244 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Anyone who likes the Catalyst has no concept of quality.

Go enjoy you fanfiction mod.

Better than what  we got, and MEHEM isn't even all that good. But at least it removes one of the most awful characters ever written completely.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 03 mars 2013 - 05:49 .

[Clayless]

liggy002 wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

You speak about the Catalyst in the title but then you talk about disliking what the Catalyst brings to the story in the thread, so could you be more specific?

Do you like the character itself and think it is a neat concept?  Further, do you fully agree with its logic?

Well as the overmind of the Reapers, yes, it gives them direction. I do agree with his logic to an extent seeing as though the only evidence we have points towards it being correct, and it does have billions of years of experience, I just don't agree with the way it went about rectifying the problem, or heck even trying to fix the problem in the first place.

[tevix]

I remember way back when ME2 was relatively new. One of the most popular ideas I saw about how the trilogy would end in regards to the final battle with the reapers was often something not unlike the folliowing:

The reapers are just....too OUT there to be defeatable just by shooting at them, no matter how many ships you have. Since they are machines, they obviously serve(ed) some kind of purpose. Odds are when we engage them for the last time with the entire galaxy, shepard & co will engage a different entity altogether that is coordinating the reapers for whatever purpose it thinks it's serving.

I never liked the idea that the reapers were just simple robots that went nuts and we shoot them to win. I love the idea of a central being/intelligence/whatever that serves as the ultimate opponent hiding in the background the whole time. I think BW attempted this approach, and I approve of that.

I do not approve of the final execution. The whole thing is unnecessarily vague. The reapers were NEVER indirect about who they are or what they want. Why would their master then disguise himself (quite confusingly) as a little boy who was blowin up at the beginning of the game. This adds a heavy layer of doubt over his words, and the situation as a whole. Intentional or not, I'm not fond of this move.

I have heard rumors that there is information in the "leaked" unfinished scrip that the encounter went through various iterations before it was finalized that were more concise and direct. Not sure if that's allowed to be discussed in detail here so if you're curious you'll have to check that out yourself.

[Abreu Road]

Catalyst is a good and understandable idea, but it's handled in the worst possible way. It would need a great writer to plan and write the character, story arc and everything else. And this is something that clearly didn't happen.

Leviathan being a part of the game and not a DLC would have helped that, I think.

[3DandBeyond]

Icinix wrote...

Didn't like the kids iteration at any point in the game.

As the catalyst made me hate him retro-actively even more.

This exactly.  First game ever to make me actually say I wanted to shoot a kid.  Really, is this what BW intended-how psychotic of them.

[GraphicOps]

In order for the catalyst to be good, it would have to be introduced at the latest at the beginning of Mass Effect 3 in some way.

[Jamie9]

I lament the lost potential of the Priority: Earth mission much more than the introduction of the Catalyst.

The final mission should really have been Suicide Mission 2.0, but with entire races being placed.

[MerchantGOL]

SyK18 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SyK18 wrote...

I hate the Catalyst as much as I hate Vega and Allers...A LOT!!

Allers is one thing... But Vega? What is to hate?

from what ive' gatherd he's hated cause he has muscels and isn't "man Pretty"

"man Pretty"?!

For me he just does not seem to fit in a role with the squad of ME. We already have a Grunt. Also every single dialogue is just annoying. Bioware could have introduced a much more creative character to take his spot with a better backstory. I would have loved to have the British guy (Coates?). Vega just feels like a generic soldier needed on the frontlines, not in a special Shepard Earth saving squad. He could have done better being Anderson's brute on Earth imo.

Thats the point, Vega thinks his only worht is as  cannon fodder, Shepard see some thing diffrent and in turn makes him see diffrent. Also i think Vega Works better as anEvery man then jacob or kaiden did

[tevix]

@GraphicOps

I think the kid in the beginning was BW's way of introducing him to you, even though didn't know it. When you talk to him in the vent you hear a distinct, very eery reaper growl when anderons grabs your attention, Codex entries and in game mail suggest this is a sign of an attempted indoctrination attempt. It's possible you were in contact with the Catalyst from the very beginning, but were not aware.

He's in your brain man...

[His Name was HYR!!]

I have a love-hate relationship with him.


Where I "love" him typically involves trollan stupid Sheps (and, by extension, the stupid game-player).

[Tron Mega]

MerchantGOL wrote...
Thats the point, Vega thinks his only worht is as  cannon fodder, Shepard see some thing diffrent and in turn makes him see diffrent. Also i think Vega Works better as anEvery man then jacob or kaiden did

was that thing shepard saw in vega posted on twitter er something.

cuz i never saw it.

[GraphicOps]

@Tevix

If that is the angle they were playing than I would've liked to see more of it, but they aren't going to commit to that. I'm very familiar with all the little cues, there was just no payoff for any of it other than him being star child at the end, which according to "Refuse" is Harbinger.

[Dubozz]

Catalyst ruined the game for me.

[Clayless]

tevix wrote...

I have heard rumors that there is information in the "leaked" unfinished scrip that the encounter went through various iterations before it was finalized that were more concise and direct. Not sure if that's allowed to be discussed in detail here so if you're curious you'll have to check that out yourself.

No the leaked script is the same. The only difference being the Catalyst is called the Guardian.

[Reap_ii]

GraphicOps wrote...

