426 réponses à ce sujet

[Kyerea]

bobobo878 wrote...

The video also claimed that 59.8% of fans still believe that indoctrination theory is true, I guess 59.8% of fans are deluded fruitcakes.

[Dragoonlordz]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Those polls are flawed, anyone who says otherwise does not know how unbiased statistics work.

The reality is noone here knows what the majority feel. The only thing you know is that some people voted in those polls, a small biased portion of the fanbase -and you know what you think and feel about the game. If you have to rely on fictional quantitative statements like "we all" or "everyone" even majority or minority then to me all your doing is talking trash and puffing out your chest trying to make your opinion of more value than in reality it is.

Especially when even using such polls the reasoning behind each persons vote could be different just like how some people hated the ending because no Harbinger battle, some hated due to other reasons like no blue babies, some because of catalyst and some just hated whole game including ending. Same reason why Retake crumbled, so many people with different issues on why they did not like the ending that when came to it, noone was in agreement over what they wanted.

It also does not take into account change of opinion since voting (many of the polls he reference are pre-EC). So stick to saying what you want, what you feel and leave it at that. If expression of your opinion is of decent quality, your points if have validity then you shouldn't need to make up fictional quantitative numbers and statements to back up your stance as your stance should be able to stand on it's own two feet metaphorically speaking.

Fact is there is so many flaws in that video that the comments section for it has people attacking each other over it's validity. A lot of the polls in his "evidence" are actually very out of date pre-EC and it very much IS a biased statistics. Overall the video is flawed polling, based on flawed out of date evidence and comes to a flawed conclusion and now your using that flawed video to make a flawed thread title and assumption.

The fact you said Retake crumbled, invalidated your entire post. They facilitated the largest backlash in gaming history, to the extent Amazon was giving full refunds to accommodate angry customers. The Extended Cut, flawed as it may be, is due largely in part to Retake pushing BioWare in a way no organized group has ever lobbied against a developer before.

You repeatedly cite the polls and surveys as flawed, yet cannot provide a single source of positive evidence - not one. Whether you believe CleverNoob or not is irrelevant to the fact numerous polls from different countries, created at different times, all indicate a negative response toward the ending. The reasoning behind people's votes are equally as equivalent because it leads to the same result - every poll across the Internet is negative.

Not even Final Fantasy XIII, the most criticised title in the series, garnered such a massive one-sided response amongst the online community. You can champion the minority/majority argument for years to come, but until there is some evidence of a positive variety,then we can only infer what we know. BioWare supposedly has these very statistics. They have posted them in the past. What is preventing them now?

It invalidated nothing. It did crumble and for the reasons I stated.

Secondly if you think that was biggest backlash in gaming history you must be living in a bubble (biggest equals largest amount of people not loudest small group of people). D3's backlash was of equal scale, hell even Fallout 3 or Duke Nukem was comparable. There are others too like WarZ and even DA2. If you think couple people filing FTC and BBB complaints makes it biggest backlash then your not very bright as people did those same things for all the games I just mentioned, they all also had review bombing, they all had threats and all had many articles written on them.

Most of those who hated them, still hate them just like the few stragglers who hang around here spewing forth bile about the ending. If you think some people sending some cupcakes makes it biggest then your mistaken even when take into account money raised for kids (ironically that many tried to claim their money back after found out was not buying a new ending) it was still not the biggest blacklash. The biggest backlash is the most people offended/hated it voicing that displeasure of which ME3 was not the most.

Thirdly you do not seem to grasp the concept of unbiased polling and the impact of the validity on those which are biased. An unbiased poll requires random selection, none of them in his video qualify. They are also out of date and uses them as evidence against post-EC state of game players when most of his polls are pre-EC. If you fail to see the flaws in that then take off your blindfold.

Lastly it is up to Bioware to release whatever information they choose, their choice not to do so does not mean either they have no evidence or that it is not favorable. It just means they have not chosen to give you that information. In game data like those two pictures you posted earlier neither show how many people bought the game or how many people liked it so even if they did release that same information shown in those pictures for ME3 you would be no better off with your stance.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 mars 2013 - 11:45 .

