426 réponses à ce sujet

[valkulon]

I'll take biased opinion for 400 Trebeck.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Hey there, maker of the poll here.

I don't like the video. I made this poll out of a whim and designed it to conform to what i had seen on the BSN. Mainly mostly mixed or bad reactions to the ending, so I gave the people who hated the ending the most variety and those who liked or were neutral on the ending just 2 becasue I knew people on the BSN who felt that way weren't that numerous.

Last option was a joke and I didn't think it through, and I can't edit the last option at all. At the time, I didn't see a problem with it since I knew that troll sentiment was expressed on these forums before, but after getting many comments about how it's offensive and to remove it, I wish I could.

Clevernoob used my poll without telling me, and only told me about using it after he uploaded the video. Don't really like it, though I can somewhat understand him.

[iDeevil]

FlamingBoy wrote...

McFlurry598 wrote...

This video is crap and so are CleverNoobs evidence. Over 1 Million copies of mass effect 3 has been sold. Saying a mere 78k is the 'vast majority' is complete and utter bull****. Then the votes from the other polls have the same numbers, probably 95% of those votes are voted over and over by the same people whining about the endings. If you think a mere 75k is the 'vast majority' then you need help with statistics. This guy has no life, he just sits on his ass all day on BSN comparing and creating polls. Don't believe this guy, he's an idiot who needs help in statistics more than anything

its called the sampling method, the 75k is a representative of a whole.

thats how stats works

To be fair his sampling method and the surveys used to collect data are both flawed and biased.  He proved nothing.

realoty is a good chunk of fans who have played to game don't visit forums.  There are many psychology papers that discuss how people are more vocal when unhappy the. When they are happy.  Now, I'm not claiming there isn't a number of folks who are still unhappy.  I am saying just because there are unhappy folks you cannot conclude they are the majority of 'all' fans.

[FlamingBoy]

iDeevil wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

McFlurry598 wrote...

This video is crap and so are CleverNoobs evidence. Over 1 Million copies of mass effect 3 has been sold. Saying a mere 78k is the 'vast majority' is complete and utter bull****. Then the votes from the other polls have the same numbers, probably 95% of those votes are voted over and over by the same people whining about the endings. If you think a mere 75k is the 'vast majority' then you need help with statistics. This guy has no life, he just sits on his ass all day on BSN comparing and creating polls. Don't believe this guy, he's an idiot who needs help in statistics more than anything

its called the sampling method, the 75k is a representative of a whole.

thats how stats works

To be fair his sampling method and the surveys used to collect data are both flawed and biased.  He proved nothing.

realoty is a good chunk of fans who have played to game don't visit forums.  There are many psychology papers that discuss how people are more vocal when unhappy the. When they are happy.  Now, I'm not claiming there isn't a number of folks who are still unhappy.  I am saying just because there are unhappy folks you cannot conclude they are the majority of 'all' fans.

the method was fine, pretty standard actually, the sample method by its very natured is flawed

I agree he proved nothing, but he did show a correlation in the data, that is whats important

[Jadebaby]

Jamie9 wrote...

That post has 6 "I didn't like the ending" options, 1 "it was okay", and 1 "it was fine".

An unbias poll, this is not.

How about these then?

[Alien Number Six]

Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha, and Ha. By the way I just spilled my milk anyone want to cry about that?

[iDeevil]

FlamingBoy wrote...

iDeevil wrote...

To be fair his sampling method and the surveys used to collect data are both flawed and biased.  He proved nothing.

realoty is a good chunk of fans who have played to game don't visit forums.  There are many psychology papers that discuss how people are more vocal when unhappy the. When they are happy.  Now, I'm not claiming there isn't a number of folks who are still unhappy.  I am saying just because there are unhappy folks you cannot conclude they are the majority of 'all' fans.

the method was fine, pretty standard actually, the sample method by its very natured is flawed

I agree he proved nothing, but he did show a correlation in the data, that is whats important

you can say the method was fine 100 times, but it wasn't.  He didn't actively seek out beyond the obvious community. He sampled from a biased location.  Then the questions continued with the bias by not offering straight forward yes/no like/dislike responses.  He asked, majoritivy, questions that all came back to 'unhappy' in his sstats.  This is not a good method.

It'd be like surveying members of the KKK as to how much they like Obama as president. The. using that same info to prove that Obama is hated by an overwhelming majority of Americans.

This in itself is. a danger of sampling and statistics.  Results can easily be skewed at a base sampling level.

[McFlurry598]

FlamingBoy wrote...

McFlurry598 wrote...

