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Tanking tips for Juggs


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#1
Guest_Heri_*

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Thought it might be useful to see how people tank with Juggs and to throw my own style out there for suggestions for improvement. Here's what I've got so far:

Spec - 5/6/6/3/6
Hex Shield - Pulse/Shock
Siege Pulse - Damage/Damage Protection/Extra Charge
Geth Turret - Shield Restore/Restore Range/Restore Frequency
Fitness - Durability/Shield Recharge/Power Transfer

Gear - Juggernaut Shield
Weapon - Wraith + Smart Choke + Omni-blade (only important thing here is the shotgun omni-blade)
Consumables - Cyclonic IV + Strength Enhancer III + AP ammo

I will say that an Adrenaline Mod is definitely a viable alternative to a Cyclonic Mod, but ONLY if you have teammates that know what they're doing and will actually focus fire what you're tanking. If they won't do that, then in all likelihood you're going to die fairly frequently and hence the Cyclonic is a much safer bet for pugging.

So how do I actually tank? By using 3 abilities: heavy melee, regular melee, and hex shield.

Hex shield and regular melee are for doing AoE damage and ensuring that I have aggro on as many enemies as possible. Hex shield's rank 4 evo does some AoE damage when you put it down, which gives a nice little extra damage boost in between heavy melees. His normal melee does something similar, so I use them both.

Siege Pulse is just there for the DR, or the occasional long-term kill if nothing's on me in melee range. But 99% of the time I don't touch it.

The Turret is there for teammates, as generally putting it in close proximity to yourself will just end up in the thing getting destroyed in 2 seconds. It's still not a great ability, but the rank 6 evos of hex shield don't appeal to me. I like keeping my shield as small as possible so that it doesn't block friendly fire, and the 10% damage boost is kinda silly since Juggs isn't about mad dps. Plus, a shield specced for pulse and shock is going to get popped really fast anyway.

I also don't care about more than 3 ranks in passives for him because a) you're hardly ever going to be firing your weapon when tanking if you're doing it right, and B) the only power damage increase you're going to get is the AoE pulse when you put your shield down. Neither is worth maxing the tree IMO, so I'd rather have some additional survivability for teammates.

How to actually tank

So this would be my tanking "rotation" when I'm already surrounded by enemies: Heavy Melee -> Hex Shield -> Normal Melee -> repeat

Heavy melee is obviously your bread and butter because it restores shields, but staying alive is only half of what tanking is. The other half is actually holding threat on enemies, and for that both hex shield and normal melee work wonders. You need something to fill that little pause between heavy melee cooldowns anyway, and those two abilities are a great way to do some extra AoE damage as well as ensure that any untouched enemies that are walking past you get tagged and attack you.

As a note, when I put my shield down I try and plant it behind enemies so that it doesn't block teammates. Small thing, but ultimately the shield isn't really about survival and more about AoE damage and priming enemies for tech bursts.

The final issue is target selection. Certainly anything that can sync kill is priority #1, but the key here is to not tunnel-vision a single enemy with heavy melee. I've found that one heavy melee is enough to permanently stick an enemy to you, especially if you're using hex shield and normal melee attacks to generate some AoE threat.

So after you've heavy melee'd the first nearby enemy, move on to another one. This is where tanking takes some concentration, as it's important for you to keep track of what's around you and what hasn't been HM'ed yet. It's also important because Juggs acts as a pretty good shield/barrier stripper for teammates, so rotating around and HM'ing anything with barriers or shields is a better idea than tunneling one armored enemy and trying to get the killing blow.

If you do all of the above, you can still do decent damage with Juggs. A shotgun is optimal because of the omni-blade with 50% melee damage, and the Juggernaut Shield + Strength Enhancer provide quite nice boosts to your melee damage output without really sacrificing survivability.

Thoughts? Suggestions? How do you lay the law down with your Juggs?:police:

Edit: forgot to add that you don't really want to be weighing yourself down with heavy weapons, as a) you won't use them much anyway, and B) you're going to kill the cooldown on hex shield. You want to be able to plant a new shield in between every HM cast.

Modifié par Heri, 05 mars 2013 - 08:37 .


#2
Elecbender

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Cyclonic IV is overkill.

