Aller au contenu

Photo

A fan's request for Darkspawn allies. But please, don't 'Pull a Geth' (Updated 8/21/13)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
180 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Vortex13

Vortex13
  • Members
  • 4 186 messages
Update #2

So with the Game Informer coverage and the Gamescon information; I have been thoroughly psyched for the upcoming DA:I. Playable races making a comeback, ride-able horses, and more tactical combat; everything is looking awesome.

I am going to be upfront here; I would like the possibility of Awakened Darkspawn allies; they don't have to be a companion, just an ally or 'Agent'. Morrigan and the OGB have a potential appearance in the story, and the whole Mage vs Templar conflict is looking to wrap things up, I don't see why the Awakened can't make an appearance as well.

Yes I know, the Taint, but we have several examples of that being reduced or even negated in the lore. Things from magical items that offered protection, to the Architect's training of the Disciples; there is really no reason why an Awakened Darkspawn (at least technically) can't be an ally without killing everyone.

My only request is that DA:I doesn't 'Pull a Geth' to give me Darkspawn allies. I don't want to see the Darkspawn portrayed as poor misunderstood monsters, or the Darkspawn wanting to be more 'human' being used as in-game justification for why we can have friendly Darkspawn.

The Qunari wouldn't have to be show as giving up the teaching of the Qun to be seen as potential allies. Dwarves don't have to give up their brutal caste system in order to be on friendly terms with the player. They each have their own distinct presence in the setting and none of that has to be discarded so we can have Dwarves or Qunari as allies.

Maybe the Awakened are working with the Inquisitor out of concern for their own safety, maybe they are looking to strengthen their holdings in certain sections of the Deep Roads by trading with Inquisition. All I'm saying, is that Darkspawn can be allies without the story having to make apologies for their predicament.

Update #1

So going by the trailer shown at E3 I am seeing several possiblities involving the Darkspawn. 

1. Morrigan mentions the alliances crumbling to ash (or something along those lines) which to me, would seem to imply that as an Inquisitor, the standard factions that one would turn to are no longer stable, and therefore a more radical approch to combat the growing chaos will be needed. Awakened Darkspawn as allies could be such a choice.

Now, obviously (I would imagine) the Inquisitor can go to the other factions like the Grey Wardens, or the Elves, or Dwarves, ect. but I can see the possiblity of working with intelligent Darkspawn agents being a valid option in a world at war. I would like to see such a choice not be portrayed as good or evil in the sense that deciding to recruit an Awakended tribe is the "Renegade" thing to do, while going with the Grey Wardens is the "Paragon" choice for example; in fact I would love to see an Inquisitor (with a completionist playthrough, and maybe some import saves) be capable of acquiring both factions. 

This does not mean that I want to see my Inquisitor yell at the Grey Wardens and Darkspawn and tell them how stupid they are and that they need to work together, and it does not mean that I would want to see the Darkspawn cast in a "poor misunderstood monsters" role that the Geth had in ME 3. Rather, I would like to see an Inquisitor investigate the actions of the Grey Wardens, alluded to in DA 2, and use that to convince both sides to help.

2. The torn Veil and subsequent invasion by demons being a reason to unite the factions of Thedas (like a larger scale DA:O or ME 3). Now some people abhor such a plot, but I actually enjoyed it in both DA:O and ME 3; don't get me wrong I love the political intrigue as well, but nothing is as satisfying to me as getting a myriad of (in this case) warring factions to put aside their conflicts (if at least temporarily) and come together to deal with the larger threat. With that being said, I would prefer it if the Darkspawn are not treated the same way the Geth were in ME 3. The PC having to resolve the Geth/Quarian dispute and make them BFFs, coupled with the overall (IMO) whitewashing of the Geth is not how I would like to see how the potential for Darkspawn allies to be treated in DA:I. 

Maybe, in certain playthroughs, the other factions can gain a begrudging respect for the Awakened, while in others only the looming threat of demonic invasion is keeping the alliance from falling apart; none of the "We used to be enemies, but now, thanks to the Inquisitor we're the best of friends. Awakened chum, come! Marry my daughter!" That the Geth and Quarians had (because of Shepard Quarians are now completly fine with Geth entering their suits or intermingling with their fleets). I would like to see a possible alliance, but not if it comes with the cost of 'humanizing' the Darkspawn, and the Inquisitor putting an end to Darkspawn discrimination everywhere. 

