616 réponses à ce sujet

[Twisted Path]

This honestly would be the best lowest common denominator solution. Some people seem to get really unhealthily attached to the player character in these sorts of games and get upset when bad things happen to what's become their little avatar.

Personally I'm fine with any ending that's coherent and consistent with the rest of the game, happy, sad, surreal or whatever. That's the problem with the ending of Mass Effect 3 (and a lot of books by Steven King, who has the same problem): it's obvious they didn't know how to end the story and just pulled something weird out of nowhere.

[Saibh]

ME3's ending was thematically inappropriate in it's vanilla state, and this is my problem with it.

That it doesn't have a shining, happy ending is not. I will happily disregard the opinions of anyone who thinks a game is only as good as its happy ending.

That said, it's clear BioWare is kind of setting up for a game that no longer even pretends to take your decisions seriously. They've been stuck between a rock and a hard place recently with giving the player some amount of control over their world and also trying to account for a franchise's future. People simply get (rightfully) upset if they feel their decisions are being retconned or disregarded, so I do not think we are in for an ending we have much influence on. Therefore the quality of it is entirely determined by how well it is written and how much it can conceivably make sense with the path that led you there.

Not by whether it's just so happy or not. 

Modifié par Saibh, 02 mars 2013 - 11:01 .

[AlanC9]

Saibh wrote...
That said, it's clear BioWare is kind of setting up for a game that no longer even pretends to take your decisions seriously. They've been stuck between a rock and a hard place recently with giving the player some amount of control over their world and also trying to account for a franchise's future. People simply get (rightfully) upset if they feel their decisions are being retconned or disregarded, so I do not think we are in for an ending we have much influence on. Therefore the quality of it is entirely determined by how well it is written and how much it can conceivably make sense with the path that led you there.

I wouldn't be that pessimistic.There have been lots of games with big choices. The impractical thing is carrying all those choices into the sequels forever; not having choices themselves. Unless the gamers of today aren't able to put up with, say, what a Fallout 2 player accepted.

[Solmanian]

Meh, the ending is somewhat irrelevant since the DA series games don't share protagonists. Whatever happens to the inquisitor, won't largely effect the protagonist of DA4.

[brushyourteeth]

I think we can hope for at least a few meaningful (not earth-shattering, but meaningful) choices in the next installments, since M-Law has said that they're investigating better ways to import.

My climate remains "lightly optimistic."

[Saibh]

AlanC9 wrote...

I wouldn't be that pessimistic.There have been lots of games with big choices. The impractical thing is carrying all those choices into the sequels forever; not having choices themselves. Unless the gamers of today aren't able to put up with, say, what a Fallout 2 player accepted.

It isn't really pessimism--I think it would be incredibly silly of them to continue to let the player make "big" decisions and then have no follow-up. It's a logical conclusion, and I think, even if I like making decisions, the better one.

[Icinix]

No. The main lesson is to have ending dialogue, structure, characters and events make sense with the game.

Happy / Sad / Horribly Depressing - doesn't make a crap of different on enjoyment levels - but if a player is sitting there going 'wait, this doesn't make sense' that's going to kill it and kill it good for a l of people.

[Rawgrim]

The main lessons from ME3 is: Don`t ignore the lore. And don`t do auto-dialogue.

[Wulfram]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I think we can hope for at least a few meaningful (not earth-shattering, but meaningful) choices in the next installments, since M-Law has said that they're investigating better ways to import.

My climate remains "lightly optimistic."

What would make me optimistic about meaningful choices being available is being told that they'd given up on imports.

[Icinix]

Rawgrim wrote...

The main lessons from ME3 is: Don`t ignore the lore. And don`t do auto-dialogue.

Also this. In fact - so much this for the whole game.

[Bryy_Miller]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I think we can hope for at least a few meaningful (not earth-shattering, but meaningful) choices in the next installments, since M-Law has said that they're investigating better ways to import.

My climate remains "lightly optimistic."