[Hexley UK]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Those polls are flawed, anyone who says otherwise does not know how unbiased statistics work.

The reality is noone here knows what the majority feel. The only thing you know is that some people voted in those polls, a small biased portion of the fanbase -and you know what you think and feel about the game. If you have to rely on fictional quantitative statements like "we all" or "everyone" even majority or minority then to me all your doing is talking trash and puffing out your chest trying to make your opinion of more value than in reality it is.

Especially when even using such polls the reasoning behind each persons vote could be different just like how some people hated the ending because no Harbinger battle, some hated due to other reasons like no blue babies, some because of catalyst and some just hated whole game including ending. Same reason why Retake crumbled, so many people with different issues on why they did not like the ending that when came to it, noone was in agreement over what they wanted.

It also does not take into account change of opinion since voting (many of the polls he reference are pre-EC). So stick to saying what you want, what you feel and leave it at that. If expression of your opinion is of decent quality, your points if have validity then you shouldn't need to make up fictional quantitative numbers and statements to back up your stance as your stance should be able to stand on it's own two feet metaphorically speaking.

Fact is there is so many flaws in that video that the comments section for it has people attacking each other over it's validity. A lot of the polls in his "evidence" are actually very out of date pre-EC and it very much IS a biased statistics. Overall the video is flawed polling, based on flawed out of date evidence and comes to a flawed conclusion and now your using that flawed video to make a flawed thread title and assumption.

The fact you said Retake crumbled, invalidated your entire post. They facilitated the largest backlash in gaming history, to the extent Amazon was giving full refunds to accommodate angry customers. The Extended Cut, flawed as it may be, is due largely in part to Retake pushing BioWare in a way no organized group has ever lobbied against a developer before.

You repeatedly cite the polls and surveys as flawed, yet cannot provide a single source of positive evidence - not one. Whether you believe CleverNoob or not is irrelevant to the fact numerous polls from different countries, created at different times, all indicate a negative response toward the ending. The reasoning behind people's votes are equally as equivalent because it leads to the same result - every poll across the Internet is negative.

Not even Final Fantasy XIII, the most criticised title in the series, garnered such a massive one-sided response amongst the online community. You can champion the minority/majority argument for years to come, but until there is some evidence of a positive variety,then we can only infer what we know. BioWare supposedly has these very statistics. They have posted them in the past. What is preventing them now?

It invalidated nothing. It did crumble and for the reasons I stated.

Secondly if you think that was biggest backlash in gaming history you must be living in a bubble (biggest equals largest amount of people not loudest small group of people). D3's backlash was of equal scale, hell even Fallout 3 or Duke Nukem was comparable. There are others too like WarZ and even DA2. If you think couple people filing FTC and BBB complaints makes it biggest backlash then your not very bright people did those same things for all the games I just mentioned, if you think some people sending some cupcakes makes it biggest then your mistaken even when take into account money raised for kids (ironically that many tried to claim their money back after found out was not buying a new ending) it was still not the biggest blacklash. The biggest backlash is the most people offended/hated it voicing that displeasure of which ME3 was not the most.

Thirdly you do not seem to grasp the concept of unbiased polling and the impact of the validity on those which are biased. An unbiased poll requires random selection, none of them in his video qualify. They are also out of date and uses them as evidence against post-EC state of game players when most of his polls are pre-EC. If you fail to see the flaws in that then take off your blindfold.

Lastly it is up to Bioware to release whatever information they choose, their choice not to do so does not mean either they have no evidence or that it is not favorable. It just means they have not chosen to give you that information. In game data like those two pictures you posted earlier neither show how many people bought the game or how many people liked it so even if they did release that same information shown in those pictures for ME3 you would be no better off with your stance.

Total hogwash, you really do enjoy the smell of your own don't you?

While I agree that the polls are certainly not definitive proof they are an indication that most hated the endings...I have seen NOTHING to support your stance, I repeat NOTHING.

Show me 1 credible piece of evidence with decent numbers (10,000+)  that supports your view...just 1...come on...i'll wait....

Put up or shut up.

