289 réponses à ce sujet

[Original Twigman]

masleslie wrote...

The real problem with this whole debate is the different perspective of experienced Gold/Plat players and less experienced Silver players.

G/P players say she is OP and should be nerfed. They then list all the other characters that make good Gold starters.

Silver players know they struggle on Gold with most of those alternative characters.

 I don't think i've played a silver game since.... August? I have no clue...

no... thats not the difference in perspective.

The difference is that some have this idea that rezzing/shield regen equates to more kills/better gameplay performance... while the others don't view it that way....

I am in the latter view

Modifié par Original Stikman, 04 mars 2013 - 11:09 .

[Lucky]

Original Stikman wrote...

 I don't think i've played a silver game since.... August? I have no clue...

no... thats not the difference in perspective.

The difference is that some have this idea that rezzing/shield regen equates to more kills/better gameplay performance... while the others don't view it that way....

I am in the latter view

My DPS is always the same whether I'm dead or alive to stinkman. Scrubs just need to learn how to kill things while they are dead and every other character can be as good as the AIU!

[Cassandra Saturn]

pretty much the reason why they should learn first from good players rlucht

[cowwy]

My problem is that Stikman keeps setting up strawmen and it's getting a little tiresome to have to keep refuting these points that no one is arguing so plz stahp.

[Cassandra Saturn]

cowwy wrote...

My problem is that Stikman keeps setting up strawmen and it's getting a little tiresome to have to keep refuting these points that no one is arguing so plz stahp.

would't you rather have him doing something for a change?

[Original Twigman]

cowwy wrote...

My problem is that Stikman keeps setting up strawmen and it's getting a little tiresome to have to keep refuting these points that no one is arguing so plz stahp.

quote a strawman of mine, pls. I am open to seeing one if i made one. if i was quoting someone, please put that in there as well.

[Taritu]

Get rid of the free medigels and she's still top tier. It's ridiculous.

[Original Twigman]

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

cowwy wrote...

My problem is that Stikman keeps setting up strawmen and it's getting a little tiresome to have to keep refuting these points that no one is arguing so plz stahp.

would't you rather have him doing something for a change?

I don't get it...?

[cowwy]

Original Stikman wrote...

masleslie wrote...

The real problem with this whole debate is the different perspective of experienced Gold/Plat players and less experienced Silver players.

G/P players say she is OP and should be nerfed. They then list all the other characters that make good Gold starters.

Silver players know they struggle on Gold with most of those alternative characters.

 I don't think i've played a silver game since.... August? I have no clue...

no... thats not the difference in perspective.

The difference is that some have this idea that rezzing/shield regen equates to more kills/better gameplay performance... while the others don't view it that way....

I am in the latter view

[Original Twigman]

cowwy wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

masleslie wrote...

The real problem with this whole debate is the different perspective of experienced Gold/Plat players and less experienced Silver players.

G/P players say she is OP and should be nerfed. They then list all the other characters that make good Gold starters.

Silver players know they struggle on Gold with most of those alternative characters.

 I don't think i've played a silver game since.... August? I have no clue...

no... thats not the difference in perspective.

The difference is that some have this idea that rezzing/shield regen equates to more kills/better gameplay performance... while the others don't view it that way....

I am in the latter view

.... it was my take on it... i don't get it... it has nothing to do with the actual nerf/buff argument... so why does it matter? I think it was a closer perspective than what the guy i quoted had

Modifié par Original Stikman, 05 mars 2013 - 07:40 .

[cowwy]

I'll agree that you were closer to the point but still missing it entirely. The point is that RM is an ungodly abomination of a power that does way too many things for about zero penalty. Less actually because it ignores cooldowns as well. The multiplicative damage bonus for shotguns on TC is just the icing on an absurdly massive cake.

[Original Twigman]

cowwy wrote...

I'll agree that you were closer to the point but still missing it entirely. The point is that RM is an ungodly abomination of a power that does way too many things for about zero penalty. Less actually because it ignores cooldowns as well. The multiplicative damage bonus for shotguns on TC is just the icing on an absurdly massive cake.

There ya go. Thats the other (more reasonable stance). The stance i presented is there (for many posters) and has arguments that are easy to dissasemble, but continue to pop up, nonetheless.

The otherside (no nerf) is this:

The benefits of RM aren't extraordinary enough to cause concern to the game as a whole.

its at an impasse, and unfortunately, its mostly moot, as bioware will decide what to do with balance changes, usually without giving a reason.

While i agree, there aren't really any severe penalties, i think the disagreement is that I just don't see the need to make a penalty... (again, with the stance that the benefits... bla blah blah)

[Lucky]

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

pretty much the reason why they should learn first from good players rlucht

You missed my point entirely. Did you even read what I said? If a hilariously overpowered character makes the difficulty easy they don't learn anything because nothing new or improved is required of their play. All the AIU does is trivialize gold and plat.

Growth comes from challenge.

[darkpassenger2342]

Original Stikman wrote...
The difference is that some have this idea that rezzing/shield regen equates to more kills/better gameplay performance... while the others don't view it that way....

You must never have been a fan of role playing games, because reraise and regen has no business being on a high damage dealing character. its disgraceful.
its not about score though.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 05 mars 2013 - 08:07 .

[Schachmatt123]

cowwy wrote...

I'll agree that you were closer to the point but still missing it entirely. The point is that RM is an ungodly abomination of a power that does way too many things for about zero penalty. Less actually because it ignores cooldowns as well. The multiplicative damage bonus for shotguns on TC is just the icing on an absurdly massive cake.

