213 réponses à ce sujet

[Jonathan Shepard]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

He's an amazing character.
Best mook killing adept.

What? No! Fury is much better. She's faster, and can AF->throw just about anything that doesn't have armor. If it does, you're going to have to zip in and out of the engagement to re-prime AF, and then you may as well use DC, but once again, that explodes once, and then doesn't travel. Thanks to DS, the CA is way better at killing bosses; much better than AF would be. But Fury is at LEAST on par if not better against the infantry units.

[KalilKareem]

lightswitch wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

He's a great character, and easily a top tier Adept.

Disagree...strongly. He's not even close to the top tier adepts, the Drell and the Fury. The Slasher and probably the Human Adept are also better than the CA. So that's two tiers that outclass this kit. He's somewhere in the third tier or lower.

On a team with a well played top tier kit, even in the hands of a veteran player the CA would be forced to resort to spamming Dark Channel at everything and shooting his gun.

Id add old asari adept and justicar to the list as well tbh. Not impressed by my owm results with him, nor have I been impressed by anything I have seen anyone else accomplish with him.

[billy the squid]

Deerber wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

@Deerber

It's the power cooldown issues. I haven't got it quite right yet. But I fire dark channel at an enemy before the DS hits them and detonates, and the cooldown seems to be lower letting me detonate Dark matter implosion without being hit by the phenomenally long cooldown, if I do it in the DC cooldown period.

Hence I detonate Dark matter implosion, and get the huge damage, but minus the long cooldown. I have to test it more, because sometimes when I detonate DS without using DC I do get with the horrifying 6 second cooldown. If you're regularly facing that, then I can fully understand why you don't think he's good. And I agree that it's way too long. It might be a bug or issue with the cooldown mechanics between DS and DC, I'm not sure yet.

Uhm. That sounds odd. What should happen is that you cast DS (no CD), then you cast DC and suffer his cooldown, but you can detonate DS while on cooldown and that will trigger DS cooldown, which should override the DC's one and so you should suffer the whole 8ish seconds long cooldown from DS. Sure, you're going to have 2 powers for 1 cooldown, but it's always an 8 second cooldown. At least, that's what should happen and surely it's what's been happening to me.

If your DS cooldown is not overriding the DC one instead... It surely is a glitch, but it might be worth investigating. Having a DS with 3-4 secs cooldown would surely change things :innocent:

It's odd, because when I just use DC and seekers to detonate biotics, my DC simply recharges in about 2 second. And the times when I've detonated DS outside of the DC cooldown then I get hit with that really long cooldown. Yet while detonating after I fire DC and within the cooldown, doesn't seem to generate the long cooldown for DS but a longer cooldown than I would normally get for simply casting DC.

I'm not sure how it works, until the charactor creator on the forum is fixed up, I can't be sure that it's not my load out. But even running a Hurricane or a Collector SMG which gives me +180% cooldown, the recharge speed on the DS after detonation is huge, and I haven't chosen recharge evolutions, so I'm unsure whether that would boost the recharge speed, but I don't think it would affect it so much.  

I'm going to have to run another test on at some point on silver tonight so I can pay closer attention and count off the recharge times, without worrying about incoming fire. It's possible that it could work in a similar way to Tac cloak? 

http://narida.pytalh...daptiveWarAmp5/

This is the build I use which gives me a cooldown of 4.4 secs, which feels about right. But it doesn't account for the ability to detonate and retain the cooldown, when you're saying it takes up to 8 seconds to get DS back again. Which is where I think the bug may lie, which can be used when casting DC before the sphere hits and you detonate, retaining the standard recharge speed. It's something I have to look at and make sure.

Modifié par billy the squid, 02 mars 2013 - 01:11 .

[Aetika]

I do the same. I cast DS, then DC and cooldown seems really better then if I don´t cast DC.

[Deerber]

billy the squid wrote...

Deerber wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

@Deerber

It's the power cooldown issues. I haven't got it quite right yet. But I fire dark channel at an enemy before the DS hits them and detonates, and the cooldown seems to be lower letting me detonate Dark matter implosion without being hit by the phenomenally long cooldown, if I do it in the DC cooldown period.

Hence I detonate Dark matter implosion, and get the huge damage, but minus the long cooldown. I have to test it more, because sometimes when I detonate DS without using DC I do get with the horrifying 6 second cooldown. If you're regularly facing that, then I can fully understand why you don't think he's good. And I agree that it's way too long. It might be a bug or issue with the cooldown mechanics between DS and DC, I'm not sure yet.

