235 réponses à ce sujet

[ld1449]

mvaning wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I'm one of those people who rated it a 9 on that survey...
Then Bioware banned all discussion of IT and called it a fan theory they don't endorse or promote...

Now I rate it a negative fifty trillion...

To be fair, a good portion of non ITers tried to warn you that it wasn't gonna happen after the EC your group didn't exactly listen with an open mind.

What wasn't going to happen?

Don't listen to him, he's indoctrinated.

NO! I'M IN CONTROL! NO ONE IS TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!!!

(To answer your question. That IT would never be incorporated. It was just plain old bad writing at its worst. I brought this up to a few ITers and while some respectufully disagreed others simply labeled me a hater to put it in kind terms)

[Bill Casey]

There was nothing to incorporate...

[Mr. Gogeta34]

It would have been a brilliant move by Bioware to use the gist of IT... but because they didn't come up with it themselves, the ego of the decision-makers would rather leave the game as-is (plus, it saves money leaving ME3 as-is as well).

[Bill Casey]

Again, there's nothing to use...
The whole point of the IT ending was to never confirm or deny it...

If they confirmed it, it wouldn't have worked...

[ld1449]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

It would have been a brilliant move by Bioware to use the gist of IT... but because they didn't come up with it themselves, the ego of the decision-makers would rather leave the game as-is (plus, it saves money leaving ME3 as-is as well).

Short term anyway. Long term, well, we're seeing the begining of the consecuences with Omega, ME3's Wii-U sales (to the point that they're not even gonna bother spending money to port the DLC to the Wii-U itself.)

They're hoping that DA3 serves as a pick me up (which is why they're rushing to release it ahead of the Witcher 3) and that with the "greatness" that will be DA3 we'll all have forgotten about ME3 by the time ME4 (or whatever the hell they're gonna call it) rolls around.

Don't know about you, but that's not bloody likely on my account.

Modifié par ld1449, 03 mars 2013 - 05:08 .

[ld1449]

Bill Casey wrote...

Again, there's nothing to use...
The whole point of the IT ending was to never confirm or deny it...

If they confirmed it, it wouldn't have worked...

Huh...that's funny. Guess IT had its own sub groups divided on what exactly IT entailed/required, or didn't require.

[3DandBeyond]

ld1449 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I'm one of those people who rated it a 9 on that survey...
Then Bioware banned all discussion of IT and called it a fan theory they don't endorse or promote...

Now I rate it a negative fifty trillion...

To be fair, a good portion of non ITers tried to warn you that it wasn't gonna happen after the EC your group didn't exactly listen with an open mind.

To be completely fair, BW themselves created the IT issue.  They stated in the Final Hours app that they had considered an ending that incorporated indoctrination and a theme of indoctrination throughout the game.  It is clear to me that what happened was they had started on that content and it became too complicated (they said that it did), so they stopped making a story about it, but left the content in.

The problem is, BW is rarely straight with information and sorry to say, almost never truthful.  That's from the way I see it.  So, no matter what they'd say things that were ambiguous and that they thought was funny or teasing, things like the EC did not rule out IT and then later they'd say it did rule it out.  This is a constant issue with them.  No other game dev does this.  In fact, other devs actually want you to get excited about content that WILL be in their game, not stuff that will not be in the game.

And understand I'm not a real big fan of IT, but I have taken the time to understand the issue before I pass judgement on those who are.  BW created this mess, not ITers not anti-enders and certainly not anyone who may now proudly claim to be an ex-Bioware fan.

Here's another example.  BW stated all over the place that exploded or ruptured relays would destroy a star system and that at the end of ME3 the galaxy would be destroyed.  This was stated in interviews, video and written and in the game and in their own Final Hours app.  Fans didn't think the original endings made sense if the galaxy was destroyed.  BW decided to retcon that.  The EC came out and Walters and Hudson said they had no idea why fans thought in the original endings the galaxy was destroyed and that they had never meant for that to be the case.  So Bioware specifically said that something would happen, then showed that it didn't (when it should have) and it was fans that had the problem because they just didn't understand.  Meaning fans were stupid.  This is how they do things.  The latest "synthesis will happen" except later on they said it won't, then it might then it would or it could.  It's all a big effing joke to them.