#3
Guest_Heri_*

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As I said, Adrenaline is a perfectly good alternative if you've got good teammates. I've been in situations where I didn't, and you really need the extra shields if things aren't dying fast enough. Not even Juggs is going to survive tanking 2 Praetorians and 2 Banshees :)

#4
Grumpy Old Wizard

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Here's what I use:
narida.pytalhost.com/me3/classes/#Soldier/GethJuggernaut/LOARP//////

I tried an offensive turret with him but found I needed the shield when surrounded and heaved ranged artillary came out like ravegers and scions.  Or at other times when needing to close on those sorts of creatures or block my back on escorts or other objectives.

I've been using the lancer with an omniblade.  Yeah, I lose out some melee damage but I can kill at range when needed.

On gold I use juggernaught gear, Adrenaline III, and Strength III.  I've only done one platinum and then I swapped out Adrenaline for Cyclonic IV.

#5
Grumpy Old Wizard

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Heri wrote...

As I said, Adrenaline is a perfectly good alternative if you've got good teammates. I've been in situations where I didn't, and you really need the extra shields if things aren't dying fast enough. Not even Juggs is going to survive tanking 2 Praetorians and 2 Banshees :)


You are right of course.  I've played gold matches where I wish I'd used Cyclonic because of poor team mates.  And I would not play him as a tank on platinum without Cyclonic IV.

#6
Guest_Heri_*

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He definitely works on plat (it's all I play) without a Cyclonic mod, it just takes good teammates who know to focus fire everything you're tanking. But that often doesn't happen in pugs, or their damage output is just too low, so yeah Cyclonics are still my preferred choice for plat pugging. Plus Adrenaline isn't super useful as you should be holding a small area with him anyway. It's only really good for the deactivate objective rounds and maybe escort.

Being able to tank multiple bosses on plat simultaneously is more important for me, which is why I generally run with Cyclonics (when I have them...damn you store RNG). Another side benefit is that you don't need to be constantly heavy melee'ing to stay alive, which allows you to use hex shield and normal melee every cycle for added AoE threat/DPS.

#7
thatonebigdude

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Light melee is your friend.

Sometimes, that Phantom just gets inside your radius and you can't target her quickly enough. Or, you find yourself surrounded by mooks and just want a little breathing space. Light melee is AOE, so, tap that melee button, target, then jam on it for the force choke.

I can't tell you how many 'Nauts I've seen that haven't figured this out yet. So simple, yet so often overlooked.

EDIT: Ah cain't spel so gud.

Modifié par thatonebigdude, 01 mars 2013 - 08:59 .


#8
MichaelFinnegan

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Here's what I do. I usually tank by a mix of defensive and offensive means, for which I prefer Cyclonic III. Adrenaline mods will also work, but he probably will go down once or twice in the game.

This is something I tried out yesterday when I took him out for a spin for the first time.

#9
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Great point. To be honest a lot of my post is really common-sense stuff that probably a lot of people know already, but two things that I think get overlooked by a lot of people are (1) his normal melee and (2) the AoE from rank 4a of hex shield. When you combine those two abilities you can do some decent AoE damage, as well as ensure that as many enemies as possible are stuck to you.

#10
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MichaelFinnegan wrote...

Here's what I do. I usually tank by a mix of defensive and offensive means, for which I prefer Cyclonic III. Adrenaline mods will also work, but he probably will go down once or twice in the game.

This is something I tried out yesterday when I took him out for a spin for the first time.


Yep, that's pretty much the same way that I tank, though I don't use pulse cannon much to detonate as I prefer to let teammates do that. It's a pretty nice ability except for the cooldown when you refresh the charges, which is going to keep you from planting more shields for a while. But certainly a decent option (since hex shield isn't *that* critical) if you don't have anyone detonating for you.

#11
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Also I've found out that Pyros are probably the most dangerous enemy unit for Juggs. One reason is that their flamethrower has a longer range than his heavy melee, meaning you have to be careful about quickly closing on them. The other (main) reason is that they do so much damage if you aren't paying attention. It's easy to lose them in all the spell effects going on around you when you're tanking multiple bosses, but if you don't recognize that Pyros are shooting you, you will take massive amounts of damage.

#12
Beeno4Life

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I lol'd at Geth Turret. It restores 700 shields per restore when specced for max regen. His heavy melee regens 900/sec. Points in geth turret are wasted points.