Really, having Darkspawn as allies would help against demons, if for nothing else, their use of magic is powered by the Taint, not the Fade, and Darkspawn are (for the most part) outside the notice of demons.

Original post:

 I am a big fan of the DA setting in general and the Darkspawn in particular, and while I prefer the DA:O/DA:A designs over DA 2 I still enjoy the character/race. I also loved the new side of the Darkspawn we were shown in Awakening, the idea that intelligent Darkspawn were posible was both interesting and terrifying at the same time. 

My Warden spared the Architect, but only because of the potential allies the awakened Disiples could make (I found his 'grand plan' in DA: The Calling abhorant and I still think there was something he was not telling us). The one Darkspawn that approaches you outside of Amaranthie (sp?) instantly drew parallels to Legion in ME 2, and that was awesome; Legion being my favorite squadmate/character. 

But, after playing ME 3 I would ask that the DA team (in the event they give us a Darkspawn party member, or allow us to recruit the Darkspawn as allies) NOT go the same route as ME did with the Geth. This is not about the ending, but how the Geth were shown to be: 

1. Innocent victims in the war of Protagonist and his/her allies' aggression. 

I don't think that I would really have to worry about this happening, but the fact that the Geth were shown to be 'in the right' annoyed me, and I am a Geth/Legion fan. I enjoyed the interaction that Tali and Legion had (as spokesmen for ther respective races), the clashes of ideology, and the obvious animosity between the two was potent, and I could easily see both sides of the debate. ME 3 destroyed that however, the Geth are white washed and Quarians are painted as the cruel taskmasters that were killing the peaceful robots, that they were stupid and rightfully lost their planet. No mention of the 99% casualty rate, or the fact that the Geth never made any attempts to communicate with the Quarians and killed anyone entering the Perseus Veil. 

What does this have to do with the Darkspawn (and I would imagine the same argument could be made about the mages)? I don't want to see a retroactive shift of the characters/race of the Darkspawn being thrown into a light that casts them as a poor misunderstood villian, a tragic figure brought on by characters that were (for the past two games) the protagonists allies and friends. 

But like I said, I probably don't have to worry about this one too much, DA:A did a very good job of casting a nice shade of morally grey descisions around the awakened Darkspawn and the Architect.

2. A complete 180 of the characters' personalities, beliefs and motives.

Legion suddenly pushing for using Reaper tech, the Geth allying with the Reapers (brought on by the 'evil' Quarians), these are things that bugged me about the Rannoch arc in ME 3. It almost seems like the Legion of ME 2 & 3 are completely different characters, in ME 2 he would never have pushed for using the old machines gifts. "Accepting another's path blinds you to alternatives." but in ME 3 that is exactly what he wants.

The Darkspawn are pretty safe insomuch as they haven't really stated an idelolgy, but any 'out of the blue shift' in their character would be a mistake.

3. Hominization of the character/race.

The biggest thing that irked me about the ME 3 Geth, was that at the end of their arc, they really only wanted to be just like organics, to be human. The Pinoccio "I want to be a real boy!" troupe is getting old (IMO). It comes across as implied racism/speciesism in that a character/race is not 'correct' in thier existence, and must strive to be like the 'better' race to achieve true happiness and fufulment.

Why is it that (in recent Sci Fi settings) that robots apparently are all organic wannabes with daddy issues? I prefer the 'pure' robots, things like: the Terminators, the (Pre-Wared) Necrons, even Bioware's own HK-47 existed happily never striving to be just like humanity. The Geth were truly unique with their networked intelligence, but in the end that is scrapped for individual beings that interact like we do. 

I don't want to see this happen to the Darkspawn, the traits that make them unique are what makes them interesting to me. I love, for example, how the Darkspawn are essentially a corruption and twisting of life, and I love how the awakened Darkspawn exist in a damned state in the eyes of the rest if Thedas. I don't want to see that removed for the sake of making the Darkspawn more relatable, or more human; it is the fact that they aren't human that drew me to them in the first place!