[Arsenic Touch]

Back up your saves and reinstall mass effect 3 without updating to the EC.
Then play it and then tell us how much you enjoyed it and how you can't understand why fans are still upset. 
Then tell us how it addressed all the gripes the fans had with the original ending... and how it closed the plot holes... then tell us how it didn't open up new plot holes.... et cetera.

While you're at it, do some googling and look at all the hype generated by bioware and the statements they made that were made and how they reflected in the game.

Modifié par Arsenic Touch, 03 mars 2013 - 05:30 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

The general consensus is that people who played the game for the first time with extended cut, from ashes, and leviathan installed come away from that game with a more positive feeling at the end than people did at launch. the story better builds up to that final moment when you take all that dlc into consideration and it feels full enough to make you feel good in that moment. just dont look up the original endings unless you want to get SUPER bummed out ;L

[Obadiah]

Bravo. You turned a guy's "hey I like the ending" post into an IT defense thread.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Arsenic Touch wrote...

Back up your saves and reinstall mass effect 3 without updating to the EC.
Then play it and then tell us how much you enjoyed it and how you can't understand why fans are still upset. 
Then tell us how it addressed all the gripes the fans had with the original ending... and how it closed the plot holes... then tell us how it didn't open up new plot holes.... et cetera.

While you're at it, do some googling and look at all the hype generated by bioware and the statements they made that were made and how they reflected in the game.

Alot of people say this but alot of people dont actually think about whether those things count as plot holes or if they're actually supported by previous things in the trilogy. 


I think half of clever noob's IT video is overly analytical bull**** that proves nothing.  Shepard appears to be "gliding" as he/she walks well its a videogame and making characters feet react to the ground properly is really difficult.  Almost everything he had a problem with in those videos are supported by other things, just not shown to you directly in every single case.  The anderson on the citadel thing isnt a plot hole because after that scene you get that scene where the floor of that platform just rises up on its own, which when applied to anderson's dialogue about approaching the console, supports his claims of the citadel realigning itself.


The thing about Coats' model being used is also bunk.  They use him for his armor in that scene.  If they were going to make you think it was coats they would have shown you his face, but because they didnt its not actually a part of the game.  Videogames reuse assets in tricky ways and have gaps in geometry because its easier and quicker to build.  By not showing his face they're able to use his (better) looking armor without loading another character model into the engine.  (IIRC, Coats is the only model in the game with alliance colors and the heavy armor design from me1.  most soldiers use the medium armor design or have helmets on when using heavy armor)

Also the shepard breath scene is at the citadel decision chamber.  Shepard didnt pass out when harbinger shot him ANYWHERE near residential areas, the entire landscape was, i believe, a park area where the reapers constructed the conduit (being a wide opens space it was probably a suitable location) The textures, pipes, and broken sheet metal are the same that are used in the chamber.  Nothing used in that final breath scene is an asset from london, nor are any of those objects located NEAR shepard.

The trees thing doesnt count because, as i said, it appears to be a park area and those trees were there when you run down the hill.  its funny because harbinger cant actually hit you.  you can just sit there shooting him all day using your powers if you want.  hilairous how long fireballs take to reach him, shows how incredibly massive he is compared to the rannoch reaper.



I would actually love to go down a list and debunk people's "plot holes".  Most people just scream plot hole first wouthout applying existing logic to the scene, or allowing the clarifications brought on by leviathan and extended cut to "count".  They also treat the catalyst like it has human morals and reasoning when it clearly DOES NOT.  its a machine and it opperates like machines usually do in this case in fiction.  Why dont you complain about Data in star trek not making sense every single second of every single moment of the show while you're at it.  (starting a new documentary about how picard was never released from borg control and how the entire show is just a dream.  if you make it a dream then you get to say all the stuff you dont like doesnt count and then you can just make something that you like a whole bunch instead!!!!!)

[4stringwizard]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The general consensus is that people who played the game for the first time with extended cut, from ashes, and leviathan installed come away from that game with a more positive feeling at the end than people did at launch. the story better builds up to that final moment when you take all that dlc into consideration and it feels full enough to make you feel good in that moment. just dont look up the original endings unless you want to get SUPER bummed out ;L

I've gotten over my ending rage, but even still it boggles my mind that Bioware could have even thought the original endings were acceptable in the first place.  Even ignoring all the other complaints, themselves were just plain lazy.  You could say the ambiguity made it "deep" and "philophical" - it wasn't.  The endings were cheap.  They couldn't even bother themselves to make separate cutscenes for them - they just palette-swapped the same cinematics.  That is the height of laziness in my book.  

