171 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

78stonewobble wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...
Its neither. Its I-want-the-game-to-retain-a-resemblance-of-balance-so-it-doesn't-get-boring-to-see-lobbies-full-of-the-same-thing.


If you were around during the release of the Krysae, then its pretty much exactly like that.

Well obviously the game should be designed around your subjective preferences and not what other people find fun.

I vote we remove running and Krogans first.

 

Not just me, of course. But losing a chunk of the playerbase because they might have an issue with seeing the same kit over and over seems like it might be worth addressing, no?

[kaileena_sands]

HolyAvenger wrote...

kaileena_sands wrote...
But I don't think getting outscored by potentially worse players is the main reason, I suspect that most of the times the real reason is actually the old "it's not enough that I am good and succeed, others should fail".

 

Its neither. Its I-want-the-game-to-retain-a-resemblance-of-balance-so-it-doesn't-get-boring-to-see-lobbies-full-of-the-same-thing.


If you were around during the release of the Krysae, then its pretty much exactly like that.

You may say this for yourself (and on that point I certainly agree with you, it would be boring if everyone plays only EDI/TGI), but after reading a lot of the topics flying around on nerfing EDI, I can say with fair certainty that for a lot of players the reason behind wanting nerfs are just petty things. In fact, I remember one post from a topic that explicitly said he/she doesn't like when bad players can do well on gold. That's the human race for ya. xD

Has there been so many only-EDI lobbies that it is already a major issue? To be honest, I haven't seen her too much in PUGs, especially considering the lol amount of Juggernauts/Brollectors.

[N7 Spectre525]

HolyAvenger wrote...

kaileena_sands wrote...
But I don't think getting outscored by potentially worse players is the main reason, I suspect that most of the times the real reason is actually the old "it's not enough that I am good and succeed, others should fail".

 

Its neither. Its I-want-the-game-to-retain-a-resemblance-of-balance-so-it-doesn't-get-boring-to-see-lobbies-full-of-the-same-thing.


If you were around during the release of the Krysae, then its pretty much exactly like that.

I've never been in a pug lobby with more than two of the same characters...ever. You guys are blowing this stuff way out of proportion, just like the bs about most pugs being bad which is outright false.

[JiceDuresh]

Are you really that clueless? You really think bioware cares about your personal preferences when it cones to balance? If asked the question 'would you still play the ghost if it gets nerfed' is yes, then what the hell does it matter if it's nerfed or not?

That some people like a class and a re good with it doesn't mean it doesn't have unfair advantages over other classes other people who are good at the game also like. Why should your precious character be treated specially and get more advantages over someone elses character?

Balance changes are designed to adress this by making sure everything is viable and doesn't feel as if your playing with a handicap. Why is it your ghost should be allowed to demolish an atlas in 3 seconds but it takes my havoc a good minute to widdle it down and constanly having to put himself in danger to do it?

Most characters can't do with power combos what a geth soilder does in 6 seconds with a flamer, and that's just stupid that people are ok with that.

Modifié par JiceDuresh, 03 mars 2013 - 12:09 .

[Padyshar]

kaileena_sands wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Play whatever it is that you want to play.

Let the haters hate.

This, so much this.

A thing that a lot of BSNers can never understand is the old saying "live and let live". And I am not talking about abysmal pugs. I am talking about the so-called here "bad players" that can only play gold using a "crutch" class like a TGI or recently EDI-clone.

If you ask me, everyone should be grateful about the TGI and EDI. Why? Because, simply, everyone wants to play gold and get a lot of credits. Naturally, a lot of people overreach and fail miserably. Usually at the expense of their team. What is the worst aspect of bad pugs? For me, it's their constant dying (and not medigelling afterwards). If I have someone in the team that ended gold with 30k, but helped with objectives and didn't go down a lot/medigelled, rocketed in a bad situation... he's never getting kicked, and I won't goon the forums and post a topic  like a stupid crybaby  and complain about how pugs suck and show my l33t score.

So what is actually the most important thing about the TGI/EDI that makes them so OP? They don't DIE. They eliminate the biggest annoyance of subpar pugs. And what's even more fun to note is that even with such "OP" characters, they won't score very much either. But they'll survive most of the time so that the rest of us don't have to solo/duo wave after wave. And that, for me is a good thing.

