235 réponses à ce sujet

[SurfaceBeneath]

Valkyre4 wrote...
I dont know why all this sound so boring to people, or why this should make the catalyst a "Reaper King", so plain and simply, as if all of what I said above (which is a fraction of the actual creation/pirpose of the catalyst) just isnt worth mentioning.

It is like there is consistent effort out there to just try and make everything sound bad , ugly, stupid, and illogical about this game.

And I feel that this is not fair. Not saying you should like it, but just hating on everything is too much.

Well said.

[NoGround94]

Valkyre4 wrote...

NoGround94 wrote...

Valkyre4 wrote...

Seriously? The Catalyst is the Reaper King? Since when? .....

....Meanwhile everyone says how awesome ME1 was and how amazingly perfect its dialogue was, while I believe ME1 dialogue was quite ridiculous (and the VA was pretty bad) at certain moments.

All in all I see double standards all over the place. ME1 gets away with everything ****ty that it had, but hey, lets crusify ME3 for just about EVERYTHING there is to be.

The Catalyst controls the Reapers. If you've played Leviathon, you learn that the Catalyst was an AI created to maintain order, given physical form as Harbinger in the image of the Leviathons. So, technically, the Catalyst is the "Reaper King" though that is a crude term for it.

The main gripes I have with ME1 is the combat gameplay. Still don't know how many times I've said "THAT WAS ****ING BULL****" when I died or been frustrated trapped into a corner and using cheap tactics instead of epicness to win. (Mostly happens on Insanity). There was a lot of drama in the dialogue, and was a bit less realistic than ME2 and ME3. ME1 dialogue is quite a bit different from the other two because of this drama, but how you feel about that is an opinion.

Τhe Catalyst is not a Reaper. Hence he cant be a "reaper king". The catalyst is an A.I. a program that controls the reapers. That A.I. was tasked to find a solution to the pattern that kept repeating itself countless cycles. The A.I. considered the particular solution and indeed it was the perfect solution until the cycle of shepard where everything changes and an AI is presented with a different outcome for the first time.

For the first time the galaxy is truly united, for the first time organics and synthetics are joining forces and are not in war. And for the first time all this was possible because of shepard. That makes the AI question its original solution. The most common missconception -imho- I see on this board concerning the "logic" of Reapers, is that people are trying to compare the logic of an organic with the logic of a synthetic. That is completely wrong in my opinion. An AI, is bound by vastly different processing of "logic". Every single encounter with Legion, EDI or other AIs pretty much confirms this throughout the entire trilogy, yet people ignore it and think that a Reaper should be thinking as a human being...

This AI, the catalyst, realises that while its solution might have been 99,9999999999999999% correct, that 0,00000000000001% of a mistake, of a different outcome, of the Shepard outcome, is enough to make it question that very solution. Hence it wants to present / find a new solution that is for the first time presented due to the completion of the crucible and the connection it establishes with the citadel.

I dont know why all this sound so boring to people, or why this should make the catalyst a "Reaper King", so plain and simply, as if all of what I said above (which is a fraction of the actual creation/pirpose of the catalyst) just isnt worth mentioning.

It is like there is consistent effort out there to just try and make everything sound bad , ugly, stupid, and illogical about this game.

And I feel that this is not fair. Not saying you should like it, but just hating on everything is too much.

I was not "hating" on it, I was just pointing out that what you said was wrong. YES the Leviathons DID create Harbinger, and YES the Catalyst does control all the reapers. That is why I said that "Reaper King" is crude. Take a second to read my earlier post. I do like the endings. I feel that the ending was a justified and reasonable ending considering the type of story Mass Effect is. Considering that the Catalyst is the single mind of all the reapers, then every conversation Shepard has with a Reaper is a conversation with the Catalyst. OH MY GOD. That was a revelation for me! 

[DextroDNA]

To be honest, if you've ONLY JUST finished the trilogy for the first time, you haven't developed a bond to the game and the characters like we have.

We're unsatisifed with what we were left with for many reasons; for me personally it's still lack of closure to the game and its characters.