[kaileena_sands]

 If people are so butthurt that someone says that a lot of people (not a minority) just don't like the ending, maybe they should just conduct their independent and unbiased survey on the matter. While on many points I don't agree with Noob's video, I do believe that if the following question is asked to people that finished the game from beginning to end from different countries and different ME background (e.g. from the most fanatic uhm... fans, to those that just picked ME3 because the ads managed to grab their attentions during the right cycle of their short attention span):

"I believe that the ME3's current ending is a good, logical and well-written conclusion to the space saga, regardless of my personal feelings towards it."

• Strongly agree
• Agree
• Neutral
• Disagree
• Strongly disagree

This kind of phrasing, for example, is much more interesting for me, because I personally don't care a lot about others' personal feelings about the end. What I am interested is if there/how could there be people that actually think the ending is well-developed (and what are they on, because I want it).

Maybe I should just make my own poll (but I am lazy, and honestly, I don't give a rat's as* anymore). I've got HotS and Bioshock: Infinite to play soon, so I am not sure why I am opening old wounds. I also have the MP forums, where every second topic right now is about nerfing the AIU and it's kind of more fun listening to whining about current issues. 

I should go.

Modifié par kaileena_sands, 03 mars 2013 - 11:50 .

[Merchant2006]

ALERT. THE VOCAL MINORITY HAS SPOKEN. LOCKDOWN INCOMING.

I love how people say THIS IS ONLY 50,000 PEOPLE OUT OF 1 MILLION TWOOPS. If out of a survey that consists of 100,000 and 75,000 of them dislike the ending, what makes you think that the remaining 900,000 are all going to have positive feedback? That's a solid 75% right there, and if you compare it to the majority then I'm certain you're looking at a huge number of people who are still upset.

LOOK GUYS I HAVE NUMBERS IN MY POST SO IM 100% LEGIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *chuckles*

Modifié par Merchant2006, 04 mars 2013 - 12:07 .

[iDeevil]

I don't know why people think any casual player, which really are the majority, still care.

Even a number of hardcore ones don't.

Hell, if I am honest with myself, I only 'care' about this thread because I am procratinating from doing some writing that *needs* to be finished. Once I've finished it, I'll probably crawl back into the game and out of the fandom because these days the fandom just isn't fun.

[Dragoonlordz]

Hexley UK wrote...

Total hogwash, you really do enjoy the smell of your own don't you?

While I agree that the polls are certainly not definitive proof they are an indication that most hated the endings...I have seen NOTHING to support your stance, I repeat NOTHING.

Show me 1 credible piece of evidence with decent numbers (10,000+)  that supports your view...just 1...come on...i'll wait....

Put up or shut up.

What a dumb thing for you to write. I'll explain why... Firstly as everyone with ounce of common sense realises that for most part only those most angry, offended or upset will vote in polls on the internet as a sign of their displeasure hence why so many negative polls when it came out. They actively seek out polls and review bomb to show their displeasure while those who are content or happy feel no need to vent. When I am happy about a game I don't come on their site to praise develpoers or seek out polls, when I am upset about a game I seek out polls and voice my concerns to developers. The rest of time I just continue playing what I enjoy or move on to the next game.

Secondly doing a poll an entire year after release would not get the same attention or even close to same quantity as 10,000+ people interested anymore voting on a game released a year ago. This goes back to how flawed that video is in that it's using reference material that's out of date to make a flawed assumption. As also said only polls with random selection can be used to show unbiased feedback. All the polls in his video were tainted by being baised polls and thats a fact. If you don't realise that then you don't know much about statistics. Even if made any pro-ending polls done on this site, it would still be biased because there is no random selection, your asking a specific small vocal/dedicated group which is not representative of those who are not so dedicated enough to vist this site all the time, vote in polls year(s) after release.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mars 2013 - 12:19 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It invalidated nothing. It did crumble and for the reasons I stated.

Secondly if you think that was biggest backlash in gaming history you must be living in a bubble (biggest equals largest amount of people not loudest small group of people). D3's backlash was of equal scale, hell even Fallout 3 or Duke Nukem was comparable. There are others too like WarZ and even DA2. If you think couple people filing FTC and BBB complaints makes it biggest backlash then your not very bright as people did those same things for all the games I just mentioned, they all also had review bombing, they all had threats and all had many articles written on them.