Thats how I feel about the Darkspawn, I love Bioware's handling of them (minus the DA 2 redesign) and I would love to see more in the future, to delve further into their character, to maybe have a Darkspawn companion, or even to play as one in MP. But I don't want to see what I loved about them destroyed in the process. 

Edit for for formating.

Modifié par Vortex13, 21 août 2013 - 10:21 .


#2
EpicBoot2daFace

EpicBoot2daFace
  • Members
  • 3 600 messages
Image IPB

At this point, I don't care what they do with the Darkspawn. They were never that interesting to begin with, although the Awakening storyline was pretty cool. Maybe there was something salvagable there after Awakening, but they decided to scrap that storyline in favor of their grand and snooze-inducing Mage vs. Templar war.

#3
Riverdaleswhiteflash

Riverdaleswhiteflash
  • Members
  • 7 914 messages
Don't worry about that. From what I understand, if you spared the Architect he proves to be less effective at controlling the spawn that he believes. Unless Nathaniel's mission in DA2 is meant to be understood as Archie trying to get Nathaniel killed.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 03 mars 2013 - 01:28 .


#4
Vortex13

Vortex13
  • Members
  • 4 186 messages

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

-snip

At this point, I don't care what they do with the Darkspawn. They were never that interesting to begin with, although the Awakening storyline was pretty cool. Maybe there was something salvagable there after Awakening, but they decided to scrap that storyline in favor of their grand and snooze-inducing Mage vs. Templar war.


I don't think the Mage vs. Templar war is boring, it does bring an interesting topic to the forefront of debate; kinda like the Mutant Registration Act in Marvel. That being said I agree that I personally found the Darkspawn more intersting then the "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" vibe I got out of the second game.

#5
mickey111

mickey111
  • Members
  • 1 366 messages
Darkspawn: cursed by the maker for reasons explained in a 7 minuteintroductory video. They're created in a similar way as the Reaper husks, and you've got to kill them or else they'll kill the world for some garbage reason.

Geth: what the OP said.

The Geth are obviously way more interesting.

Still, I'd enjoy a prequel to Dragon Age. An origin story of the darkspawn and how all that **** went down at the golden city. Would be fun to see something like that based around the theme of "humans are bad and should feel bad".

Modifié par mickey111, 02 mars 2013 - 06:28 .


#6
Vortex13

Vortex13
  • Members
  • 4 186 messages

mickey111 wrote...

Darkspawn: cursed by the maker for reasons explained in a 7 minuteintroductory video. They're created in a similar way as the Reaper husks, and you've got to kill them or else they'll kill the world for some garbage reason.

Geth: what the OP said.

The Geth are obviously way more interesting.

Still, I'd enjoy a prequel to Dragon Age. An origin story of the darkspawn and how all that **** went down at the golden city. Would be fun to see something like that based around the theme of "humans are bad and should feel bad".


You see, I always took Chantry's explanation as just one interpetation to the Darkspawn's origins. The lore was written in such a way as the Darkspawns' origins being open to player speculation. Was the Chanrty right? Or is that just religious persecution design to make believers untrusting of Mages?

Anyway, the comparison I was making was how I didn't want to see the Darkspawn, if they are ever placing in a situtation of being an ally, party member, or MP character, that the story does not "Pull a Geth" on them. I found both races interesting (I typically go for the non-human charaters in Sci Fi and Fantasy settings), and both have had a very similar stucture to their development.

Geth in ME 1 & Darkspawn in DA:O = Big Bad Boogie Men.

Geth in ME 2 & Darkspawn in DA:A = Nice twist (IMO) showing that there is more to this character then what one previously thought. And the introduction of memorable and interesting characters/dynamics.

The Awakened Darkspawn messenger = Legion for me.

Geth in ME 3 = What I stated in my OP.

I love the Geth in ME 2 and the Darkspawn in DA:A; I would like for them to remain at that level of intrigue in DA:I and not fall into the pit that the ME 3 Geth fell into.

#7
Wulfram

Wulfram
  • Members
  • 18 948 messages
I felt they went too heavy on making the Geth cuddly good guys even in ME2. The bit about how it was just a small section of "heretics" who we fought in ME1 was a cop out, and also created a problematic expectation of Geth power.