This video is crap and so are CleverNoobs evidence. Over 1 Million copies of mass effect 3 has been sold. Saying a mere 78k is the 'vast majority' is complete and utter bull****. Then the votes from the other polls have the same numbers, probably 95% of those votes are voted over and over by the same people whining about the endings. If you think a mere 75k is the 'vast majority' then you need help with statistics. This guy has no life, he just sits on his ass all day on BSN comparing and creating polls. Don't believe this guy, he's an idiot who needs help in statistics more than anything

its called the sampling method, the 75k is a representative of a whole.

thats how stats works

I know how stats work, the sample is still way to small 

[iDeevil]

[quote]Jadebaby wrote...

[quote]Jamie9 wrote...

That post has 6 "I didn't like the ending" options, 1 "it was okay", and 1 "it was fine".

An unbias poll, this is not.[/quote]

How about these then?[/quote

That poll is pretty pointless when it comes to talking about 'fans' of the series.  Especially when about only 600 people could be bothered voting on them.

All those polls prove is that the people at Bioware social, who saw the poll, may have been unhappy.  Internet polls rarely can be used as a qualitative response as they are easy to circumvent.

[Robhuzz]

FlamingBoy wrote...

the phrase numbers don't lie is a bit of a misnomer

The video is not very popular, alot of attacks go at the creator unfortunately.
I personally not sure the video is accurate, his method and conclusions are hard to ignore with our other evidential data

You cannot actually take those polls and make a conclusion since the people posting on the internet are a small minority of the fanbase. You can use sampling but it's impossible to say whether the people posting on the internet are representative for the entire fanbase. What you CAN deduce from these polls however is the exact opposite of what Bioware has been saying: Of all the people posting on the internet, the great MAJORITY dislikes the ending. There is NO evidence anywhere to support bioware's claims. And they refuse to present any. That's as good as saying they just made up the numbers.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 03 mars 2013 - 07:32 .

[iDeevil]

Robhuzz wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

the phrase numbers don't lie is a bit of a misnomer

The video is not very popular, alot of attacks go at the creator unfortunately.
I personally not sure the video is accurate, his method and conclusions are hard to ignore with our other evidential data

You cannot actually take those polls and make a conclusion since the people posting on the internet are a small minority of the fanbase. You can use sampling but it's impossible to say whether the people posting on the internet are representative for the entire fanbase. What you CAN deduce from these polls however is the exact opposite of what Bioware has been saying: Of all the people posting on the internet, the great MAJORITY dislikes the ending. There is NO evidence anywhere to support bioware's claims. And they refuse to present any. That's as good as saying they just made up the numbers.

I'm not sure you can say that Bioware made up the numbers.  Businesses such as Bioware do a lot of surveying OUTSIDE the Internet, as well as a lot of testing in panels or focus groups.

[samgurl775]

I agree that the majority is still disappointed, but he prattled on too much about the IT.

[Mr.House]

samgurl775 wrote...

I agree that the majority is still disappointed, but he prattled on too much about the IT.

It's Clevernoob. He is a well knowen IT fan who did many videos that where very long on the subject, was convinced Bioware would do that, created the rurmor about Project X, says he has insiders in Bioware and then says Bioware didn't listen to any fan when Bioware does nothing with IT. I wish people would just ignore Clevernoob and relise what he is doing. He's simply milking the ME ending fiasco to get views on his site and videos(his ME videos are more popular then anything he has ever made) and also being very bias. You do know he will in fact block people from commenting on his videos if you don't agree with him?

Really, people need to stop linking this crap, the more people view it, the more crap Clevernoob will make on this subject.

Modifié par Mr.House, 03 mars 2013 - 07:47 .

[MarchWaltz]

The ending sucked.

Bioware got lazy

Bioware is now focusing on cash-grabbing than actual game quality.

I stopped caring. I feel much better now. I'm still getting the new DLC, but like I said, I accepted the ending. No use to stress yourself.

[Robhuzz]

samgurl775 wrote...

I agree that the majority is still disappointed, but he prattled on too much about the IT.

I think it's not that everyone (at that time) loved the IT itself that much at that time. I think it was more that it offered a way out. A way to retcon the ending while keeping bioware's 'artistic integrity' intact. This way they could leave in the starkid and create real endings that took place afterwards.

It was the sole reason why I supported IT for a while - it offered an actual way out, not only for the fans but also for Bioware and thus it was more likely to happen than a simple retcon of the ending.

I do agree that he talks a bit too much about the IT though.

I'm not sure you can say that Bioware made up the numbers.  Businesses such as Bioware do a lot of surveying OUTSIDE the Internet, as well as a lot of testing in panels or focus groups.

Well that's the problem. Usually when anyone holds back information that's based on sources that we do not know about, we cannot call them reliable. Nobody would accept numbers or a statement without a source that we can verify. We know nothing about these focus groups of surveys that they did - IF they did them -. For all we know they only asked 1000 people who were into ME3 for the action part. Of course they're going to say 'fine' or 'meh - can live with it' when it comes to the ending.