[jstme]

Valkyre4 wrote...
Sometimes I wonder if all your (and that "your" is not directed specifically to you just to be clear, it might even not be directed to you at all if you are not one of those folks) extreme hatred is blinding you from several things, or you just pretend that you dont know the real thing.
Right now you bring the all boring argument of colors... yeah thats right, the colors is the problem. Then you speak of the catalyst as the "Reaper King" who "demands" sacrifice.
Seriously? The Catalyst is the Reaper King? Since when? Is that what you understood? And how come self sacrifice is not your choice and it is his?
Look I also respect people's opinions that they dont like the endings but all this HATRED is overkill and it leads to some seriously overreacting comments. Its like people are trying so much to dissect every single thing about ME3 and turn it into a bad mess. It is sad really.
Meanwhile everyone says how awesome ME1 was and how amazingly perfect its dialogue was, while I believe ME1 dialogue was quite ridiculous (and the VA was pretty bad) at certain moments.
All in all I see double standards all over the place. ME1 gets away with everything ****ty that it had, but hey, lets crusify ME3 for just about EVERYTHING there is to be.
Sorry, but i consider this sad. :/
I am not saying you should like the game or its endings, but this has gone waaaaaay overboard already.

Crucify for everyting? Hardly.
In my opinion Tuchanka arch in ME3 is easily the best one in the entore trilogy. Humor bits in ME3 are best in trilogy, and given desperate depressive theme of the game it is an amazing achievment. Squad is more alive. Combat is a bit improved.
Multiplayer is actually nice. Oh,and ME1 has lots of flaws and i still admire the game.
But that awfull ME3 ending ruins it all for me. Worst part -it ruins not only last game but entire trilogy. Without MEHEM i could not touch it. So personally - hate for ME3 endings is not overkill. 
Call Catalyst (mr i created reapers,i control reapers they are my solution) whatever you like - Intelligence,AI,Leviathan offspring or whatever - you have to choose how to sacrifice yourself and others from short list of carefully designed forced horrible solutions that it presents to you in order to stop its previous solution.
Mordin sacrifice is epic. He wants to redeeem himself for role in genophage, nobody convinces or forces him. Actually you can try to convince or try to force him not to commit sacrifice. 
Shepard sacrifice is because Catalyst tells her/him to choose a way to commit suicide so it can look like a sacrifice. No way around it. Symbolism does not change it. Catalyst is creator of reaper solution, it is responsible for all those cycle. It openly says that it operates due to certain motives. It cannot be seen as some kind of neutral objective info dump that informs Shepard of a situation and now he/she must make a sacrifice to solve this situation.

[adayaday]

Valkyre4 wrote...

NoGround94 wrote...

Valkyre4 wrote...

Seriously? The Catalyst is the Reaper King? Since when? .....

....Meanwhile everyone says how awesome ME1 was and how amazingly perfect its dialogue was, while I believe ME1 dialogue was quite ridiculous (and the VA was pretty bad) at certain moments.

All in all I see double standards all over the place. ME1 gets away with everything ****ty that it had, but hey, lets crusify ME3 for just about EVERYTHING there is to be.

The Catalyst controls the Reapers. If you've played Leviathon, you learn that the Catalyst was an AI created to maintain order, given physical form as Harbinger in the image of the Leviathons. So, technically, the Catalyst is the "Reaper King" though that is a crude term for it.

The main gripes I have with ME1 is the combat gameplay. Still don't know how many times I've said "THAT WAS ****ING BULL****" when I died or been frustrated trapped into a corner and using cheap tactics instead of epicness to win. (Mostly happens on Insanity). There was a lot of drama in the dialogue, and was a bit less realistic than ME2 and ME3. ME1 dialogue is quite a bit different from the other two because of this drama, but how you feel about that is an opinion.

Τhe Catalyst is not a Reaper. Hence he cant be a "reaper king". The catalyst is an A.I. a program that controls the reapers. That A.I. was tasked to find a solution to the pattern that kept repeating itself countless cycles. The A.I. considered the particular solution and indeed it was the perfect solution until the cycle of shepard where everything changes and an AI is presented with a different outcome for the first time.

For the first time the galaxy is truly united, for the first time organics and synthetics are joining forces and are not in war. And for the first time all this was possible because of shepard. That makes the AI question its original solution. The most common missconception -imho- I see on this board concerning the "logic" of Reapers, is that people are trying to compare the logic of an organic with the logic of a synthetic. That is completely wrong in my opinion. An AI, is bound by vastly different processing of "logic". Every single encounter with Legion, EDI or other AIs pretty much confirms this throughout the entire trilogy, yet people ignore it and think that a Reaper should be thinking as a human being...

