Jadebaby wrote...
you have to then account for the fact that only 38% of people even finished the game.
Modifié par Robosexual, 03 mars 2013 - 11:48 .
iDeevil wrote...
Indy_S wrote...
If there's doubt that the majority of consumers liked your product, that's a sign that something is wrong. Regardless of whether or not the majority hates the ending, it remains a significant portion of the consumer base. This should not be dismissed.
And this is why they are doing a ground swell of market research for future ventures. ME3's ending was in the bag back in March. It's time to look forward. Bioware do seem to have learnt from this, even if we aren't seeing a change in this game.
What makes me sad that *if* the leaked ending was meant to be what we were going to get, what we did get is a direct result of some ass leaking the script early sending people to hurridly rewrite a new ending.
Robosexual wrote...
Jadebaby wrote...
you have to then account for the fact that only 38% of people even finished the game.
Which boosts the numbers up to a staggering 4.7% and 11.1%.
A situation where even if quadruple the amount of people hated the end than those that voted, it still wouldn't be the majority.
Jadebaby wrote...
Eterna5 wrote...
IF you're done with Mass Effect then what are you waiting for?
You can't get rid of me Eterna, I am apart of you now. As long as you are here, I always will be.
We're in this together Hank.
Modifié par Eterna5, 03 mars 2013 - 11:49 .
Robosexual wrote...
Proof would be proof that the majority hates it.
Right now the biggest numbers we have on people that hate the ending are the Retake movement, which happen to be 1.8% of the people that bought ME3 or 4.2% of the people that bought ME3 in March alone.
That means 98.2% of people or 95.8% of people didn't vote.
Now you can come to a conclusion that if 4.2% of people think something the majority agrees with them, but that's really shaky ground to stand on and really isn't proof at all.
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
Proof would be proof that the majority hates it.
Right now the biggest numbers we have on people that hate the ending are the Retake movement, which happen to be 1.8% of the people that bought ME3 or 4.2% of the people that bought ME3 in March alone.
That means 98.2% of people or 95.8% of people didn't vote.
Now you can come to a conclusion that if 4.2% of people think something the majority agrees with them, but that's really shaky ground to stand on and really isn't proof at all.
You have just tossed out any validity of all polling and the value of polling pretty much ever. I don't accept that. Polls may not be prefectly accurate, but they can (and often do) give very useful and valid feedback of what a large population thinks based on a very small sample size.
For example, one can (if one does it correctly) get a very accurate national poll for the US (apprx 300million people) with a sample size as small as 500 people.
-POlaris
Modifié par Robosexual, 03 mars 2013 - 11:50 .
Robosexual wrote...
Jadebaby wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
But that doesn't back up your claim, that's not how it works, watch:
I can back it up. I'm going to say a factual statement right now. I've never seen anything that showed that Zeus isn't going to destroy every being on earth soon. Can you refute that?
Don't you see? That doesn't back up my claim that Zeus is going to kill every living being on earth if someone can't refute it. That's not how burden of proof works. If I make a claim I have to back it up. Someone not making a counter claim isn't proof of my claim.
What you said and what I said are not the same. What proof do you have that Zeus IS going to destroy every being on earth soon? I bet it's not a concrete as the polls.
What proof do you have that the majority hates the endings?
Robosexual wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
What proof do you have that the majority hates the endings?
Define "proof". Unless you can interview every simple person that has played and finished ME3 (very unlikely), you aren't going to get absolute proof..and such is highly unreasonable. However, we can look at data from sample sizes of people that have played and completed ME3 and come up with at least some conclusions. The better the data collection, the better those conclusions will be.
-Polaris
Proof would be proof that the majority hates it.
Right now the biggest numbers we have on people that hate the ending are the Retake movement, which happen to be 1.8% of the people that bought ME3 or 4.2% of the people that bought ME3 in March alone.
That means 98.2% of people or 95.8% of people didn't vote.
Now you can come to a conclusion that if 4.2% of people think something the majority agrees with them, but that's really shaky ground to stand on and really isn't proof at all.
You have just tossed out any validity of all polling and the value of polling pretty much ever. I don't accept that. Polls may not be prefectly accurate, but they can (and often do) give very useful and valid feedback of what a large population thinks based on a very small sample size.
For example, one can (if one does it correctly) get a very accurate national poll for the US (apprx 300million people) with a sample size as small as 500 people.
-POlaris
Like all those awards that ME3 won for example.
Dr_Extrem wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
What proof do you have that the majority hates the endings?
on tthe other hand .. what proof do you have, to disprove jade?
you only have the word of a community representative - and that is not much without its confirmation by hard facts.
both sides cant prove anything ... or they dont want (what is worse).
Modifié par Robosexual, 03 mars 2013 - 11:52 .
IanPolaris wrote...
iDeevil wrote...
Indy_S wrote...
If there's doubt that the majority of consumers liked your product, that's a sign that something is wrong. Regardless of whether or not the majority hates the ending, it remains a significant portion of the consumer base. This should not be dismissed.
And this is why they are doing a ground swell of market research for future ventures. ME3's ending was in the bag back in March. It's time to look forward. Bioware do seem to have learnt from this, even if we aren't seeing a change in this game.
