616 réponses à ce sujet

[thebigbad1013]

Mark of the Dragon wrote...

I disagree with the op here. How do you define happy? Do you mean an ending where our main character live?

Either way Mass Effect's ending were not hated by the majority because they were not happy. The reason people were angry is because 1) it brought no closure and 2) the choices contradicted themes throughout the game. Yes some were angry they did not get an ending where Shepard but the did not seem to be the mian reason people were angry about the ending, most of the time.

I would never want to see a Bioware game with a perfectly happy, peachy keen ending. For me happiness is not really derived from whether my character lives but whether I accomplished what I set out to do. Yes I do get happy when my character survives but I was also happy in DAO's ultimate sacrifice because I ultimatly stopped the blight and gave Ferelden a king in AListair. Things looked well for the nation.

I do think it helps to have endings where the main character can live or die but not based on the games completion rate. I prefer the sadder endings where the hero sacrifices himeself for the greater good. I should not be denied that because I have a 100% completion. Instead it should be based on the descision we make at the end or even throughout the game as a whole. Basing it on completion rank virtually means most people will get the same ending everytime.

What Inquistion really needs are more "diverse" endings. Endings that not only change the fate of our hero but of the world as well. Not just endings that change colors (ME) or that have me side with a group then fight all the same people (DA2). Farthemore some kind of sacrifice should always be made. This is a mature dark fantasy and having our hero live and everything come out fine would be a betrayal to the game.

Another thing is I really hope we see closure for our main character. DAO did it ok but DA2 had no closure for Hawke what so ever. He was MT character and I want to do know how his involvment in the expanded universe ends.

I was gonna do a whole post on this subject but this one pretty much sums it up perfectly.

[-TC1989-]

Mark of the Dragon wrote...

I disagree with the op here. How do you define happy? Do you mean an ending where our main character live?

Either way Mass Effect's ending were not hated by the majority because they were not happy. The reason people were angry is because 1) it brought no closure and 2) the choices contradicted themes throughout the game. Yes some were angry they did not get an ending where Shepard but the did not seem to be the mian reason people were angry about the ending, most of the time.

I would never want to see a Bioware game with a perfectly happy, peachy keen ending. For me happiness is not really derived from whether my character lives but whether I accomplished what I set out to do. Yes I do get happy when my character survives but I was also happy in DAO's ultimate sacrifice because I ultimatly stopped the blight and gave Ferelden a king in AListair. Things looked well for the nation.

I do think it helps to have endings where the main character can live or die but not based on the games completion rate. I prefer the sadder endings where the hero sacrifices himeself for the greater good. I should not be denied that because I have a 100% completion. Instead it should be based on the descision we make at the end or even throughout the game as a whole. Basing it on completion rank virtually means most people will get the same ending everytime.

What Inquistion really needs are more "diverse" endings. Endings that not only change the fate of our hero but of the world as well. Not just endings that change colors (ME) or that have me side with a group then fight all the same people (DA2). Farthemore some kind of sacrifice should always be made. This is a mature dark fantasy and having our hero live and everything come out fine would be a betrayal to the game.

Another thing is I really hope we see closure for our main character. DAO did it ok but DA2 had no closure for Hawke what so ever. He was MT character and I want to do know how his involvment in the expanded universe ends.

Totally agree with the DA2 ending. To me there was just not enough of a connection or time with Hawke to have a cliffhanger ending. I'd take ME3's ending way before Hawkes only because the history I had with Shepard, and the series left me to better express my imagination of what could happen after all the things that happened. Honestly I didn't really care about Hawke enough to spend that much time thinking where he went at the end.

[Shallyah]

You got it wrong, OP. The main lesson is to allow players to feel like their choices matter. doesn't matter squat if it's a happy ending or not as long as it feels like it was earned.

Modifié par Shallyah, 02 mars 2013 - 07:41 .

[Massa FX]

The lesson: Some people don't want to spend money on a video game to see their avatar die a painful death, or a hinted at death.

Most people play games to enjoy them, not get a life lesson. Video games used to be a form of escapism from real life. A way to relieve stress. Now video games are here to inform players that life is difficult. Excuse me? I learned that when I was a mere child. Thanks, but no thanks.

Amuse me. Make me laugh. Make me a hero. Make me feel good. Make me do incredible things. Make me defeat enemies. Make me work hard for all that... and then kill me off? No. just No.

[Bekkael]

Happy is nice as an option, but I think no matter what, a heroic ending that doesn't make you feel like a depressed failure is essential.


Brent Knowles comments on game endings is basically my gospel.

I was fine with the ending to both Dragon Age titles, so I don't forsee a bad ending from DA3.

[Blazomancer]

The main lesson to learn from the ME3 ending imho is that endings that are punctured through and through with loopholes aren't generally well received, and specially when you mix up mysticism in the final few moments of an arc which was sci-fi throughout. I'm not getting how a happy ending comes into the picture.

