180 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Darkspawns are worse than Orks. So I don't see why shouldn't they turn into something like Geth!

[Yalision]

The Darkspawn looked and moved like Putty Patrollers from the original Power Rangers during Dragon Age 2. Every time I saw them I simply could not stop laughing, it was so, sooo terrible.

[schebobo]

I've always felt that creating an ugly/all-evil monster type of enemy is the easy way out in epic sci-fi or fantasy storytelling. Guess it makes killing a bajillion of them a lot easier.

Would be interesting to see a fantasy game where you don't actually kill or fight cliched 'dark' monsters but then I guess it won't be a fantasy game right?

[garrusfan1]

I doubt they will become allies completly in any way also I think the darkspawn should remain evil

[Wulfram]

schebobo wrote...

I've always felt that creating an ugly/all-evil monster type of enemy is the easy way out in epic sci-fi or fantasy storytelling. Guess it makes killing a bajillion of them a lot easier.

Would be interesting to see a fantasy game where you don't actually kill or fight cliched 'dark' monsters but then I guess it won't be a fantasy game right?

Problem is that unless you're prepared for a fairly radical departure in game design, you are going to kill a bajillion of something.  If they're not "monsters" that can start to seem problematic.

I think DA2 suffered from having bandits rather than Darkspawn or their equivalent

[Lluthren]

They'll never be Geth, Darkspawn are like demonic zombies, Geth are AI's. Darkspawn were cursed by the sins of their own kind, Geth were treated like trash by others and rebelled. The blight is a punishment for man, Geth were servants of the people.

You can only make victims of darspawn sympathetic. They get the blight just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and die or join the darkspawn as mindless monsters. Only awakened darkspawn could be somewhat sympathetic, but they were also kind of bad guys.

[robertthebard]

The problem with the whitewashing, vilifying of the Quarians in ME 3 is that we are presented with substantiating evidence in ME 1, from Tali. Super summarizing:

Random geth: Does this unit have a soul.

Random Quarian: Shut them all down now.

This is how the Morning War started. There is no inconsistency there, unless you didn't play ME 1, or didn't talk to Tali at all about the geth.

Full circle back to DA. In the Legacy DLC, we are shown that the Chantry, while they may indeed be tyrannical about things, has one point; it was indeed the hubris of man that created the darkspawn.

[Vortex13]

robertthebard wrote...

The problem with the whitewashing, vilifying of the Quarians in ME 3 is that we are presented with substantiating evidence in ME 1, from Tali. Super summarizing:

Random geth: Does this unit have a soul.

Random Quarian: Shut them all down now.

This is how the Morning War started. There is no inconsistency there, unless you didn't play ME 1, or didn't talk to Tali at all about the geth.

Full circle back to DA. In the Legacy DLC, we are shown that the Chantry, while they may indeed be tyrannical about things, has one point; it was indeed the hubris of man that created the darkspawn.

Yes this is how the Morning War started, but ME 3 conveniently forgets to mention the 99% casualty rates among Quarians, the near extinction of their species, or how the Geth killed anyone entering the Viel for 300 years. I'm not saying the Quarians are totally blameless for what happened, but ME 3 makes it out to be extemly one sided in favor of the Geth. Quarians didn't side with the Reapers twice, they didn't murder anyone attempting to approch their territory, ect. Maybe whitewashing isn't an appropriate term, but the Geth server quest comes off almost like a propaganda film.

I thought that Legacy still left the origins of the Darkspawn up to interpretation; Corpheyus says that the Golden City was blackened when they got there, and Anders says that the Chantry version is false (then again that might be Anders just being Anders). We don't know if it played out exactly how the Chantry says it does, and even if it did; Mages being rightfully blamed for the creation of the Darkspawn, it still doesn't address the Awakened Darkspawn. 

Assuming that Chantry lore is correct, you now have three 'species' of Darkspawn to deal with: The Tiventer Magisters (and the Architect since he looks like Corpheyus), the Un-Awakened Darkspawn and the Awakened Darkspawn. The Magisters are the root cause of the Darkspawn, and the Un-Awakened are mindless monsters, but the Awakened are something else entirely.

[Vortex13]

In Exile wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...
The Messenger Disciple (should you spare him) disproves this notion, the fact that you have a precidence of Awakened Darkspawn being good or bad means that an Awakened lead Blight is not destined to happen; more likely granted, but not absolute.

