244 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

nrobbiec wrote...

I don't hate it. It's a liar and I don't hesitate to destroy it, so I suppose I hate it in character but it's a perfectly valid part of the story.

How is it a lair if it's just doing what it's programers told it to do?

[Jadebaby]

I like him, I think the way he was introduced into the narrative was superb, and despite many not thinking this way. I felt it was a great twist to the plot and left me wondering if I could actually save the galaxy. I had to really think about the last choice and it was extra cheeky of BioWare to include that timer because it got me a couple of times before I could make my final decision.

[GethPrimeMKII]

dreman9999 wrote...

nrobbiec wrote...

I don't hate it. It's a liar and I don't hesitate to destroy it, so I suppose I hate it in character but it's a perfectly valid part of the story.

How is it a lair if it's just doing what it's programers told it to do?

You could describe a VI in such a way but not an AI with no indication of being shackled. Much like EDI demonstrates early in the game, it is very much capable of lying. 

[Smeffects]

dreman9999 wrote...

nrobbiec wrote...

I don't hate it. It's a liar and I don't hesitate to destroy it, so I suppose I hate it in character but it's a perfectly valid part of the story.

How is it a lair if it's just doing what it's programers told it to do?

Add to that if he is a liar, why do you listen to him about how to destroy the reapers? If you dont believe the Catalyst your only option is refuse. If you picked destroy you believed him and picked one of the choice "he" gave you. You believed his words alone, for all you knew shooting the red tube disable the crucible and saved the reapers, how would you know? Huh? Because you saw the ending afterward, same for control and synthe****. He didnt lie about any of them sadly.

Modifié par Smeffects, 03 mars 2013 - 02:07 .

[dreman9999]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

nrobbiec wrote...

I don't hate it. It's a liar and I don't hesitate to destroy it, so I suppose I hate it in character but it's a perfectly valid part of the story.

How is it a lair if it's just doing what it's programers told it to do?

You could describe a VI in such a way but not an AI with no indication of being shackled. Much like EDI demonstrates early in the game, it is very much capable of lying. 

But he is shackled. He and it's programers make it clear. Everything it's doing is because it was programed to.

[Applepie_Svk]

dreman9999 wrote...
But he is shackled. He and it's programers make it clear. Everything it's doing is because it was programed to.

I am sure that Leviathans haven´t programmed the Catalyst to make an army of Reapers which will be instead of solving the problem keep it resenting it, ofc unless they both are liars.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 03 mars 2013 - 02:10 .

[sravenblood]

dreman9999 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

nrobbiec wrote...

I don't hate it. It's a liar and I don't hesitate to destroy it, so I suppose I hate it in character but it's a perfectly valid part of the story.

How is it a lair if it's just doing what it's programers told it to do?

You could describe a VI in such a way but not an AI with no indication of being shackled. Much like EDI demonstrates early in the game, it is very much capable of lying. 

But he is shackled. He and it's programers make it clear. Everything it's doing is because it was programed to.

I am in total agreement with dreman. I thought it was evident in Leviation but maybe I misunderstood that it was a shackled AI?

[Indy_S]

I thought one of the distinctions between AI and VI was that AI could evolve beyond their programming. He's only limited because he wants to be; nobody has stepped up and pointed out the flaws, yet. Once that happens, though, he's free to change if he wants. That doesn't happen...

[dreman9999]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But he is shackled. He and it's programers make it clear. Everything it's doing is because it was programed to.

I am sure that Leviathans haven´t programmed the Catalyst to make an army of Reapers which will be instead of solving the problem keep it resenting it, ofc unless they both are liars.

The programed it to make helpers. It not lieing if it is just doing what it's programed to do. The leviathens are not lieing ether.

Added the catalyst solution is to control everything.

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

I thought one of the distinctions between AI and VI was that AI could evolve beyond their programming. He's only limited because he wants to be; nobody has stepped up and pointed out the flaws, yet. Once that happens, though, he's free to change if he wants. That doesn't happen...

That's not true at all. The difference between AI's and VI is that AI's are selfaware...VI's are not.

An AI can't go past it's programing  if its shackled as much as much as a VI can't ether.

EDI in ME2 before being unshackled is an example.

 An AI being shackled is no different then a person being indoctrianted.

[GethPrimeMKII]

It betrayed its creators and used their genetic material to create the first Reaper. Yeah he's shackled alright..... /sarcasm.

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...

That's not true at all. The difference between AI's and VI is that AI's are selfaware...VI's are not.

An AI can't go past it's programing  if its shackled as much as much as a VI can't ether.

EDI in ME2 before being unshackled is an example.

 An AI being shackled is no different then a person being indoctrianted.

Well I learnt something from this thread.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Seival likes him.
Personally I hate him for all the reasons I shouldn't, he's not a great villain he's just a contrived character/plot device.

[sravenblood]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

It betrayed its creators and used their genetic material to create the first Reaper. Yeah he's shackled alright..... /sarcasm.