This AI, the catalyst, realises that while its solution might have been 99,9999999999999999% correct, that 0,00000000000001% of a mistake, of a different outcome, of the Shepard outcome, is enough to make it question that very solution. Hence it wants to present / find a new solution that is for the first time presented due to the completion of the crucible and the connection it establishes with the citadel.

I dont know why all this sound so boring to people, or why this should make the catalyst a "Reaper King", so plain and simply, as if all of what I said above (which is a fraction of the actual creation/pirpose of the catalyst) just isnt worth mentioning.

It is like there is consistent effort out there to just try and make everything sound bad , ugly, stupid, and illogical about this game.

And I feel that this is not fair. Not saying you should like it, but just hating on everything is too much.

you talk about fairness but dismiss anyone who dislike it as a plain blind hater who cannot understand?

[NoGround94]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

@ OP: You know you could load up your last save where it says "continue" after the end since you did choose Destroy and you got the Shepard Survives ending.

It goes to the point before Cronos, and load up the Citadel DLC and play it as a Post Ending DLC if you want. No one says you can't.

3....2.....1.... someone will argue with me.

Oh I see, this is a great idea! Imagination ftw. 

[NoGround94]

RussianZombeh wrote...

To be honest, if you've ONLY JUST finished the trilogy for the first time, you haven't developed a bond to the game and the characters like we have.

We're unsatisifed with what we were left with for many reasons; for me personally it's still lack of closure to the game and its characters.

<---- 3 times complete. Still like the ending. Probably due to my open-mindedness and the many many hours I've thought and researched this series. Thinking philosophically helps too. I feel bad if you can't find closure. Good luck.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Valkyre4 wrote...

still baffled at how many people wanted a cinderella ending with Shepard drinking beers with Garrus...

is there a more cliche ending these days as the hero kicking ass and survive to tell the tale?

I'd pick self sacrifice any day... and it makes much more sense anyway.

But I really can't fathom how many people desperately wanted Shepard alive... to me his sacrifice made the ending epic, made the journey count and besides Shepard in most endings lives on in some way or another.

Anyway I enjoyed the endings. Especially control and synthesis. Destroy not so much.

And yeah both my paragon and renegade trilogy playthroughs were reflective of what happened in the end of the series. Some people claim that the game is forcing a "paragon" play through. Not true. My psychopath Shepard was pretty spot on.

With that said I am sad to hear so many complaints. ME3 is not perfect, but god damnit I believe die hard haters are taking this out of proportion really.

Anyway peace out folks.

It's almost like those people were asking for choices and multiple endings that would adhere to their Shepard. I can't imagine why they would want or think that.

[NoGround94]

jstme wrote...

Valkyre4 wrote...

Crucify for everyting? Hardly.
In my opinion Tuchanka arch in ME3 is easily the best one in the entore trilogy. Humor bits in ME3 are best in trilogy, and given desperate depressive theme of the game it is an amazing achievment. Squad is more alive. Combat is a bit improved.
Multiplayer is actually nice. Oh,and ME1 has lots of flaws and i still admire the game.
But that awfull ME3 ending ruins it all for me. Worst part -it ruins not only last game but entire trilogy. Without MEHEM i could not touch it. So personally - hate for ME3 endings is not overkill. 
Call Catalyst (mr i created reapers,i control reapers they are my solution) whatever you like - Intelligence,AI,Leviathan offspring or whatever - you have to choose how to sacrifice yourself and others from short list of carefully designed forced horrible solutions that it presents to you in order to stop its previous solution.
Mordin sacrifice is epic. He wants to redeeem himself for role in genophage, nobody convinces or forces him. Actually you can try to convince or try to force him not to commit sacrifice. 
Shepard sacrifice is because Catalyst tells her/him to choose a way to commit suicide so it can look like a sacrifice. No way around it. Symbolism does not change it. Catalyst is creator of reaper solution, it is responsible for all those cycle. It openly says that it operates due to certain motives. It cannot be seen as some kind of neutral objective info dump that informs Shepard of a situation and now he/she must make a sacrifice to solve this situation.