#8
Vortex13

Vortex13
  • Members
  • 4 186 messages

Wulfram wrote...

I felt they went too heavy on making the Geth cuddly good guys even in ME2. The bit about how it was just a small section of "heretics" who we fought in ME1 was a cop out, and also created a problematic expectation of Geth power.


I never really saw the Geth as being "the good guys" in ME 2, granted the whole "Heritics did it!" line was a little cheesy, but I could overlook it. The interaction of Legion with the Normany crew and Tali especially is what drew me to the Geth in the first place.

I really enjoyed the back and forth between Tali and Legion, it reminded me of the Soviets and USA in the Cold War. Both sides were at odds and held clashing ideological views, but ME 3 is like a Soviet propaganda film.

#9
a12boom

a12boom
  • Members
  • 105 messages
The Darkspawn have been left to rot since David Gaider is on a personal mission to make them the "once menacing villain" to "just there".and make Grey Wardens unimportant.

#10
brushyourteeth

brushyourteeth
  • Members
  • 4 418 messages
Interesting post! I can relate to some of your concerns and you make some very valid points. However, I don't think we have to worry too much about the darkspawn being geth-ified, or cleaned up in any fashion in the Dragon Age series. DA revels in the bittersweet - in the morally ambiguous - in the "no one *wins*" of it all.

The fact is that the darkspawn, wherever they come from, and even if they were to be morally reformed, spread sickness and poison the world wherever they touch it. To let the darkspawn live is to essentially sign the death certificates of all (usually more) sentient life in Thedas. Even though I can certainly have some feels for the Architect, and even for the Mother, I can't support their causes without dooming every other thing that lives (unless something dramatically changes in their nature, which would be a big ol' copout IMO).

#11
Gibb_Shepard

Gibb_Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 694 messages
Didn't this kind of already happen in Awakening?

#12
Saibh

Saibh
  • Members
  • 8 071 messages

a12boom wrote...

The Darkspawn have been left to rot since David Gaider is on a personal mission to make them the "once menacing villain" to "just there".and make Grey Wardens unimportant.


Oh man, why does everyone think David Gaider is the One True God of BioWare? It's like he has a personal vendetta, he is out for you. Laughing at you, the patron saint of mediocrity! 

Glory be to Gaider!
Our Writer in Edmonton
hallowed be Your name
Your kingdom come
Your will be done
on Earth, as it is in Thedas

Modifié par Saibh, 02 mars 2013 - 10:53 .


#13
Demx

Demx
  • Members
  • 3 738 messages
Darkspawn in DA2 just reminded me of the Putty Patrol.

I saw in Awakening the darkspawn showing hints to similar traits to what you don't want happening. The innocent victims can be applied to them since they are in a trance like state when the archdemon starts calling them. Obeying every order given to them.

The next step would be to give them an ideology. Perhaps the reason for such large scale attacks is to keep the species alive, as they have no other way to procreate. Not to mention that every sentient species on the planet is actively trying to eradicate them without fully understanding their circumstances.

#14
Direwolf0294

Direwolf0294
  • Members
  • 1 239 messages
I agree that they shouldn't go with the innocent victim route, but they need to do something the Darkspawn if they show up in DA3, which I actually hope they don't. At the moment they're cliche, evil undead with no motive other than being evil. They're boring. BioWare needs to give the Archdemon's some purpose for doing what they're doing with the Blights, otherwise they'll continue being boring villains.

#15
Vortex13

Vortex13
  • Members
  • 4 186 messages

Siradix wrote...

Darkspawn in DA2 just reminded me of the Putty Patrol. 

I saw in Awakening the darkspawn showing hints to similar traits to what you don't want happening. The innocent victims can be applied to them since they are in a trance like state when the archdemon starts calling them. Obeying every order given to them. 

The next step would be to give them an ideology. Perhaps the reason for such large scale attacks is to keep the species alive, as they have no other way to procreate. Not to mention that every sentient species on the planet is actively trying to eradicate them without fully understanding their circumstances.


I never really looked at the Darkspawn in Awakening that way though. To me, the Awakened Darkspawn and the ordinary Darkspawn are two entirely different species. The regular Darkspawn are mearly tools of the Arch Demon, similar to the Collectors in ME, there is no poor victim to feel sorry for because what they were originally (before being corrupted by the Taint/born of a Brood Mother) is dead and gone.