Why? Because I am not one of those that  strictly think that people shouldn't play above their level. IF they don't cause much grief to the team, uhmmm... why not? It's the fault of the terrible RNG after all. With the many URs that sometimes seems to have a drop rate of 0.0000000001%, I totally understand why they want to play gold and get more money without being ready for it. I look at it this way - they are screwing the RNG, and I can fully support that.

I simply cannot understand why people are bothered that so called "bad players" will do well with an "OP" kit. It's quite fun for me when someone says "it's because you don't like being outscored, lol, score wh*re" and of course in return those people immediately get super defensive and say that it's a matter of principle or something. But I don't think getting outscored by potentially worse players is the main reason, I suspect that most of the times the real reason is actually the old "it's not enough that I am good and succeed, others should fail".

tl;dr

Just play whatever you like, and don't forget that games were not meant as second jobs, after all most of us do have real ones. Games are meant to be fun, so have fun in whatever way you like except cheating/griefing. There will always be a person that will tell you that the Fury/Demolisher/Quarian Engineer/BatSol/Destroyer/ Paladin/Infiltrators/Kroguard/Novaguard/EDI/every kit in the game save for 1-2 like the BatSent is OP anyway, and that you suck, so there's absolutely no reason to listen to them. 

Cheers to this... Very eloquently put.

[HolyAvenger]

kaileena_sands wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

kaileena_sands wrote...
But I don't think getting outscored by potentially worse players is the main reason, I suspect that most of the times the real reason is actually the old "it's not enough that I am good and succeed, others should fail".

 

Its neither. Its I-want-the-game-to-retain-a-resemblance-of-balance-so-it-doesn't-get-boring-to-see-lobbies-full-of-the-same-thing.


If you were around during the release of the Krysae, then its pretty much exactly like that.

You may say this for yourself (and on that point I certainly agree with you, it would be boring if everyone plays only EDI/TGI), but after reading a lot of the topics flying around on nerfing EDI, I can say with fair certainty that for a lot of players the reason behind wanting nerfs are just petty things. In fact, I remember one post from a topic that explicitly said he/she doesn't like when bad players can do well on gold. That's the human race for ya. xD

Has there been so many only-EDI lobbies that it is already a major issue? To be honest, I haven't seen her too much in PUGs, especially considering the lol amount of Juggernauts/Brollectors.

 

I think there's a misreading happening. There is absolutely a learning curve to gold and many players who try it out are not ready for it. That doesn't bother me, I'm happy to play with pretty much anyone in Gold (I never kick). But that learning curve involves working out successful tactics and a level of knowledge about gameplay (spawn mechanics, soft-cover, when to retreat, when to attack etc). Using AIU honestly seems to nullify a lot of these, meaning that players who use her to get into Gold probably aren't leaning the right things, which is unhealthy in the long term as well. So I think a lot of players are concerned about that too. There is an aspect to this with the Juggernaut too, to be fair, but not to the same level I believe.


Maybe its observer bias, but I think I've played with a lot of AIUs in the last few days. Juggernauts too, but not as many. Hardly any Cabalguards, KroLords or Collectors, to be honest.

[ISHYGDDT]

I play whatever I'd like because I play to enjoy myself not to make BSN happy.  I don't judge anyone else for doing the same.

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 03 mars 2013 - 12:13 .

[drmoose00]

my opinion is ...who cares

[kaileena_sands]

HolyAvenger wrote...

kaileena_sands wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

kaileena_sands wrote...
But I don't think getting outscored by potentially worse players is the main reason, I suspect that most of the times the real reason is actually the old "it's not enough that I am good and succeed, others should fail".

 

Its neither. Its I-want-the-game-to-retain-a-resemblance-of-balance-so-it-doesn't-get-boring-to-see-lobbies-full-of-the-same-thing.


If you were around during the release of the Krysae, then its pretty much exactly like that.

You may say this for yourself (and on that point I certainly agree with you, it would be boring if everyone plays only EDI/TGI), but after reading a lot of the topics flying around on nerfing EDI, I can say with fair certainty that for a lot of players the reason behind wanting nerfs are just petty things. In fact, I remember one post from a topic that explicitly said he/she doesn't like when bad players can do well on gold. That's the human race for ya. xD

Has there been so many only-EDI lobbies that it is already a major issue? To be honest, I haven't seen her too much in PUGs, especially considering the lol amount of Juggernauts/Brollectors.