Which makes it even more mind-boggling how they could put so much effort into the rest of the game and yet half-ass the end so bad.  It's as if they ran out of money and said "screw it, we've got a game guys, let's just put into different colors and call it a day!" 

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Obadiah wrote...

Bravo. You turned a guy's "hey I like the ending" post into an IT defense thread.

Hey, I liked the ending. 

it was pretty cool.  edi became a real girl with real emotions and real hugs.  ;(

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

4stringwizard wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The general consensus is that people who played the game for the first time with extended cut, from ashes, and leviathan installed come away from that game with a more positive feeling at the end than people did at launch. the story better builds up to that final moment when you take all that dlc into consideration and it feels full enough to make you feel good in that moment. just dont look up the original endings unless you want to get SUPER bummed out ;L

I've gotten over my ending rage, but even still it boggles my mind that Bioware could have even thought the original endings were acceptable in the first place.  Even ignoring all the other complaints, themselves were just plain lazy.  You could say the ambiguity made it "deep" and "philophical" - it wasn't.  The endings were cheap.  They couldn't even bother themselves to make separate cutscenes for them - they just palette-swapped the same cinematics.  That is the height of laziness in my book.  

Which makes it even more mind-boggling how they could put so much effort into the rest of the game and yet half-ass the end so bad.  It's as if they ran out of money and said "screw it, we've got a game guys, let's just put into different colors and call it a day!" 

I'm really willing to bet they had to buckle under EA's pressure and ship it like that.  I think extended cut was planned all along as the LAST dlc, but it got pushed out to the front of the line because people were SO upset by the rushed nature of it.  I just wish they'd delayed the game till the next fiscal year and released it on november 7th, 2012  (N7 day!!!!) and had leviathan, from ashes, and a more elaborate ending as just part of the main quest out of the box.  It would have made for a better product in the end and let them explore NEW territory with DLC rather than just fixing thEAr mess. 

at least trilogy playthroughs are cool now.  and its great when i hear about some internet personality seeing the extended cut as their first ending and really loving the game. 

[Bill Casey]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Why dont you complain about Data in star trek not making sense every single second of every single moment of the show while you're at it.

Did you just compare the Catalyst to Commander Data?

Really?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 mars 2013 - 05:57 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Bill Casey wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Why dont you complain about Data in star trek not making sense every single second of every single moment of the show while you're at it.

Did you just compare the Catalyst to Commander Data?

Really?

well I wasnt going to compare it to the MATRIX.

Data's so ****in cool oh my god i'm sorry data. 

[Obadiah]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Bravo. You turned a guy's "hey I like the ending" post into an IT defense thread.

Hey, I liked the ending. 

it was pretty cool.  edi became a real girl with real emotions and real hugs.  ;(

Er, I actually meant "you" in the plural sense, wasn't really specifying your posts. Sorry 'bout that.

[ld1449]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Arsenic Touch wrote...

Back up your saves and reinstall mass effect 3 without updating to the EC.
Then play it and then tell us how much you enjoyed it and how you can't understand why fans are still upset. 
Then tell us how it addressed all the gripes the fans had with the original ending... and how it closed the plot holes... then tell us how it didn't open up new plot holes.... et cetera.

While you're at it, do some googling and look at all the hype generated by bioware and the statements they made that were made and how they reflected in the game.

I would actually love to go down a list and debunk people's "plot holes".  Most people just scream plot hole first wouthout applying existing logic to the scene, or allowing the clarifications brought on by leviathan and extended cut to "count".

I'm not even gonna go into clevernoobs analisis or the things said within because truth be told, the moment you need to bend the rules of the game by using a sky-cam or a free cam, then you're just reaching.

But I am going to adress this point, even ignoring all the stuff Clevernoob points out which is little more than reused textures, models and some arguable oversight, the fact remains that there are still many many *many* plot holes at the end of this game, brought on by the very words that they use, not to mention the things clearly demonstrated in most cases, or implicated in others.