What? He doesn't do that at all. He literally goes around spreading the blight. The people he saved that are infected are going to die a slow, painful death while serving the darkspawn in the deep roads, and any women will eventually become brood mother.

He completely proves the point because he actually isn't all that bad and will still cause way more harm than good, by himself, forever.

2. This I don't buy. Oh I don't deny that such a thing could happen, but if the Darkspawn's mear presence condemns Thedas to die then why is everyone still alive?

Because the darkspawn corruption doesn't erupt on the surface. DA:O failed 100% at showing this, but the Blight is a disease. It ravages the land. That's why the sky over Denerim (in the final battle) is that weird red colour. You're not fighting at night. You're dealing with the sky being blotted out.

What do you think bereskans are? They're the monstrous mutation of animals infested with the blight. Just read it up on the DA wiki.

I mean Darkspawn have been in the world of Thedas for thousands of years and they haven't corrupted it. Even the Dwarves are still around despite living next door to the things. If what you say is true then Thedas NEVER should have been able to recover from the First Blight, the Darkspawn where everywhere and they were running roughshot over everybody for 200 years before the Grey Wardens showed up.

The Anderfells didn't recover. There are whole areas that are basically dead wasteland. It took a century to recover from the blight - that's what everyone talks about. The darkspawn retreating makes the disease go away, but this is 100% confirmed lore. 

1. The end slide does mention the isolated cases of the Taint yes, but that doesn't nessassarily mean that everything the Messenger touches is corrupted thereby dooming all of Thedas. We know he helps travlers on the road, mostly likely by defending them from bandits or wild animals; an action that would require him to engage in close quarters combat with said foes. A bandit or bear that gets Tainted blood in a wound IS going to be infected yes, but that would in no way indicate the start of a plague. If the Messenger's Tainted blood is such a corrupting agent then we would not have isolated cases of the Blight, the entire road he watched over would be infected. 

2. Yes the Taint is a desease, an incredibly viriolent agent that seems to spread via bodily fluids, but I don't think the Taint was the cause of the red skies over Denerim. It is only when the Arch Demon leads the horde directly; an ancient, intelligent dragon with Magical abilities; that the sky turns red, leading me to believe that the dragon caused that to happen and not the Taint. 

If everywhere the Darkspawn go is corrupted, then why does Ostigar still have non-corrupted plant life? Why does only the BroodMother's lair look like that while the rest of the Deep Roads look like normal caves? IMO its because the Taint is only spread through bodily fluids and not the Darkspawn simply existing. BroodMothers are created from Darkspawn forcing canabalizim and rape on captured females; both of which involve heavy uses of bodily fluids. 


3. Wouldn't it be possible that the Anderfells were locations were massive quantities of Darkspawn blood was spilled rather than areas where the Darkspawn mearly walked over? Darkspawn were everywhere during the First Blight, so why would only those particular areas still be Deadlands when the rest of Thedas was able to recover in a century? 

As a horde of "Kill all the things" yes the Darkspawn are a plaugue, a Blight, but is that because of the Darkspawn simply existing, or is it because Un-Awakened Darkspawn kill, rape, and pillage everything in sight? I say its the latter, and if that is the case then an intelligent, Awakened Darkspawn could exist without killing, raping, and pillaging in sight, therefore not spreading Taint infect blood everywhere. 

[robertthebard]

Vortex13 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

The problem with the whitewashing, vilifying of the Quarians in ME 3 is that we are presented with substantiating evidence in ME 1, from Tali. Super summarizing:

Random geth: Does this unit have a soul.

Random Quarian: Shut them all down now.

This is how the Morning War started. There is no inconsistency there, unless you didn't play ME 1, or didn't talk to Tali at all about the geth.

Full circle back to DA. In the Legacy DLC, we are shown that the Chantry, while they may indeed be tyrannical about things, has one point; it was indeed the hubris of man that created the darkspawn.

Yes this is how the Morning War started, but ME 3 conveniently forgets to mention the 99% casualty rates among Quarians, the near extinction of their species, or how the Geth killed anyone entering the Viel for 300 years. I'm not saying the Quarians are totally blameless for what happened, but ME 3 makes it out to be extemly one sided in favor of the Geth. Quarians didn't side with the Reapers twice, they didn't murder anyone attempting to approch their territory, ect. Maybe whitewashing isn't an appropriate term, but the Geth server quest comes off almost like a propaganda film.

