244 réponses à ce sujet

[Argentoid]

Leviathan confrontation = Catalyst confrontation

10/10


Catalyst for LI


EDIT:  I do like him

Modifié par Argentoid, 03 mars 2013 - 11:10 .

[Sunsetspawn]

Are we talking about the exposition-vomiting genie that came out of the bottle and showed us all that narrative coherence is too old skool and played out? The new way to finish stories is to let someone with down syndrome do it and allow a chimpanzee to proof read it. The whole game was about assembling the hand that could give the lamp a proper rub and tug which sprayed the "catalyst" in our face and hair. As a piece of fiction it's laughably incompetent, and it's this incompetence which doesn't allow the audience to actually absorb the "speculative" element of what the catalyst says. Had there been evidence of the catalyst's reasoning throughout the game, or perhaps even throughout the three games, well, for one we wouldn't actually need the catalyst as a character, considering he only functioned to dump exposition. More importantly than that though, the audience could accept the naturally emergent story as it unfolded, instead of having the unknown and largest element of the story dropped in our laps in the last minutes.

Unfortunately, this narrative disaster has placed Mass Effect firmly in the category of "video game," and any chance it had of being upheld as brilliant, or even functional, fiction has long been abandoned.

C'est la vie

[tanisha__unknown]

Seival on the forums here loves the endings, s/he could actually be into the catalyst or at least the concept

edit: Damn, too late.

Modifié par Jinx1720, 03 mars 2013 - 11:49 .

[Reofeir]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

I do like it, though I dislike the creative decision concerning its presentation: namely taking the young boy's form.

[Jonata]

I like the endings, but the Catalyst is a mean more than a character by itself. However, I personally kinda liked the way the character serves his purpose. I think that his presence as an almost-godly AI, more ancient than we could imagine, completely scrambles every preconception one might have learned about the Reapers at that point in the game, a proper prelude to the final (in)famous revelation and one that (it's supposed to) bring the player back to that state of disbelief/fear of the unknown that was prominent in the first game of the saga.

So, yeah, you could say that "I liked the Catalyst", even if it's not that simple. It all boils down to the fact that I liked the endings and the powerful message behind Sythesis in particular, though I understand it's not a popular position, at least on these boards. 

Modifié par Jonata, 03 mars 2013 - 11:55 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Starbrat goes through explanations of choices.

Shepard: I... don't know.
Starbrat: Why not? Even you are partly synthetic.

Shepard (stands up, grimaces, looks around, picks up Starbrat, and begins walking toward the control rods)

Starbrat: Put me down. What are you doing? Put me down! (then in deep voice) Put me down.

Shepard: I've got a better idea. Control yourself. (shoves Starbrat between control rods setting off infinite feedback loop which starts exploding reapers)

Shepard (lights cigar, opens com channel): Joker get me out of here.
Joker: right away commander. (5 second Bioware pickup time)

All reapers in the galaxy explode. Citadel explodes.

Credits. New Theme

lol

Answer: No. I hate the glowkid.

[devSin]

This thing is the stupidest development in the entire franchise.

Even if the concept had merit (which I think can be debated), the execution renders it completely invalid.

It's just garbage. Pure garbage. The only thing it succeeds at is story suicide.

Modifié par devSin, 04 mars 2013 - 12:28 .

[Merchant2006]

devSin wrote...

This thing is the stupidest development in the entire franchise.

Even if the concept had merit (which I think can be debated), the execution renders it completely invalid.

It's just garbage. Pure garbage. It's not even a character; it's a narrative ass-pull by somebody with no talent and even less skill.

*Wipes tear* thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth.

It's a cop out. A stupid plot twist that backfired and ended up a complete joke. Choices my arse, the catalyst is a pathetic 'thing' in the ME series.

[DoodlyDangus]

Apart from all the trolls infesting this site, I can't think of any. No SERIOUS individual likes the Catalyst.

[Alamar2078]

There's got to be someone that actively likes the catalyst .... there's always a few out there

[Ghaleon]

Can't  stand  him, worse then  the cereal ninja.

Modifié par Ghaleon80, 04 mars 2013 - 12:21 .

[Argentoid]

DoodlyDangus wrote...

Apart from all the trolls infesting this site, I can't think of any. No SERIOUS individual likes the Catalyst.

Not necessarily. I DO like it. That doesn't mean I LOOOOOVE the endings, I just like, lets say, the concept. Call me idiot or whatever... but to each their own.

BTW, I always suspected (since ME1) that there had to be someone that was giving the Reapers a motive. So I was expecting that kind of plot twist for the ending.

Modifié par Argentoid, 04 mars 2013 - 12:27 .

[Garrus is my Shepard]

I don't mind it as much after Leviathan. My problem was that it just came out of nowhere. At least with Leviathan, it's hinted at.

[noobcannon]

liggy002 wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

I cant fathom anyone actually liking that character. Well, maybe Brovick.

