203 réponses à ce sujet

[Zero132132]

I do a 6/6/4/6/4 build.

I like using Dark Sphere to set up multiple BEs and firing seeker swarms. Won't bother to detonate it much of the time, and when I do, it's often as an 'oh teh noes, I'm surrounded!' thing than anything else, so I prefer radius to stagger stuff so I can reposition. The 4 ranks in DC would have been 3, but a longer duration is more useful than a fifth rank in fitness. I use it almost exclusively for the sake of warp ammo, although if I intend to detonate Dark Sphere, I chuck out a DC as well, since you can still detonate it while on cooldown and there's no real reason not to. Exception for if I need more swarms; then I'll use that first instead.

This might not be the right way to go. Been working for me so far, though, so I'm sticking with it.

[Colonel Sheppard]

I'm struggling to find an awesome build with this guy. I love his powers, but his cool down are so long! Right now, I am running 5/5/6/6/4, all power build and using a Hurricane and my new favorite sidearm, the Suppressor. I know Dark Sphere is awesome, but I only use it once in awhile against bosses, mainly because of the cool down. Right now, the best build I found for him is an all weapons build.

[OblivionDawn]

6/6/6/6/0

Use your Seeker Swarms as your protection, and proceed to obliterate groups of enemies with insane DoT and BEs.

[NuclearTech76]

http://narida.pytalh...daptiveWarAmp5/

I'd recommend that. You give up a little DR on swarms by not having the extra one and give a little up on the BEs but he can dish out some insane DOT and even the watered down BE finishes most anything off. Dark Channel is just too good IMO not to fully spec into as is Dark Sphere.

[NuclearTech76]

OblivionDawn wrote...

6/6/6/6/0

Use your Seeker Swarms as your protection, and proceed to obliterate groups of enemies with insane DoT and BEs.

You do realize the effectiveness of DR is predicated by your shields and whether you're in hard cover or out of it right?

Not saying your build is wrong but DR as protection is really not that effective unless I'm mistaken.

[himegoto]

OblivionDawn wrote...

6/6/6/6/0

Use your Seeker Swarms as your protection, and proceed to obliterate groups of enemies with insane DoT and BEs.

Yes the insane DOT, which does almost 800 damage over 9 seconds and almost killing a husk in gold.
Also the insane BEs, which without BE evos cannot kill any foot soldiers in gold.

[Original Twigman]

himegoto wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

6/6/6/6/0

Use your Seeker Swarms as your protection, and proceed to obliterate groups of enemies with insane DoT and BEs.

Yes the insane DOT, which does almost 800 damage over 9 seconds and almost killing a husk in gold.

lol

Yeah, the DOT is a bit... meh....

I will try a DOT build though, just for lulz.... It will be very effective against banshee's that are stuck

[NuclearTech76]

himegoto wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

6/6/6/6/0

Use your Seeker Swarms as your protection, and proceed to obliterate groups of enemies with insane DoT and BEs.

Yes the insane DOT, which does almost 800 damage over 9 seconds and almost killing a husk in gold.
Also the insane BEs, which without BE evos cannot kill any foot soldiers in gold.

Sphere DOT+Dark Channel's DOT is pretty good actually just for DOT especially against barriers and armor. That's not figuring in the damage from exploding the sphere either. The DOT is pretty nice on the character.

[Dark Tlaloc]

Yeah, DoT can be nice if you lay it right at the feet of a boss, especially when they’re locked in with a Geth Juggernaut.

[unclemonster]

Heri wrote...


BE strength depends only on power evos that increase explosion damage. Power ranks only affect tech explosions, not biotics.

I think this is false
IMO power ranks affect ALL combo 'splosions not just tech

[NuclearTech76]

unclemonster wrote...

Heri wrote...


BE strength depends only on power evos that increase explosion damage. Power ranks only affect tech explosions, not biotics.

I think this is false
IMO power ranks affect ALL combo 'splosions not just tech

It is false. The rank of the detonator and primer effect the combo explosion on tech or biotic combos. The individual damage of those respective powers can be changed but the combo explosion is determined by power rank. Ammo powers count as a level one primer.

[himegoto]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

himegoto wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

6/6/6/6/0

Use your Seeker Swarms as your protection, and proceed to obliterate groups of enemies with insane DoT and BEs.

