180 réponses à ce sujet

[andrew252]

Vortex13 wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

-snip


QFT!

That is what makes the whole Awakening story-line so incredibly stupid.

How could any Warden, not to mention a female Warden, allow the Architect to go through with his plan? Sacrificing the occasional woman to the darkspawn in the name of peace, perhaps? It's just to vile for words, and it was perhaps the most horryfying moment of DA:O when I realized why darkspawn captured women alive.

If there's going to be darkspawn in DA3, I hope they drop the silliness that was DA:A, and the ridiculous look they gave them in DA2.

I would image a female Warden that could pick the Golems over the Dwarves and side with the werewolves over the elves could.


But even a 'good' female Warden could side with the Darkspawn if you view the situation in the same light as children born of rape, are they to blame for the atrocious act? 

The same thing could have been said of the Geth (before ME 3), "How could anyone work with a genocidadal robot army?"

Not to say that we should excuse the reality of the Darkspawn's creation, but the addition of the Awakened Darkspawn did shed an interesting and (IMO) well done light on the character that offers new perspective.

Edit - I don't trust the Architect and I would never sacrifice women to the Darksapwn like virgins to appease the volcano god, but I do feel that on an indiviual basis the Awakened Darkspawn do show potential; the Darkspawn messenger's actions should you spare him being a prime example.

to be fair for the geth they were attacked by one asking if they have a soul,which led the quorians to overreact and start to genocide them.here it was the darkspawn that was the first attacker

EDIT in truth the having darkspawn that can now think ahead more isnt really a good thing for us since now they can start to employ new tactics instead of just zerg rush everything in sight,hell we might even have darkspawn use siege weapons if they get smart enough

Modifié par andrew252, 03 mars 2013 - 02:33 .

[MerchantGOL]

Darkspawn have always been lame and boring.

[andrew252]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Darkspawn have always been lame and boring.

what if we gave them all wings and 2 heads and 4 arm which each hand replaced by maceheads cloaked in poision

Modifié par andrew252, 03 mars 2013 - 02:37 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

andrew252 wrote...
hell we might even have darkspawn use siege weapons if they get smart enough

Armored ogres.

[andrew252]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

andrew252 wrote...
hell we might even have darkspawn use siege weapons if they get smart enough

Armored ogres.

so were fighting zerg now?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

andrew252 wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

andrew252 wrote...
hell we might even have darkspawn use siege weapons if they get smart enough

Armored ogres.

so were fighting zerg now?

Hence the swarm tactics.

Edit: On the other hand, I don't think zerg know how to make armor.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 03 mars 2013 - 03:11 .

[MerchantGOL]

andrew252 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Darkspawn have always been lame and boring.

what if we gave them all wings and 2 heads and 4 arm which each hand replaced by maceheads cloaked in poision

The problem isn'thow they fight it why they fight, their mindles beasts, with out direction other then to kill. and unlike the reapers they fail to inspire the same "We cant fight them" terror, even the "smart" ones are stupid

[andrew252]

MerchantGOL wrote...

andrew252 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Darkspawn have always been lame and boring.

what if we gave them all wings and 2 heads and 4 arm which each hand replaced by maceheads cloaked in poision

The problem isn'thow they fight it why they fight, their mindles beasts, with out direction other then to kill. and unlike the reapers they fail to inspire the same "We cant fight them" terror, even the "smart" ones are stupid

which is why we soil our pants when an archdeamon appears,when you turn mindless killers into a mindless killing horde controled by 1 intelegent dragon.....your screwed

[Medhia Nox]

What I found more disturbing about the Geth is that people equated "cool" with "good guys".

They liked Legion - so they decided to believe everything Legion said. Geth were good now.

Not once did I ever read the level of suspicion leveled at the Chantry propaganda used against Legion.

But honestly - the Darkspawn are ugly - nobody is ever going to side with ugly for too long.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 03 mars 2013 - 04:19 .

[andrew252]

Medhia Nox wrote...

What I found more disturbing about the Geth is that people equated "cool" with "good guys".

They liked Legion - so they decided to believe everything Legion said. Geth were good now.

Not once did I ever read the level of suspicion leveled at the Chantry propaganda used against Legion.

But honestly - the Darkspawn are ugly - nobody is ever going to side with ugly for too long.

kindof like histroy depicts the good as the winners and the evil as the losers of war

[Solmanian]

I find the idea of darkspawn companion/LI highly unlikely...

[andrew252]

Solmanian wrote...

I find the idea of darkspawn companion/LI highly unlikely...

that be one hell of a love triangle right there,also and dont quote me on this.....i think he/s has some sory of STD on him/her

[Dabrikishaw]

The whole of Act 2 of Mass Effect 3 had problems with the Geth and Quarians, so I just side with the Geth first to kill the Quarians and then pick destroy problem solved.

[hitenchi]

I will say that there are obvious differences between the geth and the darkspawn. The geth were originally made as a slave machine race. Even in number ME 1 you can consider the geth the 'victims' in the conflict since Tali admits that they started the war and blames it all on the fact that one of them started to question it sense of purpose and the geth just responded to the attack. They are untrusting of the biological races for a good reason and they are not a particularly aggressive since they stay were they are.

