41 réponses à ce sujet

[Demoiselle]

 Just wondering, seeing as I'm about to go into my first pt of ME3 having done that. It'd seem a bit odd if no-one mentioned it, or if Sheps relationship with Tali was still just as friendly.

[xBUMMx]

Doesn't this mean she can't be a squaddie, or is that just if you withheld the evidence but didn't pass the Speech check?

[Demoiselle]

I meant gave the evidence over, losing her loyalty.

Does that change anything in ME3?

[Uncle Jo]

Demoiselle wrote...

I meant gave the evidence over, losing her loyalty.

Does that change anything in ME3?

She got exiled and replaced by Admiral Raan, I think.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 02 mars 2013 - 03:13 .

[xBUMMx]

Demoiselle wrote...

I meant gave the evidence over, losing her loyalty.

Does that change anything in ME3?

I know what you meant. It's just that the mission can end in three ways, and one debunks Tali as a ME3 squaddie because she doesn't become an admiral, but that's probably just the other one. I honestly don't know. If she survived the Suicide Mission too she'll probably be there, but I can't tell how she'll feel.

[xBUMMx]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Demoiselle wrote...

I meant gave the evidence over, losing her loyalty.

Does that change anything in ME3?

She got exiled and replaced by Admiral Raan, I think.

That's what I thought at first, but isn't that just if you can't defend her with the evidence or Charm/Intimidate?

[Demoiselle]

xBUMMx wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Demoiselle wrote...

I meant gave the evidence over, losing her loyalty.

Does that change anything in ME3?

She got exiled and replaced by Admiral Raan, I think.

That's what I thought at first, but isn't that just if you can't defend her with the evidence or Charm/Intimidate?

She only gets exiled in ME2 if you present no evidence, dont charm or intimidate or rally the crowd. I gave the evidence and she was exonerated, but lost her loyalty.

[Gewehr_fr]

She apologises for acting so rude towards Shepard in me2, says it was the right choice otherwise she wouldnt be able to influence the admiralty, and that she was too willing to sacrifice herself. That's when you call her in your cabin.

[amxstyle]

If I remember correctly, I saw a video of this once, she will still come back and have some unique dialogue forgiving you about the things that she said to you after the trial. What happens after, I am not sure since I have never done a playthrough of this type.

[Dean_the_Young]

amxstyle wrote...

If I remember correctly, I saw a video of this once, she will still come back and have some unique dialogue forgiving you about the things that she said to you after the trial. What happens after, I am not sure since I have never done a playthrough of this type.

That's pretty much it.

There might be some reduction in war assets, or it might make it slightly more difficult to make Geth-Quarian peace, but otherwise it gets swept under the rug pretty quickly.

[Iakus]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
That's pretty much it.

There might be some reduction in war assets, or it might make it slightly more difficult to make Geth-Quarian peace, but otherwise it gets swept under the rug pretty quickly.

I don't think it's any harder or easier to get geth-quarian peace this way (not 100% certain though)  I do know getting her exiled counts against you.

Modifié par iakus, 02 mars 2013 - 04:02 .

[Demoiselle]

Godammit Tali, how much of a machoist are you?

I can refuse to give you the evidence in ME1, support Cerberus in ME2 and get your father exiled and you STILL insist on being a squaddie no matter what?

Seriously, by ME3 do no squaddies care how badly you treated them in the past two games?

[Wulfram]

iakus wrote...

I don't think it's any harder or easier to get geth-quarian peace this way (not 100% certain though)  I do know getting her exiled counts against you.

It's harder because no Tali loyalty means no Tali/Legion reconciliation.

As I discovered, if you also didn't destroy the Geth heretic then you're out of luck.

Modifié par Wulfram, 02 mars 2013 - 04:06 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Demoiselle wrote...

Godammit Tali, how much of a machoist are you?

I can refuse to give you the evidence in ME1, support Cerberus in ME2 and get your father exiled and you STILL insist on being a squaddie no matter what?