I thought that Legacy still left the origins of the Darkspawn up to interpretation; Corpheyus says that the Golden City was blackened when they got there, and Anders says that the Chantry version is false (then again that might be Anders just being Anders). We don't know if it played out exactly how the Chantry says it does, and even if it did; Mages being rightfully blamed for the creation of the Darkspawn, it still doesn't address the Awakened Darkspawn. 

Assuming that Chantry lore is correct, you now have three 'species' of Darkspawn to deal with: The Tiventer Magisters (and the Architect since he looks like Corpheyus), the Un-Awakened Darkspawn and the Awakened Darkspawn. The Magisters are the root cause of the Darkspawn, and the Un-Awakened are mindless monsters, but the Awakened are something else entirely.

Just briefly since I don't want to derail totally here, but it doesn't neglect it at all, unless you believe there were only 17 million Quarians to begin with.  I really don't, and I knew their losses were devastating, and I never read any novels for numbers.  Common sense told me that they lost a lot.

Yeah, I'm doing what I did in Awakening, taking everything Anders says with a grain of salt, which was really sad when I played as a mage.  You'd think I could sympathize with him, but I just couldn't.  People claim he was changed, but really he was just as whiney as ever.  He may have had some valid points, but overall, his viewpoint is skewed.

The rest is the problem I have with organized religions even today.  Interpretation is key, and the Chantry is the only one interpreting things, which is exactly how things were in the Middle Ages, when being able to read was a privilege.  "It says what we tell you it says" period, I found Cory to be pretty insightful.  I had doubted from the beginning that humans had found their way to the Maker's home, only to find out that they indeed had.  I don't buy everything the Chantry sells, but when faced with one of the Magisters that had actually made the journey, I am forced to reevaluate that perspective.  Regarding the three factions, none of them are really deserving of pity.  What happens if an Old God wakes up and starts singing?  They will all succumb, sooner or later.  The ones we meet are post Blight, no Old God, and we learn that we got this last blight courtesy of one the Awakened.  Not really someone I'd want on my side.

[Vortex13]

robertthebard wrote...

 Regarding the three factions, none of them are really deserving of pity.  What happens if an Old God wakes up and starts singing?  They will all succumb, sooner or later.  The ones we meet are post Blight, no Old God, and we learn that we got this last blight courtesy of one the Awakened.  Not really someone I'd want on my side.

Pity? No not pity, that's the last thing I want the narrative to do, but an exploration of a new perspective, or individual assessment? Yes. 

If I am not mistaken the process of Awakening a Darkspawn severes their connection to the Old God, hence the Mother's madness of not being able to hear the music. Also the Architect operated 'outside' the Old God's influence during the (brief) Blight in DA:O, so it is possible for an Awakened to resist the Calling.

Now its true that we have no idea how an Arch Demon would react to Darkspawn operating outside of it's influence; would it ignore them? Attempt to bring them back to the Fold? Dedicate all forces to kill them? But to automatically assume that they would aid a Blight would be incorrect based on the Awakened indiviual. 

Yes, the Architect is the cause of the Blight, and he is also the author of the abhorant 'Fantasy-Synthesis' plan in the novel DA: The Calling, and I still don't think he is telling us the whole truth in Awakening even after the revelation that the Mother supplies. He is (IMO) a villian in need of defeating; I did spare him in Awakening but that involves a long and convoluted Meta-gaming reasoning that in no way reflect how I personally feel about him; but he is not the only Awakened we meet.

Yes the Messenger is in the vast minority of 'helpful' Awakened, and yes I will admit my interest in the Darkspawn's character is coloring my perceptions a bit, but there is the potential of allies and something useful to come out of the Architect's experiments (the magical ability to manage/control the Taint for example). The Messenger being one of the few good guys is really no different then Nathanel or Sten being one of the few good guys out of their respective families. Really that is what the Awakened are, a crazy dsfunctional family; is Nathanel to blame for the atrocities committed by his father? Sten believes in a 'religion' who's creed is:"Convert or Die." if you get down to it, but as an indiviual he has admirable qualities. 