Yes the insane DOT, which does almost 800 damage over 9 seconds and almost killing a husk in gold.
Also the insane BEs, which without BE evos cannot kill any foot soldiers in gold.

Sphere DOT+Dark Channel's DOT is pretty good actually just for DOT especially against barriers and armor. That's not figuring in the damage from exploding the sphere either. The DOT is pretty nice on the character.

DC has good DOT thats a known.
You were talking about DS's DOT. It is ****.

I don't know what game you are playing if you claim it is good.

[thearbiter1337]

6/6/0/6/6 is what i do

Spam DS and use Seeker swarms to donate

Full Ascension mode

**** DC

[Zero132132]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

unclemonster wrote...

Heri wrote...

BE strength depends only on power evos that increase explosion damage. Power ranks only affect tech explosions, not biotics.

I think this is false
IMO power ranks affect ALL combo 'splosions not just tech

It is false. The rank of the detonator and primer effect the combo explosion on tech or biotic combos. The individual damage of those respective powers can be changed but the combo explosion is determined by power rank. Ammo powers count as a level one primer.

Ammo powers count as a level 0 primer, actually. Weird, right?

[neoskeptic2]

I'll try this a little later, but can you detonate the DS while on cooldown? Because it may be more efficient to throw out the DS, DC an enemy in front of you, then detonate the DS. All the while you are shooting things.

I personally don't like throwing out seeker swarms to detonate BEs. Dunno why.

[KalilKareem]

Finally found a build I really like and perform well with.

0/6/6/6/6. All weapon damage on passive. Collector sniper rifle, heavy barrel, warp rounds, sniper rifle amp. Dark channel and headshot all the things. Very nice tbh.

[himegoto]

KalilKareem wrote...

Finally found a build I really like and perform well with.

0/6/6/6/6. All weapon damage on passive. Collector sniper rifle, heavy barrel, warp rounds, sniper rifle amp. Dark channel and headshot all the things. Very nice tbh.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/16071748

The same build I concluded on this silly kit 4 days ago.
DS is useless in gold+ games.

[NuclearTech76]

himegoto wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

himegoto wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

6/6/6/6/0

Use your Seeker Swarms as your protection, and proceed to obliterate groups of enemies with insane DoT and BEs.

Yes the insane DOT, which does almost 800 damage over 9 seconds and almost killing a husk in gold.
Also the insane BEs, which without BE evos cannot kill any foot soldiers in gold.

Sphere DOT+Dark Channel's DOT is pretty good actually just for DOT especially against barriers and armor. That's not figuring in the damage from exploding the sphere either. The DOT is pretty nice on the character.

DC has good DOT thats a known.
You were talking about DS's DOT. It is ****.

I don't know what game you are playing if you claim it is good.

The DOT hits up to three targets I believe which is fairly decent when Dark Channel is ripping through them with damage on top of the DOT of DS. The explosion of the sphere does as much damage as a lift grenade and the targets are still primed for warp ammo damage or to be BE by seeker swarms which finish everything else off. So yeah if you're just using the sphere for it's DOT and that's all it is trash but you're oversimplifing the power.

[Thrasher91604]

Then you have to wait for the long DS cool down if you explode. And if you're out of swarms, the same long cooldown applies. Situational to explode when you know you've got time to regain cooldowns.

[lightswitch]

neoskeptic2 wrote...

I'll try this a little later, but can you detonate the DS while on cooldown? Because it may be more efficient to throw out the DS, DC an enemy in front of you, then detonate the DS. All the while you are shooting things.

I personally don't like throwing out seeker swarms to detonate BEs. Dunno why.

Yes, this works, detonating DS will cancel the cooldown from DC and from SS. It effectively makes him a one cooldown kit. The only time I don't throw DC before before detonating DS is to refill my Seeker Swarms. Sometimes I'll even wait a second to detonate DS in order to cast DC at a second target so that I can have two of them out there killing things passively while I detonate things with the swarms...

So far this is the build I've found to be the most effective. Use warp rounds of course.

Edit: also, off-host you can normally cancel the Seeker Swarm animation with Dark Channel. It's almost certainly a glitch, you still get the cooldown from SS so it's like a free cast of DC, but essentially you get two powers for free if you CD cancel with a DS det...

