49 réponses à ce sujet

[arial]

 I wondered,


if Shepard had been of the original council races (Salarian, Asari, and Turian) instead of human, would the council have believed his/her warnings about the Reapers?

in ME1 they believed the Reapers were a myth created by Saren, and Shepard believeing in their return was due to either falling for Sarens scheme, or PTSD.

but would the council have been more trusting of Shepards warning if instead of being Alliance Spec-Ops, she was Turian/Asari/Salarian Spec-Ops?

[Taboo]

Its an interesting thought, truly.

But I'm unsure if they would mobilize a massive force on the word of one person, regardless of their status. Had they done that there would have been no need for the other two games as they would have found the Crucible plans and fired it off at the Catalyst's expense.

Alas we are bound by our faults we pitiful organics.

[Jonathan Sud]

The Council wasn't as unfair to humanity as people like Ashley, Anderson, and Udina made them out to be, so I'd say no.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

But it's a game,it's scripted.

[Taboo]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

But it's a game,it's scripted.

Just like a movie or play!

So cool!

[Strangewrex]

Ah yes, "Citadel Species", We have dismissed that theory.

Modifié par Strangewrex, 02 mars 2013 - 03:47 .

[Artifex_Imperius]

if shepard had a video cam on his omni tool the war would have been over but alas it was scripted!
ex. recorded soveriegn and saren conversation the evidence would have been irrefutable. disaster befell the universe a sequence of unfortunate events that led to tragedy.

[grey_wind]

I`m actually glad the Councillors refuse to believe in the Reapers in ME2. Despite all the fan complaints, I think it`s ludicrous that because the Citadel was attacked by one super-dreadnought, the Council is suddenly going to exclaim that a race of ancient Space Chtulus is on its way to destroy us. Sovereign being a Geth warship or a Prothean superweapon that Saren found are a hell of a lot more logical conclusions to come to given the (lack of) evidence.

However, to mitigate the fact that the Council is not preparing for the Reapers, ME2 might have been better served if it instead showed that the Council races were preparing for an invasion of the Perseus Veil (since attacking the Citadel is pretty much a declaration of war). This would both explain the Quarian`s desperation to win back their homeworld (since the Council races would bomb Rannoch to hell if they fought the Geth) and provide a nice dramatic middle ground between the Councillors refusing to believe in the Reapers and fully preparing for them.

[Ykulnu]

grey_wind wrote...

I`m actually glad the Councillors refuse to believe in the Reapers in ME2. Despite all the fan complaints, I think it`s ludicrous that because the Citadel was attacked by one super-dreadnought, the Council is suddenly going to exclaim that a race of ancient Space Chtulus is on its way to destroy us. Sovereign being a Geth warship or a Prothean superweapon that Saren found are a hell of a lot more logical conclusions to come to given the (lack of) evidence.

However, to mitigate the fact that the Council is not preparing for the Reapers, ME2 might have been better served if it instead showed that the Council races were preparing for an invasion of the Perseus Veil (since attacking the Citadel is pretty much a declaration of war). This would both explain the Quarian`s desperation to win back their homeworld (since the Council races would bomb Rannoch to hell if they fought the Geth) and provide a nice dramatic middle ground between the Councillors refusing to believe in the Reapers and fully preparing for them.

Completely correct on all points. I always tend to agree with the Council in their decisions. I think they could have shown a bit more deference by at least giving Shepard the benefit of the doubt with an investiagion, but mobilization of armadas and platoons would be highly unnecessary in their worldview.

I especially disagree with Shepards request for every council race to send all of their fleets to defend Earth. In the grand scheme of the galaxy where multiple planets are being slaughtered by a race of aliens able to wipe out the entire fleet, putting all resources into saving one planet that doesn't even really have much strategic or material positioning is ludicrous. The final battle was barely won with the Crucible and additional, non Council help. Say the Council sent only their ships (no Quarian, Geth, Krogan or Omega forces) with no backup plan or Crucible to save the day. They'd have been slaughtered. I was surprised that Anderson or Hackett even considered that a possibility.