Seriously, by ME3 do no squaddies care how badly you treated them in the past two games?

......why? Just why? The only squad mates I get rid of are the two Krogans in ME1 and ME2 due to a combination of betrayal, needing to ensure the Krogan don't get cured/stronger, optimizing war assets and controlling outcomes but I set them up to die rather than keep them around.

If you let him live past ME1(which I see no reason to anymore), Wrex is none too happy in ME3 if you destroyed Maelon's data in ME2 and then if you don't cure the genophage he turns traitor again, for the second time in three games, and tries to kill you. <_<

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 02 mars 2013 - 04:16 .

[MEGoWH777]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

......why? Just why? The only squad mates I get rid of are the two Krogans in ME1 and ME2 due to a combination of betrayal, needing to ensure the Krogan don't get cured/stronger, optimizing war assets and controlling outcomes but I set them up to die rather than keep them around.

If you let him live past ME1(which I see no reason to anymore), Wrex is none too happy in ME3 if you destroyed Maelon's data in ME2 and then if you don't cure the genophage he turns traitor again, for the second time in three games, and tries to kill you. <_<

It's not really turning traitor, when not only did you betray him, but also doomed his species.

Modifié par MEGoWH777, 02 mars 2013 - 04:18 .

[Demoiselle]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Demoiselle wrote...

Godammit Tali, how much of a machoist are you?

I can refuse to give you the evidence in ME1, support Cerberus in ME2 and get your father exiled and you STILL insist on being a squaddie no matter what?

Seriously, by ME3 do no squaddies care how badly you treated them in the past two games?

......why? Just why? The only squad mates I get rid of are the two Krogans in ME1 and ME2 due to a combination of betrayal, needing to ensure the Krogan don't get cured/stronger, optimizing war assets and controlling outcomes but I set them up to die rather than keep them around.

If you let him live past ME1(which I see no reason to anymore), Wrex is none too happy in ME3 if you destroyed Maelon's data in ME2 and then if you don't cure the genophage he turns traitor again, for the second time in three games, and tries to kill you. <_<

Why? Replay value. I like playthroughs of RPGs where my companions hate me, and playthroughs where we're best buddies.

But yeah, the game does a great job of keeping track fo your current relationship with Wrex.

[Darth_Trethon]

MEGoWH777 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

......why? Just why? The only squad mates I get rid of are the two Krogans in ME1 and ME2 due to a combination of betrayal, needing to ensure the Krogan don't get cured/stronger, optimizing war assets and controlling outcomes but I set them up to die rather than keep them around.

If you let him live past ME1(which I see no reason to anymore), Wrex is none too happy in ME3 if you destroyed Maelon's data in ME2 and then if you don't cure the genophage he turns traitor again, for the second time in three games, and tries to kill you. <_<

It's not really turning traitor, when not only did you betray him, but also doomed his species.

The Krogan are the only known sapient species to have nuked themselves into oblivion and survived. Then they started attacking all other organic races without provocation and drove asteroids into their colonnies untill they drove everyone to despair....as a last resource the council races chose to use the genophage. Yet the only thing the krogan understand is how they were wronged, not the billions of innocents they murdered or the fact that the council races had few options in the face of a very possible extinction.....even Wrex does not care to understand any of it. And the Krogan learned nothing from any of it, failed to learn anything after they nuked themselves back to the stone age too....they are still as violent and ignorant as ever.....do you really want their billions of females each making up to a tousand babies per year? They reproduce too fast, learn nothing and do nothing other than destroy....they've had enough chances so I'm not taking any chance that they will start trouble for the rest of the organic races when they are weakened and with minimal defenses after the reaper war.

I didn't betray anyone, I fulfilled my duty as a spectre to provide the gallaxy the war assets it needs to destroy the reapers and ensured nothing would threaten the peace after the reaper war. I expected Wrex to understand I had no alternative in the matter....plus saving Mordin was a nice bonus.