There have been *Many* people that have pointed this out in various, thorough and detailed explanations. To simplify the argument into this description where people according to you don't look at the ending logically, is downright insulting. The rules of logic are the reason the ending (everything after the space elevator) makes absolutely no sense whatsoever from a purely objective standpoint, nevermind the subjectivity of the moral implications which are downright appalling.

[Tron Mega]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The general consensus is that people who played the game for the first time with extended cut, from ashes, and leviathan installed come away from that game with a more positive feeling at the end than people did at launch. the story better builds up to that final moment when you take all that dlc into consideration and it feels full enough to make you feel good in that moment. just dont look up the original endings unless you want to get SUPER bummed out ;L

I've gotten over my ending rage, but even still it boggles my mind that Bioware could have even thought the original endings were acceptable in the first place.  Even ignoring all the other complaints, themselves were just plain lazy.  You could say the ambiguity made it "deep" and "philophical" - it wasn't.  The endings were cheap.  They couldn't even bother themselves to make separate cutscenes for them - they just palette-swapped the same cinematics.  That is the height of laziness in my book.  

Which makes it even more mind-boggling how they could put so much effort into the rest of the game and yet half-ass the end so bad.  It's as if they ran out of money and said "screw it, we've got a game guys, let's just put into different colors and call it a day!" 

I'm really willing to bet they had to buckle under EA's pressure and ship it like that.  I think extended cut was planned all along as the LAST dlc, but it got pushed out to the front of the line because people were SO upset by the rushed nature of it.  I just wish they'd delayed the game till the next fiscal year and released it on november 7th, 2012  (N7 day!!!!) and had leviathan, from ashes, and a more elaborate ending as just part of the main quest out of the box.  It would have made for a better product in the end and let them explore NEW territory with DLC rather than just fixing thEAr mess. 

at least trilogy playthroughs are cool now.  and its great when i hear about some internet personality seeing the extended cut as their first ending and really loving the game. 

at what point in developing a trilogy does "make a coherent ending" become a concern?

in my opinion the things i like about ME3 are all because of EA(money for voice actors, multiplayer, much improved combat), while the things i dont like are all brought to us by bioware(poor writing, lack of vision).

[Landon7001]

Valkyre4 wrote...

still baffled at how many people wanted a cinderella ending with Shepard drinking beers with Garrus...

is there a more cliche ending these days as the hero kicking ass and survive to tell the tale?

I'd pick self sacrifice any day... and it makes much more sense anyway.

But I really can't fathom how many people desperately wanted Shepard alive... to me his sacrifice made the ending epic, made the journey count and besides Shepard in most endings lives on in some way or another.

Anyway I enjoyed the endings. Especially control and synthesis. Destroy not so much.

And yeah both my paragon and renegade trilogy playthroughs were reflective of what happened in the end of the series. Some people claim that the game is forcing a "paragon" play through. Not true. My psychopath Shepard was pretty spot on.

With that said I am sad to hear so many complaints. ME3 is not perfect, but god damnit I believe die hard haters are taking this out of proportion really.

Anyway peace out folks.

In a series all about player choice with a proclaimed 16 different endings, at the end of an entire trilogy spent personalizing this extension of you and all the relationships with characters you love in this roleplaying game, there should absilutely have been SOME ending showing shepard living.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

ld1449 wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Arsenic Touch wrote...

Back up your saves and reinstall mass effect 3 without updating to the EC.
Then play it and then tell us how much you enjoyed it and how you can't understand why fans are still upset. 
Then tell us how it addressed all the gripes the fans had with the original ending... and how it closed the plot holes... then tell us how it didn't open up new plot holes.... et cetera.

While you're at it, do some googling and look at all the hype generated by bioware and the statements they made that were made and how they reflected in the game.

I would actually love to go down a list and debunk people's "plot holes".  Most people just scream plot hole first wouthout applying existing logic to the scene, or allowing the clarifications brought on by leviathan and extended cut to "count".

I'm not even gonna go into clevernoobs analisis or the things said within because truth be told, the moment you need to bend the rules of the game by using a sky-cam or a free cam, then you're just reaching.

