289 réponses à ce sujet

[Lexa_D]

ScumbagVince wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Flaming Snake wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Lexa_D wrote...

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

the point behind my OP is not about soloing or about kits i'm saying you can't call nerf for a character without understanding how she works.

Would the 4 gold extractions allow you to understand the game?

lol this guy has changed his name numerous times, but never changes his  sig, hes been proven to be a liar on multiple occasions.
he cant be too bright.

Apparently he's gone from being a guy, to a girl as well.

Also, he owns numerous fighter jets. He's totally legit. 

and a software company, and hes a computer designer, and a moderator on 10 other forums. dont forget a military officer.

He's also friends with Katee Sackhoff.

Wow, you live and learn...

[avenging_teabag]

Quite a few responses in this thread actually made me angry. Like, really angry, ready to alt+F4 BSN away. Raging over an opinion on an online videogame, never thought I'd see the day.

This line about EDI "teaching bad habits" is such horse****, I don't even know where to begin. The TGI b*tchfest that raged here after the Retaliation used the exactly same crappy reasoning - it wasn't true then, and it's not true now. 1. Most players who use highly survivable kits to adjust to a new difficulty, will eventually move on to other kits. Let me tell you, I was an intermediate silver/gold player prior to retaliation. After Retaliation, and a sudden unexplicable difficulty spike that it brought, I dropped back to silver because I couldn't handle it - and used the TGI to ease my way back. I'm still using the TGI now and then because i love Infiltrators (it's my favorite class in SP too), but I can and do run any character, any weapon, any build on Gold, and do fine. Same with my friend who used the Kroguard. 2. Even if using the sexbot does teach those mysterious bad habits, so what? What's in it that affects you personally? NOTHING.

And ffs, don't give me the 'Scrubs that can't play ruin mah Gold PUGs, wah, wah" excuse. If you go PUGging, you agree implicitly that you can get some teammates who are not up to snuff. Or play underequipped. Or have bad connection. Or don't speak English. Or don't synergise with the team. Or like to go Rambo and die. Or play kits that are OP. Don't like it? Tough ******, leave the lobby then (I do now, when I see a Krolord in a PUG). Or play private - you have that option too.

I'm sure that the character was designed from the ground up for exactly that purpose - be a crutch via which a new/less skilled players could jump difficulties - do you think that the developers are so dumb that they didn't realize what they were creating? The only semi-legit complaint re: EDI that I've seen is that they take grenades from grenadier classes (the same was true for the TGI as well), especially on grenade-poor maps. Still, if you use a grenadier, and you enter a lobby which already has one grenade user in it, maybe it's YOU who should change your kit. As a courtesy, you know, especially if that other grenade user is hosting.

All the rest of this torrent of words really can be summed up like: "WAH WAH THOSE SCRUBS DUN WANNA PLAY AS I TELL THEM TO".

Phew, I feel better now.

[OniAngel]

I just started doing gold PuGs again and I have not been seeing any. Wonder if players are not using her because of fear of getting kicked. I ran out of AR amps again stomping with the BatSol. Guess it is time to try her out on gold.

[Lexa_D]

avenging_teabag wrote...
Phew, I feel better now.

Wow, we'll have a chat today ))))

Modifié par Lexa_D, 04 mars 2013 - 10:47 .

[Kushiel42]

Barronator wrote...

Is it "overpowered" though? Yea I guess it is but if it's overpowered then that helps your TEAM, this is not a single player game yet people are SO competitive for some UNKNOWN reason.

Ultner wrote...

Yes it does but how does this effect YOU personally in your gaming experience, I can not see how this would be a problem for anybody?

avenging_teabag wrote...

All the rest of this torrent of words really can be summed up like: "WAH WAH THOSE SCRUBS DUN WANNA PLAY AS I TELL THEM TO".

Dullahans, we've never met. But if we do someday, by this point you totally owe me a beer.

Maurader Sackboy wrote...

Seems like those complaining about an "indestructible" AIU must not have actually played her yet. I got her recently and, as has been mentioned in other threads, the repair matrix seems a bit glitchy (or, I just haven't learned to use it optimally).  It's like having a few free medi-gels and stim packs.  