#13
Elecbender

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Heri wrote...

As I said, Adrenaline is a perfectly good alternative if you've got good teammates. I've been in situations where I didn't, and you really need the extra shields if things aren't dying fast enough. Not even Juggs is going to survive tanking 2 Praetorians and 2 Banshees :)


I use a Reegar Carbine aka boss/enemy obliterator.

Yeah its cheap but...its in the game.

Modifié par Elecbender, 01 mars 2013 - 10:32 .


#14
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Beeno4Life wrote...

I lol'd at Geth Turret. It restores 700 shields per restore when specced for max regen. His heavy melee regens 900/sec. Points in geth turret are wasted points.


Right, which is why you don't use the turret for yourself - you toss it back where your teammates are standing as they nuke the enemies that you're tanking. I agree that it's a waste on yourself, both because the shield restore is meaningless for Juggs and also because the turret will get blown up all the time if you put it in range of yourself. Hence, using it to support your teammates.

#15
DEATHSCOPE

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I spam siege pulse. Works great.

#16
Beeno4Life

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Heri wrote...

Beeno4Life wrote...

I lol'd at Geth Turret. It restores 700 shields per restore when specced for max regen. His heavy melee regens 900/sec. Points in geth turret are wasted points.


Right, which is why you don't use the turret for yourself - you toss it back where your teammates are standing as they nuke the enemies that you're tanking. I agree that it's a waste on yourself, both because the shield restore is meaningless for Juggs and also because the turret will get blown up all the time if you put it in range of yourself. Hence, using it to support your teammates.

That's not strictly necessary though, and it takes away points from other important skills. The Jug draws a ton of aggro as is, so teammates don't need much supporting (in my experience at least).

#17
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I agree that the turret's not an amazing ability on him, but I don't think the alternatives are all that stellar either. In my build the only places to put the points if you pulled them from the turret are either rank 6 of hex shield, both evos of which are meh, and the passive tree.

It's mostly personal preference here, but I hardly ever fire my weapon when I'm tanking which makes the passive tree pointless. That's normally because I've got 3+ enemies beating on me at once, so if I'm not heavy meleeing I'm going to go down. The only time I generally shoot stuff is from a distance (which is why I like using the GPS, because it can be used long-range) in order to aggro enemies onto myself.

Juggs is the ultimate support character, so I like enhancing that further with a max shield-restore turret. But you could definitely go either way, and you're right in that if you're tanking properly, your teammates won't be taking much damage anyway. It's more for the occasional time when someone makes a mistake, or for during objective rounds.

#18
SSuicideKKing666

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This is pretty good, but I find that it's the rest of the group that needs to learn to play with the Jugg and not players as the Jugg that is the issue. A lot of groups just leave the Jugg with a ton of baddies piled up on it, the Jugg can take it for a while but he's not invincible. It's pretty aggravating when I've got a whole pile of big baddies and the team just runs to another part of the map to kill stuff alone.

#19
JChaos

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I'm seeing the opposite of the topic creator, when it comes to my preferred combo. I want something to come close, then I'll drop a hex shield to stop incoming fire and stagger whatever's charging me.

Then I'll start the drain of death, letting the hex shield take a beating while I do, and then drop a light melee to stagger everything again. Then, start over and let the new boys come to town, since that combo will drop a lot of things outright, other than bosses.

#20
pistolols

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yeah this thread pretty much explains what i do, except i don't even bother with the Turret and i never really need to use soft melee. It's just hex shield, heavy melee, hex shield, heavy melee. Works wonderfully.

-Siege Pulse fires too slow offhost, so better to spec it for the DR in mind. Though when hosting it's great to spam in the early rounds and for closing the gap in later rounds, so I do spec for Power Dmg in the passive and carry the N7Eagle with Power amp mod that i switch to when pulse shooting.

-Disciple shotgun for the Omni-blade and still %200 cooldown.

-Adrenaline module consumable along with the 15% speed increase after every melee evo makes you very speedy.

Modifié par pistolols, 02 mars 2013 - 03:48 .


#21
MetalDeggial

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People actually spend points on the Geth Turret? Why? If your allies die, you can just pick them up because you are so buff it won't matter if you are getting gangbanged in Platinum. Better go full weapons damage in passives. Also, you are better served by taking the 6A evo in Hex Shield for that extra 10% damage, and the shield won't get any larger, since you seem to complain about that.