[Absaroka]

I can imagine them being more motivated to conduct a proper investigation if nothing else, rather then just doing absolutely nothing until information was brought to their attention from a third party.

And if Eden Prime was a Turian/Asari/Salarian colony they'd almost definately take more initiative on the matter like Udina mentioned.

[tevix]

@Absaroka

Man...I was gonna say that....

Serious answer: The biggest things about the council's actions that bother me the most

1)They may not believe the reapers are real...but if you really think the geth can construct a ship like what they saw in ME1...wouldn't you be doing...SOMETHING?! It's like they went "Well, that was a geth ship and sarens dead so its all cool."

2) You can't call them out on their stupidity in 3 in any particularly satisfying fashion. This is unrelated however.

I strongly feel your race makes a big differance, however.

[Ykulnu]

tevix wrote...

I strongly feel your race makes a big differance, however.

Of course it does. If you let the old Council die to concentrate on Sovereign, the new Council doesn't want to talk to you in ME2 because of you working with Cerberus and says you let the previous Council die for human interests. Then they have an Asari Spectre working with the Shadow Broker. Udina was right, Humans were always considered second rate.

[Absaroka]

tevix wrote...

@Absaroka

Man...I was gonna say that....

Serious answer: The biggest things about the council's actions that bother me the most

1)They may not believe the reapers are real...but if you really think the geth can construct a ship like what they saw in ME1...wouldn't you be doing...SOMETHING?! It's like they went "Well, that was a geth ship and sarens dead so its all cool."

2) You can't call them out on their stupidity in 3 in any particularly satisfying fashion. This is unrelated however.

I strongly feel your race makes a big differance, however.

I always headcanon that my Shepards that chose Destroy and survived make it a point to ruin the Council's reputations after the war if they weren't killed or otherwise removed from the picture. Maybe use Liara's Shadow Broker network to orchestrate a massive smear campaign; it's easy to imagine if transcripts from his/her meetings with them in ME1 and 2 were made public they'd loose all credibility in the eyes of the galactic community.  And who knows, maybe it would lead to some reforms so that Citadel politics wouldn't be so oligarchical.

My Shepard that chose Control would probably arrange for them to be indoctrinated to the point of becoming vegetables.

[movieguyabw]

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

if shepard had a video cam on his omni tool the war would have been over but alas it was scripted!
ex. recorded soveriegn and saren conversation the evidence would have been irrefutable. disaster befell the universe a sequence of unfortunate events that led to tragedy.

There's a conversation with Ashley in the first game, IIRC, that says that their hardsuits video, or otherwise record their missions and that once they stop Saren, and show the recordings to the Council, they'll have no choice but to believe them...

[grey_wind]

movieguyabw wrote...

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

if shepard had a video cam on his omni tool the war would have been over but alas it was scripted!
ex. recorded soveriegn and saren conversation the evidence would have been irrefutable. disaster befell the universe a sequence of unfortunate events that led to tragedy.

There's a conversation with Ashley in the first game, IIRC, that says that their hardsuits video, or otherwise record their missions and that once they stop Saren, and show the recordings to the Council, they'll have no choice but to believe them...

Because nobody can fake audio-visual recordings.....

Modifié par grey_wind, 02 mars 2013 - 06:43 .

[tevix]

Couldn't hurt to try to bring SOME kind of evidence to the table though. Not like they'd have believed it.

Am I supposed to believe the council didn't manage to get it's hands on a SINGLE significant piece of Sovereign though? Cause I just can't. You could personally bring them to the dead reaper before you actually go there and they wouldn't believe it. Useless.

[movieguyabw]

grey_wind wrote...


Because nobody can fake audio-visual recordings.....

Well, it was Ashley's words, and not mine,  that the Council would have to listen to them.  Out of curiosity, though,  what cause would the Council find to assume anything recorded by military grade hard suits would've been tampered with?