Uhm. That sounds odd. What should happen is that you cast DS (no CD), then you cast DC and suffer his cooldown, but you can detonate DS while on cooldown and that will trigger DS cooldown, which should override the DC's one and so you should suffer the whole 8ish seconds long cooldown from DS. Sure, you're going to have 2 powers for 1 cooldown, but it's always an 8 second cooldown. At least, that's what should happen and surely it's what's been happening to me.

If your DS cooldown is not overriding the DC one instead... It surely is a glitch, but it might be worth investigating. Having a DS with 3-4 secs cooldown would surely change things :innocent:

It's odd, because when I just use DC and seekers to detonate biotics, my DC simply recharges in about 2 second. And the times when I've detonated DS outside of the DC cooldown then I get hit with that really long cooldown. Yet while detonating after I fire DC and within the cooldown, doesn't seem to generate the long cooldown for DS but a longer cooldown than I would normally get for simply casting DC.

I'm not sure how it works, until the charactor creator on the forum is fixed up, I can't be sure that it's not my load out. But even running a Hurricane or a Collector SMG which gives me +180% cooldown, the recharge speed on the DS after detonation is huge, and I haven't chosen recharge evolutions, so I'm unsure whether that would boost the recharge speed, but I don't think it would affect it so much.  

I'm going to have to run another test on at some point on silver tonight so I can pay closer attention and count off the recharge times, without worrying about incoming fire. It's possible that it could work in a similar way to Tac cloak? 

http://narida.pytalh...daptiveWarAmp5/

This is the build I use which gives me a cooldown of 4.4 secs, which feels about right. But it doesn't account for the ability to detonate and retain the cooldown, when you're saying it takes up to 8 seconds to get DS back again. Which is where I think the bug may lie, which can be used when casting DC before the sphere hits and you detonate, retaining the standard recharge speed. It's something I have to look at and make sure.

Don't listend to Narida, it lies. It's not updated the right way yet. With that build, the CD on DS is roughly 10 seconds 

And yes, it most definitely works as TC in regards to cooldowns. But the point is, the awesomeness of TC is that the cooldown is only 3ish seconds if you decloak immediately. Therefore the power's CD get overriden by the 3 secs CD and you earn lots of time. But given that the CD of DS is around 8-10 seconds... You don't earn much time this way, you see? You still get the full 8-10 secs CD, although for 2 powers. At least, that's how it's supposed to behave I think.

Let us know what you find 

[DJ Airsurfer]

The only things that needs changing IMO are lowered cooldowns and a buff to Ascension Stance.

Modifié par DJ Airsurfer, 02 mars 2013 - 01:48 .

[billy the squid]

Deerber wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Deerber wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

@Deerber

It's the power cooldown issues. I haven't got it quite right yet. But I fire dark channel at an enemy before the DS hits them and detonates, and the cooldown seems to be lower letting me detonate Dark matter implosion without being hit by the phenomenally long cooldown, if I do it in the DC cooldown period.

Hence I detonate Dark matter implosion, and get the huge damage, but minus the long cooldown. I have to test it more, because sometimes when I detonate DS without using DC I do get with the horrifying 6 second cooldown. If you're regularly facing that, then I can fully understand why you don't think he's good. And I agree that it's way too long. It might be a bug or issue with the cooldown mechanics between DS and DC, I'm not sure yet.

Uhm. That sounds odd. What should happen is that you cast DS (no CD), then you cast DC and suffer his cooldown, but you can detonate DS while on cooldown and that will trigger DS cooldown, which should override the DC's one and so you should suffer the whole 8ish seconds long cooldown from DS. Sure, you're going to have 2 powers for 1 cooldown, but it's always an 8 second cooldown. At least, that's what should happen and surely it's what's been happening to me.

If your DS cooldown is not overriding the DC one instead... It surely is a glitch, but it might be worth investigating. Having a DS with 3-4 secs cooldown would surely change things :innocent:

It's odd, because when I just use DC and seekers to detonate biotics, my DC simply recharges in about 2 second. And the times when I've detonated DS outside of the DC cooldown then I get hit with that really long cooldown. Yet while detonating after I fire DC and within the cooldown, doesn't seem to generate the long cooldown for DS but a longer cooldown than I would normally get for simply casting DC.

I'm not sure how it works, until the charactor creator on the forum is fixed up, I can't be sure that it's not my load out. But even running a Hurricane or a Collector SMG which gives me +180% cooldown, the recharge speed on the DS after detonation is huge, and I haven't chosen recharge evolutions, so I'm unsure whether that would boost the recharge speed, but I don't think it would affect it so much.  