That's ignoring the fact that all of the bennies that RM gives you before the auto-gel kicks in also help keep you alive. That's what shield regen, damage resistance and bonus movement speed do - prevent the auto-gel function from even mattering. And given that we probably can't lose the auto-gel function without a patch, which I think we're unlikely to get ever again, I'd really love to see those other functions toned down.

As a counter to your anecdote, I played my zero Fitness EDIbot the other night, but didn't actually use any Repair Matrix charges (except in the last three seconds of the match, to make sure that I completed the weekend operation). I still handily outscored the rest of my lobby, and I'm neither a great player nor one who normally specs into zero Fitness on most classes. When I can do with with a character kit while only using three of her five abilities, it probably means she needs a hard look.

Maurader Sackboy wrote...

Anyway , I respec'd for only 1st three ranks on repair since other ranks help more (e.g., weapon damage, cloak duration).

Part of the issue with the class is that there's never any reason to spec into her Fitness unless you're building a melee character, since RM and TC will keep you alive with just her base 750 shields if you don't play her any differently than other non-TGI infiltrators.

Modifié par Kushiel42, 04 mars 2013 - 11:05 .

[ED209-XL]

Turian Ghost was my character of choice to make the jump from Silver to Gold. I am keen to see how the AIU compares to the Ghost.

[Necrotya]

@avenging_teabag: with ya on this one

[Killahead]

Mr SeVerS wrote...

Killahead wrote...

Eelectrica wrote...

My stance to edibot would be completely different if it wasn't for troll rng store.
Sometimes an iWin character is exactly what's needed. Not all of us can speed run platinum in 8 minutes afterall. Now that's balance.

You make it sound like the whole point of this game is to earn credits. We should separate whatever issues we may have with the RNG from that which is important in order for the game to be enjoyable in itself. The reason I'm in favor of nerfing the AIU is the same as my reason for wanting the Krysae nerfed back in the day: Such "iWin" items impose the end-goal of earning credits as more important than enjoying the ride, so to say. A certain challenge level and sense of accomplishment is crucial in order for the ride to be enjoyable. When and if AIUs become as frequent a sight in PUGs as the Krysae was, then this end-goal is effectively imposed on everyone, whether they want to or not. I'd prefer my team  failing rather than have the AIU resurrect herself and win the thing if we simply weren't good enough. AIUs make players lazy.

Thats one of the dumbest thing ive heard on here, I wonder if the 3 people youre playing with feel the same way? You could try lower difficulties to increase your odds of winning, or just play with a group of friends and win every match anyway.

Isn't that what they should be doing, if they aren't prepared to lose? Like HolyAvenger said in another thread, the AIU basically makes dying a meaningless event. I don't like that. Even if my games seldom fail I would never want the element of risk completely removed. Not in this or any other game. Any player can ensure success provided he or she has a basic understanding of the game, if the player in question uses the AIU. I don't want success to be guaranteed. I've run into some decent AIU players in gold pug lobbies lately, and when I realize that they know what they're doing, I become lazy and don't really care, because I know we'll extract at the end. The Infiltrator kits have always undermined the need for teamwork in this game, because there's nothing other characters can do better than them. They can handle anything (this is of course mainly attributed to their sheer damage output from TC, but also to the fact that they have been given great powers and fitness on par with other classes). With the TGI, and now the AIU, things have been taken one step further: They can now even replenish shields at will and auto-revive, respectively.

What I wanted from the AIU was a agile character with a strong melee and decoy as one of her powers (it would be an interesting and fitting power that did not contribute to OP-ness). That would have been a kit I'd want to play. I can't understand why anyone would want all the good stuff crammed into one character, but with the AIU that wish was fulfilled.

[Major Durza]

Cheezus... how is Gold inaccessible for players without the AIU? You can learn the game, I am not a stellar FPS player and I learned to play Gold with simple kits and can now do reasonably well with any character(even without using maxed UR weapons and gear)

Human Engineer, Human Soldier, Human Sentinel, Turian Soldier, Turian Sentinel are examples of common and uncommon characters that are both excellent for beginners that actually teach skill and are very useful later on.
Weapons for such would include the Phaeston, Mattock, Viper, Phalanx, Tempest, Eviscerator, Katana and such, all good light weapons that are relatively easy to obtain.