The infinite revives are even better then gel. Geling after get downed leaves you with no shields, insta RM revive does not only gives you a shieldgate, but 75 DR if you choose evo 6a.

[Xaijin]

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

xtorma wrote...

DoingItRight wrote...

i think the character is fine the way it is now, if people dont like her for whatever reason then dont ****ing use it.

is as simple as that

You don't understand IT WILL RUIN THE ENTIRE GAME. People will leave in droves like they did during the krysae infil crisis and they will have to shut the game down for evers! Look at the game now! every pug game on gold now has at least 3 aiu in it and they run around dieing all the time and just popping back up, while they get kill streaks constantly! You won't even get to fire a shot! you will have to play an aiu or you will get kicked from every lobby. Can't you see how dangerous this character is!

It must be nerfed. Nerf it like they nerfed the krysae, its the only way to be sure.

calm down, it's not end of your life, relax, take a break from the MP

umm no. I like playing the mp. I would like to continue playing the mp.

The AIU is just like the Tau Commander was in Dawn of war II. So ridiculously broken that TLS mode became redundant, and the entirety of DoW2's co-op mp literally pretty much imploded after the challenge was removed from it (they went from 50,000 active to 1000 in one month) and it's been the same for any other MP before this with a completely weakness free character.

Modifié par Xaijin, 05 mars 2013 - 08:11 .

[cowwy]

Stikman I'm not proposing to add a penalty because that hasn't/won't happen to any power. All I'm thinking is a reduction in duration to about half and maybe a reduction in either movement speed or shields regenerated.

I apologize for not quoting but I'm on my phone.

[ToughReason]

IMO , Changing TC Shotgun evo to TC Heavy Pistol / SMG evo , Switching Snap Freeze with Cryo Blast , Removing DR and auto rez from RM and she will be fine
New / less geared players have enough benefit from playing with more experienced / well geared players in same lobbies .. the game now don,t looks like 9 th march 2012 - entire Avenger / Mantus teams soothing like 5 good minutes to handle with single Atlas . Now we have more weapons and kits , free Fire and Cryo explosions. isnt this enough benefit ?
We pass Falcon nerf , BE and Stasis nerf , the Krysae madness and the glorious days of BW X and Carnifex .... so we can survive few lolobot cuts too.

[masleslie]

I will try to explain this simply...

Just because you can achieve insane high scores while being indestructible with the AIU doesn't mean every player will be able to do that.

Just because some players behave stupidly with her, running around ignoring the basics of the game, doesn't mean that every player will do that.

Just because you could move up to Gold with other characters doesn't mean that every player will be able to do that - you might simply be better than them.

In fact for an idea of the typical Silver players experience of stepping up to Gold without the more powerful Reckoning characters read this post. Rather than learning 'bad habits' playing the AIU some players might at least be able to get a feel for how the game plays at Gold, learn enemy behaviour etc, without lying on their back feling like they are a burden to their team.

Maybe If Gold/Plat players feel she 'trivialises' the difficulty & it's too easy they will leave in droves. Alternatively they could just not play her. Either way the largest percentage of the player base is still on Silver anyway so the world won't end without you.

If sufficient numbers of Silver players can be encouraged to step up to Gold by characters like the AIU or Juggy that can only be a good thing. With no more DLC to come, long after you have gone, they will still be playing & keeping the game alive because of the fresh challenge of the higher difficulty they otherwise may never have attempted.

[Lexa_D]

Heri is the voice of reason in a sea of self-indulgence. Strange to see some high-class players to advocate "fun", as if only it's OPness make it "fun" to play.

Edit: once they nerf EDI

Modifié par Lexa_D, 05 mars 2013 - 10:22 .

[Twinkles DeVere]

Rib0flavin wrote...

Saints944 wrote...

I don't even see it pugs and the ones I do suck anyway.

This

However many times BSN complains a character is OP or immortal - I always find pugs that make it suck.

Leave it alone. It's in fashion now, but I played for hours yesterday and I didn't see THAT many of them. 

Modifié par Twinkles DeVere, 05 mars 2013 - 10:26 .

[Zorinho20_CRO]

I was happy,when got MILF-Bot from Gift pack,because it allowed me to play Gold right from the scratch.

[Pee Jae]

masleslie wrote...

I will try to explain this simply...

Just because you can achieve insane high scores while being indestructible with the AIU doesn't mean every player will be able to do that.

Just because some players behave stupidly with her, running around ignoring the basics of the game, doesn't mean that every player will do that.

Just because you could move up to Gold with other characters doesn't mean that every player will be able to do that - you might simply be better than them.

In fact for an idea of the typical Silver players experience of stepping up to Gold without the more powerful Reckoning characters read this post. Rather than learning 'bad habits' playing the AIU some players might at least be able to get a feel for how the game plays at Gold, learn enemy behaviour etc, without lying on their back feling like they are a burden to their team.

Maybe If Gold/Plat players feel she 'trivialises' the difficulty & it's too easy they will leave in droves. Alternatively they could just not play her. Either way the largest percentage of the player base is still on Silver anyway so the world won't end without you.

If sufficient numbers of Silver players can be encouraged to step up to Gold by characters like the AIU or Juggy that can only be a good thing. With no more DLC to come, long after you have gone, they will still be playing & keeping the game alive because of the fresh challenge of the higher difficulty they otherwise may never have attempted.

I like this Asari. She understands.

[Cassandra Saturn]

indeed