[robertthebard]

Vortex13 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

 Regarding the three factions, none of them are really deserving of pity.  What happens if an Old God wakes up and starts singing?  They will all succumb, sooner or later.  The ones we meet are post Blight, no Old God, and we learn that we got this last blight courtesy of one the Awakened.  Not really someone I'd want on my side.

Pity? No not pity, that's the last thing I want the narrative to do, but an exploration of a new perspective, or individual assessment? Yes. 

If I am not mistaken the process of Awakening a Darkspawn severes their connection to the Old God, hence the Mother's madness of not being able to hear the music. Also the Architect operated 'outside' the Old God's influence during the (brief) Blight in DA:O, so it is possible for an Awakened to resist the Calling.

Now its true that we have no idea how an Arch Demon would react to Darkspawn operating outside of it's influence; would it ignore them? Attempt to bring them back to the Fold? Dedicate all forces to kill them? But to automatically assume that they would aid a Blight would be incorrect based on the Awakened indiviual. 

Yes, the Architect is the cause of the Blight, and he is also the author of the abhorant 'Fantasy-Synthesis' plan in the novel DA: The Calling, and I still don't think he is telling us the whole truth in Awakening even after the revelation that the Mother supplies. He is (IMO) a villian in need of defeating; I did spare him in Awakening but that involves a long and convoluted Meta-gaming reasoning that in no way reflect how I personally feel about him; but he is not the only Awakened we meet.

Yes the Messenger is in the vast minority of 'helpful' Awakened, and yes I will admit my interest in the Darkspawn's character is coloring my perceptions a bit, but there is the potential of allies and something useful to come out of the Architect's experiments (the magical ability to manage/control the Taint for example). The Messenger being one of the few good guys is really no different then Nathanel or Sten being one of the few good guys out of their respective families. Really that is what the Awakened are, a crazy dsfunctional family; is Nathanel to blame for the atrocities committed by his father? Sten believes in a 'religion' who's creed is:"Convert or Die." if you get down to it, but as an indiviual he has admirable qualities. 

I rather thought she was mad about the singing because the Old God was dead.  I may have just been grossed out enough to miss something in the dialog though, she was plenty disgusting.  Regarding Sten, I'll flash forward to DA 2.  I found the Arishok a fascinating character.  I don't think the qualities we're associating with Sten, as I do share your opinion, were limited to him alone.  We aren't given much of a chance to explore the Qunari, or the Qun much beyond Sten though, so it's hard to say.  I may not agree with their agenda, but I have to admire the fact that they will stick to their guns, and not bow to pressure, such as with the Elves just before the ambush is sprung.  I did notice, as well, their sense of honor.  When you beat the Arishok, they pack up and leave, no questions asked.

[Vortex13]

robertthebard wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

 Regarding the three factions, none of them are really deserving of pity.  What happens if an Old God wakes up and starts singing?  They will all succumb, sooner or later.  The ones we meet are post Blight, no Old God, and we learn that we got this last blight courtesy of one the Awakened.  Not really someone I'd want on my side.

Pity? No not pity, that's the last thing I want the narrative to do, but an exploration of a new perspective, or individual assessment? Yes. 

If I am not mistaken the process of Awakening a Darkspawn severes their connection to the Old God, hence the Mother's madness of not being able to hear the music. Also the Architect operated 'outside' the Old God's influence during the (brief) Blight in DA:O, so it is possible for an Awakened to resist the Calling.

Now its true that we have no idea how an Arch Demon would react to Darkspawn operating outside of it's influence; would it ignore them? Attempt to bring them back to the Fold? Dedicate all forces to kill them? But to automatically assume that they would aid a Blight would be incorrect based on the Awakened indiviual. 

Yes, the Architect is the cause of the Blight, and he is also the author of the abhorant 'Fantasy-Synthesis' plan in the novel DA: The Calling, and I still don't think he is telling us the whole truth in Awakening even after the revelation that the Mother supplies. He is (IMO) a villian in need of defeating; I did spare him in Awakening but that involves a long and convoluted Meta-gaming reasoning that in no way reflect how I personally feel about him; but he is not the only Awakened we meet.