This seems more like a respons to me then to Valkyre4. The Catalyst was created with the purpose of maintaining peace in the Leviathon Empire. I'm glad they made the MEHEM so that people who were dissatisfied with the ending could enjoy it. In a way, downloading the MEHEM is your final choice as Shepard, and so I believe that the MEHEM is a valid choice. It would be nice if the MEHEM only happened if you choose Destroy with a good War Assets ending, because then it would blend in seemlessly with the other choices. BTW I would definitely choose Destroy each and every single time if that was the case <3

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

NoGround94 wrote...

RussianZombeh wrote...

To be honest, if you've ONLY JUST finished the trilogy for the first time, you haven't developed a bond to the game and the characters like we have.

We're unsatisifed with what we were left with for many reasons; for me personally it's still lack of closure to the game and its characters.

<---- 3 times complete. Still like the ending. Probably due to my open-mindedness and the many many hours I've thought and researched this series. Thinking philosophically helps too. I feel bad if you can't find closure. Good luck.

3 times complete for me as well. 12 times for the first two. I'm getting ready for another run but this next one is going to be a bit more intense -- it'll be on the PC with Fraps running and a ton of texture mods with ME1. Followed by video editing.

And philosophically? Me? I just got over it. I hated the ending, but I use a mod now so it's all good. I don't care what anyone picks. I just have fun trolling a thread every now and then, and adding some quality content when I feel like it.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 02 mars 2013 - 11:52 .

[NoGround94]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

NoGround94 wrote...

RussianZombeh wrote...

To be honest, if you've ONLY JUST finished the trilogy for the first time, you haven't developed a bond to the game and the characters like we have.

We're unsatisifed with what we were left with for many reasons; for me personally it's still lack of closure to the game and its characters.

<---- 3 times complete. Still like the ending. Probably due to my open-mindedness and the many many hours I've thought and researched this series. Thinking philosophically helps too. I feel bad if you can't find closure. Good luck.

3 times complete for me as well. 12 times for the first two. I'm getting ready for another run but this next one is going to be a bit more intense -- it'll be on the PC with Fraps running and a ton of texture mods with ME1. Followed by video editing.

If you get that on YouTube and link it to my profile I'll so subscribe. You'd see my comments too, I have the same username on Youtube!

[Jadebaby]

PSUHammer wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

I'd highly encourage you to check out the Control ending too. It's pretty awesome and not what you might expect.

Yeah, building a god in your own image to lord over the galaxy with the enslaved desecrated corpses of trillions...
Neato...

Someone takes their science fiction a bit too seriously, perhaps?

sci-fi should be taken seriously.. Look at Mass Effect 1, it was taken very seriously, with all the background information through characters and codex's. Thety built this wonderful universe with such a rich lore. Then they did exactly what you're doing, stopped taking it seriously, figuring "hey? It's just a game." As a result we ended up with mysticism instead of sci-fi.

[Jadebaby]

NoGround94 wrote...

RussianZombeh wrote...

To be honest, if you've ONLY JUST finished the trilogy for the first time, you haven't developed a bond to the game and the characters like we have.

We're unsatisifed with what we were left with for many reasons; for me personally it's still lack of closure to the game and its characters.

<---- 3 times complete. Still like the ending. Probably due to my open-mindedness and the many many hours I've thought and researched this series. Thinking philosophically helps too. I feel bad if you can't find closure. Good luck.

lol this is so funny.

[Iakus]

NoGround94 wrote...

This seems more like a respons to me then to Valkyre4. The Catalyst was created with the purpose of maintaining peace in the Leviathon Empire. I'm glad they made the MEHEM so that people who were dissatisfied with the ending could enjoy it. In a way, downloading the MEHEM is your final choice as Shepard, and so I believe that the MEHEM is a valid choice. It would be nice if the MEHEM only happened if you choose Destroy with a good War Assets ending, because then it would blend in seemlessly with the other choices. BTW I would definitely choose Destroy each and every single time if that was the case <3

Unfortunately "they" didn't make it.  It's a fan mod.  Fans did what Bioware couldn't/wouldn't do.  

Believe me, if Bioware did make a MEHEM like dlc, I would tell them "all is forgiven" rather than feel like I've been written off.

As to the War Asset thing, it appear to be a more long-term plan, but yes there are ideas being floated about creating Low and Medium EMS versions of MEHEM.  Obviousy, those wouldn't exactly be "happy" endings, though.