Most of those who hated them, still hate them just like the few stragglers who hang around here spewing forth bile about the ending. If you think some people sending some cupcakes makes it biggest then your mistaken even when take into account money raised for kids (ironically that many tried to claim their money back after found out was not buying a new ending) it was still not the biggest blacklash. The biggest backlash is the most people offended/hated it voicing that displeasure of which ME3 was not the most.

Thirdly you do not seem to grasp the concept of unbiased polling and the impact of the validity on those which are biased. An unbiased poll requires random selection, none of them in his video qualify. They are also out of date and uses them as evidence against post-EC state of game players when most of his polls are pre-EC. If you fail to see the flaws in that then take off your blindfold.

Lastly it is up to Bioware to release whatever information they choose, their choice not to do so does not mean either they have no evidence or that it is not favorable. It just means they have not chosen to give you that information. In game data like those two pictures you posted earlier neither show how many people bought the game or how many people liked it so even if they did release that same information shown in those pictures for ME3 you would be no better off with your stance.

The WarZ is recent and despite heavy attention of late did not garner even half the debacle of Mass Effect. At it's height, Mass Effect was on television news outlets like CNN - networks that otherwise could not give a damn about video games. Duke Nukem was criticised by parents in its heyday and the recent criticised for the abomination it was. Neither had the gaming commodity that up in arms.

DA2's controversy was minimal by comparison. People hated it, yet it did not see anywhere close to the media attention and outcry that Mass Effect 3 did. I was not referring to the FTC or BBB but to the example provided. When the largest web store in the world is offering a full refund for your product to appeal to their disgruntled customers. The backlash has escalated in significance.

I will concede Fallout 3's issues beyond Bethesda caving is limited, but I do not recall it getting the negative media attention Mass Effect 3 has. Granted, they relented early on fan outcry. Even if you remove the absolution, Mass Effect's ending controversy is enormous regardless where it ranks.

Random selection can be applied to participates in many of the more in-depth surveys that spanned the globe. When you have people from numerous countries, in numerous polls all reaching identical conclusions, you can infer a given probability. It may not be definitive analysis in an absolute sense but it does suggest a likelihood, especially when there is no contradicting evidence. The latest poll he linked was recent and the results remain consistent in their negativity. That indicates despite a year's time, the Internet opinion has remained the same.

That would be fine, had they chosen not to toss out a supposed statistic they now refuse to release publicly. It suggests the opposite, although I admit is not a definitive claim. Those pictures were merely an example of the data collection possibilities. Companies can and do release estimations on sales. As someone else mentioned, it can show how many people finished the game. Surely, if they can determine how often Garrus was used, they can likewise determine what missions were completed.

But let's set aside polls and surveys and instead look at MEHEM. Someone mentioned the download frequency makes up an estimated 76% of the PC market. Now perhaps not everyone who downloaded it completely disliked the ending but yet again, it is another negative.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 04 mars 2013 - 12:20 .

[Hexley UK]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Total hogwash, you really do enjoy the smell of your own don't you?

While I agree that the polls are certainly not definitive proof they are an indication that most hated the endings...I have seen NOTHING to support your stance, I repeat NOTHING.

Show me 1 credible piece of evidence with decent numbers (10,000+)  that supports your view...just 1...come on...i'll wait....

Put up or shut up.

What a dumb thing for you to write. I'll explain why... Firstly as everyone with ounce of common sense realises that for most part only those most angry, offended or upset will vote in polls on the internet as a sign of their displeasure hence why so many negative polls when it came out. They actively seek out polls and review bomb to show their displeasure while those who are content or happy feel no need to vent. When I am happy about a game I don't come on their site to praise develpoers or seek out polls, when I am upset about a game I seek out polls and voice my concerns to developers. The rest of time I just continue playing what I enjoy or move on to the next game.