Especially considering these would be coming from a Spectre, and his multi-species crew.  What?  They trust Shepard enough to run around the galaxy with limitless authority, but would assume he used photoshop and video editing software to mess with evidence?  

Modifié par movieguyabw, 02 mars 2013 - 07:11 .

[Mr.House]

The council believed the Reapers where real at the end of ME. Then ME2 came along and said lolno we need to make this game open and force players to join a faction that was minor and nothing like it's appearance in the first game so the newcomers are not confused.


The fact the Council did not believe the Reapers in ME2 and on till ME3 is extremely bad writing and just a horrible excuse to get you to not work with them or your old mates.

[Mr.House]

grey_wind wrote...

movieguyabw wrote...

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

if shepard had a video cam on his omni tool the war would have been over but alas it was scripted!
ex. recorded soveriegn and saren conversation the evidence would have been irrefutable. disaster befell the universe a sequence of unfortunate events that led to tragedy.

There's a conversation with Ashley in the first game, IIRC, that says that their hardsuits video, or otherwise record their missions and that once they stop Saren, and show the recordings to the Council, they'll have no choice but to believe them...

Because nobody can fake audio-visual recordings.....

Yet they beleive an audio file at the start of ME....

[Mr.House]

tevix wrote...

Couldn't hurt to try to bring SOME kind of evidence to the table though. Not like they'd have believed it.

Am I supposed to believe the council didn't manage to get it's hands on a SINGLE significant piece of Sovereign though? Cause I just can't. You could personally bring them to the dead reaper before you actually go there and they wouldn't believe it. Useless.

Conversation with Sovie, Vigil, both conversations with Saren, the vision, two prothean beacons that had the same vision premise, Sovie's design and how he looks nothing like a geth ship, Andersons word, hacketts word, Sovies powers, Shiala(if alive) Thana (if alive) all of the crew on Shepards ship and audio and video from Shepards armor. That's too much evidence to ignore. The thing is, the council did beleive Shepard at the end of ME.This is the issue. They beelive and vow to help Shepard, then ME2 comes and it's like NOPE. Depsite all the evidence and vowing to help Shepard defeat the Reapers.

Modifié par Mr.House, 02 mars 2013 - 07:09 .

[Jadebaby]

I just don't understand why Tevos didn't meld with Shepard like Shiala or Liara did.. It's like "hello!"

[movieguyabw]

Jadebaby wrote...

I just don't understand why Tevos didn't meld with Shepard like Shiala or Liara did.. It's like "hello!"

To be fair, they only thought the warning from the beacon was a dream of Shepard's.  At least, early on in the game.  So they really wouldn't have seen a use for melding minds with Shepard - Tevos likely figured all she would see was his 'dream', which isn't evidence.

As for everything else...  yeah...  still saying hard suits, and multiple eye witness accounts.

[tevix]

Am I remembering wrong?

I thought the council just thanks you for efforts against "Sovereign and the geth". It's anderson or Udina that talk about driving the reapers back.

Unless I'm wrong...they never TECHNICALLY admit to the reaper thing.

[Absaroka]

^ 

I don't think your wrong.  In hindsight, one could interpret their lack of condescension in that scene as humoring Shepard (it's the least they could do after the humans saved them, right?)

[Mr.House]

tevix wrote...

Am I remembering wrong?

I thought the council just thanks you for efforts against "Sovereign and the geth". It's anderson or Udina that talk about driving the reapers back.

Unless I'm wrong...they never TECHNICALLY admit to the reaper thing.

You where saying?

Also note they never said Shepard saved peopel from Saren and the geth, they said Sovereign and the geth, if they did not beleive the Reapers exissted(depsite saying later on they do beleive the reapers are real) why are they saying Sovereign? If they don't beleive the reapers, then Sovereign is just a ship, nothing more. They even say "Sovereigns defeat, not Sarens. So again, why say Sovereign, and never mention Saren? It's because before ME2 came and Mac and Drew retcon this, the council did believe.

Modifié par Mr.House, 02 mars 2013 - 08:08 .