58 réponses à ce sujet

[JChaos]

MetalDeggial wrote...

Heri wrote...

MetalDeggial wrote...

People actually spend points on the Geth Turret? Why? If your allies die, you can just pick them up because you are so buff it won't matter if you are getting gangbanged in Platinum. Better go full weapons damage in passives. Also, you are better served by taking the 6A evo in Hex Shield for that extra 10% damage, and the shield won't get any larger, since you seem to complain about that.

The pulse evo in Hex Shield is pretty lame. The shock one is ok though. Melee builds are pretty nice too.

I just explained why in a previous post. It's not a great option, but to me it's more attractive than maxing the passive tree because I hardly ever fire my weapon. I'd rather prevent a few ill-timed deaths over the course of a match than increase my personal damage by a tiny fraction.

Also, pulse evo in hex shield isn't lame because it's extra AoE damage in between each heavy melee. When you're surrounded by enemies and that shield pulse is hitting all of them, it's a nice damage boost. Same goes for his normal melee.

I know you explained why, but even so, this skill is just a waste of points because it does not help the Juggernaut tank better. I used it and my partners kept scattering on the map, and with him being slow as a Swarmer, I thought I had better things to do than shooting the turret to their general area, like firing my gun. If they decide to go Rambo, they have to pick themselves up. And if you are not shooting your gun, you are gimping yourself. This kit can take a lot of punishment and you can fire your gun with impunity unless you are being staggered by a Banshee or being chased by a Brute. The Typhoon X is pretty good on him for this reason.

As for the pulse evo, it is lame. The stagger effect is crappy and the damage is mediocre. Better take some extra shields for that for Atlas tanking. You can already stagger better, faster and without cooldowns with his light melee, which is boss.

The turret AND the shield damage fill one vital role. They do more damage while you're focusing your heavy melee on one enemy. They will chip away at things, and more importantly, prevent shield regen, during that time that you're tied up with one enemy, whittling away at them.

The less damage you have to deal in the long run, the easier it is to tank. And you should, never, NEVER underestimate the value of a good AoE.

[Brownfinger]

Heri wrote...

Beeno4Life wrote...

I lol'd at
Geth Turret. It restores 700 shields per restore when specced for max
regen. His heavy melee regens 900/sec. Points in geth turret are wasted
points.

Right, which is why you don't use the turret for
yourself - you toss it back where your teammates are standing as they
nuke the enemies that you're tanking. I agree that it's a waste on
yourself, both because the shield restore is meaningless for Juggs and
also because the turret will get blown up all the time if you put it in
range of yourself. Hence, using it to support your teammates.

Thank you. Great thread! I hope it educates a few, I'm seeing too many Juggernauts fall in games and that should never happen.

The Juggernaut is best utilized by sacrificing personal success in favor of the team's. When things get hairy, I toss it back and let it do its work for them. How this strategy is not blatantly obvious to everyone, I have no idea, I grasped it when first assigning points.
I don't touch the pulse, either. I leave it up to shrug off more damage.

[VaultingFrog]

Considering my Juggernaut is taller than the standard Hex shield I find it useless unless you actually upgrade it to the larger version. The damage evos on it are great you just have to know when to lay it out.

For instance, when being shot from affar by a Ravager or three it is useful to keep your arse alive till a mook gets close for you to turn to a glowing puddle.

More over a lot of complaints are directed at it due to it also blocking friendly fire but here is the thing. If you set it up long range it gives your buddies an opportunity to line up their shots and walk through the shield, unload and fade back through so they take minimal if no damage at all. Buddies, learn to use my shield to your advantage!!!

Also if somebody for some reason or other decides its ok to take a dirt nap you can toss it out to provide directional cover for a rez and give them time to recharge their own shields.