Modifié par lightswitch, 04 mars 2013 - 11:51 .

[heybigmoney]

himegoto wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

He's actually a very good boss killer.  His dmg passives provide multiplicative weapon bonuses to ppr/csr.  With warp ammo he's capable of infiltrator levels of weapon dmg.  

Most ppl haven't realized this yet, because they're obsessed with cooldowns and running ridiculous caster setups like csmg/acolyte.  He really is a phenomenal weapons platform with good aoe abilities.

On the other hand, some people like to play adepts as actual casters instead of as shooty classes.  Imagine that!!

And yeah, sadly his powers make him a poor boss killer if you are playing him as a caster instead of weapon-centric.    Shooty classes can melt bosses in 3 seconds flat.  The CA will take considerably longer.

Well, there's nothing wrong with that playstyle if you prefer it.  I'm just saying that he's a great boss killer.  He's better than the other adepts at this actually because he is less penalized for cooldowns and his powers have very long durations in addition to 9m aoe.  His cooldowns are going to be long no matter what you use, may as well take something thats worth it like a csr/ppr.

I apologize if I came off as assuming many of you were ignorant of this.  But the multiple threads about buffing him and how he is worse than the mid tier adepts has brought my ****** to a boil.  Ppl are only claiming this because they are playing one particular style.

TLDR:  He's the best shooty adept of all the adepts.  Alot of ppl aren't going to like this tho.

With all things considered he is still one of the worse adepts in game IMO. As for boss killing, he is also one of the worse one if we are comparing others who also got an unblockable primer power (DC / DS / Reave)

I was speccing him 06666 after going a 66365 at first. Both builds maxed out gun damage passive with the csmg X.
In case I was missing something about the DS or biased I gave it another run with a 66365, and this time trying out on power damage in passives. Now I am absolutely sure that this kit sucks ass as an power damage focused adept class. 

I'm not just looking at the stats on paper but overall effectiveness in field to came up with that conclusion.
So I agree with you on taking gun passives and using a csmg or a car. Not with a ppr because of the long cook up time everything when you needed to throw out a SS to BE save a teammate or something.
In fact, the build I'm suggesting for him is still 06666 with maxed fitness and gun passives. It's a okay mix of DPS with warp rounds and survivibility. I can top the score for arguments sake with no infiltrators around and rarely go down in a platinum match with that build. However - 

Drell adept (reave, nice gun passives, fast mobility and nades), Fury (DC, constant BE bombing stepping in and out of AF with shield regain), AHI (better DOT from DC and bigger BE potential with warp), AJA (reave + sphere BE combo and tankiness) are all far superior boss killers than this CA.

Even the old school adept kits without unblockable primers such as the HA, AA are better than him in a biotic team against bosses.
All of that places the CA in an awkward position. He is both "okay" as a team biotic player or a self BE-er. He does prime everything on the way with his DS. But the DOT and BE is just pathetic. None of which could even kill a husk in platinum (a DS -> swarm BE combo)
Unless you split yourself like a ninja or everyone in your team is using warp / incendiary rounds hitting the same area, DS as a power it is not practically going to be much use. People on bsn still like to crunch numbers to me on the DS but I've yet to see one use it without going down a lot or hiding in the back casting whereas time better spent with DC prime and shooting with warped csmg and maybe a few BE to finish the mooks off.

Know that I'm not disagreeing with you on using guns with this kit. I'm in fact disagreeing with everyone going into power passives and DS.
The fact remains as I just mentioned he doesn't shine as either a self detonater nor a team detonater nor a DPSer against bosses with warped rounds.

He freaking needs help.
(Shortening the cooldowns on DS, buffing its DOT and explosion damage. Also reworking the whole silly ascension mode would be a start.)

Your 06666 build is basically an asari huntress without stealth.  Except the huntress has superior DC power dmg, warp debuffs, and stronger detonations.  You cannot skip dark sphere on this class, his aoe completely outclasses the huntress.  You can't tell DC to switch to a husk or the 3 marauders rushing your face on the huntress, meanwhile dark sphere has practically obliterated all 4 of them and they are all primed for warp ammo bonus or seeker swarm cleanup.  