Secondly doing a poll an entire year after release would not get the same attention or even close to same quantity as 10,000+ people interested anymore voting on a game released a year ago. This goes back to how flawed that video is in that it's using reference material that's out of date to make a flawed assumption. As also said only polls with random selection can be used to show unbiased feedback. All the polls in his video were tainted by being baised polls and thats a fact. If you don't realise that then you don't know much about statistics. Even if made any pro-ending polls done on this site, it would still be biased because there is no random selection, your asking a specific small vocal/dedicated group which is not representative of those who are not so dedicated enough to vist this site all the time, vote in polls year(s) after release.

More waffle with nothing to back it up....still waiting for ANY evidence of your stance.

Take your time.

And just so you know, telling people what they wrote is dumb and being condescending does nothing to make anyone take anything you say seriously.

Modifié par Hexley UK, 04 mars 2013 - 12:26 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Hexley UK wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Total hogwash, you really do enjoy the smell of your own don't you?

While I agree that the polls are certainly not definitive proof they are an indication that most hated the endings...I have seen NOTHING to support your stance, I repeat NOTHING.

Show me 1 credible piece of evidence with decent numbers (10,000+)  that supports your view...just 1...come on...i'll wait....

Put up or shut up.

What a dumb thing for you to write. I'll explain why... Firstly as everyone with ounce of common sense realises that for most part only those most angry, offended or upset will vote in polls on the internet as a sign of their displeasure hence why so many negative polls when it came out. They actively seek out polls and review bomb to show their displeasure while those who are content or happy feel no need to vent. When I am happy about a game I don't come on their site to praise develpoers or seek out polls, when I am upset about a game I seek out polls and voice my concerns to developers. The rest of time I just continue playing what I enjoy or move on to the next game.

Secondly doing a poll an entire year after release would not get the same attention or even close to same quantity as 10,000+ people interested anymore voting on a game released a year ago. This goes back to how flawed that video is in that it's using reference material that's out of date to make a flawed assumption. As also said only polls with random selection can be used to show unbiased feedback. All the polls in his video were tainted by being baised polls and thats a fact. If you don't realise that then you don't know much about statistics. Even if made any pro-ending polls done on this site, it would still be biased because there is no random selection, your asking a specific small vocal/dedicated group which is not representative of those who are not so dedicated enough to vist this site all the time, vote in polls year(s) after release.

More waffle with nothing to back it up....still waiting for ANY evidence of your stance.

Take your time.

And just so you know, telling people what they wrote is dumb and being a condescending little kid does nothing to make anyone take anything you say seriously.

Quite amusing since to me you came across as childish the moment you said what I highlighed above so any moral highground you think you have on the subject does not exist. I also gave you my answer to your previous response above. I do not care if you like the answer I provided or not.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mars 2013 - 12:34 .

[Hexley UK]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Total hogwash, you really do enjoy the smell of your own don't you?

While I agree that the polls are certainly not definitive proof they are an indication that most hated the endings...I have seen NOTHING to support your stance, I repeat NOTHING.

Show me 1 credible piece of evidence with decent numbers (10,000+)  that supports your view...just 1...come on...i'll wait....

Put up or shut up.

What a dumb thing for you to write. I'll explain why... Firstly as everyone with ounce of common sense realises that for most part only those most angry, offended or upset will vote in polls on the internet as a sign of their displeasure hence why so many negative polls when it came out. They actively seek out polls and review bomb to show their displeasure while those who are content or happy feel no need to vent. When I am happy about a game I don't come on their site to praise develpoers or seek out polls, when I am upset about a game I seek out polls and voice my concerns to developers. The rest of time I just continue playing what I enjoy or move on to the next game.

Secondly doing a poll an entire year after release would not get the same attention or even close to same quantity as 10,000+ people interested anymore voting on a game released a year ago. This goes back to how flawed that video is in that it's using reference material that's out of date to make a flawed assumption. As also said only polls with random selection can be used to show unbiased feedback. All the polls in his video were tainted by being baised polls and thats a fact. If you don't realise that then you don't know much about statistics. Even if made any pro-ending polls done on this site, it would still be biased because there is no random selection, your asking a specific small vocal/dedicated group which is not representative of those who are not so dedicated enough to vist this site all the time, vote in polls year(s) after release.

More waffle with nothing to back it up....still waiting for ANY evidence of your stance.