I'm going to have to run another test on at some point on silver tonight so I can pay closer attention and count off the recharge times, without worrying about incoming fire. It's possible that it could work in a similar way to Tac cloak? 

http://narida.pytalh...daptiveWarAmp5/

This is the build I use which gives me a cooldown of 4.4 secs, which feels about right. But it doesn't account for the ability to detonate and retain the cooldown, when you're saying it takes up to 8 seconds to get DS back again. Which is where I think the bug may lie, which can be used when casting DC before the sphere hits and you detonate, retaining the standard recharge speed. It's something I have to look at and make sure.

Don't listend to Narida, it lies. It's not updated the right way yet. With that build, the CD on DS is roughly 10 seconds 

And yes, it most definitely works as TC in regards to cooldowns. But the point is, the awesomeness of TC is that the cooldown is only 3ish seconds if you decloak immediately. Therefore the power's CD get overriden by the 3 secs CD and you earn lots of time. But given that the CD of DS is around 8-10 seconds... You don't earn much time this way, you see? You still get the full 8-10 secs CD, although for 2 powers. At least, that's how it's supposed to behave I think.

Let us know what you find 

Yeah, I thought Narida was bugged. Although I don't have anywhere close to a 10 second cooldown on DS, mine remains about 3/4 seconds using that build and the method I described. If you're getting a 10 sec. cooldown, then I it really seems to be a bug  that we can exploit for repeatedly casting DS, as detonating something like that in reletavely quick succession can be really powerful. Yeah, I can see how Tack cloak system would work with DS, but I can't account for the reduced cooldown when firing DC before the sphere hits and you detonate.

I think the radius evolution on detonation is bugged, so you don't get the reduced radius size for Dark Matter sphere.

Yep, I'll definately let you guys know what I find if I get time to test it out tonight. I think it may improve people's opinion of the Collector if they can cast something that causes over 3000 damage every 4 seconds.

Aside from that I think if the cooldown bug can't be recreated consistently for the community at large then yes a Cooldown on DS should be implemented, Ascension needs a re work as I don't find it useful at the moment and off host lag really needs some work as that causes real problems for DS. A small speed increase with DS would also make it easier to use.

Modifié par billy the squid, 02 mars 2013 - 01:50 .

[MasterPeras]

I don't see what the fuss is all about. He is now IMO the most powerfull adept in the game. Sure it's hard to play him but all new char are. (EDI bot not included)
This guy has the most build variations and the amount of dmg you can delliver is on the limit being OP.
Gliches are present true but he's not the only one affected by them and lag for that matter.
All in all this guy is the adept grandmaster.

[DJ Airsurfer]

The only thing that makes him powerful are good weapons. How is that being a grandmaster adept?

[MasterPeras]

And in addition, the DS cooldown is as should be. Why...well...if you look at it from this angle it's basically a free Dot/primer as you don't get the cooldown at all unless you detonate. So that's definitely something to bear in mind.

[your-friendly-noggin]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

He's an amazing character.
Best mook killing adept.

What? No! Fury is much better. She's faster, and can AF->throw just about anything that doesn't have armor. If it does, you're going to have to zip in and out of the engagement to re-prime AF, and then you may as well use DC, but once again, that explodes once, and then doesn't travel. Thanks to DS, the CA is way better at killing bosses; much better than AF would be. But Fury is at LEAST on par if not better against the infantry units.

You can't be playing it right because the DS travels almost as fast as a character sprinting and can one shot mooks in a huge radius on Gold difficulty. All the while you can be safe and sound behind cover or soft cover(I recommend soft as you can move while it casts). Also you are struggling to kill mooks for what ever reason just hit them with dark channel right before you detonate because you only get one cooldown instead of two and it should clean up the stragglers while you run off and do something else. 

With ultralight materials you can also carry a substantial weapon or two so while you are in the cooldown you can be shooting things.

The only thing I will recommend is speccing swarm for DR, extra swarm and never firing a single one unless it's an emergency, because the biotic explosions are not really worth losing that protection especially as dark sphere and channel combined with weapons do enough damage that you don't need it anyway.

[WaffleCrab]

Wait there is seriously some individual who has a problem using this powerhouse? Seriously?


thanks for the entertainment OP.

[MasterPeras]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

The only thing that makes him powerful are good weapons. How is that being a grandmaster adept?

You are joking right. You launch that sphere and everything around is primed for BEs. And if you happen to throw some DC in the mix now you have even more DoT and a primer that jumps from target to target. And if 3 or 4 BEs don't do the job just detonate the sphere.
Imb4splashdmg for the masses. 
The only thing I'm not entirely ok is the swarms CD. 

[your-friendly-noggin]

WaffleCrab wrote...

Wait there is seriously some individual who has a problem using this powerhouse? Seriously?


thanks for the entertainment OP.