The darkspawn on the other hand bring ruin and death to all that they merely touch, it is called a blight because that is what they bring, thats what they are. Even if the darkspawn didnt want to they can't really stop it.

[Auintus]

From what I understood, only those who the Architect has "freed" are anything more than mindless animals. And judging by the Mother, that freedom doesn't always work out well. I wouldn't mind having a small faction of "awakened" darkspawn as allies, but I doubt we have to worry about them being made completely sympathetic.

[mousestalker]

I think Biowareth intention ith to keep uth gething.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Peaceful hugable Darkspawn is what the majority of BSN always wanted. You also can side with Darkspawn in DA:I to punish the biased Grey Wardens zealots!

[Vortex13]

hitenchi wrote...

I will say that there are obvious differences between the geth and the darkspawn. The geth were originally made as a slave machine race. Even in number ME 1 you can consider the geth the 'victims' in the conflict since Tali admits that they started the war and blames it all on the fact that one of them started to question it sense of purpose and the geth just responded to the attack. They are untrusting of the biological races for a good reason and they are not a particularly aggressive since they stay were they are.

The darkspawn on the other hand bring ruin and death to all that they merely touch, it is called a blight because that is what they bring, thats what they are. Even if the darkspawn didnt want to they can't really stop it.

The way I see it, the Awakened Darkspawn represent a new dimension to an originally flat character. Just like how Legion brought the realization that the Geth were more then what we thought so does the Awakened Darkspawn. 

This does not make the Darkspawn out to be the poor mistreated good guys though; at least I hope that is not the case should Bioware continue to develope the character. 

I would like to see the possiblity of recruiting that Awakened messenger from Ameranthie (sp?) should you spare him, or maybe recruit a 'tribe' of Awakened Darkspawn to help in the war.


I would really like to see an Awakened Darkspawn as a playable character in MP (if its going to be similar to ME's), but that doesn't mean that they have to be Geth-ified to make that happen.

The messenger I mentioned, ends up helping people on the roads from bandits. Now granted, it doesn't say that people ran up and shook his hand after he/it rescued them, but it does set a precidence for an intelligent Darkspawn to be capable of aidding others without killing them.

I'm not wanting to see the Darkspawn become buddy buddy with the other races of Thedas, or for them to be a potential LI (that would be massively stupid), but a group of Darkspawn that can aid you, yes that is possible. The races of Thedas have every right to view the Awakened Darkspawn as monsters, but a few characters (should you choose) and me personally, can see that Awakened Darkspawn are to be judged on an individual basis. There are bad humans/elves/dwarves and there are good ones, same thing with the Darkspawn.

[SeismicGravy]

Pretty sure it would be impossible to turn the Darkspawn into the Geth.

You'd need to hire a Quarian mechanic for a start, along with some electrical cables, an energy saving bulb.............

[Shallyah]

If they managed to whitewash irrationally the Geth to the point that some people even feel it's sad that they have to die in Destroy endings, I'm sure they can do the same for the Darkspawn. They just have to retcon manipulated flashbacks of how the darkspawn were being hunted and tortured by the Chantry when they just wanted to keep to themselves and not hurt anyone. Then they were forced to turn themselves to the service of the Archdemon in a desperate attempt for survival.

And it'll all make as little sense as the Geth Consensus mission in ME3, which thousands of players actually bought.

Modifié par Shallyah, 03 mars 2013 - 09:59 .

[BouncyFrag]

Legion in ME2 was one of my favorite characters in the series and changed the Geth dynamic in the game. I don't think I could see DA doing this with a darkspawn. They just seem a bit too feral.

[Vortex13]

The Darkspawn Taint, while incredibly deadly; and corrupting to those it infects, I don't feel it is as 'super plague' as some make it out to be. The idea that one Darkspawn, a small community of Darkspawn, or a small army of the things could corrupt and destroy all of Thedas just by standing out in an open field is a misconception (IMO). 

In all instances I have seen of the Taint corrupting has been through the use of Darkspawn bodily fluids; most noteably the blood. The creation of a Brood Mother involves the female being force fed Darkspawn flesh, and raped (which involves other bodily fluids). The Grey Warden joining, and infections on the field of battle involve Darkspawn blood as well. 

The lands that have been Tainted? Well the lore never spells it out, but I don't think it has anything necessarily to do with Darkspawn standing there and more to do with the killing, and raping. Darkspawn forces don't remove the bodies of their fallen from the field, and why not? Each dead or dying Darkspawn is only spreading its Tainted blood over the ground which would make sense as the ground would absorb the decay.

Look at it this way, would a leper infect an entire population just by standing there? No. If said leper was in constant physical contact with others, if he swaped clothes and shared food/water/baths with people then yes they would be infected.