Thing is, there is nothing to indicate that bioware hasn't been talking out of their rear ends when it comes to 'evidence', 'numbers' and the whole 'minority/majority' part. We only have the numbers that are visible - the forum polls around the globe -, and those numbers contradict bioware's statements.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 03 mars 2013 - 07:51 .

[Bedavenerabilis]

He didn'tprove ANYTHING- he just ignores the fact that none of this polls can be considered valid by any standard.

Further i am quiteshocked how long people can dwell on a GAME. Thats not healthy, seriously.

[Grubas]

Bedavenerabilis wrote...

He didn'tprove ANYTHING- he just ignores the fact that none of this polls can be considered valid by any standard.

Further i am quiteshocked how long people can dwell on a GAME. Thats not healthy, seriously.

Because of the silent majority Right? RIGHT?

No matter what poll you show, it all comes down to fans didnt like the ending in general. 
Live with it.

Modifié par Grubas, 03 mars 2013 - 07:53 .

[UrgentArchengel]

Doesn't matter whether or not it's true. Do you still expect them to stop, and drop everything so they can give you what you demand one year after release? Or is it an admission, and an apology your looking for? This is what I don't understand about this. It's not the point that you don't like it, nobody ever said that, it's the point your demanding it still, after a year, and an ending "fix". All it's going to do is give somebody a headache. Your not going to get what your demanding.

[Bedavenerabilis]

Grubas wrote...

Bedavenerabilis wrote...

He didn'tprove ANYTHING- he just ignores the fact that none of this polls can be considered valid by any standard.

Further i am quiteshocked how long people can dwell on a GAME. Thats not healthy, seriously.

Because of the silent majority Right? RIGHT?

Because of the simplest rules of statistics. He is hypothesising cleverly based on the data he got, but its just wrong to consider this proof.

[iDeevil]

Grubas wrote...

Bedavenerabilis wrote...

He didn'tprove ANYTHING- he just ignores the fact that none of this polls can be considered valid by any standard.

Further i am quiteshocked how long people can dwell on a GAME. Thats not healthy, seriously.

Because of the silent majority Right? RIGHT?

No matter what poll you show, it all comes down to fans didnt like the ending in general. 
Live with it.

wouldnt it be hilarious if the true silent majority did enjoy it or just didn't care all that much.  This 'We Speak for the Majority' BS fans have is as ridiculous as the 'You're not a True Fan' crap.  Who cares about the majority, why can't fans ever just speak for themselves*, you know, as an individual.  The need for validation is ridiculous and pointless.  Especially now, a year later.

It's a lot of negativity to carry for those who are still angry at the endings. 

[Bedavenerabilis]

Mostly themselves... Bioware went on now and is breeding the enxt project they can make their money with- nobody over there has a headache over this anymore

[alsonamedbort]

At least one of these polls was Pre-EC. Also posters in this forum admitted to voting in polls multiple times because they wanted BioWare to get the message.

[zsom]

FlamingBoy wrote...

McFlurry598 wrote...

This video is crap and so are CleverNoobs evidence. Over 1 Million copies of mass effect 3 has been sold. Saying a mere 78k is the 'vast majority' is complete and utter bull****. Then the votes from the other polls have the same numbers, probably 95% of those votes are voted over and over by the same people whining about the endings. If you think a mere 75k is the 'vast majority' then you need help with statistics. This guy has no life, he just sits on his ass all day on BSN comparing and creating polls. Don't believe this guy, he's an idiot who needs help in statistics more than anything

its called the sampling method, the 75k is a representative of a whole.

thats how stats works

Mind giving me the confidence interval and the standard error as well?  Not the mention the sampling method, because "i made a poll on the interwebz" is not a very relyable sampling as you surely know.
Unfortunately any survey without these is an asspull nothing else...

Edit: Typo...

Modifié par zsom, 03 mars 2013 - 08:17 .

[Bedavenerabilis]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

It is an interesting dichotomy.

I
want people to avoid smugboy too, but there is only one way to find out
how much of a haughty assclown he is; and that is by watching a video
of his. The worst part is that (I believe) he makes money off of his
videos, so every view is only adding to his earnings.

I watched about 3 minutes of one video he made, and I was done.

Never again.

Didn't know this guy before- but seriously, i got the same impression of him only by the way he uses his "arguments"

alsonamedbort wrote...

At least one of these polls was Pre-EC. Also posters in this forum admitted to voting in polls multiple times because they wanted BioWare to get the message.

And this would be one of the reasons why the polls he cites are never to be considered valid