I personally used the Human Engineer (combat drone-less build) with a Phaeston, Mattock, Phalanx, Katana or Eviscerator depending on the day. Pretty sure I had my uncommons maxed before I made the move to Gold, though I am not sure.

No, new players do not need a crutch and I am quite sure BW did not intend to make a character for such a purpose. It would have been better had DM had not the autorevive chance, or have it as a separate evo for a fraction of its total time, or have it for a fraction of its total time so it carries some risk element to it. As it stands, the revive chance is likely going to have the power's duration nerfed, hopefully not into the ground because I like the movement speed and DR.

She is not *as*crutchy as people make her out to be (PUGs seem to prefer the Juggernaut) but she still is to an exent.  She is a lot more crutchy in the hands of a mildly experienced player, in which case she is a detriment to said players skill instead of a boon.  Teaches them reckless bad habits, hence the gripe.

Modifié par Major Durza, 04 mars 2013 - 02:08 .

[PreGy]

A year from now, if Bioware kept releasing DLC, we would get a kit with Enhanced Tactical Cloak (+50% damage output from all kind of weapons for 10 seconds), Rocket Grenades, and Repair Matrix post-buff (double DR and duration)... and people would be saying it's not OP, it's for getting used to Gold.

When the game was released, the only powers that recovered shields were Energy Drain and Biotic Charge. Right now, we have way more powers that do that, but we also got another one that auto-revives too. Not only that, but that character has one of the best tech powers, a krogan worthy melee, drell speed, and shotgun TC. And people refuse to say that's OP. Ok. I only wish that RM didn't auto-revive, and she would be somehow balance compare to recent infiltrators units.

I don't mind stronger kits that when the game was released, due to the fact the game got a little bit harder too (and we got a new difficulty), and it may help some newer players or other reasons. But this kit has no flaws, and a huge potential. That's not a good thing, even in coop in my opinion.

[sN00Z]

MajorStupidity wrote...

Why did we need another one of these damn threads. So many damn threads defending the AIU why?!

Cuz shes simply fun to play with and we want her to stay that way, thats pretty much it, no smoke and mirrors, no hidden agendas. 


The auto revive does have to be reworked, when I read the description in game it stated that it can happen only once, which I thought only rrevives you once for free per game which I thought didn't really matter. However now upon some reading I realize that is not the case. 

Modifié par sN00Z, 04 mars 2013 - 03:01 .

[Dream-Maker]

With a cloak that has bonus damage for the strongest weapons class in the game + one of the best offensive powers in the game (CC, AOE priming on anything, AOE debuff all in one) it's already pretty obvious that she is OP.

On top of that having free medigel, DR and additionnal speed boosts all in one power + top class melee is just the icing on the cake, but damn cheesy this icing is. It's like they didn't even want this character to have a single flaw, and god forbid it may even die.

First time I tried it in a U/U/G pug I got over 200 000 points without even trying and barely used a single medigel, this class is seriously an abomination. I can understand why people would want an easy mode class to grind credits or challenges, but if this is their only purpose in the game I seriously wonder what they'll be doing once they'll have everything unlocked and done. There is no fun in playing god mode all along...

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 04 mars 2013 - 03:24 .

[Cassandra Saturn]

everyone has their own opinions on AIU but they are diffrent, so here's really no agreements on which part of AIU should be. so.. the general sense of that is about why players want to nerf it (bad players) and players who are defending her (good/better players) are entirely diffrent and that's why it's constant battle of confilict over the wants and needs. in a paper, they are split, can't really come together to agree, so it's just disagreement over certain things that eventually lead to nerf.

[Cassandra Saturn]

and as for note to the trolls that's commenting on about me, will you please drop it and stay on topic, i don't need to hear it from you. also, my GT is none of your concern.

[cuzIMgood]

Nope.

[LoboFH]

OP, you see the kit as a wheelchair, this is not the way to get the needed experience on gold (to "walk" again), new players need to climb the ladder with the right timing and with all kind of classes, not only easy and overpowered ones.

Some say they see lot of EDI's failing on gold, so what?, a good player will breeze through gold with this kit.

Modifié par LoboFH, 04 mars 2013 - 04:26 .

[LegionofRannoch]

avenging_teabag wrote...