The turret on the other hand just doesnt provide enough shield regen for a Juggernaut. Generally speaking if the Juggernaut is doing its job their buddies wont need any shield regen at all (unless the Banshee tosses out a shreak of doom). Even if they do take some damage generally the Juggernaut pulls enough agro to get whatever it is off them so they can regen. The damage the turret can put out is kind of non existent as far as higher difficulties go so its not really worth much there either. More to the point because it gets targeted and destroyed so fast there just isnt much of a point to having it.

His passives on the other hand can be useful. The extra ammo you can pick up means less trips to the box for goodies and more time tanking in the field. Also when at range your able to have that little extra kick for your siege pulse to blast away at mooks before things get close.

As a 6/6/0/6/6 Juggernaut I am ungodly difficult to bring down on Plat. Pop a shield when a Banshee shows up in my face and back up a few steps to pull her through. Easy concentrated fire on her while getting protection from mooks behind who would otherwise distract your team. Also it doesnt block grenades, or at least I have never seen it block any grenades to this point. So those are useful as well. Miss with a power? Well my shield blocked it from going any further so its AoE damage still hits the crap on our side of the shield.

I might not top the boards but with out me the team would have been overrun fairly quickly.

Also @MetalDeggial:

Yes it is a waste not to shoot your weapon, however being swarmed by 2 Banshees, an Atlas and a few Phantoms leaves you little time to shoot unless your a fan of taking a dirt nap.

If your buddies are going rambo then thats their problem. They are not playing to a teams strengths and as you said its better just to let them save themselves at that point.

As for the shield evo, it is worth while but only if utilized correctly with the shield. You drag mooks through it to make them have some damage and if you got a buddy around with tech abilities it can either make them burst or be bursted. Its a decent throw down instant damage ability to have in a pinch. Dont rely on it to do everything though. It only staggers low level mooks and even then not very frequently (I think I saw it happen once for me but could have just been a nural shock from overload...). Once at the 6th evo your already looking at a shield that can absorb around 5800 damage (assuming you put in some stuff into the power damage evo's on your passives) which is plenty already.

Tanking an Atlas through a Hex shield is kind of pointless as it closes in on you and makes your shield null and void. At that point the only use it has is the shock upgrade which gives slight damage for it passing through. Even then your better off going with your heavy and light melees to bring it down. You shouldnt be looking for damage absorbsion on your Hex shield unless your up against something at range.

[VaultingFrog]

Heri wrote...

Well under controlled circumstances that's true, but the big exception to this is objective waves (which also happen to be the most important to get right) which often cause your nice setup to go to ****. It's in those cases, when things go awry, that having the shield restore turret - again, for your *teammates*, not for yourself - can be a lifesaver.

For me and the way I play it is still not worth while. On objective rounds where the team has to run places I find it more benficial to draw everything to me and keep it there. Then they have no worries about needing shield regen as everything is after me. I can still hold up against such an assault while they are free to roam the map dealing with a few mooks on their own whilest getting the objective. Also due to the design of most maps they are just not open enough to effectively send a turret across the map to heal them. And if they are then generally drawing attention in that direction is frowned upon by them in the first place.

Better to keep your focus on the trash and bosses attacking you then spending a few seconds trying to toss a turret to them. Those seconds mean life and death for a tank and if you fall then everything does go to hell.

tl:dr

Point is if your doing your job as a tank, no matter the situation your team should never have to worry about their shields regening in time. The mobs will be on you, not them so there just isnt a point to it.

[GreatBlueHeron]

Beeno4Life wrote...

I lol'd at Geth Turret. It restores 700 shields per restore when specced for max regen. His heavy melee regens 900/sec. Points in geth turret are wasted points.

Not wasted points.  That turret along with heavy melee saved my butt several times.  Spam turret and get sheild restored faster.  

[LegionofRannoch]

http://ts4.mm.bing.n...&h=144&c=7&rs=1

Moo.

$$$$tipzzzzzz$$$$

[The Sir Tendeth]

I find the shield to be useful to stay mobile. Pop it walk through it and it makes a great rear guard to keep from getting to shot up from behind.