Take your time.

And just so you know, telling people what they wrote is dumb and being a condescending little kid does nothing to make anyone take anything you say seriously.

Quite amusing since to me you came across as childish the moment you said what I highlighed above.

I also gave you my answer to your previous response above. I do not care if you like the answer I provided or not.

So you got nothing then...glad we sorted that out.

[Xellith]

Just posting this in case someone finds it useful since someone just posted.

According to studies done by the Technical Assistance Research Programs (TARP), for every irritated customer who complains, 26 do not, even though they have grievances. That means that if a company receives 10 customer complaints, there are probably 260 customers out there who have complaints but don’t voice them…at least not to the company. The reality is you probably don’t know how many dissatisfied customers you have because DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS DO NOT COMPLAIN.

[Dragoonlordz]

Hexley UK wrote...

So you got nothing then...glad we sorted that out.

I pointed out the ignorance of what you were asking. That is all I feel is required.

[Alamar2078]

Whether you liked the endings or not I personally am just left with the feeling that ME3 could and should have been so much better.

In the end I just say:
-- get over it
-- have long memories
-- vote with your wallet

[Hexley UK]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

So you got nothing then...glad we sorted that out.

I pointed out the ignorance of what you were asking. That is all I feel is required.

Asking for you to back up your condescending & baseless waffle with actual evidence and facts is now considered ignorant?

Still waiting btw.

[Dragoonlordz]

Xellith wrote...

Just posting this in case someone finds it useful since someone just posted.

According to studies done by the Technical Assistance Research Programs (TARP), for every irritated customer who complains, 26 do not, even though they have grievances. That means that if a company receives 10 customer complaints, there are probably 260 customers out there who have complaints but don’t voice them…at least not to the company. The reality is you probably don’t know how many dissatisfied customers you have because DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS DO NOT COMPLAIN.

Yet the thread and video claims they have factual evidence to state a majority still hate it. Even using TARPs analysis they are still making assumptions not stating factual proof to back up their claim. Probability does not equal certainty. The reality is noone knows if majority hates the ending especially now and your TARP comment merely describes probability which cannot be used to make definitive factual statements like the OP and the video are making. At best all they can say is there is a probability that a lot of people still hate it, would be a stretch even then based in data collection bias via the polling in the video.

Is it possible most people hate it, sure just like it is possible most people like it now.

Is it factual certainty that is claimed by the op and video, certainly not.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mars 2013 - 12:55 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Hexley UK wrote...

Asking for you to back up your condescending & baseless waffle with actual evidence and facts is now considered ignorant?

Still waiting btw.

Wait till end of time for all I care. I told you why you won't get such and why it was silly to ask for it.

YIf you are waiting for an answer to your ignorant question, you can wait forever if you like.

[Hexley UK]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Just posting this in case someone finds it useful since someone just posted.

According to studies done by the Technical Assistance Research Programs (TARP), for every irritated customer who complains, 26 do not, even though they have grievances. That means that if a company receives 10 customer complaints, there are probably 260 customers out there who have complaints but don’t voice them…at least not to the company. The reality is you probably don’t know how many dissatisfied customers you have because DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS DO NOT COMPLAIN.

Yet the thread and video claims they have factual evidence to state a majority still hate it. Even using TARPs analysis they are still making assumptions not stating factual proof. Probability does not equal certainty. The reality is noone knows if majority hates the ending especially now, and your TARP comment merely describes probability which cannot be used to make definitive factual statements like the OP and the video are making. At best all they can say is there is a probability that a lot of people still hate it, would be a stretch even then based in data collection bias in the polling.

You keep talking about bias (which all polls are by their very nature), on a forum that is purely for owners and fans of said games people would be MORE likely to like something not less.

Modifié par Hexley UK, 04 mars 2013 - 12:44 .

[Hexley UK]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Asking for you to back up your condescending & baseless waffle with actual evidence and facts is now considered ignorant?

Still waiting btw.

Wait till end of time for all I care. I told you why you won't get such and why it was silly to ask for it.

YIf you are waiting for an answer to your ignorant question, you can wait forever if you like.