Just like how people in zombie flicks have to put down loved ones when they turn, there is no saving them (yes I know the Awakened Darkspawn but let me explain) a zombie just does what it does, because that is what it is. The un-Awakened Darkspawn are evil, its just a simple fact of their existence, they even enjoy it, the same way a zombie would enjoy eating brains.

Awakened Darkspawn are a different beast entirely, through the magic of the Architect, they are given individual personalities, sentience, and the ability to choose, at that point they cease to be Darkspawn and become an individual being that is judged on individual merits. Yes, on the surface, this does seem like the Darkspawn are being hominizied, but they still retain the qualities that make them Darkspawn.

So Darkspawn and Awakened Darkspawn are different but the same?

Yes, just like how Legion and the revelation he brought with him didn't change the Geth but offered new perspective, the Architect and his Disciples brought new insight and dynamics to the Darkspawn. 

Did that make sense? Sorry, it's kinda hard for me to put into writing how I view/stand on the Darkspawn.

#16
Vortex13

Vortex13
  • Members
  • 4 186 messages

brushyourteeth wrote...

Interesting post! I can relate to some of your concerns and you make some very valid points. However, I don't think we have to worry too much about the darkspawn being geth-ified, or cleaned up in any fashion in the Dragon Age series. DA revels in the bittersweet - in the morally ambiguous - in the "no one *wins*" of it all.

The fact is that the darkspawn, wherever they come from, and even if they were to be morally reformed, spread sickness and poison the world wherever they touch it. To let the darkspawn live is to essentially sign the death certificates of all (usually more) sentient life in Thedas. Even though I can certainly have some feels for the Architect, and even for the Mother, I can't support their causes without dooming every other thing that lives (unless something dramatically changes in their nature, which would be a big ol' copout IMO).


Thanks! I sometimes tend to ramble on and not make a whole lot of sense, glad to see that I am able to form a coherent thought from time to time.

As for the corrupting element of the Darkspawn, yes it is an issue but I don't think it is anything that would doom all life on Thedas. The Blights are what has been the danger to Thedas, the Taint didn't help obviously, but it was the Arch Demon and its owverwhelming hoards that almost ended life on Thedas. 


I am not saying that the Taint is not an issue, far from it, Darkspawn corruption is very deadly to people, but only in close proximity. Also you do have people who can resist the Taint, Grey Wardens and certain mages have proven to be able to withstand its effects. If you spare the messenger at Amaranthie, he becomes a sort of midevil Batman, protecting travelers on the roads, so its obvious that Darkspawn can interact with regular people and not kill them. 

I believe that intelligent Darkspawn are capable of managing their corrupting presence, that does not mean that Darkspawn could intergrate with society; an awakened Darkspawn is not going to rent an apartment with an elf and his family anytime soon, but they can live and operate outside of society without killing everything. 

Just like how the ME 2 Geth were different, but capable of being allies, so are the Awakened Darkspawn, the possibility of tolerance if not co-existance is fessable. I do agree though, that asudden shift that 'cures' the Darkspawn and makes them able to live in peace and harmony with the rest of Thedas is exactly what I DON'T want to see.

Like you said, this is DA, a dark and mature setting, nothing is perfect, and I think that an existance of a society that is potentially deadly to another society fits along nicely wit the established themes.

#17
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 987 messages

Why is it that (in recent Sci Fi settings) that robots apparently are all organic wannabes with daddy issues? I prefer the 'pure' robots, things like: the Terminators, the (Pre-Wared) Necrons, even Bioware's own HK-47 existed happily never striving to be just like humanity. The Geth were truly unique with their networked intelligence, but in the end that is scrapped for individual beings that interact like we do.


I think it'd be a natural thing for any sort of artificial life to want to be more human as they come to learn more about them.

Now, granted I have not played the ME series nor do I know about HK-47. But even so, I find it to be a valid way to portray robots. They'd see all the things humanity has: love, joy, sorrow, pain, cheer, etc. All the ups and downs.