Quite a few responses in this thread actually made me angry. Like, really angry, ready to alt+F4 BSN away. Raging over an opinion on an online videogame, never thought I'd see the day.

This line about EDI "teaching bad habits" is such horse****, I don't even know where to begin. The TGI b*tchfest that raged here after the Retaliation used the exactly same crappy reasoning - it wasn't true then, and it's not true now. 1. Most players who use highly survivable kits to adjust to a new difficulty, will eventually move on to other kits. Let me tell you, I was an intermediate silver/gold player prior to retaliation. After Retaliation, and a sudden unexplicable difficulty spike that it brought, I dropped back to silver because I couldn't handle it - and used the TGI to ease my way back. I'm still using the TGI now and then because i love Infiltrators (it's my favorite class in SP too), but I can and do run any character, any weapon, any build on Gold, and do fine. Same with my friend who used the Kroguard. 2. Even if using the sexbot does teach those mysterious bad habits, so what? What's in it that affects you personally? NOTHING.

And ffs, don't give me the 'Scrubs that can't play ruin mah Gold PUGs, wah, wah" excuse. If you go PUGging, you agree implicitly that you can get some teammates who are not up to snuff. Or play underequipped. Or have bad connection. Or don't speak English. Or don't synergise with the team. Or like to go Rambo and die. Or play kits that are OP. Don't like it? Tough ******, leave the lobby then (I do now, when I see a Krolord in a PUG). Or play private - you have that option too.

I'm sure that the character was designed from the ground up for exactly that purpose - be a crutch via which a new/less skilled players could jump difficulties - do you think that the developers are so dumb that they didn't realize what they were creating? The only semi-legit complaint re: EDI that I've seen is that they take grenades from grenadier classes (the same was true for the TGI as well), especially on grenade-poor maps. Still, if you use a grenadier, and you enter a lobby which already has one grenade user in it, maybe it's YOU who should change your kit. As a courtesy, you know, especially if that other grenade user is hosting.

All the rest of this torrent of words really can be summed up like: "WAH WAH THOSE SCRUBS DUN WANNA PLAY AS I TELL THEM TO".

Phew, I feel better now.

i laughed at "tough ******"


still tho this is the truth.

[upinya slayin]

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

and as for note to the trolls that's commenting on about me, will you please drop it and stay on topic, i don't need to hear it from you. also, my GT is none of your concern.

You do know it doens't make someone a troll by pointing out when someone else is trolling. Your whole thread is trolling BSn, matter oif fact eevrythread you make is a troll thread. I can't wait till BW finally gives you the permaban so you can move on and troll others

[Final Marauder]

Another classic Hackett thread, with an outstanding 8 pages.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

AIU doesn't teach you ANYTHING that you need to learn to play any other character in the game on Gold. It's a TERRIBLE starting character.

A starting character is something like a Human Engineer: a class that's easy to get, requires using all the game mechanics to play well, but is still useful with minimal items and skill. You can literally just spam overload all game long while focusing on reviving and staying alive, and still be useful as an HE on Gold.

A good starting character is something that rewards you for improving but lets you learn when you fail. The AIU doesn't reward you for being a better player; it just makes you lean on TC or RM. As a beginner you'll never know how well you are progressing as a player because TC grants you such a ridiculous damage bonus that you don't need to learn weapon proficiency and RM takes away the incentive to play cautiously. Contrast that with the HE: without having good weapons or good timing for combos, you practically do NO damage; you are also squishy as hell, so if you rambo, you die. OTOH, if you spam Overload all day, you will detonate A LOT of combos, plus you will CC/debuff everything, so even if you can't do much direct damage, your team will. You might be squishy, but you are mobile, so you will actively learn how to survive. When you do go down, your team WILL come and get you, because you've been saving their sorry butts with Overloads and revives and detonating their combos and such. As you continue to improve, the HE will progressively reward you since it actually has one of the best power sets in the game, along with high mobility and versatility. The AIU has none of this. It's just raw power.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 04 mars 2013 - 05:06 .

[RoundedPlanet88]

Major Durza wrote...

