowns, maybe for something else too.

You are correct about the drell. I am in error. I apologize

Edit: But I still believe this kit to be better than the naysayers in this thread make him out to be. If he was truely sub-par, people wouldn't be outscoring TGI+Harriers and whatnot.

SUPER Edit: On the issue of cooldowns, you can cancel Seeker swarm cooldown off host with dark channel

That's not true. I can outscore most people using a TGI-Harrier combo with a Turian Saboteur, that doesn't mean the Saboteur is on equal footing. Player skill > kit capability.

If I'm the naysayer you're referring, I'm only trying to point out that the CA gets the triple hammer: long cooldowns, long launch animations, long travel times. And it doesn't do more damage than most grenades. It's a little bit obscene, and in combo with the off-host lag issues the character is absolutely gimped.

The potential for massive damage output is there, no one is denying that. But it's just not fair that this kit gets three huge drawbacks when his damage output just doesn't warrant it.

[Pyroninja42]

BTW, spec'd properly 4 seeker swarms do 2200+ damage to armor and barriers while also slowing the target down.

[LincolnWithHat]

The only time I have problems with Dark Sphere is on inclines, myself. It seems picky about firing off those.

[lightswitch]

LoganMooreNCSU wrote...

It's really frustrating when you hit 2 over and over and nothing happens, same with the Juggernaut and siege pulse. I might have to start hosting games to make sure it doesn't happen as bad.

I hear you. So frustrating, it really puts the nail in the coffin on this kit for me.

born2beagator wrote...

Deerber wrote...

He's good. Not great... Good. Could be very good (although not even close to the Drell) if it didn't have those oh-so-long animations...

nope, he is great.  Especially on a team of biotics

No, he's not.

Modifié par lightswitch, 02 mars 2013 - 02:22 .

[born2beagator]

lightswitch wrote...

LoganMooreNCSU wrote...

It's really frustrating when you hit 2 over and over and nothing happens, same with the Juggernaut and siege pulse. I might have to start hosting games to make sure it doesn't happen as bad.

I hear you. So frustrating, it really puts the nail in the coffin on this kit for me.

born2beagator wrote...

Deerber wrote...

He's good. Not great... Good. Could be very good (although not even close to the Drell) if it didn't have those oh-so-long animations...

nope, he is great.  Especially on a team of biotics

No, he's not.

Yes, he is.  But hey, you guys keep whining about him.  Maybe he will actually get a buff if enough people whine about it.  Works with the nerfs...

Modifié par born2beagator, 02 mars 2013 - 02:30 .

[lightswitch]

Pyroninja42 wrote...

BTW, spec'd properly 4 seeker swarms do 2200+ damage to armor and barriers while also slowing the target down.

That sounds pretty great, until you realize the amount of cooldown you're sacrifing to get it, the amount of time it takes to do the damage (launching four swarms will take a couple seconds, especially if you're dealing with lag), and that a single frag grenade on a human soldier (with passives for weapon damage) will do more damage to armor. That's right, a frag grenade (specced for armor damage of course).

So many other kits do similar or more power damage than the CA, but have fewer drawbacks.

Modifié par lightswitch, 02 mars 2013 - 02:34 .

[lightswitch]

born2beagator wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

LoganMooreNCSU wrote...

It's really frustrating when you hit 2 over and over and nothing happens, same with the Juggernaut and siege pulse. I might have to start hosting games to make sure it doesn't happen as bad.

I hear you. So frustrating, it really puts the nail in the coffin on this kit for me.

born2beagator wrote...

Deerber wrote...

He's good. Not great... Good. Could be very good (although not even close to the Drell) if it didn't have those oh-so-long animations...

nope, he is great.  Especially on a team of biotics

No, he's not.

Yes, he is.  But hey, you guys keep whining about him.  Maybe he will actually get a buff:whistle:

In comparison to what is he great?

Are you on PC? Please, I'm dying for someone to show me in person the wondrous power of the Awakened Collector.

Modifié par lightswitch, 02 mars 2013 - 02:32 .

[born2beagator]

lightswitch wrote...

born2beagator wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

LoganMooreNCSU wrote...

It's really frustrating when you hit 2 over and over and nothing happens, same with the Juggernaut and siege pulse. I might have to start hosting games to make sure it doesn't happen as bad.

I hear you. So frustrating, it really puts the nail in the coffin on this kit for me.

born2beagator wrote...

Deerber wrote...

He's good. Not great... Good. Could be very good (although not even close to the Drell) if it didn't have those oh-so-long animations...

nope, he is great.  Especially on a team of biotics

No, he's not.

Yes, he is.  But hey, you guys keep whining about him.  Maybe he will actually get a buff:whistle:

In comparison to what is he great?

Are you on PC? Please, I'm dying for someone to show me in person the wondrous power of the Awakened Collector.

sadly, I am an xbox peasent.  But trust me, if I were on PC I would be happy to show you.  

[lightswitch]

born2beagator wrote...

sadly, I am an xbox peasent.  But trust me, if I were on PC I would be happy to show you.  

I didn't really think you would offer any comparisons.

[SimiSideways]

Killstreaks with Dark Sphere aren't good enough for you?

[Chi_Mangetsu]

When people seem to be having trouble with him in PUGs it seems largely to stem with a tendency to detonate DS almost immediately after casting instead of taking advantage of its nonexistent cooldown sans detonation.

[andresft]

Yes, I've had off-host issues, too.

But they don't merit a whole diatribe on why the kit is "bad in practice." It's not a bad kit, by any stretch of the imagination. It's bugged (in more ways than one), but it's not bad. Again, for clarity: it's bugged, but it's not a bad kit.

They're two completely different things and I can't think of a single reason why you wouldn't want to make the distinction.

[born2beagator]

lightswitch wrote...

born2beagator wrote...

sadly, I am an xbox peasent.  But trust me, if I were on PC I would be happy to show you.  

I didn't really think you would offer any comparisons.

Unfortunatly I'm not as good as some others here in making comparisons between characters, so I'd ask someone  else.  Alls I know is that the gold matches I have used him on have gone very smoothly we me usually either toping the boarder or coming in second.  Since I can't really make a good comparision, I will just share how I play him, which is probably a kind of unique way:

I don't even cast seeker swarms.  I have them specced for DR and an extra swarm and I just keep them on me the entier match.  40% Dr is pretty substansial.  For my weapon I take the CSMG, which I unfortuantly only have at IV.  But I put warp rounds on that and it still does very good damage to primed targets.

This is where he really shines for me is not a detonator but as a primer for everyone else while doing really good damage with dark sphere and dark channel.  What I love about dark channel is the windup believe it or not.  You aren't locked into the direction you cast, you can aim it mid cast.  Sure he isn't the BEST adept for dealing damage through detonation, but he is a great class nonetheless.