Yes the Messenger is in the vast minority of 'helpful' Awakened, and yes I will admit my interest in the Darkspawn's character is coloring my perceptions a bit, but there is the potential of allies and something useful to come out of the Architect's experiments (the magical ability to manage/control the Taint for example). The Messenger being one of the few good guys is really no different then Nathanel or Sten being one of the few good guys out of their respective families. Really that is what the Awakened are, a crazy dsfunctional family; is Nathanel to blame for the atrocities committed by his father? Sten believes in a 'religion' who's creed is:"Convert or Die." if you get down to it, but as an indiviual he has admirable qualities. 

I rather thought she was mad about the singing because the Old God was dead.  I may have just been grossed out enough to miss something in the dialog though, she was plenty disgusting.  Regarding Sten, I'll flash forward to DA 2.  I found the Arishok a fascinating character.  I don't think the qualities we're associating with Sten, as I do share your opinion, were limited to him alone.  We aren't given much of a chance to explore the Qunari, or the Qun much beyond Sten though, so it's hard to say.  I may not agree with their agenda, but I have to admire the fact that they will stick to their guns, and not bow to pressure, such as with the Elves just before the ambush is sprung.  I did notice, as well, their sense of honor.  When you beat the Arishok, they pack up and leave, no questions asked.

Nope, the Mother was insane because the Arcithect as she put it "Took away the music."

I agree with you about the Qunari and the Qun in how they are interesting characters/concepts, but I don't particularly care for the Qun belief in and of it's self. Sten and the Arishock made for dynamic characters and like you said their honor is admirable. 

[Nightdragon8]

I don't think the Darkspawn are ever going to be "allies" as it where. Considering what it requires for them to "reproduce" I mean Brood-mother anyone? Requires them to capture people eat there own and darkspawn in order to give birth to darkspawn.... yea.... no thank you...

[Vortex13]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

I don't think the Darkspawn are ever going to be "allies" as it where. Considering what it requires for them to "reproduce" I mean Brood-mother anyone? Requires them to capture people eat there own and darkspawn in order to give birth to darkspawn.... yea.... no thank you...

Why would an Awakened, or a small tribe of Awakened even need to reproduce though? 

As I understand it, Darkspawn can never die of natural causes (the ancient Darkspawn your Warden encounters in the Deep Roads for example), so procreation would be a non issue.

If the Awakened in question was evil, and he wanted to raise an army? Yeah he could 'make' more Brood Mothers, but an allied Awakened, one not interested in creating an army, could technically exist forever; which would be a good thing because fantasies typically have a way of increasing the bad***ness of a character inverse to how many exist.

[Hazegurl]

I spared the Architect for these reasons:

I think I might be the only one who thinks that fighting intelligent darkspawn is better than the mindless ones. lol! Sure intelligent darkspawn can think of tactics but that can also lead to mistakes in planning and judgement that makes them easier to handle than a million darkspawn mindlessly charging. There is also the possibility of reasoning with them instead of "See darkspawn, darkspawn see non darkspawn, killing commences"

My Warden is just a little crazy in that she actually welcomes the idea of seeing what would become of freed darkspawn. I could really careless if it led to overall peace or not.

I also found the Architect to be an interesting character. Totally did not trust him but if it meant that there could be a large number of darkspawn unable to hear the call of the old God then that means less darkspawn to fight in the next Blight and perhaps even a future deal struck with awakened darkspawn to help fight off the others.

Also, I was afraid Bioware would just replace the Architect with some generic Architect character in any future games where he is killed and I would much rather face the original.

With all that said I would not want a companion darkspawn unless Bioware can give me a good reason why that is so. I find the idea of dealing with intelligent darkspawn far more interesting than the mage/templar conflict.
If Bioware is sticking to the mage drama I still wouldn't mind running into the Architect again just to see what he is up to.

[Vortex13]

Hazegurl wrote...

I spared the Architect for these reasons:

I think I might be the only one who thinks that fighting intelligent darkspawn is better than the mindless ones. lol! Sure intelligent darkspawn can think of tactics but that can also lead to mistakes in planning and judgement that makes them easier to handle than a million darkspawn mindlessly charging. There is also the possibility of reasoning with them instead of "See darkspawn, darkspawn see non darkspawn, killing commences" 

My Warden is just a little crazy in that she actually welcomes the idea of seeing what would become of freed darkspawn. I could really careless if it led to overall peace or not. 