I take the 10% weapon boost from the shield because two weapons work realy well with him. The scorpion works great to set off TE/FE, and can have the power & melee mods. And the hurricane is a fairly steady beast in his hands. Though for platinum, just a scorp, with lots of shield spam, works great.

[Maklupin77]

I think Juggernaut doesn't need Geth Turret, which should be given to Geth Engineer.

[thatonebigdude]

It's the various ways to approach this kit and its builds that is so exciting. Take the turret, for example. I wouldn't dream of a build without it, simply because of the utility to the team. Picking up a downed teammate? Pop the turret next to them for a quick shield boost. Escort? Let the turret find the bad guys for you.

It's too useful, to me, to leave behind.

[Cyanide483]

I find that the most overlooked / best tanking aide is actually a working microphone...

Too often now, I've ended up in (or have seen other Juggernauts end up in) situations where you are tanking multiple bosses but your team is off somewhere else farming mooks... then the mooks respawn next to the bosses and the dps becomes too high resulting in death.

A microphone can prevent that... I'm not exactly sure what ought to be said though however (pugs are a touchy lot).

[VaultingFrog]

Cyanide483 wrote...

I find that the most overlooked / best tanking aide is actually a working microphone...

Too often now, I've ended up in (or have seen other Juggernauts end up in) situations where you are tanking multiple bosses but your team is off somewhere else farming mooks... then the mooks respawn next to the bosses and the dps becomes too high resulting in death.

A microphone can prevent that... I'm not exactly sure what ought to be said though however (pugs are a touchy lot).

This is true. On several Plat games I have called in for a missile to even the odds a bit when it got too heavy...

2 Banshees, an Atlas, a Prime, 3 Hunters and 2 Murauders can be a bit much at one time up close. Plus I think there might have been a Phantom in there somewhere...

[Xaijin]

Elecbender wrote...

Cyclonic IV is overkill.

Not on platinum it's not.

[Brownfinger]

VaultingFrog wrote...
Generally speaking if the Juggernaut is doing its job their buddies wont need any shield regen at all

The Juggernaut can't lock down the entire battlefield, enemies pour in from all sides. He can lock down as much of it as possible, but he can't watch every spawn point and prevent his team from being flanked.

The best laid plans go right down the toilet in the higher difficulty later waves, and you have to adapt. I'll pull in Phantoms if they're coming from the other side, but the team has to be situationally aware, too. For initial surprises, the turret shield restore can buy a few precious seconds for them to react.

[pistolols]

all in all, great hex shield tips. i have seen many people claim the shield is not viable on higher difficulties, and they are mistaken. btw has anyone played Transformers: Fall of Cybertron? hex shield is nearly identical concept to the Destroyer class's Energon Shield. that is why i was able to adapt to it so quickly in using it offensively with the top 3 (a) evo's.

Modifié par pistolols, 02 mars 2013 - 11:38 .

[meatisadelicacy]

Right, which is why you don't use the turret for yourself - you toss it back where your teammates are standing as they nuke the enemies that you're tanking. I agree that it's a waste on yourself, both because the shield restore is meaningless for Juggs and also because the turret will get blown up all the time if you put it in range of yourself. Hence, using it to support your teammates.

Agreed. I like being able to toss it to my teammates because if they get in trouble, I usually can't get to them as quickly as I'd like. 

[crashsuit]

Agreed, I too like to necro old threads.

[FullSpe3D]

Agreed, I too like to necro old threads.

As opposed to necro'ing new threads?

[crashsuit]

As opposed to necro'ing new threads?

EXACTLY

[meatisadelicacy]

Agreed, I too like to necro old threads.

Let me know which threads I can post on. I'll be sure to submit my posts for your permission.

[crashsuit]

Let me know which threads I can post on. I'll be sure to submit my posts for your permission.

I don't think I'm competent enough to handle this level of responsibility, but if it helps, I like what you've done so far.