[Xellith]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

MEGoWH777 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

......why? Just why? The only squad mates I get rid of are the two Krogans in ME1 and ME2 due to a combination of betrayal, needing to ensure the Krogan don't get cured/stronger, optimizing war assets and controlling outcomes but I set them up to die rather than keep them around.

If you let him live past ME1(which I see no reason to anymore), Wrex is none too happy in ME3 if you destroyed Maelon's data in ME2 and then if you don't cure the genophage he turns traitor again, for the second time in three games, and tries to kill you. <_<

It's not really turning traitor, when not only did you betray him, but also doomed his species.

The Krogan are the only known sapient species to have nuked themselves into oblivion and survived. Then they started attacking all other organic races without provocation and drove asteroids into their colonnies untill they drove everyone to despair....as a last resource the council races chose to use the genophage. Yet the only thing the krogan understand is how they were wronged, not the billions of innocents they murdered or the fact that the council races had few options in the face of a very possible extinction.....even Wrex does not care to understand any of it. And the Krogan learned nothing from any of it, failed to learn anything after they nuked themselves back to the stone age too....they are still as violent and ignorant as ever.....do you really want their billions of females each making up to a tousand babies per year? They reproduce too fast, learn nothing and do nothing other than destroy....they've had enough chances so I'm not taking any chance that they will start trouble for the rest of the organic races when they are weakened and with minimal defenses after the reaper war.

I didn't betray anyone, I fulfilled my duty as a spectre to provide the gallaxy the war assets it needs to destroy the reapers and ensured nothing would threaten the peace after the reaper war. I expected Wrex to understand I had no alternative in the matter....plus saving Mordin was a nice bonus.

The Krogan were once peaceful.  The blood rage was something that was rare.  Very rare.  After the nuclear apocalypse on their homeworld, natural selection selected those who could survive the harsh world to continue on.  The trait of blood rage spreading through the population.   They were still tribal and yet there was some stability in their world.

Then the Salarians arrived.  They "uplifted" the Krogan for 1 reason.  To fight.  The council races needed soldiers to combat the Rachni who were winning the war.  Without Krogan support then the war would be lost and the galaxy put at risk.

And so the Krogan were the shock troops and cannon fodder against the Rachni.  World after world they fought tooth and nail.  Eventually the Krogan pushed the Rachni back to their homeworld where they, for all intents and purposes, made the Rachni extinct.

The Krogan knew only war.

The council gifted the Krogan many worlds for their part in the war effort.  But combined with a high birth rate, long lifespan and knowing only war and the need to kill or die trying, the Krogan rebellions started.  "The created turned against their creators."  The krogan tools performing the task they were uplifted to do.

So dont say that the krogan "Attacked without provocation".  The krogan were only uplifted to fight.  And fight they did.

If they were uplifted and shown the proper way then the whole war would have been avoided.  Does that excuse what they did?  No.  Not at all.  But dont act like the council races didnt put themselves in the position they were in.  The council unleashed the rachni.  The council uplifted the krogan.  The council used the Krogan as tools.

 And so the genophage was unleashed.  The krogans neutered.  Their species knowing only war.  Culturally deficient their entire species began to die off.

At no point did the council attempt to culturally nuture the Krogan to make them peaceful.  They instead nutured their blood rage.  Because that served their purpose.

The only "chance" that the Krogan ever got was with the genophage cure.  And that is entirely dependant on whether or not they are ready.  With Wreav?  No.  He knows only to do what he was made to do.  To fight.  Wrex and Eve?  I see a bright future for the krogan.  A future with their culture restored.  A future free of misery and dispair.

So yeah.  I protect the galaxy by curing the Krogan.  Not because they are a danger.  But because they are part of the galaxy.  And they need protecting too.

Modifié par Xellith, 02 mars 2013 - 04:51 .