I also found the Architect to be an interesting character. Totally did not trust him but if it meant that there could be a large number of darkspawn unable to hear the call of the old God then that means less darkspawn to fight in the next Blight and perhaps even a future deal struck with awakened darkspawn to help fight off the others. 

Also, I was afraid Bioware would just replace the Architect with some generic Architect character in any future games where he is killed and I would much rather face the original. 

With all that said I would not want a companion darkspawn unless Bioware can give me a good reason why that is so. I find the idea of dealing with intelligent darkspawn far more interesting than the mage/templar conflict.
If Bioware is sticking to the mage drama I still wouldn't mind running into the Architect again just to see what he is up to.

Interesting points. In fact one of my meta gaming reasons I spared the Architect was because I, like you, I didn't want to encounter a 'Not Architect' character in future games, similar how you encounter the 'Not Council', 'Not Mordin', and 'Not Legion' in ME 3 should the actual characters be dead.

Also I would prefer to have the possiblity of a well done villian vs a fantasy Kai Leng any day <_<.

I also agree with your first point, in that while the Architect is (more than likely) evil, his actions have the possiblities of creating good; a la the Messenger; just like how Maleon's data in ME 2 is derived from barbaric methods, keeping it enables you to assist the Krogan better.

Edit: Sorry I ment your third point, not your first.

Modifié par Vortex13, 22 avril 2013 - 12:19 .

[Vortex13]

Made an update to the OP, I am interested to see what others think.

[Kel Riever]

Just be happy if you get 3 choices that actually matter at the end of the game, and don't have to base your decision on something that refutes any logic set up through the series of the 3 games.

[garrusfan1]

I hope the darkspawn aren't allies either

[Vortex13]

garrusfan1 wrote...

I hope the darkspawn aren't allies either

No I WANT the Darkspawn to be possible allies, I DON'T WANT the narritive to "pull a Geth" to get there though. The DA setting, specifically the turmoil in DA:I makes it entirely possible for Awakened Darkspawn to be recruited as allies (or if allies sounds too much like friends: Agents, assets, cannon fodder).

Even if you don't particularly like the Darkspawn (I find them interesting, especially the Awakened) a pragmatic Inquisitor would have to admit, that a force capable wielding magic outside of the Fade (they use their Taint) and therefore being free of the threat of possession, would be invaluable in dealing with demonic incursion. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I had no problem with the Geth story in ME 3. Legion's history of the Morning War fit in perfectly with what Tali and Legion said in ME 1 and in ME 2. Yeah he conveniently skipped over the Quarian Genocide part in his vids, but at no point did I ever begin to believe that it didn't happen in the lore. If Legion is trying to make you see his point of view, one can imagine he'd not want to dwell on his people's greatest crime.Admittedly I think they should have included that, (Legion himself even admits they did the Quarians "great harm in the Morning War" in ME 2) but even the Quarians don't seem to bring it up as often as they probably should. It does get mentioned a couple times but I saw this as a minor flaw in the general narrative rather than anything specifically to do with Legion.

I do think the Awakened Darkspawn are a more interesting addition to the lore. I get the impression that the effects of creating an Intelligent darkspawn are unpredictable, The Architect's notes seem to imply even those that works for him are pretty independent. The one who massacred all the humans and elves in the Wending Wood seemed to conduct a sadistic experiment on his own initiative, but the Messenger seemed like he genuinely wanted to help people, even if he didn't understand the danger he posed in doing so. So I feel like an individual Awakened Darkspawn could become a variety of things, allies or enemies.

I also sort of got the sense that The Architect can manipulate the taint. His promise to Aramas that he would not be infected seemed to be true, and Serranni didn't look or act like a regular ghoul.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 14 juin 2013 - 08:25 .

[Vortex13]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I had no problem with the Geth story in ME 3. Legion's history of the Morning War fit in perfectly with what Tali and Legion said in ME 1 and in ME 2. Yeah he conveniently skipped over the Quarian Genocide part in his vids, but at no point did I ever begin to believe that it didn't happen in the lore. If Legion is trying to make you see his point of view, one can imagine he'd not want to dwell on his people's greatest crime.Admittedly I think they should have included that, (Legion himself even admits they did the Quarians "great harm in the Morning War" in ME 2) but even the Quarians don't seem to bring it up as often as they probably should. It does get mentioned a couple times but I saw this as a minor flaw in the general narrative rather than anything specifically to do with Legion.