Yea just as I thought, all talk, no substance and a complete lack of any evidence...any point you make is pure baseless conjecture and opinion.

Modifié par Hexley UK, 04 mars 2013 - 12:48 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Hexley UK wrote...

Yea just as I thought, all talk, no substance and a complete lack of any evidence...any point you make is pure conjecture and opinion.

What do you think your doing if not expressing conjecture and your opinion? Just like the video and OP are doing, including myself. The only factual data you have is x amount of people cared enough to vote in the poll and that is how those x amount voted. The difference is while I point out why the conclusion of the video is based on flawed data gathering and the assumption being stated as fact is wrong, that probability does not equal certainty; your merely making pointless comments and ignorant suggestions to refute my applied 'common sense'.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mars 2013 - 12:58 .

[iDeevil]

Xellith wrote...

Just posting this in case someone finds it useful since someone just posted.

According to studies done by the Technical Assistance Research Programs (TARP), for every irritated customer who complains, 26 do not, even though they have grievances. That means that if a company receives 10 customer complaints, there are probably 260 customers out there who have complaints but don’t voice them…at least not to the company. The reality is you probably don’t know how many dissatisfied customers you have because DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS DO NOT COMPLAIN.

Interesting addition.  People also do not praise.  How often do people working in retail, for example, get praise for a job well done.  Yet, if someone was dissatisfied, they are *more* likely to complain.

[iDeevil]

Hexley UK wrote...

Yea just as I thought, all talk, no substance and a complete lack of any evidence...any point you make is pure baseless conjecture and opinion.

That's pretty much statistics all over.  They are conjecture and opinion that may, or may not be, backed up by correctly designed and used scientific methods.

[Benchpress610]

The incontrovertible fact remains that all the polls and surveys done in BSN and other places show the majority of players didn’t like the ending. Ratios range from 3-1 to 10-1. One year later, there is not one poll or survey showing any different…NONE.
Someone might say the sample is not large enough and we may never see exact numbers, but I see a trend here.

[iDeevil]

Benchpress610 wrote...

The incontrovertible fact remains that all the polls and surveys done in BSN and other places show the majority of players didn’t like the ending. Ratios range from 3-1 to 10-1. One year later, there is not one poll or survey showing any different…NONE.
Someone might say the sample is not large enough and we may never see exact numbers, but I see a trend here.

One year later there is not one poll that shows - anything.

One year later the majority of people have moved on.  It's the nature of the beast.

[Dragoonlordz]

Benchpress610 wrote...

The incontrovertible fact remains that all the polls and surveys done in BSN and other places show the majority of players didn’t like the ending. Ratios range from 3-1 to 10-1. One year later, there is not one poll or survey showing any different…NONE.
Someone might say the sample is not large enough and we may never see exact numbers, but I see a trend here.

All polls rely on probability never certainty. The OP and the video claims the latter which makes them inaccurate.

You also have to take into account the bias on any poll, which can impact it's credibility. You must use recent broad ranging data gathering for current probabilities (timing is a factor, sources of data, random vs targeted polling etc), cannot use pre-EC polls to assume or reflect current opinions. Then there is real world factors to take into account such as the likelihood of those happy with content willing to go online and voice such being taken into account vs those of discontent which are far more likely to vote on such which also leads back to the validity of the data based on bias.

It is fine to say you believe in the probability of more people hate it than like it based on polls you have seen. It is not fine to say factually that it is without doubt a certainty. The video and OP made the mistake of doing the latter not the former which is why they are constantly being brought into question and pointed out the flaw in their reasoning both on the comments section of the video and here in this thread. Polls cannot be used to make factual comments and conclusions about anything outside of the amount of people who voted in the poll and what they voted for, outside of that all you have is probabilities and that can be tainted by the bias of how the poll was done, when it was done and the group who took part.

50,000 people vote in a poll (lets assume verified votes and little to no bias) it is a factual statement that many people voted, and that is what what voted for in the poll. It is merely a probability that % amount of people outside the poll felt same way using it as sample but never factual or certainty. So making factual definitive statements like the OP and the video have done is both flawed and wrong.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mars 2013 - 02:05 .