Cheezus... how is Gold inaccessible for players without the AIU? You can learn the game, I am not a stellar FPS player and I learned to play Gold with simple kits and can now do reasonably well with any character(even without using maxed UR weapons and gear)

Human Engineer, Human Soldier, Human Sentinel, Turian Soldier, Turian Sentinel are examples of common and uncommon characters that are both excellent for beginners that actually teach skill and are very useful later on.
Weapons for such would include the Phaeston, Mattock, Viper, Phalanx, Tempest, Eviscerator, Katana and such, all good light weapons that are relatively easy to obtain.

I personally used the Human Engineer (combat drone-less build) with a Phaeston, Mattock, Phalanx, Katana or Eviscerator depending on the day. Pretty sure I had my uncommons maxed before I made the move to Gold, though I am not sure.

No, new players do not need a crutch and I am quite sure BW did not intend to make a character for such a purpose. It would have been better had DM had not the autorevive chance, or have it as a separate evo for a fraction of its total time, or have it for a fraction of its total time so it carries some risk element to it. As it stands, the revive chance is likely going to have the power's duration nerfed, hopefully not into the ground because I like the movement speed and DR.

She is not *as*crutchy as people make her out to be (PUGs seem to prefer the Juggernaut) but she still is to an exent.  She is a lot more crutchy in the hands of a mildly experienced player, in which case she is a detriment to said players skill instead of a boon.  Teaches them reckless bad habits, hence the gripe.

Vanilla human adept as well, and nova guard is still very good, lag susceptible, but good. And both of those kits will ALWAYS be available. Destroyer, demolisher, really any infiltrator, vorcha soldier, vorcha sentinel, both vanilla krogans, The list of kits that can be "gold starter" kits is really long, and most of them have both strengths and weaknesses. The AIU has a lot of strengths, but no arguable weakness, a LOT of the earlier infiltrators are incredibly good, BUT, they don`t get constant shield restore, Massive DR, movement buffs, AND free gel in one power, In addition to a taccloak that boosts what is arguably the best weapon class in the game even further, combined with an excellent armor debuff/primer, and a rather impressive fitness and passive as well.


And for the love of god would people stop saying she`s balanced cause of the GI, cause you turn around and immediately claim the GI is balanced cause of the AIU. Just stop.
I`ll illustrate what you sound like in an example using single letters for understanding purposes.
A and B are letters in the alphabet, Both A and B are considered to be massively superior to letters C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L( which is sometimes argued as also being powerful due to a one-trick ranged heavy melee that is currently buggy.), M,N,O,P,Q (which is argued as OP due to jigglyjiggly bumbums), R,S,T,U,V,W,X,Y,Z. Yet people on "alphabet soup forum" insist that nerfing A makes no sense because of B, and then immediately turn around and insist that nerfing B makes no sense because of A. These same people will then insist that both A and B are "starter kits" despite the fact that many many people started the game before either A or B were added to the alphabet (they started at z and worked forward (bite me)), and that many of the starter kits are now essentially so called "hipster" letters which no one ever uses except for the express purpose of handicapping themselves.

Then these people on the "alphabet soup" forum will argue "well, why do you care? If you don`t like it don`t paly it" Never realizing that in an online, "co-op" game, the life of the game is dependent on keeping a variety of letters viable. I`ll give a specific example to keep you with me.
Player xXBobbillythefifteenthXx likes Alphabet effect. he bought Alphabet effect 1 and 2, and has also rather enjoyed 3. After completing the vaunted "tomato" difficulty in alphabet soup 3, he learns that there is a multiplayer version of alphabet soup. xXbobbillythefifteenthXx starts up alphabet soup 3 multiplayer, and after three "limp noodle" difficulty games, he unlocks the letter A. Now, xXbobbillythefifteenthXx is a veteran alphabet soup player, so he knows how to starch his letters intelligently. Taking his newly starched A into a "Tomato paste" difficulty game, he discovers that the supreme starchiness of A is such that it enables him to play on silver, however, when he goes up another difficulty, (because after all, he is a veteran, and knows what he is doing,), he discovers that while he himself CANNOT play on "Hardened noodle" difficulty, the letter A enables him to keep trying over and over and over again, effectively never teaching him that rushing the tomatoes spawn is a bad idea. Now, xXbobbillythefifteenthXx has had a couple of "hardened Noodle" games under his belt using A, he gets a new shiny Q, and xXbobbillythefifteenthXx like any other true online gamer, is immediately excited over the prospect of taking his new whiny Q into a "tomato paste" difficulty game. Much to xXbobbillythefifteenthXx`s dismay, what knowledge and skills he used to be able to use that enabled hi, regardless of letter, to perform well, have completely disappeared from too much A. Depressed from not being able to make Q, or even his original starter Z work,, xXbobbillythefifteenthXx commits suicide, end of story.  (you had to see it coming)

There, I made my point in a mildly entertaining way.