Well to be fair he requires a bit more thought than the usual adepts in sending the sphere to the right spot and detonating at the perfect moment, I can see how people might struggle a bit there.

[shnig_1]

Buff ascension stance and lower cooldowns plz

[WaffleCrab]

your-friendly-noggin wrote...

WaffleCrab wrote...

Wait there is seriously some individual who has a problem using this powerhouse? Seriously?


thanks for the entertainment OP.

Well to be fair he requires a bit more thought than the usual adepts in sending the sphere to the right spot and detonating at the perfect moment, I can see how people might struggle a bit there.

 Lol propably just me then, i allways prefered the slow skills and the ones that require aiming, so i dont really feel awkward with it xD

[Michaelxdrift]

MasterPeras wrote...

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

The only thing that makes him powerful are good weapons. How is that being a grandmaster adept?

You are joking right. You launch that sphere and everything around is primed for BEs. And if you happen to throw some DC in the mix now you have even more DoT and a primer that jumps from target to target. And if 3 or 4 BEs don't do the job just detonate the sphere.
Imb4splashdmg for the masses. 
The only thing I'm not entirely ok is the swarms CD. 

Its about 1.76 seconds each swarmer when you spec recharge speed and extra swarmer. If they reduced the time by 1-2 seconds to keep it up to throw speed I would be very happy, but its not necissary.

A second or two off DS would be much appreciated to.

[Yamato069]

I agree with the OP in that everything he listed does hold this character back, but I wouldn't say I don't perform well with him. Even the first time I used him I managed to get a 130k+ score on gold. And I know score isn't as important as time but on characters I don't perform well on; I usually get around 60k-80k in a gold game.

The drell is still my favorite besides being incredibly squishy. You can't deny his damage output is massive, but in some games grenades are hard to come by.

I can live with the cooldowns, but the animations and speed of dark sphere could use some tweaking.

Modifié par Yamato069, 02 mars 2013 - 02:28 .

[your-friendly-noggin]

shnig_1 wrote...

Buff ascension stance and lower cooldowns plz

I agree the stance needs a buff but think about it this way for cooldowns:
-You can fire off dark sphere and use dark channel or recharge your swarms before detonating it and you only get one cooldown
-Swarms only need a cooldown once every 3 or 4 shots so you can spam them while using another power
-Detonating a dark sphere that is out already and firing swarms you have on you can be done while on a cooldown
-You can be safe in cover(or even popping shots out of cover) while dark channel and sphere takes out your enemies while that cooldown is on

So it might seem like a long time but so much can be done during or just before a cooldown that it doesn't really matter

[Chi_Mangetsu]

Stop detonating DS every single gorram time. What is difficult to understand about that?

[your-friendly-noggin]

WaffleCrab wrote...

your-friendly-noggin wrote...

WaffleCrab wrote...

Wait there is seriously some individual who has a problem using this powerhouse? Seriously?


thanks for the entertainment OP.

Well to be fair he requires a bit more thought than the usual adepts in sending the sphere to the right spot and detonating at the perfect moment, I can see how people might struggle a bit there.

 Lol propably just me then, i allways prefered the slow skills and the ones that require aiming, so i dont really feel awkward with it xD

Nah it's not just you, I love predicting where the enemies will go and perfectly detonating that sphere in their faces, it's ridiculously satisfying! What I meant was people used to the usual spam of "prime-BE" might feel overwhelmed! XD

[Chi_Mangetsu]

^Well said, noggin.

[DJ Airsurfer]

It's not that the Collector is bad, no no. It's that he should be BETTER. His cooldowns are too long for what they give, Ascension Stance gives -40% DR and not enough offensive buffs to compensate.

[X-Frame]

They need to at least double the buffs given for Ascension Stance to make it worthwhile. If I'm going to take 40% more damage I want my powers and recharge time to be drastically increased, especially if it's only 30 seconds and not a toggle.

[MasterPeras]

Michaelxdrift wrote...

MasterPeras wrote...

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

The only thing that makes him powerful are good weapons. How is that being a grandmaster adept?

You are joking right. You launch that sphere and everything around is primed for BEs. And if you happen to throw some DC in the mix now you have even more DoT and a primer that jumps from target to target. And if 3 or 4 BEs don't do the job just detonate the sphere.
Imb4splashdmg for the masses. 
The only thing I'm not entirely ok is the swarms CD. 

Its about 1.76 seconds each swarmer when you spec recharge speed and extra swarmer. If they reduced the time by 1-2 seconds to keep it up to throw speed I would be very happy, but its not necissary.

A second or two off DS would be much appreciated to.

I meant the CD of an initial cast.