[OneMore1968]

I.m just doing a playthrough with these variables. About three missions away. But I do know from exp that the only way to get the Geth and Quarians requires some very specific circumstances during ME2:
Keep Tali alive in ME2
Kill the heretics - "A House Divided" and keep Legion alive in ME2
Complete "Geth Fighter Squadrons" mission ME3

Providing the above are true you then get additional points for these events:
Complete "Rannoch: Admiral Koris" - 1 point
Save him as well during this mission - 1 point
Save Tali from exile in ME2 - 2 points
Destroy the heretic geth in "A House Divided" ME2 - 2 points
Broker peace between Legion and Tali in ME2 - 1 point

If you complete the required plot elements and have at least 5 points you can then persuade the quarian fleet to stand down using Paragon. This is difficult as you also require 4 bars of Reputation points. In about 8 playthroughs, I've managed this twice.

[Darth_Trethon]

Xellith wrote...

The Krogan were once peaceful.  The blood rage was something that was rare.  Very rare.  After the nuclear apocalypse on their homeworld, natural selection selected those who could survive the harsh world to continue on.  The trait of blood rage spreading through the population.   They were still tribal and yet there was some stability in their world.

Then the Salarians arrived.  They "uplifted" the Krogan for 1 reason.  To fight.  The council races needed soldiers to combat the Rachni who were winning the war.  Without Krogan support then the war would be lost and the galaxy put at risk.

And so the Krogan were the shock troops and cannon fodder against the Rachni.  World after world they fought tooth and nail.  Eventually the Krogan pushed the Rachni back to their homeworld where they, for all intents and purposes, made the Rachni extinct.

The Krogan knew only war.

The council gifted the Krogan many worlds for their part in the war effort.  But combined with a high birth rate, long lifespan and knowing only war and the need to kill or die trying, the Krogan rebellions started.  "The created turned against their creators."  The krogan tools performing the task they were uplifted to do.

So dont say that the krogan "Attacked without provocation".  The krogan were only uplifted to fight.  And fight they did.

If they were uplifted and shown the proper way then the whole war would have been avoided.  Does that excuse what they did?  No.  Not at all.  But dont act like the council races didnt put themselves in the position they were in.  The council unleashed the rachni.  The council uplifted the krogan.  The council used the Krogan as tools.

 And so the genophage was unleashed.  The krogans neutered.  Their species knowing only war.  Culturally deficient their entire species began to die off.

At no point did the council attempt to culturally nuture the Krogan to make them peaceful.  They instead nutured their blood rage.  Because that served their purpose.

The only "chance" that the Krogan ever got was with the genophage cure.  And that is entirely dependant on whether or not they are ready.  With Wreav?  No.  He knows only to do what he was made to do.  To fight.  Wrex and Eve?  I see a bright future for the krogan.  A future with their culture restored.  A future free of misery and dispair.

So yeah.

The Rachni was a mistake....humanity activated a mass relay to explore, no harm intended and it was a draw of luck I suppose you could say, that e didn't run into something like the rachni. That cannot be held against the council and afterwards they did forbid the opening of any other inactive mass relays.

As for the Krogan.....the Salarians made a mistake to uplift them but that too was a sesperate situation in which all faced extinction....but it doesn't change the Krogan. Wrex and Eve won't change the nature of the entire species and the moment they are gone they will be forgotten in minutes as the Krogan will rally around whatever the new leader wants them to do.....just as Nyreen and her values were forgotten within minutes of her death. The Krogan are too dangerous....I cannot take the risk....I will NOT have my Shepard look upon burning planets thinking if only he had understood the obvious.

[Sentient6]

The Rachni Wars were long, long before humanity arrived on the scene. I think you've got your facts a bit fixed up.

[Darth_Trethon]

Carlina wrote...