Anyway,
R.I.P xXbillybobthefifteenthXx
Your sacrifice shall not be forgotten.

[Cassandra Saturn]

wow, i had no idea you wordeded it beautifully rounded

[DungeonHoek]

avenging_teabag wrote...

Quite a few responses in this thread actually made me angry. Like, really angry, ready to alt+F4 BSN away. Raging over an opinion on an online videogame, never thought I'd see the day.

This line about EDI "teaching bad habits" is such horse****, I don't even know where to begin. The TGI b*tchfest that raged here after the Retaliation used the exactly same crappy reasoning - it wasn't true then, and it's not true now. 1. Most players who use highly survivable kits to adjust to a new difficulty, will eventually move on to other kits. Let me tell you, I was an intermediate silver/gold player prior to retaliation. After Retaliation, and a sudden unexplicable difficulty spike that it brought, I dropped back to silver because I couldn't handle it - and used the TGI to ease my way back. I'm still using the TGI now and then because i love Infiltrators (it's my favorite class in SP too), but I can and do run any character, any weapon, any build on Gold, and do fine. Same with my friend who used the Kroguard. 2. Even if using the sexbot does teach those mysterious bad habits, so what? What's in it that affects you personally? NOTHING.

And ffs, don't give me the 'Scrubs that can't play ruin mah Gold PUGs, wah, wah" excuse. If you go PUGging, you agree implicitly that you can get some teammates who are not up to snuff. Or play underequipped. Or have bad connection. Or don't speak English. Or don't synergise with the team. Or like to go Rambo and die. Or play kits that are OP. Don't like it? Tough ******, leave the lobby then (I do now, when I see a Krolord in a PUG). Or play private - you have that option too.

I'm sure that the character was designed from the ground up for exactly that purpose - be a crutch via which a new/less skilled players could jump difficulties - do you think that the developers are so dumb that they didn't realize what they were creating? The only semi-legit complaint re: EDI that I've seen is that they take grenades from grenadier classes (the same was true for the TGI as well), especially on grenade-poor maps. Still, if you use a grenadier, and you enter a lobby which already has one grenade user in it, maybe it's YOU who should change your kit. As a courtesy, you know, especially if that other grenade user is hosting.

All the rest of this torrent of words really can be summed up like: "WAH WAH THOSE SCRUBS DUN WANNA PLAY AS I TELL THEM TO".

Phew, I feel better now.

I offically like you now. You have a head on your shoulders.

[ryanshowseason3]

Cassandra Saturn wrote...

before you start to call for nerf, you need to KNOW that AIU is intended to help people to play on Gold if you want to start on Gold.

AIU is not overpowered or just strong, it's intended because some people were really that slow to understand the game mechanics of the game MP.

for those that knows how the game works can actually be very good on Gold even if new people should learn how to play right without getting any of our current characters, weapons nerfed.

i even play AIU on Bronze often to help out the new players and i do play on Gold few times to build up my manifest or credits to buy the packs etc etc. 

so what i'm saying, you should play AIU for few weeks before you call for nerf, it's so overrated and lame. just chill out and play for few weeks to see why it's been feeling like  "omg it's so OP on Gold" unless you realize it's your Gold character as starter character for Gold.

honestly, where do those people start to call for nerfs? you need to know and understand your character first. surely you remember some of characters and weapons were nerfed because of whiners that did't understand what they're supposed to be doing.

i'd advise them to not call for nerf, but try to understand them as they play for few weeks.

thanks

Thats a great concept!

Except that it becomes a gold crutch and when that starter tries to play without her and doesn't get up after dying because thats the gold playstyle they developed... what then? No other character gets up on dying.



Such a short sighted commentary.