Asking for anything more is almost always going to lead to disappointment.

All games need to follow the same plot, regardless of if they have branching story (i.e. Witcher 2) or not. This isn't D&D. This isn't a procedurally-generated story (which would be horrible and impossible to do coherently anyway). 

[Direwolf0294]

Yes. My most hated thing about ME3 is that Shepard gets screwed at the end. Give me an ending with a deus ex machina character, riddled with plot holes and altogether poorly constructed and so long as there's a happy ending for the PC, I won't care. The grimdark endings that have become popular in recent years are getting really boring, and I wish BioWare would buck the trend.

[Sjpelke]

Wulfram wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I think we can hope for at least a few meaningful (not earth-shattering, but meaningful) choices in the next installments, since M-Law has said that they're investigating better ways to import.

My climate remains "lightly optimistic."

What would make me optimistic about meaningful choices being available is being told that they'd given up on imports.

True........
In so far that there still could be made meaningful choices. Problem would be to import them into the next installment if they are relateted to the overall story as in being arching decisions that inflict the whole of Thedas. If only story/ current game related, and unfinished storylines from previous games being wrapped up, have no problem with them.
Have no idea if that is possible though after the two games that came out at this point .

OverallI I like to see things return in the next installment from the previous but major plot related stories should not interfere with the overall game play/story. Side quests could still be used for game import to show former characters that played their role. Major things should be left open entirely, or taken care of, as there are to many things to consider the more games come out.

Tying loose ends now and use imports for recognitions sake in the form of side quests is a good balance of zots use imho.

[andrew252]

i dont mind if its a happy or a sad ending,as long as it isnt an ass pull like star child and the choices i made UP to the point determine what i get,not on the very last conversation and i what i say picks what ending

[pmac_tk421]

krul2k wrote...

no victory ever comes without cost

Exactly. Look at the end of DAO, a game that most Bioware fans agree was good. Spoilers ahead. If for some reason you're on the DA3 forum and haven't played DAO, you have been warned. Either someone dies to kill the archdemon or you give Morrigan a child with enourmous power that she can control as she see's fit. And what if Flemeth gets it? In ME1, you sacrifice the council and their ship with a crew of 10,000, or you sacrifice 8 alliance cruisers, each with a crew of around 300. ME3, all endings end with Shepard dead except for the ending where you genocide the geth and all other synthetics.

[Starfang]

I'm happy with sad or "bad" endings so long as they are a result of my actions, decisions or if it's something I could have prevented had I only done _____. In fact, I would adore a tragic ending that was self-inflicted if, as my character's world is crumbling around them, I could look back and go "Oh, that's where I went wrong. Dammit." Basically, sad/tragic endings are gold so long as you can logically explain WHY everything went so terribly wrong (even if only in hindsight) and have the power to prevent it if you're insightful/observant enough to see it coming.

[Hurbster]

andrew252 wrote...

i dont mind if its a happy or a sad ending,as long as it isnt an ass pull like star child and the choices i made UP to the point determine what i get,not on the very last conversation and i what i say picks what ending

Agreed. NO sad hammer either, please. And if there is a choice at the end, make the consequences count. Don't give us another DA2 rush job, where the ending is exactly the same which faction you choose. And a neutral option, the amount of times I wish I could just say 'that's it - goodbye' in DA2 was ridiculous. 

Also not ripping the endings directly from another game series would be great as well.

[andrew252]

Kiatta wrote...

I'm happy with sad or "bad" endings so long as they are a result of my actions, decisions or if it's something I could have prevented had I only done _____. In fact, I would adore a tragic ending that was self-inflicted if, as my character's world is crumbling around them, I could look back and go "Oh, that's where I went wrong. Dammit." Basically, sad/tragic endings are gold so long as you can logically explain WHY everything went so terribly wrong (even if only in hindsight) and have the power to prevent it if you're insightful/observant enough to see it coming.

kindof like orzamar in DA where the quests you do will actuly show up in the epoliouge......but in ab ad way since orzamar likes to screw the good players over

[Menethra]

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

The failure of the ME3 ending(s) had nothing to do with it's lack of hapiness. If you want sunshine and rainbows at the end of every story go write fan fiction.