 

I think there's a misreading happening. There is absolutely a learning curve to gold and many players who try it out are not ready for it. That doesn't bother me, I'm happy to play with pretty much anyone in Gold (I never kick). But that learning curve involves working out successful tactics and a level of knowledge about gameplay (spawn mechanics, soft-cover, when to retreat, when to attack etc). Using AIU honestly seems to nullify a lot of these, meaning that players who use her to get into Gold probably aren't leaning the right things, which is unhealthy in the long term as well. So I think a lot of players are concerned about that too. There is an aspect to this with the Juggernaut too, to be fair, but not to the same level I believe.


Maybe its observer bias, but I think I've played with a lot of AIUs in the last few days. Juggernauts too, but not as many. Hardly any Cabalguards, KroLords or Collectors, to be honest.

Hmm, that's an interesting view (the bolded part especially), and once again I'm sorry but I'll have to say that I think your opinion is in the minority. From the veeeery little we've played together, and your posts around I can say you seem like a cool guy and giving a damn about PUGs learning the stuff right is really nice. But don't lie to yourself - most people aren't like you, the majority don't give a rat's as* whether PUGs are learning the right things, and gaining good knowledge. People are selfish and they don't care about others learning, and would rather throw them under the bus if they see they'll profit somehow from this.

P.S. I've been totally like only playing the Cabalguard these days (with some AJA/AA in-between), we should play some time and give dem underplayed characters some love. 

[Chealec]

Use whatever you like, but if I enter a lobby with 3 infils (of any stripe) I will be leaving again immediately (well, unless I feel like playing an infil).

[HolyAvenger]

kaileena_sands wrote...

Hmm, that's an interesting view (the bolded part especially), and once again I'm sorry but I'll have to say that I think your opinion is in the minority. From the veeeery little we've played together, and your posts around I can say you seem like a cool guy and giving a damn about PUGs learning the stuff right is really nice. But don't lie to yourself - most people aren't like you, the majority don't give a rat's as* whether PUGs are learning the right things, and gaining good knowledge. People are selfish and they don't care about others learning, and would rather throw them under the bus if they see they'll profit somehow from this.

P.S. I've been totally like only playing the Cabalguard these days (with some AJA/AA in-between), we should play some time and give dem underplayed characters some love. 

 

Well maybe I'm an optimist, but honestly I think most of the players who play gold+ regularly want more people playing those difficulties, and playing them well. What profit is there in throwing someone under the bus here? 

Yeah sure hit me up any time. 

[kaileena_sands]

Chealec wrote...

Use whatever you like, but if I enter a lobby with 3 infils (of any stripe) I will be leaving again immediately (well, unless I feel like playing an infil).

Or take a HA with shockwave and proceed to troll them hard (especially when they're sniping). 
And don't forget, it's not important that you hit the enemies with the shockwave, but that you stand right next to the infiltrator. That way, you can return some nice aggro to them as well (standing behind them is the optimal strategy for screenshake + them absorbing bullets). 

[Padyshar]

JiceDuresh wrote...

Are you really that clueless? You really think bioware cares about your personal preferences when it cones to balance? If asked the question 'would you still play the ghost if it gets nerfed' is yes, then what the hell does it matter if it's nerfed or not?

That some people like a class and a re good with it doesn't mean it doesn't have unfair advantages over other classes other people who are good at the game also like. Why should your precious character be treated specially and get more advantages over someone elses character?

Balance changes are designed to adress this by making sure everything is viable and doesn't feel as if your playing with a handicap. Why is it your ghost should be allowed to demolish an atlas in 3 seconds but it takes my havoc a good minute to widdle it down and constanly having to put himself in danger to do it?

Most characters can't do with power combos what a geth soilder does in 6 seconds with a flamer, and that's just stupid that people are ok with that.