[PSUHammer]

Jadebaby wrote...

PSUHammer wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

I'd highly encourage you to check out the Control ending too. It's pretty awesome and not what you might expect.

Yeah, building a god in your own image to lord over the galaxy with the enslaved desecrated corpses of trillions...
Neato...

Someone takes their science fiction a bit too seriously, perhaps?

sci-fi should be taken seriously.. Look at Mass Effect 1, it was taken very seriously, with all the background information through characters and codex's. Thety built this wonderful universe with such a rich lore. Then they did exactly what you're doing, stopped taking it seriously, figuring "hey? It's just a game." As a result we ended up with mysticism instead of sci-fi.

Um....riiiiiight.  

[NoGround94]

iakus wrote...

NoGround94 wrote...

This seems more like a respons to me then to Valkyre4. The Catalyst was created with the purpose of maintaining peace in the Leviathon Empire. I'm glad they made the MEHEM so that people who were dissatisfied with the ending could enjoy it. In a way, downloading the MEHEM is your final choice as Shepard, and so I believe that the MEHEM is a valid choice. It would be nice if the MEHEM only happened if you choose Destroy with a good War Assets ending, because then it would blend in seemlessly with the other choices. BTW I would definitely choose Destroy each and every single time if that was the case <3

Unfortunately "they" didn't make it.  It's a fan mod.  Fans did what Bioware couldn't/wouldn't do.  

Believe me, if Bioware did make a MEHEM like dlc, I would tell them "all is forgiven" rather than feel like I've been written off.

As to the War Asset thing, it appear to be a more long-term plan, but yes there are ideas being floated about creating Low and Medium EMS versions of MEHEM.  Obviousy, those wouldn't exactly be "happy" endings, though.

Oh I know it's fan made. When I said "they" i was talking about the creators. Though ME isn't Skyrim. It's harder to mod.

[UrgentArchengel]

Always good to find another person that enjoyed themselves.

[Jon The Wizard]

Good to see another enjoy the ending and the ride up to it.

[Valkyre4]

jstme wrote...

Valkyre4 wrote...
Sometimes I wonder if all your (and that "your" is not directed specifically to you just to be clear, it might even not be directed to you at all if you are not one of those folks) extreme hatred is blinding you from several things, or you just pretend that you dont know the real thing.
Right now you bring the all boring argument of colors... yeah thats right, the colors is the problem. Then you speak of the catalyst as the "Reaper King" who "demands" sacrifice.
Seriously? The Catalyst is the Reaper King? Since when? Is that what you understood? And how come self sacrifice is not your choice and it is his?
Look I also respect people's opinions that they dont like the endings but all this HATRED is overkill and it leads to some seriously overreacting comments. Its like people are trying so much to dissect every single thing about ME3 and turn it into a bad mess. It is sad really.
Meanwhile everyone says how awesome ME1 was and how amazingly perfect its dialogue was, while I believe ME1 dialogue was quite ridiculous (and the VA was pretty bad) at certain moments.
All in all I see double standards all over the place. ME1 gets away with everything ****ty that it had, but hey, lets crusify ME3 for just about EVERYTHING there is to be.
Sorry, but i consider this sad. :/
I am not saying you should like the game or its endings, but this has gone waaaaaay overboard already.

Crucify for everyting? Hardly.
In my opinion Tuchanka arch in ME3 is easily the best one in the entore trilogy. Humor bits in ME3 are best in trilogy, and given desperate depressive theme of the game it is an amazing achievment. Squad is more alive. Combat is a bit improved.
Multiplayer is actually nice. Oh,and ME1 has lots of flaws and i still admire the game.
But that awfull ME3 ending ruins it all for me. Worst part -it ruins not only last game but entire trilogy. Without MEHEM i could not touch it. So personally - hate for ME3 endings is not overkill. 
Call Catalyst (mr i created reapers,i control reapers they are my solution) whatever you like - Intelligence,AI,Leviathan offspring or whatever - you have to choose how to sacrifice yourself and others from short list of carefully designed forced horrible solutions that it presents to you in order to stop its previous solution.
Mordin sacrifice is epic. He wants to redeeem himself for role in genophage, nobody convinces or forces him. Actually you can try to convince or try to force him not to commit sacrifice. 
Shepard sacrifice is because Catalyst tells her/him to choose a way to commit suicide so it can look like a sacrifice. No way around it. Symbolism does not change it. Catalyst is creator of reaper solution, it is responsible for all those cycle. It openly says that it operates due to certain motives. It cannot be seen as some kind of neutral objective info dump that informs Shepard of a situation and now he/she must make a sacrifice to solve this situation.