Keeping that aside, I always like happy endings, although that doesn't mean a story having a sad ending can't be awesome. I'd prefer a good plot in general rather than just a fairy tale ending to a mediocre plot. I mean, if the plot demands, let the protagonist die, but let it be heart wrenching, let his/her death have some weight.

[Dabrikishaw]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Not this again.... ME3's ending isn't hated because it isn't "happy".

[Sir George Parr]

The choice for a more up beat ending for the PC should exist alongside any other potential outcomes. DA Origins could do it and as for DA2 without The Exalted March its hard to say how that might have ended. But DA does do bittersweet rather well. My impression of ME3 at the end is just bitter.
I certainly don't expect the inquisitor to come out of DA inquisition smelling of roses and skipping off into the sunset arm in arm with the Li.
just prefer to leave the pc at a more hopeful moment feeling that their world is full of such possibilities.

[AlanC9]

Bekkael wrote...

Happy is nice as an option, but I think no matter what, a heroic ending that doesn't make you feel like a depressed failure is essential.

Why would anyone feel like a depressed failure at the end of ME3? Reapers? Defeated. Galaxy? Saved. (Obviously Refuse is a failure, but the PC should be allowed to fail if the player wants.)

I get that some folks do feel that way, but I don't have a good idea what's permissible here and what isn't.

[Volus Warlord]

No, no.

ME3's pre-extended cut destroyed EVERYTHING and left NO HOPE for the future. The Mass Effect Universe was essentially annihilated or at best in question prior to the extended cut.

So, the issues with the ending were:

1.) Futility. The endings were all very similar, very negative and had next to nothing to do with your decisions. All your everything meant nothing in the end.

2.) The ending brought up more questions than it answered, and answered very few existing questions. No closure.

3.) The ending changed the very nature of the enemy in the last 5 minutes in the game. I'm all for well done twists, but so big and so late it just wrecks the integrity of the story. No completely changing the enemy in the last 5 mintues plz.

The ending does NOT have to be all sunshine and rainbows. But it shouldn't be some redundant dystopian clusterfudge that makes everything seem meaningless. It should give us a sense of closure or accomplishment, not "You achieved nothing and nothing you can do will change that. Btw everything you believed up to this point was wrong." So make the choices matter, give us closure, and don't rewrite the book in the last chapter.

[Izana]

I can't see this as a lesson. What Mass Effect did is irelevant to what Dragon Age will do. Not only that, but happy endings have been present in the two games (Well, maybe. It hard to see what catagory DA2 endings fits in.)

Personally, I find happy endings being something unrealistic. When a dangerous journey ends with a perfect victory and nothing lost, it feels too unreal. I'm not saying that every happy ending is bad, but they only make sense to me when it's earned with good reason.

[Plaintiff]

The main lesson of ME3 was that people will **** no matter what.

There's only one actual problem with the ending, and it's not that it wasn't happy enough.

[ReptilePZ]

Let's not pretend ME3's ending was great and people hated it because they couldn't handle Shepard dying.

What BioWare need to learn from ME3's ending is that they need to make sure player choices throughout the game(s) have an effect on the ending. Giving us 4 choices out of the blue was kinda lame. Fine, keep those 4 major choices - but flesh them out a lot more and make sure we don't get to choose from all 4 of them at the very end - that just renders all player actions up to that point irrelevant. Let the game take into acount what the player's done so far in the campaign so that then results in one of those 4 endings - keep them in separate playthroughs, not the same one.

Don't forget the companions. ME3's original ending completely shat on everybody I cared about by sticking them on a random planet without any explanation about what happens to them. This is something they messed up in DA2 as well (which is a game that had a ton of problems throughout the entire campaign, not just the ending and the MMO-like sidequests ME3 had).

Not to mention that they completely forgot to mention what happens to the galaxy after the Reapers had been dealt with. They did address most of those concerns in the extended ending (even if it was a bit half-assed for something that was as ambitious as the ME trilogy, though they didn't really have a lot of time for it), which is a step in the right direction.

Modifié par ReptilePZ, 02 mars 2013 - 08:18 .

[Mikoto8472]

Massa FX wrote...

The lesson: Some people don't want to spend money on a video game to see their avatar die a painful death, or a hinted at death.

Most people play games to enjoy them, not get a life lesson. Video games used to be a form of escapism from real life. A way to relieve stress. Now video games are here to inform players that life is difficult. Excuse me? I learned that when I was a mere child. Thanks, but no thanks.

Amuse me. Make me laugh. Make me a hero. Make me feel good. Make me do incredible things. Make me defeat enemies. Make me work hard for all that... and then kill me off? No. just No.

This, definately this. I don't buy my games to see my avatar die a painful death or worse, a vague hinted death. Nor do I play games to get an ending where my avatar just 'disappears' like in DAO and especially DA2.

Closure, a sense of satisfaction and a possible happy ending if you try hard enough WITHOUT forcing multiplayer on me.

An ending that makes sense is a bonus, too.

[Blight Nug]

KingsTiger wrote...