Dark sphere has a learning curve.  You need to accurately assess the cost and benefit in a small time frame of each detonation.  If you are getting caught with your pants down too often during DS's cooldown, then you made mistimed detonation.  This is going to take some practice, or you could just use the geth scanner gear which is probably the best gear mod for newer collector players.  It is going to guarantee that each use of sphere is efficient.  Once you get the hang of it you can switch to a regular dmg mod for even more dps if you choose.

1.  The drell adept is the best adept in the game, but in order to have weapon dmg as good as the collector he needs to spec into them forgoing the power dmg passives.  The very ones that make him the best aoe adept in the game.  Also, the high powered beam weapons csr and ppr, are both bugged on him making them unusable.

2.    The fury can't use weapons as well as the collector because you cannot control which target DC is going to jump to.  You have to manually recast every time if DC decides to jump to a husk instead of a dangerous enemy to gain your weapon dmg bonus.  Sphere primes everything in a 9m aoe.

3.  AJA has completely nonexistant aoe in comparison to the collector, as well as lower weapon dmg passives.  And in order to gain biotic sphere's advantages, you have to actually cast them on the target consistently.  The shortcomings of bubble have been extremely well documented.  If you have to flank a prime and get within melee range to get off the bubble, the collector has probably already killed him by attacking as soon as he sees him. 

The other adepts have dodgeable powers, as well as being completely uncastable on banshees and praetorians for long periods of time.  They also all have lower weapon dmg passives.  And their powers only affect a single target at a time, so after I've killed one enemy, I have to manually recast for every other enemy.  The collector casts dark sphere once, hits them all, and enjoys that weapon dmg bonus without having to interrupt his weapons fire. 

Versaitility is his greatest strength.  As well as shooting.  Some biotics do aoe better, some do single target better, but none of them do it all like this guy does.

Try out a 65663 build with the csr or ppr.  Some ppl also like the csmg, but you'll have to take extended mag and high velocity barrel.  No room for power amp attachment.

[lightswitch]

Per Eric Fagnan: "...I just checked the code and Dark Sphere does not detonate any combos. It only primes biotic combos."

So that's that then. Guess I should PM Cyonan.

[EternalSeekerX9]

lightswitch wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

I've never been able to detonate using Dark sphere, and I've been using DC to hit targets before launching and detonating a Dark matter implosion. 

We really need to get some clarification on this. Which dev should we PM?

I've played over 50 games with this guy and I never detonated anything with Dark Sphere as a detonator and if it could... wouldn't that be kinda broken?

In comparison to what? He still wouldn't be a top tier character. People keep throwing around that 5000 damage number but 5000 damage in a 2.5m radius (or whatever the radius on that build is exactly) with a 7-10 second cooldown is just not that good. Two Claymore shots do over 5000+ damage, <5 sec of firing a Harrier or Hurricane does more damage, with a cryo ammo any kit with incinerate can do more damage to armor in the same amount of time. A Human Sentinel could set off at least two BEs in that time for 8000+ damage to armor and 4000 damage to health and shields, a Drell Adept could spam the Reave-Clusters combo at least three or four times for WAAY more than 5000 damage, over a much bigger radius.

Keep in mind a DC-DS combo would only add 835 damage to shields and health, and 1670 to armor and barriers (I didn't double check those numbers, but I'm pretty sure; they are certainly in the correct ballpark). So it's not as if would be even close to doubling the damage output of DS, even if you take radius in evo 6. Frankly, this guy needs the extra damage output.

Finally, how did u calculate thoes numbers. As well I haven't unlocked him yet. And if you are replying to me, I wasn't making a statement, I was just questioning if detonation damage can bypass DR of health, sheild, barrier and armor and was also wondering why people say DS isn't good, damage looks nice, not the best, but nice. And the 8000+ damage figure you gave, is that a scaled figure? how does scaling work? 

Im confused 

[Zero132132]

lightswitch wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

I've never been able to detonate using Dark sphere, and I've been using DC to hit targets before launching and detonating a Dark matter implosion. 

We really need to get some clarification on this. Which dev should we PM?

I've played over 50 games with this guy and I never detonated anything with Dark Sphere as a detonator and if it could... wouldn't that be kinda broken?