There's a crapton of Liara fans on these forums that will disagree with that assessment of yours.

That said to the OP in DA:O you could die or live depending on your choices, that was good. DA2 didn't give you much of a choice regarding your characters fate you were pigeoned into a single ending regardless of whatever you did throughout the game. Hopefully DA3 will go back to DA:O's choices deciding how things play out living or dying.

[Fast Jimmy]

I need an ending that takes into consideration my past choices, allows for lots of variability and has lots of details. It does not need to be inherently happy. The Ultimate Sacrifice ending of DA:O was great. Sad, but great. You see the people mourn and respect your choices, the. Hear about how all of your actions in your quest affected the lives of other, for good, bad or indifferent.

Happy doesn't have anything to do with it. It is about closure and details. THAT'S what Bioware should learn about ME3's endings... as well as DA2's.

[AshenShug4r]

Don't care if the Inquisitor dies, as long as it makes sense.

[Urazz]

Rawgrim wrote...

The main lessons from ME3 is: Don`t ignore the lore. And don`t do auto-dialogue.

Nah, the auto-dialogue is fine but it would only work if you did it from the start of the series.  If we had auto-dialogue from the start of the Mass Effect series then people wouldn't have been nearly as pissed off about it in my opinion.  DA2 had auto-dialogue in it as well but you didn't see that as a common complaint.

Anyways, the big thing I think Bioware can learn from ME3 is to not give a half-assed ending.  People want closure and not big gaping plot holes and questions.  It doesn't matter if the ending is happy or sad as long as it's well done.

Modifié par Urazz, 03 mars 2013 - 01:22 .

[JWvonGoethe]

Bekkael wrote...

Happy is nice as an option, but I think no matter what, aheroic ending that doesn't make you feel like adepressed failure is essential.

Brent Knowles comments on game endings is basically my gospel.

Iwas fine with the ending to both DragonAge titles, so I don't forsee a bad ending from DA3.

From Brent Knowles' post:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

This I would agree with. Having one basic ending is fine (ie. kill the Archdemon.) However, introduce variety - not only by showing the player the impact of their choices, but also by adding a few meaningful choices at the end.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games... life in general is full of ****ty stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

This I find more troublesome. If I roleplay as a fundamentally flawed character (eg. self-centred and aggressive) it might not make narrative sense for them to have a happy ending. GTAIV had multiple endings and I got the "bad" ending. Still, I found it pretty satisfying from a narrative point of view becase it emphasised the ultimate futility of being a violent criminal.

On the other hand, a virtuous character has to risk making sacrifices in order to demonstrate traits such as selflessness and bravery. For these kinds of characters, I'd like to see their virtuous sacrifices have an impact at the end of the game (and the choice at the end of DA:O is a great example of that.)

So bittersweet is fine with me. I haven't played ME3 yet, but I wonder if much of the backlash against the ending had more to do with a perception that the player's choices throughout the series ultimately had no impact rather than whether or not the ending was happy enough.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 03 mars 2013 - 01:57 .

[TMZuk]

Dasher1010 wrote...

That's the truth. Just make the Inquisitor able to have an ending where he/she lives if it's a completionist playthrough.

It's absolutely not the truth.

If you want to present an absolute, then the main lesson is two-fold:

1. More than ~one~ ending. It takes more than a different coloured lightshow to create different endings. DA:O had different endings. ME3 had had the same ending in different colour.

2. Endings that makes sense, that reflects the consequence of the choices I have made during the game(s) and that does not rely on the conjuring of a Deux ex Machina (read: Starbrat) out of nothing!

Modifié par TMZuk, 03 mars 2013 - 01:44 .

[andrew252]

here's hoping that not at the end a deamon comes up and offers you 3 things it can do to end the game