Hmm.. well, for one, it's all about skillset.
A Havoc is incapable of cloaking. a TGI is incapable of Havoc Strike. That two different characters (dispite char models) have different methods for different mobs is what gives flavor to this game. By eliminating this, you take the very variety you're claiming to try to preserve. Your Havoc can't set a recon mine, either, or put something in stasis, or fling it like a ragdoll with throw, either... does that make it unfair to you? Is it unfair to someone playing, say, a Salarian Engineer, when you pop your stim pack and charge a group of critters that would cut said Salarian into ribbons, while you calmly lay waste to them? Guess you're not thinking of fair on those occasions, yes?
The point is this: all characters have strengths and weaknesses that can be used in a solid team to make a seamless, efficient and formidable combination. If you feel like you're fighting with a handicap, maybe you need to step up your game, and exploit your character's strengths instead of bemoaning it's weaknesses or whining about the superior tactics/abilities of someone else's kit. This game is supposed to be about teamwork. Find your niche in the group and do your job to get the mission done and the credits in your account. If you don't want to be part of a team, then go play solo.
"A team comprises a group of people or animals linked in a common purpose. Teams are especially appropriate for conducting tasks that are high in complexity and have many interdependent subtasks."
This is from Wikidpedia. There are quite a few here that could benefit from this.

Modifié par Padyshar, 03 mars 2013 - 12:50 .

[Manbearpig]

painforest wrote...

I only play OP classes and I suck at this game. But I can only top score why I go tryhardmode and if I don't topscore I get all butthurt. True story.

This.  I'm just a noob with a lancer and an asari huntress.

[Zjarcal]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

I play whatever I'd like because I play to enjoy myself not to make BSN happy.  I don't judge anyone else for doing the same.

[MaxShine]

Good players who play so called op kits as well as players who play what they enjoy are the scum of the earth.

Modifié par 100RenegadePoints, 03 mars 2013 - 12:53 .

[BouncyFrag]

As the dirty, mic'less pug player that I am, I can only look down from my fortress of solitude and contain my burning disdain for those resorting to use such kits of abomination with a silent vigilance only known to great warriors of old.....not really. The AIU is an easy build to roll with and noticed how much gold collector matches are less stressful thanks to her...it. I'm having more fun with my bloodpack volus with the new smg and batarian gauntlet. Its a blast and even more ridiculous/fun when you can clutch a wave charging hate punches all over the map to the silent awe of your fallen squadmates.

[JiceDuresh]

Padyshar wrote...


Hmm.. well, for one, it's all about skillset.

You missed the boat with that one, big time.  Differences in style and differences in efficiency are not the same thing.  I'm good with the havoc and can beat ghost players fairly often, however, if I take a ghost and harrier, I'd beat the pants off my own havoc every time.  I like how the havoc plays that's why I use it, but it does not mean the ghost doesn't have an unfair advantage over it.  

How they play never changes in balance changes, only how efficient they are.  Singularity still does what singularity always did, its just better at doing it now.  When cloak got nerfed, it still did what is said its supposed to do.

Also, if its a team game, why should some team members have to work harder to get the same results?  Yes its easy to extract if your team is comprised of an edi, geth soilder and a ghost.  But if I come in with a saboture, suddenly I become the dead weight, because everyone else is so efficient at killing that my sabotage never even gets a chance to go off before everything is dead and theres no actual challenge to overcome..  Is that really your idea of how a team is supposed to work, watch the guys who took the op classes play and you just shut up and like it? No thanks.  My idea of a good game when playing as a team is when anyone can take any character they like and they all come out roughly equal in the end having sone sense of accomplishment for doing something dificult.  Dispite peoples greed, not everyone plays for just credits. 

Modifié par JiceDuresh, 03 mars 2013 - 01:06 .

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

IDGAF. I play what I wanna play with the weapon I want to use.

[Padyshar]

JiceDuresh wrote...

Padyshar wrote...


Hmm.. well, for one, it's all about skillset.

You missed the boat with that one, big time.  Differences in style and differences in efficiency are not the same thing.  I'm good with the havoc and can beat ghost players fairly often, however, if I take a ghost and harrier, I'd beat the pants off my own havoc every time.  I like how the havoc plays that's why I use it, but it does not mean the ghost doesn't have an unfair advantage over it.  

How they play never changes in balance changes, only how efficient they are.  Singularity still does what singularity always did, its just better at doing it now.  When cloak got nerfed, it still did what is said its supposed to do.