But I am going to adress this point, even ignoring all the stuff Clevernoob points out which is little more than reused textures, models and some arguable oversight, the fact remains that there are still many many *many* plot holes at the end of this game, brought on by the very words that they use, not to mention the things clearly demonstrated in most cases, or implicated in others.

There have been *Many* people that have pointed this out in various, thorough and detailed explanations. To simplify the argument into this description where people according to you don't look at the ending logically, is downright insulting. The rules of logic are the reason the ending (everything after the space elevator) makes absolutely no sense whatsoever from a purely objective standpoint, nevermind the subjectivity of the moral implications which are downright appalling.

I actually dont really see all that much wrong with the logic of the endings truth be told, and as I said, I would love to have a solid list to just pick apart.  (it would be a fun challenge)     

(sorry if I insulted you)  



As far as the moral implications, Theres one interseting thing I want to bring up about the destroy ending:
When I first played the game I picked destroy and said "Well i dont want to kill the geth kitties but its the only way to make sure this gets done, even if i get wiped out too"  During the breath epilogue I was really surprised.  When shepard survived my immediate thought was "Maybe the geth survived too?"  This was the AT THE MOMENT of completion on march....i believe i took 8 days to beat the game so it would have been 14th while avoiding all internet and social activity.

Fast forward to extended cut.  If your EMS is high enough the line about the geth dieing is REMOVED from starchild's speech, its still there if your ems is low enough (i believe the cutoff is 2800?).  Now, while the geth dont have a slide in this ending, if your first experience with the ending IS the high ems destroy ending you would actually have no reason to think the geth were dead.  nothing in the ending supports this other than a missing slide (you also miss miranda, jack, and the rachni queen's slide in most high ems destroy endings)  Only those of us that played the game at launch would think "The geth died in this ending" without doing extra research.  (which is ironic because my first analysis of the ending at launch was that the geth must have miraculously survived if shepard did too)


I just thought I'd bring that up.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 03 mars 2013 - 07:43 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Landon7001 wrote...

Valkyre4 wrote...

still baffled at how many people wanted a cinderella ending with Shepard drinking beers with Garrus...

is there a more cliche ending these days as the hero kicking ass and survive to tell the tale?

I'd pick self sacrifice any day... and it makes much more sense anyway.

But I really can't fathom how many people desperately wanted Shepard alive... to me his sacrifice made the ending epic, made the journey count and besides Shepard in most endings lives on in some way or another.

Anyway I enjoyed the endings. Especially control and synthesis. Destroy not so much.

And yeah both my paragon and renegade trilogy playthroughs were reflective of what happened in the end of the series. Some people claim that the game is forcing a "paragon" play through. Not true. My psychopath Shepard was pretty spot on.

With that said I am sad to hear so many complaints. ME3 is not perfect, but god damnit I believe die hard haters are taking this out of proportion really.

Anyway peace out folks.

In a series all about player choice with a proclaimed 16 different endings, at the end of an entire trilogy spent personalizing this extension of you and all the relationships with characters you love in this roleplaying game, there should absilutely have been SOME ending showing shepard living.

there...was an ending where shepard lives.

[Alien Number Six]

At first I thought it was a bit short. Extended Cut changed that and gave us the kick in the face refuse ending which was also great.

[Meltemph]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Stop right there with the minority talk! BSN represents a veeeery biased portion of the fanbase. While you might well be in the minority on this site (though even then, it's hard to say), it's completely unknown if you're in the minority of total players.

That being said, I've found that most people enjoy the EC if it's their first experience with the endings. Glad you enjoyed it.

It is PROVEN through various surveys on multiple websites the people that like the ending are the minority

No, it isn't. Stop making things up.

Polls show the Pro-enders are a minority on BSN but that is all. Evey other larger vote has shown quite the opposite (game of the year votes for instance). The largest survey that I know of was the Collaborative EC survey.

www.mediafire.com/view/

I suggest you turn your attention to figure 10 and you'll see just how wrong your assertion is. More people like the EC endings than those who don't. Which gave it a 7.1 average rating in the end. Hell, I just put it here too so everyone can see...

You may want to read ALL of the entire draft, otherwise, I doubt you would be posting that as proof of people liking the ME3 ending, after EC.  Seems you are confused as to what it is infering.

[Forsythia]

Power to the OP, I guess, I wish I could feel the same.