For whatever reason, if what is being talked about the endings ONE YEAR after the release of the game, by some fans, is not considered OVERKILL, then i dont know what is...

Plus you keep spinning that "shepard is forced to sacrifice himself" no he is not forced. He can say fack you to the catalyst and enjoy the most retarded -yet realistic- ending of all time. It is your choice how the Reapers -ie your original goal since the first game- are dealt with. It is your choice if you want to control them, if you want to destroy them , if you want to become one with them, synthesis, or just say "screw it" and simply do nothing.

It is overkill all this thing around the endings. Ive read so many stupid things (not saying what you say is stupid) but people think that Bioware is writing some kind of personnal script for each and everyone of them out there...

Well they are not. And people should start dealing with the fact that if they dont like the ending they should really give it a god damned rest already... I dont think anything in ANY form of media has been scrutinized so much.

You want to talk about disappointing endings? check assassins creed 3.... 5 games for an ending that lasts 1 minute and is just...

ME3 had in its entirety, the best missions out of all ME. (minus the final mission which was lackluster) ME3 had the best combat of all the games, it also had immensly well done fan service, via dialogues, mentions, trivia, easter eggs etc.

It also received support and respect towards fan feedback by releasing the extended cut which actually close a lot of those supposed "plotholes" that people thought was impossible to address (omg how did they go? omg shepard killed the entire galaxy", omg they starved to death etc etc...) and it provided a better closure.

And yet people still hate so much this game that i find it extremely ridiculous. Meanwhile Skyrim is considered an rpg more so than Mass Effect, because oh.. look there are skills and alchemy's and lots of levels and power as if ROLE PLAYING GAME is about that kind of stuff and not about choices, actions and consequences... + it has a pathetic storyline and ending. Yet... game of the year!

Sorry but this double standard is just not fair. For whatever reasons you may not like the ending, saying that the entire trilogy is completely utterly destroyed is the definition of exaggeration. Bioware created a beautiful sci fi universe and you guys have indeed... "crucified".

[SeptimusMagistos]

It seems like people who first finish the game with EC installed tend to have a more positive opinion of the ending than those who don't. I know it was that way for me.

[Ticonderoga117]

AlanC9 wrote...

Only-Twin wrote...

I just hate how poorly-written the whole part with the catalyst is. I don't care about the lack of choices and whatnot, I just can't stand how that scene is so incredibly flawed. The reasoning behind the reapers is completely ridiculous.

Blame ME1 for saddling the Reapers with an irrational plan. 

Lol what?

One does not blame the work of earlier if the later work ****s it up. And besides, it was a decent plan. Leave pretty tech toys for civiliations to use and grow in ways you can predict, then bushwhack them with the tech you left behind.

[Obadiah]

@ConanTheLeader
Dumb question. As someone with a fresh reading on the Destroy EC epilogue, from the presentation given in game, were the Geth completely destroyed, and did you assume any kind of future for them (rebuilding, survive in Quarian suits, etc)?

[AshenShug4r]

Toasting in roll bread.

[mvaning]

Jadebaby wrote...

NoGround94 wrote...

RussianZombeh wrote...

To be honest, if you've ONLY JUST finished the trilogy for the first time, you haven't developed a bond to the game and the characters like we have.

We're unsatisifed with what we were left with for many reasons; for me personally it's still lack of closure to the game and its characters.

<---- 3 times complete. Still like the ending. Probably due to my open-mindedness and the many many hours I've thought and researched this series. Thinking philosophically helps too. I feel bad if you can't find closure. Good luck.

lol this is so funny.

the game is already closed minded if it requires you to have an open
mind to find closure with the ending.     Or maybe it doesn't require
an open mind.  Maybe, just MAYBE, it's something called personal
preference.  And, just MAYBE it takes an open mind to understand that
people have different preferences. 

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Have you sat back and thought about the last 10 minutes?

They simply don't jive with the rest of the series.

The op clearly has..It's just you guy's who think it does not "JIVE "with the rest of the series.