Also, if its a team game, why should some team members have to work harder to get the same results.  Yes its easy to exteact if yourteam is comprised of an edi, geth soilder and a ghost.  But if I come in with a saboture, suddenly I become the dead weight, because everyine else is so efficient at killing that my sabotage never even gets a chnace to go off before everything is dead.  Is that really your idea of how a team is supposed to work, watch the guys who took the op classes play and you just shut up and like it? No thanks.  My idea of a good game when playing as a team is when anyone can take any character they like and they all come out roughly equal in the end having sone sense of accomplishment for doing something dificult.  Dispite peoples greed, not everyone plays for just credits. 

Honestly, I don't think any of the characters in this game could be considered "Dead Weight", as every one of them fills a niche in a good team. Did you somehow miss the rest of what I said about bemoaning your weaknesses? if Sabotage is failing, break out 'nade capacity and blow some mobs up! Maybe hack that Prime so the others have some breathing room to knock it out! Set up your Sentry Turret to help thin out an enemy approach... quit complaining and DO something to step up your game! I played a Salarian Engineer for a long time... loved the class because it was one of the first I got really good at... do you think I complained because, at first ( I was fairly new to the game and wasn't very inventive with it yet) all I could do without dying in a gold or platinum was hide behind a counter and throw decoy? Negative. I started trying out different weapons, different equipment, different skills... and suddenly I was doing better. in the meantime, did any of my teammates complain about me pulling my wieght? Again, negative. I did what I had to do to support the team. If you can't handle that, then I agree with you on this: This is not a fun game for you. If solo achievment is all that's on your agenda, I can recommend several single player games that may help you with your need to exceed over others, and then you won't have to worry about "dead weight"!

Modifié par Padyshar, 03 mars 2013 - 01:21 .

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I don't care what kit you use but if you use TGI or MILF-Bot (MILF = Microprocessors I'd Love to F***) I expect you to top the scoreboard and not die very much

If you don't you are a scrub & shall be despised....

[ZiRK]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

IDGAF. I play what I wanna play with the weapon I want to use.

^This is the pro attitude of almost any game, of any genre

The scrub attitude is

"Oh wow hes using X with X, What an X"

[Kalas Magnus]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

IDGAF. I play what I wanna play with the weapon I want to use.

[ThelLastTruePatriot]

xTh3xBusinessx wrote...

Ok so Im fed up of seeing the nerf threads on here. I know we will see more but I decided to at least try to be constructive here. I just want to know what people think of decent and above players who just happen to like a so called "crutch" character.

For instance, I love turians and I love infiltrators. So TGI is my main regardless if he would have been bad etc. I do objectives, rocket when I see the need, revive when I can, and average at LEAST 100k a game on gold/platinum (Not U/U). I also play a variety of other classes such as the Fury, MQE, Slayer, vanilla HA, and GE. I just happen to love turians, infiltrators, and always wanted to play as EDI.

Im speaking out for other good players as well. It seems like everyone on BSN keeps pointing their hate at the bad PUGS using an OP class and groups anyone who uses them in the same box. So...like the title says, what if the player is actually really good and just likes playing as their favorite race etc?

 Honestly? **** BSN sometimes, the bullcrap that passes along in this forum would quickly nauseate a ranch hand. I play several kits and there are several kits I enjoy. I'd like to think I am a solid player. I play for fun, not to impress anyone else or attempt in some sad way to look elite. That being said, the TGI is one of my favorite characters too, I don't HAVE to play him, obviously since I've played since the start of the mutiplayer, I have played other characters as well. I've always loved infiltrators, and that goes all the way back to when I only had access to the human infiltrators. The AIU is just another kit in a long line of infiltrators that I enjoy, as well as the various other classes that have steadily been introduced. It keeps the game fresh and fun for me, so really, damn to what anyone on the forums thinks on the matter. If you enjoy a class, keep playing. If you suck with a class? keep playing, you'll get better, and just ignore what people say here.

[megabeast37215]

If it's a Gold lobby... unless someone is a total scrub, I see no reason to use the OP kits. If it's a Plat lobby... anything goes. Bring on the OP brutality.

I personally do not want to play a Gold game with a bunch of Infiltrators toting powerful weapons... there just isn't enough to kill for everyone.