Makes perfect sense to me. There is a place for dark endings, brutal lessons that sometimes you just can't win. A videogame is not that place. We go there to live another life, one where our actions ultimately determine our fates. You can tell a dark tale, take a serious look at serious issues, but this is not a medium suited for tales of life's capriciousness. You can make us work for it, but the possibility of victory should never be taken off the table.

I very much agree with this.
Ultimately video games are about bring ther players joy and fullfillment. If I know ahead of time that game has a ending where the players and effort and emotional investment are nullified and punished, I just won't play it.

[Renmiri1]

No I think the real lesson of ME3's ending is that the writers can't think of game players as a captive audience that will take whatever crap they shovel and just stay silent.

It is an INTERACTIVE medium, not a movie theater. If I pay $10 for a movie and I don't like it, I get up and leave or endure the 2 hours of it and avoid the director from then on. If I pay $60 and spend 300 hours on anything I expect that my taste and opinion will be taken into consideration when you want me to spend 40 additional hours on it.

And I'll be very pi$$ed off when you shovel bad written Deus Ex tackled on stuff and try to claim it is "art". Dont ****** me in my face and try to tell me it is raining.

With that said, I have a big respect for the DA team and have no fear that they will be idiotic as the ME leadership was. DA2 had fairness to all corners of the fanbase as one of it's biggest tenets, witness the response to the whining that Anders being bi breaks my macho game. ME3 simply gave 8 LI to male Shepard and 4 to female Shepard and pulled the "artistic integrity" card.

The DA team is cut from a completely different cloth. I trust them. Happy ending or bittersweet ending or even tragedy I trust the DA team will be fair and think about it's audience as people not wallets.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 08:28 .

[Bekkael]

AlanC9 wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

Happy is nice as an option, but I think no matter what, a heroic ending that doesn't make you feel like a depressed failure is essential.

Why would anyone feel like a depressed failure at the end of ME3? Reapers? Defeated. Galaxy? Saved. (Obviously Refuse is a failure, but the PC should be allowed to fail if the player wants.)

I get that some folks do feel that way, but I don't have a good idea what's permissible here and what isn't.

The entire tone and mood of the last half hour of ME3 was the most depressing and sad experience I have ever had while reading a story or playing a video game. For me personally, it was complete and utter fail. I don't pay money and invest my time in a hobby to be made to feel bad, and that's all I have to say about the ME3 ending.

To me, the Dragon Age games have done endings right, and it's one of many reasons why it's my favorite franchise. You can fight and struggle, and suffer many sad and devastating losses (I cried like a baby over Mom Hawke) but the PC still has the option to live through it all, and be stronger and harder for it. Bottom line for me: don't kill my character as the only ending choice. Let me die, let me fail, but also give me a choice to live through it.

I promise you, if ME3 had given me that option to feel triumphant it would be among my favorite game experiences ever, instead of what I consider to be my most awful and bitter.

This is my opinion and experience. YMMV.

[Fredward]

If the happy ending is an option only then fine. But I like mah bittersweetness. So if there is a happy ending I'd like for it to be kind of a cop out, where the protag just chooses to leave or skip away merrily off into the sunset with his/her LI. Personally I would detest an ending that was completely sunshine and rainbows. Luckily Bioware's track record isn't leaning in that direction.

[Volus Warlord]

EntropicAngel wrote...

The main lesson of ME3 is that people don't understand happy endings.

Sentient spaceships who've harvested the galaxy for MILLENNIA MILLENNIA MILLENNIA being destroyed = happy ending. Or if not happy, then certainly, absolutely, having accomplished the objective.

If you don't understand that, well, that's not Bioware's problem.

You sound like the people from the bug report forum who tried to tell me bugs were my fault.

[Huyna]

DA3 and Inquisitor needs Artistic Integrity.  Like that – after long andhard final battle and unavoidable dramatic scripted sacrifices a mortally wounded protagonist will discover giant cave.  Within this cave three giant crystals located - orange, purple and brown. Than a child-like being will appear from nowhere, tell the player that he is Maker and  he is the one  who created the Blight, to prevent Darkspawn to destroy every life (do not doubt his logic, it’s above primitive mortal mind to comprehend). And then player will have to choose. And no matter what  Inquisitor  will die.  Epic!  Lot’s of speculations for everyone.

Modifié par Huyna, 02 mars 2013 - 08:37 .

[Bekkael]

EntropicAngel wrote...

The main lesson of ME3 is that people don't understand happy endings.

Sentient spaceships who've harvested the galaxy for MILLENNIA MILLENNIA MILLENNIA being destroyed = happy ending. Or if not happy, then certainly, absolutely, having accomplished the objective.

If you don't understand that, well, that's not Bioware's problem.

No Greg, that isn't the problem. Yes, technically Shepard "wins", but it isn't just about the galaxy as a whole, it's the personal stories. It's the story about the characters near and dear to the player, and that includes Shepard.

If I heard you jumped on top of a grenade and saved the lives of 20 people, I would honor you. I would admire you. Would it be a happy ending to me just because you saved so many lives? No. It would be bitter, tragic and painful, and I would cry and mourn you forever.

Maybe we are looking at the same picture from very different angles.