If the Taint could infect by mere presence then why does the non-Warden members of your party (Wynne, Oghran, Sten, ect.) become infected when they fight Darkspawn? Why does no one succumb to the Taint when visiting the Deep Roads, or when they return to Ostigar (Sp?)? Both areas are under full control of the Darkspawn, granted the Deep Roads a lot longer than Ostigar, but even then, the Deep Roads aren't anymore corrupted then an ordinary cave. Until you get to the Brood Mother's lair; an area where Darkspawn constantly have infectious fluids being spilled. The massive spiders? Infected through eating dead Darkspawn, being opertunity feeders after all.

If the Taint is so virulent, then how is it that any dwarves survive at all? I mean Dwarven patrols are constantly out in Darkspawn controlled territory, and the warriors are frequently engaged in close combat with the creatures, how is it that the enitre population is not infected?

Also the Architect seems to have some magical ability to reduce the effects of the Taint, and it is said that he has taught the Awakened Darkspawn to Awaken others, so who's to say that he also didn't teach them how to manage their Taint?

[Paul E Dangerously]

Vortex13 wrote...
If the Taint could infect by mere presence then why does the non-Warden members of your party (Wynne, Oghran, Sten, ect.) become infected when they fight Darkspawn? Why does no one succumb to the Taint when visiting the Deep Roads, or when they return to Ostigar (Sp?)? Both areas are under full control of the Darkspawn, granted the Deep Roads a lot longer than Ostigar, but even then, the Deep Roads aren't anymore corrupted then an ordinary cave. Until you get to the Brood Mother's lair; an area where Darkspawn constantly have infectious fluids being spilled. The massive spiders? Infected through eating dead Darkspawn, being opertunity feeders after all.

If the Taint is so virulent, then how is it that any dwarves survive at all? I mean Dwarven patrols are constantly out in Darkspawn controlled territory, and the warriors are frequently engaged in close combat with the creatures, how is it that the enitre population is not infected?

Also the Architect seems to have some magical ability to reduce the effects of the Taint, and it is said that he has taught the Awakened Darkspawn to Awaken others, so who's to say that he also didn't teach them how to manage their Taint?

A large part of this is due to a disconnect between the lore and the gameplay. Similar to the Warden being able to hurl about Blood Magic and nobody batting an eye (yes, I know about the cut Wynne scene) or Hawke summoning fire from the sky in a city full to burting with Templars.

As far as the Dwarves go, it's only really the Warrior Caste that ventures out into the Deep Roads, and even then not all that often.

[Vortex13]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...
If the Taint could infect by mere presence then why does the non-Warden members of your party (Wynne, Oghran, Sten, ect.) become infected when they fight Darkspawn? Why does no one succumb to the Taint when visiting the Deep Roads, or when they return to Ostigar (Sp?)? Both areas are under full control of the Darkspawn, granted the Deep Roads a lot longer than Ostigar, but even then, the Deep Roads aren't anymore corrupted then an ordinary cave. Until you get to the Brood Mother's lair; an area where Darkspawn constantly have infectious fluids being spilled. The massive spiders? Infected through eating dead Darkspawn, being opertunity feeders after all.

If the Taint is so virulent, then how is it that any dwarves survive at all? I mean Dwarven patrols are constantly out in Darkspawn controlled territory, and the warriors are frequently engaged in close combat with the creatures, how is it that the enitre population is not infected?

Also the Architect seems to have some magical ability to reduce the effects of the Taint, and it is said that he has taught the Awakened Darkspawn to Awaken others, so who's to say that he also didn't teach them how to manage their Taint?

A large part of this is due to a disconnect between the lore and the gameplay. Similar to the Warden being able to hurl about Blood Magic and nobody batting an eye (yes, I know about the cut Wynne scene) or Hawke summoning fire from the sky in a city full to burting with Templars.

As far as the Dwarves go, it's only really the Warrior Caste that ventures out into the Deep Roads, and even then not all that often.

True the lore does take a back seat when it comes to game mechanics from time to time, but still you would have to admit that if the Taint could spread just by the Darkspawn looking at you, then the Dwarves would have died out long ago.

I don't buy the argument that letting intelligent Darkspawn that have proven willing and able to aid Thedas, live would doom the entire world to their corruption. If that was the case, then Thedas never should have been able to recover from the First Blight, since the Darkspawn were pretty much everywhere.

[Yggdrasil]

Auintus wrote...

From what I understood, only those who the Architect has "freed" are anything more than mindless animals. And judging by the Mother, that freedom doesn't always work out well. I wouldn't mind having a small faction of "awakened" darkspawn as allies, but I doubt we have to worry about them being made completely sympathetic.

I think the whole point of the Awakening expansion was to give a new future for the darkspawn.  From a writing point of view, every game can't be about a Blight.  But if it's possible to free the darkspawn from their hive mind, then you have a whole new potential for enemies and allies.

I can see a sympathetic group of darkspawn that just want to be left alone.  But I can also see an evil character (darkspawn or not) leading them on some kind of crusade.  It would be a great way to keep them as an enemy without having to have an Archdemon or a Blight.

It seems to me that some initial materials I read about DA:I mentioned some kind of evil beyond the politics of the mage/templar war.  So perhaps the darkspawn will be a major part of the story.