The Intelligence was shackled to solve the problem of organics versus synthetics, no restraints on HOW to accomplish that, unfortunatly it's solution was bloody horrific. No one is saying that it was somehow forced to be peaceful.

[dreman9999]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

It betrayed its creators and used their genetic material to create the first Reaper. Yeah he's shackled alright..... /sarcasm.

Leviathan:  To counter this problem we creater an intelligence with the mandate to perserve life at any cost.


Key note"any cost". If they AI beleive taking down it's creators would sole theproblem given to it. It would do so because it's programing allows it to.
Shackling an AI is not a100% insurace it will not attack you, that is based on how it's coded  and how it sees how to solve the problem.

[Ledgend1221]

As soon as I saw that stupid child, I instantly hated him.

[IanPolaris]

dreman9999 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

It betrayed its creators and used their genetic material to create the first Reaper. Yeah he's shackled alright..... /sarcasm.

Leviathan:  To counter this problem we creater an intelligence with the mandate to perserve life at any cost.


Key note"any cost". If they AI beleive taking down it's creators would sole theproblem given to it. It would do so because it's programing allows it to.
Shackling an AI is not a100% insurace it will not attack you, that is based on how it's coded  and how it sees how to solve the problem.

Which meant the Leviathans were idiots.

-Polaris

[dreman9999]

Indy_S wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That's not true at all. The difference between AI's and VI is that AI's are selfaware...VI's are not.

An AI can't go past it's programing  if its shackled as much as much as a VI can't ether.

EDI in ME2 before being unshackled is an example.

 An AI being shackled is no different then a person being indoctrianted.

Well I learnt something from this thread.

Hey there was many converstions in ME3 that stated the reapers are indoctrinated... We truely know this  on thessia.

[dreman9999]

IanPolaris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

It betrayed its creators and used their genetic material to create the first Reaper. Yeah he's shackled alright..... /sarcasm.

Leviathan:  To counter this problem we creater an intelligence with the mandate to perserve life at any cost.


Key note"any cost". If they AI beleive taking down it's creators would sole theproblem given to it. It would do so because it's programing allows it to.
Shackling an AI is not a100% insurace it will not attack you, that is based on how it's coded  and how it sees how to solve the problem.

Which meant the Leviathans were idiots.

-Polaris

dreman9999 wrote...

As a person that tries to correct peoples view on it.... Even I say I hate the thing....I hates it's programmers even more.

We are on the same page...
The ironic this is...The people in the MEU are doing the same mistakes as the leviathens...

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...
]


Leviathan:  To counter this problem we creater an intelligence with the mandate to perserve life at any cost.


Key note"any cost". If they AI beleive taking down it's creators would sole theproblem given to it. It would do so because it's programing allows it to.
Shackling an AI is not a100% insurace it will not attack you, that is based on how it's coded  and how it sees how to solve the problem.

The point of a shackled AI is so that it doesn't do anything without it's creators approval, EDI couldn't even save the ship without Joker letting her, despite protecting the ship being one of her funtions.
Catalyst harvest his creators without their approval he ain't shackled.

[IanPolaris]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
]


Leviathan:  To counter this problem we creater an intelligence with the mandate to perserve life at any cost.


Key note"any cost". If they AI beleive taking down it's creators would sole theproblem given to it. It would do so because it's programing allows it to.
Shackling an AI is not a100% insurace it will not attack you, that is based on how it's coded  and how it sees how to solve the problem.

The point of a shackled AI is so that it doesn't do anything without it's creators approval, EDI couldn't even save the ship without Joker letting her, despite protecting the ship being one of her funtions.
Catalyst harvest his creators without their approval he ain't shackled.

I have to agree with Dreman on this one.  All it proves is the Illusive Man wasn't a complete idiot when it came to programming AI shackles and the Leviathans were.

-Polaris

[AresKeith]

For the record, being programmed =/= shackled

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
]


Leviathan:  To counter this problem we creater an intelligence with the mandate to perserve life at any cost.


Key note"any cost". If they AI beleive taking down it's creators would sole theproblem given to it. It would do so because it's programing allows it to.
Shackling an AI is not a100% insurace it will not attack you, that is based on how it's coded  and how it sees how to solve the problem.

The point of a shackled AI is so that it doesn't do anything without it's creators approval, EDI couldn't even save the ship without Joker letting her, despite protecting the ship being one of her funtions.
Catalyst harvest his creators without their approval he ain't shackled.

They was no block to do that as stated by it's creators. Shackling an AI is about controling said AI but how well it can be controled is based on it's coding. It is not a 100% garruntee. We see that it is not many times in the ME series.
(Geth rebelions)
(ME1 moon mission)
(Citadel rogue ai)
(The mech uprising in ME2.)
(Overlord)

[Indy_S]

dreman9999 wrote...

Hey there was many converstions in ME3 that stated the reapers are indoctrinated... We truely know this  on thessia.

Surely not. There is no evidence that says that the Reapers are indoctrinated. I'm really curious to see if that can be proven wrong.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

For the record, being programmed =/= shackled

Yes it is shackled....Just by bad programing.