I do think the Awakened Darkspawn are a more interesting addition to the lore. I get the impression that the effects of creating an Intelligent darkspawn are unpredictable, The Architect's notes seem to imply even those that works for him are pretty independent. The one who massacred all the humans and elves in the Wending Wood seemed to conduct a sadistic experiment on his own initiative, but the Messenger seemed like he genuinely wanted to help people, even if he didn't understand the danger he posed in doing so. So I feel like an individual Awakened Darkspawn could become a variety of things, allies or enemies.

I also sort of got the sense that The Architect can manipulate the taint. His promise to Aramas that he would not be infected seemed to be true, and Serranni didn't look or act like a regular ghoul.

My main gripe with the Geth portrayal in ME 3 was the one sidedness with how they were the victims of the whole thing, and the loss of what made the Geth unique in favor of being just like everyone else. Sure the Geth mention the Killing of Quarians, but only in passing. The story grants the Geth what essentially amounts to a propaganda film in the server quest, and the Quarians by and large were shown to be cruel, idiotic taskmasters that essentially deserved to lose Ranoch. Even if you side with the Geth, the story portays the Geth as victims again, how they were forced to kill every last Quarian man, woman, and child.  ME 2 was far more balenced in terms of showing both sides to the conflict, but I'm ranting and I don't want to derail the thread.

I agree that Awakend Darkspawn are a wild card, the indiviuals are just as likely to go crazy evil (the Mother) as they are to go helpful ally (the messenger), and the Darkspawn that do to bad need to be stopped (see killed), but as an ally they present a unique advantage. Not only are the Darkspawn effective against demons, but the potential to fight fire with fire is also very useful, and would be something that an Inquisitor would find most advantous.

[Dayze]

I'm not sure Corpheus was a darkspawn; he looked all "scaly" but that could have been due to the effects of Lyrium.

Now he was definately tainted; but I think he probably falls more under "ghoul" or did anyways than a full on darkspawn.

That being said; as individuals apparently the taint was incredibly strong around them; since they were corrupting the area basically wherever they went, even the stone.

Magic-using Darkspawn; supposedly the smartest darkspawn can use magic/talk, some level of being reasoned with etc.....are we supposed to look at them all as being "Awakened" if so, that means most awakened just go along with the flow....which admitably would be easier and their "culture" so to speak, like most people they probably don't even second guess it.

As for whether Darkspawn have souls; we know awakened ones have a consciousness that can be pulled into the fade, whether its there but slumbering more or less within the unawakened I don't know.

The Robin-Hood Darkspawn and spreading the taint, there is actually one other option for how the taint gets spread.

Some freaky people in Thedas.....wouldn't be surprised if some would find the opportunity to "mate" with an awakened non-psychotic darkspawn as something of potential interest.

One thing I've wondered about was the awakened Mother's children, do broodmothers potentially have the ability to manipulate the forms of their children more to their liking while in the womb or did she mate with some uknown entity/race?

[Vortex13]

Dayze wrote...

One thing I've wondered about was the awakened Mother's children, do broodmothers potentially have the ability to manipulate the forms of their children more to their liking while in the womb or did she mate with some uknown entity/race?

That was something I always wondered as well, I always assumed that it was the process of "Awakening" the Mother that lead to her Children, but then again it might be an inate ability all Darkspawn posses. Maybe all Darkspawn have the capability to control their Taint (like the Architecht) and all Broodmothers are capable of birthing things like the Children, its just that they never have the individuality or the teaching to master said capabilites.

On a side note, I would personally like to see the Children appear in DA:I again. Their metamorphasis was always freaky (imagine what that would look like in Frostbite 2.0) and they; from a tactical perspective; served to not only act as a highly effective fear tactic, but due to their metamorphsis/transformation abilities, they can change and adapt to new situations on the battlefield. I know that most Darkspawn were afriad of the Children in DA:A, but without the insane whispers of the Mother, it might be possible for an Awakened to use one as a "pet". I would really like to see the metamorphisis process continued; what happens if the Child keeps eating? Does it revert to a grub if it can't find food? Is their a "top end" to their transformations, or will they keep growing and changing? 

All I know is that (in the hypothetical situation that such a mode is added) in MP, if one can play as an Awakened, I want to have "Summon Child" (complete with the transformation aspect) as one of their powers.