I.m just doing a playthrough with these variables. About three missions away. But I do know from exp that the only way to get the Geth and Quarians requires some very specific circumstances during ME2:
Keep Tali alive in ME2
Kill the heretics - "A House Divided" and keep Legion alive in ME2
Complete "Geth Fighter Squadrons" mission ME3

Providing the above are true you then get additional points for these events:
Complete "Rannoch: Admiral Koris" - 1 point
Save him as well during this mission - 1 point
Save Tali from exile in ME2 - 2 points
Destroy the heretic geth in "A House Divided" ME2 - 2 points
Broker peace between Legion and Tali in ME2 - 1 point

If you complete the required plot elements and have at least 5 points you can then persuade the quarian fleet to stand down using Paragon. This is difficult as you also require 4 bars of Reputation points. In about 8 playthroughs, I've managed this twice.

I persuade the Quarian fleet to stand down with the Renegade option(and I didn't destroy the heretics)....I think it reflects the tension, emotion, seriousness and volability of the situation much better. Never had any trouble with it and managed it in every playthrough though I worked hard to get my import saves from ME1->ME2->ME3 just the way I want them.

[Obadiah]

Demoiselle wrote...

Godammit Tali, how much of a machoist are you?

I can refuse to give you the evidence in ME1, support Cerberus in ME2 and get your father exiled and you STILL insist on being a squaddie no matter what?

Seriously, by ME3 do no squaddies care how badly you treated them in the past two games?

Only the Kaiden or Ashley I think care how you treated them previously.

Of course, if Wrex is dead...

[Darth_Trethon]

Sentient6 wrote...

The Rachni Wars were long, long before humanity arrived on the scene. I think you've got your facts a bit fixed up.

Read my post again....I said humanity were lucky NOT to run into somethinglike the rachni....not that humanity actually did stumble upon the Rachni.

As far as the story is told in ME1 the council races activated a dormant relay and explored but the extremely territorial rachni attacked and didn't stop when the explorers retreated but poured through and kept seeking and destroying. The queen from ME1 suggests that they were driven mad by what appears to be reaper influence....who "soured" their "songs". Nonetheless it doesn't change what I said....the Council didn't do anything deserving of blame here...they just stumbled upon a great threat.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 02 mars 2013 - 05:14 .

[Xellith]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

The Rachni was a mistake....humanity activated a mass relay to explore, no harm intended and it was a draw of luck I suppose you could say, that e didn't run into something like the rachni. That cannot be held against the council and afterwards they did forbid the opening of any other inactive mass relays.

As for the Krogan.....the Salarians made a mistake to uplift them but that too was a sesperate situation in which all faced extinction....but it doesn't change the Krogan. Wrex and Eve won't change the nature of the entire species and the moment they are gone they will be forgotten in minutes as the Krogan will rally around whatever the new leader wants them to do.....just as Nyreen and her values were forgotten within minutes of her death. The Krogan are too dangerous....I cannot take the risk....I will NOT have my Shepard look upon burning planets thinking if only he had understood the obvious.

Why bring humanity into this in the first paragraph?  Point is that the council unleashed the Rachni.  This is undeniable.  Im not holding anything against the council with regards to humanity.

The salarians didnt make a mistake to uplift the krogans.  The problem is that they were uplifted specifically for war.  They were NOT a very violent species until they were uplifted.  They were stuck on their world as part of tribes.  Roaming around and just trying to live on.  Sure there was barbaric tribal warfare.  What do you expect?

And what do you mean the krogan are too dangerous?  You are a protector of the galaxy.  Are you saying that every other race > krogan?  The krogan have been used and abused their entire time in the galactic community.  Their violence amplified after their uplifting.  Hell look at the salarians.  They are looking at Yagh for their next uplifting endevour.  How do you see THAT ending?

The krogan are not the problem.  They just need to be helped.  All the races have their own issues and need helping.  Why damning the krogan to misery and extinction because of the problems of others.. well...

Its like blaming children for being violent thugs when they were raised in cages and trained to know only fighting.  Stop blaming the Krogan.  They are the end result of a lot of factors.

The krogan once had culture. They were once peaceful. They had cities, roads, science, technology.  They just need help to restore what was lost.  You doom them due to your own shortsightedness.

Modifié par Xellith, 02 mars 2013 - 05:15 .