@Tevix

If that is the angle they were playing than I would've liked to see more of it, but they aren't going to commit to that. I'm very familiar with all the little cues, there was just no payoff for any of it other than him being star child at the end, which according to "Refuse" is Harbinger.

the "So be it!" thing really confused me and made me dislike the catalyst even more.   im just not good at headcanon and need some at least some help from the writers.  im actually still confused about what that meant and what the implications of it were to the other choices. 

[tevix]

@Robosexual

You sure? I read it and seem to remember something along the lines of "The reaper god unfurls..."

@GraphicOps

I agree with you 100%. Was just throwing the idea out there, not trying to justify it.

Shining a light on a cockroach doesn't mean I'm going to call it fluffy and cuddle with it at night. =P

[GraphicOps]

The "So be it!" is in the words of Emperor Palpatine, "So be it. Jedi. If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed. ... Young fool, only now, at the end, do you understand. ... Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side. ... You have paid the price for your lack of vision."

Ohhhh, the Catalyst actually makes so much more sense now... Blast.

Modifié par GraphicOps, 03 mars 2013 - 06:39 .

[SyK18]

MerchantGOL wrote...

SyK18 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SyK18 wrote...

I hate the Catalyst as much as I hate Vega and Allers...A LOT!!

Allers is one thing... But Vega? What is to hate?

from what ive' gatherd he's hated cause he has muscels and isn't "man Pretty"

"man Pretty"?!

For me he just does not seem to fit in a role with the squad of ME. We already have a Grunt. Also every single dialogue is just annoying. Bioware could have introduced a much more creative character to take his spot with a better backstory. I would have loved to have the British guy (Coates?). Vega just feels like a generic soldier needed on the frontlines, not in a special Shepard Earth saving squad. He could have done better being Anderson's brute on Earth imo.

Thats the point, Vega thinks his only worht is as  cannon fodder, Shepard see some thing diffrent and in turn makes him see diffrent. Also i think Vega Works better as anEvery man then jacob or kaiden did

I killed Kaiden in ME and Jacob in ME2. I should be abla to kill Vega in ME3. It only makes sense.

[tevix]

@Reap_ii

I don't think the child is harbinger, the leviathans clearly distinguished the "intelligence" and "harbinger" as two different beings. I think the "so be it" simply shows it is not a harmless child but in fact the reaper "mastermind".

Why he sounds like he is saying basically "Fine f--- you then" is because he is. You didn't bow down to him and accept his new solutions so he wants nothing further from you. He's waited possibly a billion or more years for you and won't be bothered by waiting another. Why he wants you to choose from three arguably flawed solutions yet allows the destruction of those options if you are too slow is a discussion for another thread.

[Norbulus]

The concept of somebody behind the reapers was required; it was predictable, at least for me. Yet many key factors-- such as bad lines, poor explanation and gibberish appearance and voice-- led him into point of being hated. If bioware could pull this off, it probably would be as figurative as vigil or sovereign in first game. Still it frustratingly failed.

[Reap_ii]

SyK18 wrote...

I killed Kaiden in ME and Jacob in ME2. I should be abla to kill Vega in ME3. It only makes sense.

you can kill Vega i think.  low ems, priority earth,  take him as a squadmate, mako drops on him or something. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Catalyst... while his methods were rather barbaric, he was right about synthetics. Evil things. He should know. He was a synthetic himself. I don't think it should have manifested as a child, prothean or anything we'd seen. Maybe just as a ball of light.

I just wanted a reunion.

[Icinix]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The Catalyst... while his methods were rather barbaric, he was right about synthetics. Evil things. He should know. He was a synthetic himself. I don't think it should have manifested as a child, prothean or anything we'd seen. Maybe just as a ball of light.

I just wanted a reunion.

Yeah - the whole kid thing - it just wasn't done right.

You can't force a feel down the throat of a gamer. It just doesn't work.

They'll naturally rebel against it - and chances are after two games with a great deal of character control - you'll really ****** them off.

[Reap_ii]

tevix wrote...

@Reap_ii

I don't think the child is harbinger, the leviathans clearly distinguished the "intelligence" and "harbinger" as two different beings. I think the "so be it" simply shows it is not a harmless child but in fact the reaper "mastermind".

Why he sounds like he is saying basically "Fine f--- you then" is because he is. You didn't bow down to him and accept his new solutions so he wants nothing further from you. He's waited possibly a billion or more years for you and won't be bothered by waiting another. Why he wants you to choose from three arguably flawed solutions yet allows the destruction of those options if you are too slow is a discussion for another thread.

just your headcanon though.  if im doing headcanon, then his voice change makes me feel like he isnt telling me everything.  or, he isnt who he says he is.  i dunno, its just so open ended.  i dont like that much open endedness. 

Modifié par Reap_ii, 03 mars 2013 - 07:14 .

[GraphicOps]

In my headcanon Shepard wakes up and realizes it's all a dream and stabs harbinger in the knee with omni blade... Sorry, it's late.

The reason the catalyst is portrayed as a kid is because Shepard is tortured by the fact that this kid was killed. Now I don't know how the Catalyst knows this because that would mean something got in Shepard's head and got this info out of him, because other than dreams there is no mention of it what so ever. The only logical conclusion is a word that begins with an "I"