Would they not wish to partake in such a thing? To truly understand something, you must have lived it. Or something along those lines.

midevil Batman


Heh, that's a fitting typo. He's not fully evil, but the taint he spreads could be seen as a downside. But I do like how he displayed that sapient Darkspawn are capable of good deeds once they grow into their new state of being.

#18
andrew252

andrew252
  • Members
  • 290 messages
the problem with the darkspawn is that they reproduce by the broodmothers and they only pop up by abducting females topside and subjecting them to the "i have no mouth but i must scream" scenario. It will be almost impossible for ANY race to accept the darkspawn as anything but monsters when they found out about the broodmothers

#19
Vortex13

Vortex13
  • Members
  • 4 186 messages

andrew252 wrote...

the problem with the darkspawn is that they reproduce by the broodmothers and they only pop up by abducting females topside and subjecting them to the "i have no mouth but i must scream" scenario. It will be almost impossible for ANY race to accept the darkspawn as anything but monsters when they found out about the broodmothers


True, but each Darkspawn is effectively immortal, they can't die from natural causes, so once a society is created they wouldn't have a need to abduct females to create more Brood Mothers. 

If they truely needed new members for their civilization, then who's to say they couldn't use an Awakened Brood Mother for the task? 

Is what the Darkspawn do to captured evil? 

Yes, they are the embodiment of rape and corruption of once beautiful things (which is the primary reason I am against their redesign in DA 2, the astetics don't match the lore). 

Would the races of Thedas stand such an abomination?


No, probably not. But then again I wouldn't imagine that the 'good' awakened Darkspawn would broadcast to the world were they were setting up shop. 

Very similar to the ME 2 Geth in that respect, they never apolozied for the killing of the Quarians or for taking their planet, but they were willing to work with/tolerate the creators. Most Quarians viewed the Geth as monsters that needed to be killed, but that didn't stop their spokesmen (Tali and Legion) and their entire races in ME 3 (ignoring the points I listed in my OP) from working together towards a common goal.

#20
andrew252

andrew252
  • Members
  • 290 messages

Vortex13 wrote...

andrew252 wrote...

the problem with the darkspawn is that they reproduce by the broodmothers and they only pop up by abducting females topside and subjecting them to the "i have no mouth but i must scream" scenario. It will be almost impossible for ANY race to accept the darkspawn as anything but monsters when they found out about the broodmothers


True, but each Darkspawn is effectively immortal, they can't die from natural causes, so once a society is created they wouldn't have a need to abduct females to create more Brood Mothers. 

If they truely needed new members for their civilization, then who's to say they couldn't use an Awakened Brood Mother for the task? 

Is what the Darkspawn do to captured evil? 

Yes, they are the embodiment of rape and corruption of once beautiful things (which is the primary reason I am against their redesign in DA 2, the astetics don't match the lore). 

Would the races of Thedas stand such an abomination?


No, probably not. But then again I wouldn't imagine that the 'good' awakened Darkspawn would broadcast to the world were they were setting up shop. 

Very similar to the ME 2 Geth in that respect, they never apolozied for the killing of the Quarians or for taking their planet, but they were willing to work with/tolerate the creators. Most Quarians viewed the Geth as monsters that needed to be killed, but that didn't stop their spokesmen (Tali and Legion) and their entire races in ME 3 (ignoring the points I listed in my OP) from working together towards a common goal.

actuly i think in the codex it says a broodmother can only "birth" 1000-10000 at a time before they eventuly expire,if so they will always need to gain more numbers because grey wardens are essentialy there HUNTERS.

#21
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

Guest_Cthulhu42_*
  • Guests
Anything not being like the geth can only be a good thing.

#22
Vortex13

Vortex13
  • Members
  • 4 186 messages

andrew252 wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

andrew252 wrote...

the problem with the darkspawn is that they reproduce by the broodmothers and they only pop up by abducting females topside and subjecting them to the "i have no mouth but i must scream" scenario. It will be almost impossible for ANY race to accept the darkspawn as anything but monsters when they found out about the broodmothers


True, but each Darkspawn is effectively immortal, they can't die from natural causes, so once a society is created they wouldn't have a need to abduct females to create more Brood Mothers. 

If they truely needed new members for their civilization, then who's to say they couldn't use an Awakened Brood Mother for the task? 