I guess Walters and Hudson and some or most of the people at Bioware liked it... they keep defending the ending and refuse to remove it.  I just have yet to see anyone who actually loved the character.

i'm gonna say sieval. just a hunch though.

[Starscream723]

Decent idea, but yes, lacking in foreshadowing.

Also it didn't help that it took the form of the random child we'd previously been beaten over the head with, while the game shouted "BE SAD NOW! WON'T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" over and over again.

It was corny but just about acceptable on Earth, when he got blown up and Shepard dramatically looked away while the sad music played. I don't think I've encountered anybody who actually liked those damned dream sequences though, and having the catalyst take on that same form didn't do it any favours. As we began to resent slowly chasing some random kid we didn't even like through a dreamland forest, OF COURSE we weren't going to respond well to a glowy version showing up suddenly at the finale and telling us what to do.

[Strangewrex]

I don't hate the catalyst because without him there wouldn't be any explanation for the Final Choice in the game. Think about it. What if in the Original Pokemon Games, Selecting the first pokeball you click on got you whatever pokemon happned to be in that pokeball without any prior explanation as to which one it was? you'd be pretty pissed because you wanted a Bulbasaur but instead got a stupid Squirtle.

[Jonata]

Not to be rude, but most people here repeat ideas that are floating in these boards (and sometimes outside of 'em) since the very release of the game a year ago. I wonder how many of those opinions are honest troubles and how many are just "if I'll say this on the BSN, I'll be one of the cool guys".

[Indy_S]

Jonata wrote...

Not to be rude, but most people here repeat ideas that are floating in these boards (and sometimes outside of 'em) since the very release of the game a year ago. I wonder how many of those opinions are honest troubles and how many are just "if I'll say this on the BSN, I'll be one of the cool guys".

Some are more important issues than others. This is an important issue in the narrative of ME3.

[Benchpress610]

The Catalyst cheapens the story and the terrifying threat the reapers represented. It is superfluous to the story and breaks its narrative. The reapers were the perfect enemy and didn’t need to be explained away. They were awesome killing machines from a remote past bent on absolute destruction. Their unknowable unflinching resolve on total extermination made them the stuff of nightmares. … The shiny blob (as I like to call it) just waters down and dissolves that awesomeness and the cataclysmic anticipation for the final resolution of the plot…

I think, it is just a cop out. A device the developers used the end the game in the time frame they were given. I picture the developing team in a meeting asking for more time to finish the trilogy in a proper fashion while the representative from upper management in EA argued: “corporate demands the game must release on time, you guys must come up with a way to end this thing right away”…thus, the star-brat.

[3DandBeyond]

Eterna5 wrote...

The Catalyst is a Shackled Ai who never went beyond his programming. He was stupidly given a broad mandate by his creators. That's actually the point. The Leviathan were stupid and arrogant and made a horrible mistake. The power they had made them feel invincible, they didn' even entertain the notion that an AI could overthrow them. 

Yes and so logically in the end, Shepard not only must agree with a ridiculously flawed AI, but also the morons that created it.

I am sure that this all makes sense to you and I understand what it means-that's the problem.  Shepard is told by the morons that the AI is still following his programming.  Great, that's what started this mess-that's what got many of them killed, when their intent was to find a way not to die.  It makes no sense at all that the Leviathans who were having issues with synthetics would create one with no controls placed upon it to keep it from killing themselves.  That is the main focus of shackling-so that a synthetic cannot rebel against it's creators.  Shackling is not even mainly to make sure that an AI follows a main purpose, but is to ensure it cannot become "independent".  EDI had them and could not divulge sensitive information-things that could be breaches of security and used against TIM.  Shepard was not given any form of control so that s/he could be "independent" and adapt to new situations.

The idea that the kid was shackled but given a broad mandate is just silly.  The broad mandate would be in being able to gather information and come up with possibilities but any organic that has the basic worry about synthetics killing them would not allow for a solution that involves it.  I don't care how stupid they are-a race that could create such an all-powerful AI would never ignore that.  If so, then it makes it all the more ridiculous for Shepard to have no real disagreement with the AI (and thus the Leviathans) over the doomsday scenario he prophesizes.  Shepard has a brain and would have to believe Leviathan (morons), the kid (created by morons), as well as the thing this synthetic sage is predicting will one day happen.  And guess what-it never even ever happened ever before. 

In fact, the very thing they created the kid to keep from happening, he began to try and make happen, but even though that was his intent, it never did.  He did not kill all of his creators.  And at no point in time has any synthetic indicated that they would intentionally decide to exterminate all organic life, nor accidentally do so.  In Shepard's time the only story that applies doesn't even come close to that.  The geth may well have intentionally or accidentally begun to destroy one whole species of organics, but the stopped and decided not to.  Nor has this kind of scenario created by Leviathan and explained by the kid, ever reached such proportions as they have theorized.  And that's what it comes down to-the reapers have been killing and Shepard must make a choice, based upon a THEORY and Leviathan's crystal ball that foretells things to come.  And Spineless Shepard thinks that's just brilliant.