In comparison to what? He still wouldn't be a top tier character. People keep throwing around that 5000 damage number but 5000 damage in a 2.5m radius (or whatever the radius on that build is exactly) with a 7-10 second cooldown is just not that good. Two Claymore shots do over 5000+ damage, <5 sec of firing a Harrier or Hurricane does more damage, with a cryo ammo any kit with incinerate can do more damage to armor in the same amount of time. A Human Sentinel could set off at least two BEs in that time for 8000+ damage to armor and 4000 damage to health and shields, a Drell Adept could spam the Reave-Clusters combo at least three or four times for WAAY more than 5000 damage, over a much bigger radius.

Keep in mind a DC-DS combo would only add 835 damage to shields and health, and 1670 to armor and barriers (I didn't double check those numbers, but I'm pretty sure; they are certainly in the correct ballpark). So it's not as if would be even close to doubling the damage output of DS, even if you take radius in evo 6. Frankly, this guy needs the extra damage output.

Including the DoT ticks, it caps at 6,215 with the power boost attachments and all proper gear/amps. According to others here, it hits up to 3 targets, so that's up to 18,645 over 7 seconds. It also primes everything within the range of that explosion, and you can detonate while on cooldown, so you can throw it out, set up some seeker swarms, detonate it, and then follow up with a few BEs. You can also just use that priming to work with your weapons if you have warp ammo.

Personally, I don't take that evo, so with all proper gear and amps and ****, I max out at 5,335 per detonation per target over a 9 second period of time, apparently a cap of 16,005 with 3 targets, but it's over a radius of 9 meters, and it primes everything so with my Collector SMG, everything dies pretty quickly.

One of the most important things to remember here, though, is that you're comparing it to the Claymore. You can actually use a Claymore with him, so you'd get both sets of damage. You can use any weapon with him. You have no damned reason at all NOT to use a weapon with him. The power itself isn't the only source of damage.

Not saying it's ZOMGamazing, but it's damned good.

[lightswitch]

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

I've never been able to detonate using Dark sphere, and I've been using DC to hit targets before launching and detonating a Dark matter implosion. 

We really need to get some clarification on this. Which dev should we PM?

I've played over 50 games with this guy and I never detonated anything with Dark Sphere as a detonator and if it could... wouldn't that be kinda broken?

In comparison to what? He still wouldn't be a top tier character. People keep throwing around that 5000 damage number but 5000 damage in a 2.5m radius (or whatever the radius on that build is exactly) with a 7-10 second cooldown is just not that good. Two Claymore shots do over 5000+ damage, <5 sec of firing a Harrier or Hurricane does more damage, with a cryo ammo any kit with incinerate can do more damage to armor in the same amount of time. A Human Sentinel could set off at least two BEs in that time for 8000+ damage to armor and 4000 damage to health and shields, a Drell Adept could spam the Reave-Clusters combo at least three or four times for WAAY more than 5000 damage, over a much bigger radius.

Keep in mind a DC-DS combo would only add 835 damage to shields and health, and 1670 to armor and barriers (I didn't double check those numbers, but I'm pretty sure; they are certainly in the correct ballpark). So it's not as if would be even close to doubling the damage output of DS, even if you take radius in evo 6. Frankly, this guy needs the extra damage output.

Finally, how did u calculate thoes numbers. As well I haven't unlocked him yet. And if you are replying to me, I wasn't making a statement, I was just questioning if detonation damage can bypass DR of health, sheild, barrier and armor and was also wondering why people say DS isn't good, damage looks nice, not the best, but nice. And the 8000+ damage figure you gave, is that a scaled figure? how does scaling work? 

Im confused 

Uhh, no I was replying to Saints. And I'm not saying DS isn't good, I like most of the things about the power, but the slow cooldown and travel speeds (you can outrun it once you cast it) means it's impossible to detonate frequently or efficiently, which makes it inferior to the good AoE powers.

As for how I got those numbers, combo damage is calculated using a formula explained in a couple threads which I actually already linked on page 2 of this thread. The 8000+ figure is ballpark, I just remember that the warp-throw BE does slightly over 4000 damage (to armor and barriers). And since the cooldown on Warp is 3.x seconds and throw is 1.x seconds, it's easy to figure the HSent should be able to set off two in less than 10 seconds.

Modifié par lightswitch, 05 mars 2013 - 01:42 .