Is what the Darkspawn do to captured evil? 

Yes, they are the embodiment of rape and corruption of once beautiful things (which is the primary reason I am against their redesign in DA 2, the astetics don't match the lore). 

Would the races of Thedas stand such an abomination?


No, probably not. But then again I wouldn't imagine that the 'good' awakened Darkspawn would broadcast to the world were they were setting up shop. 

Very similar to the ME 2 Geth in that respect, they never apolozied for the killing of the Quarians or for taking their planet, but they were willing to work with/tolerate the creators. Most Quarians viewed the Geth as monsters that needed to be killed, but that didn't stop their spokesmen (Tali and Legion) and their entire races in ME 3 (ignoring the points I listed in my OP) from working together towards a common goal.

actuly i think in the codex it says a broodmother can only "birth" 1000-10000 at a time before they eventuly expire,if so they will always need to gain more numbers because grey wardens are essentialy there HUNTERS.


Even then, they would have 1,000 to 10,000 creatures that can't die of old age. Also, depending on your actions, the Wardens can potentially be allies to the awakened Darkspawn. 

Obviously there would be alot of animosity against the Awakened Darkspawn, and you also would have to deal with the possibility of Darkspawn individuals deciding they don't want to help the races of Thedas and would rather rape, pillage, and kill stuff, but there is the fessability of the Awakened Darkspawn becoming allies that doesn't require the story "Pulling a Geth."

#23
TMZuk

TMZuk
  • Members
  • 1 066 messages

andrew252 wrote...

the problem with the darkspawn is that they reproduce by the broodmothers and they only pop up by abducting females topside and subjecting them to the "i have no mouth but i must scream" scenario. It will be almost impossible for ANY race to accept the darkspawn as anything but monsters when they found out about the broodmothers


QFT!

That is what makes the whole Awakening story-line so incredibly stupid.

How could any Warden, not to mention a female Warden, allow the Architect to go through with his plan? Sacrificing the occasional woman to the darkspawn in the name of peace, perhaps? It's just to vile for words, and it was perhaps the most horryfying moment of DA:O when I realized why darkspawn captured women alive.

If there's going to be darkspawn in DA3, I hope they drop the silliness that was DA:A, and the ridiculous look they gave them in DA2.

#24
Vortex13

Vortex13
  • Members
  • 4 186 messages

TMZuk wrote...

-snip


QFT!

That is what makes the whole Awakening story-line so incredibly stupid.

How could any Warden, not to mention a female Warden, allow the Architect to go through with his plan? Sacrificing the occasional woman to the darkspawn in the name of peace, perhaps? It's just to vile for words, and it was perhaps the most horryfying moment of DA:O when I realized why darkspawn captured women alive.

If there's going to be darkspawn in DA3, I hope they drop the silliness that was DA:A, and the ridiculous look they gave them in DA2.


I would image a female Warden that could pick the Golems over the Dwarves and side with the werewolves over the elves could.


But even a 'good' female Warden could side with the Darkspawn if you view the situation in the same light as children born of rape, are they to blame for the atrocious act? 

The same thing could have been said of the Geth (before ME 3), "How could anyone work with a genocidadal robot army?"

Not to say that we should excuse the reality of the Darkspawn's creation, but the addition of the Awakened Darkspawn did shed an interesting and (IMO) well done light on the character that offers new perspective.

Edit - I don't trust the Architect and I would never sacrifice women to the Darksapwn like virgins to appease the volcano god, but I do feel that on an indiviual basis the Awakened Darkspawn do show potential; the Darkspawn messenger's actions should you spare him being a prime example.

Modifié par Vortex13, 03 mars 2013 - 02:01 .


#25
Paul E Dangerously

Paul E Dangerously
  • Members
  • 1 880 messages

Vortex13 wrote...
The same thing could have been said of the Geth (before ME 3), "How could anyone work with a genocidadal robot army?"


Except it was made pretty clear early on in ME1 that the Geth were only that way because the Quarians did the worst possible thing to them. Plus, they hadn't been doing much aside from just lurking behind the Perseus Veil.

Regardless of what the Architect says, the Darkspawn are pretty much flat out evil. A bit of a difference, there.