The pulse evo in Hex Shield is pretty lame. The shock one is ok though. Melee builds are pretty nice too.

Modifié par MetalDeggial, 02 mars 2013 - 03:49 .


#22
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JChaos wrote...

I'm seeing the opposite of the topic creator, when it comes to my preferred combo. I want something to come close, then I'll drop a hex shield to stop incoming fire and stagger whatever's charging me.

Then I'll start the drain of death, letting the hex shield take a beating while I do, and then drop a light melee to stagger everything again. Then, start over and let the new boys come to town, since that combo will drop a lot of things outright, other than bosses.


The order you use the abilities in isn't super important, the crux of it is just that it's important to use normal melee and hex shield in between heavy melees.

#23
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MetalDeggial wrote...

People actually spend points on the Geth Turret? Why? If your allies die, you can just pick them up because you are so buff it won't matter if you are getting gangbanged in Platinum. Better go full weapons damage in passives. Also, you are better served by taking the 6A evo in Hex Shield for that extra 10% damage, and the shield won't get any larger, since you seem to complain about that.

The pulse evo in Hex Shield is pretty lame. The shock one is ok though. Melee builds are pretty nice too.


I just explained why in a previous post. It's not a great option, but to me it's more attractive than maxing the passive tree because I hardly ever fire my weapon. I'd rather prevent a few ill-timed deaths over the course of a match than increase my personal damage by a tiny fraction.

Also, pulse evo in hex shield isn't lame because it's extra AoE damage in between each heavy melee. When you're surrounded by enemies and that shield pulse is hitting all of them, it's a nice damage boost. Same goes for his normal melee.

#24
MetalDeggial

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Heri wrote...

MetalDeggial wrote...

People actually spend points on the Geth Turret? Why? If your allies die, you can just pick them up because you are so buff it won't matter if you are getting gangbanged in Platinum. Better go full weapons damage in passives. Also, you are better served by taking the 6A evo in Hex Shield for that extra 10% damage, and the shield won't get any larger, since you seem to complain about that.

The pulse evo in Hex Shield is pretty lame. The shock one is ok though. Melee builds are pretty nice too.


I just explained why in a previous post. It's not a great option, but to me it's more attractive than maxing the passive tree because I hardly ever fire my weapon. I'd rather prevent a few ill-timed deaths over the course of a match than increase my personal damage by a tiny fraction.

Also, pulse evo in hex shield isn't lame because it's extra AoE damage in between each heavy melee. When you're surrounded by enemies and that shield pulse is hitting all of them, it's a nice damage boost. Same goes for his normal melee.


I know you explained why, but even so, this skill is just a waste of points because it does not help the Juggernaut tank better. I used it and my partners kept scattering on the map, and with him being slow as a Swarmer, I thought I had better things to do than shooting the turret to their general area, like firing my gun. If they decide to go Rambo, they have to pick themselves up. And if you are not shooting your gun, you are gimping yourself. This kit can take a lot of punishment and you can fire your gun with impunity unless you are being staggered by a Banshee or being chased by a Brute. The Typhoon X is pretty good on him for this reason.

As for the pulse evo, it is lame. The stagger effect is crappy and the damage is mediocre. Better take some extra shields for that for Atlas tanking. You can already stagger better, faster and without cooldowns with his light melee, which is boss.

#25
JChaos

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Heri wrote...

JChaos wrote...

I'm seeing the opposite of the topic creator, when it comes to my preferred combo. I want something to come close, then I'll drop a hex shield to stop incoming fire and stagger whatever's charging me.

Then I'll start the drain of death, letting the hex shield take a beating while I do, and then drop a light melee to stagger everything again. Then, start over and let the new boys come to town, since that combo will drop a lot of things outright, other than bosses.


The order you use the abilities in isn't super important, the crux of it is just that it's important to use normal melee and hex shield in between heavy melees.


True, true. I just wanted to note that I find causing a lull in enemy fire before doing the heavy melee is an amazing boon. Using this recipe, I only went down once in my last gold game, after my team oh-so-helpfully shot down my barrier and let two pyros, a prime, and two bombers flank me. (Ow.)