What makes me sad that *if* the leaked ending was meant to be what we were going to get, what we did get is a direct result of some ass leaking the script early sending people to hurridly rewrite a new ending.
I saw the leaked script. Other than some cosmetic changes (Guardian rather than Catalyst for one), the endings in the leak were almost identical to what was released last March.
-Polaris
Robosexual wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
Proof would be proof that the majority hates it.
Right now the biggest numbers we have on people that hate the ending are the Retake movement, which happen to be 1.8% of the people that bought ME3 or 4.2% of the people that bought ME3 in March alone.
That means 98.2% of people or 95.8% of people didn't vote.
Now you can come to a conclusion that if 4.2% of people think something the majority agrees with them, but that's really shaky ground to stand on and really isn't proof at all.
You have just tossed out any validity of all polling and the value of polling pretty much ever. I don't accept that. Polls may not be prefectly accurate, but they can (and often do) give very useful and valid feedback of what a large population thinks based on a very small sample size.
For example, one can (if one does it correctly) get a very accurate national poll for the US (apprx 300million people) with a sample size as small as 500 people.
-POlaris
Like all those awards that ME3 won for example.
Robosexual wrote...
Jadebaby wrote...
you have to then account for the fact that only 38% of people even finished the game.
Which boosts the numbers up to a staggering 4.7% and 11.1%.
A situation where even if those that hated the end was quadruple that of those who voted, it still wouldn't be the majority.
iDeevil wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
iDeevil wrote...
Indy_S wrote...
If there's doubt that the majority of consumers liked your product, that's a sign that something is wrong. Regardless of whether or not the majority hates the ending, it remains a significant portion of the consumer base. This should not be dismissed.
And this is why they are doing a ground swell of market research for future ventures. ME3's ending was in the bag back in March. It's time to look forward. Bioware do seem to have learnt from this, even if we aren't seeing a change in this game.
What makes me sad that *if* the leaked ending was meant to be what we were going to get, what we did get is a direct result of some ass leaking the script early sending people to hurridly rewrite a new ending.
I saw the leaked script. Other than some cosmetic changes (Guardian rather than Catalyst for one), the endings in the leak were almost identical to what was released last March.
-Polaris
There was actually a lot more information to explain how we got for there to here. It made more cohesive sense and closed a couple of those buggy plot holes. Not all of them mind you, which would be impossible given that they had been stacking up since the first game.
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
You have just tossed out any validity of all polling and the value of polling pretty much ever. I don't accept that. Polls may not be prefectly accurate, but they can (and often do) give very useful and valid feedback of what a large population thinks based on a very small sample size.
For example, one can (if one does it correctly) get a very accurate national poll for the US (apprx 300million people) with a sample size as small as 500 people.
-POlaris
Like all those awards that ME3 won for example.
This proves nothing other than there is a rift the size of the Grand Canyon between how so-called professional reviewers view EA/Bioware games and how the actual customers do. Remember DA2? We saw all sorts of high praise and critical acclaim when DA2 was first released too.....
-Polaris
Robosexual wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
You have just tossed out any validity of all polling and the value of polling pretty much ever. I don't accept that. Polls may not be prefectly accurate, but they can (and often do) give very useful and valid feedback of what a large population thinks based on a very small sample size.
For example, one can (if one does it correctly) get a very accurate national poll for the US (apprx 300million people) with a sample size as small as 500 people.
-POlaris
Like all those awards that ME3 won for example.
This proves nothing other than there is a rift the size of the Grand Canyon between how so-called professional reviewers view EA/Bioware games and how the actual customers do. Remember DA2? We saw all sorts of high praise and critical acclaim when DA2 was first released too.....
-Polaris
I read a lot of reader voted awards there.
Jadebaby wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
Jadebaby wrote...
you have to then account for the fact that only 38% of people even finished the game.
Which boosts the numbers up to a staggering 4.7% and 11.1%.
A situation where even if those that hated the end was quadruple that of those who voted, it still wouldn't be the majority.
4.7% and 11.1% of people who go on forums. As you said yourself, not everyone does.
Robosexual wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
You have just tossed out any validity of all polling and the value of polling pretty much ever. I don't accept that. Polls may not be prefectly accurate, but they can (and often do) give very useful and valid feedback of what a large population thinks based on a very small sample size.
For example, one can (if one does it correctly) get a very accurate national poll for the US (apprx 300million people) with a sample size as small as 500 people.
-POlaris
Like all those awards that ME3 won for example.
This proves nothing other than there is a rift the size of the Grand Canyon between how so-called professional reviewers view EA/Bioware games and how the actual customers do. Remember DA2? We saw all sorts of high praise and critical acclaim when DA2 was first released too.....
-Polaris
I read a lot of reader voted awards there.
Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 03 mars 2013 - 12:06 .
IanPolaris wrote...
iDeevil wrote...
There was actually a lot more information to explain how we got for there to here. It made more cohesive sense and closed a couple of those buggy plot holes. Not all of them mind you, which would be impossible given that they had been stacking up since the first game.
I disagree. I saw those endings and we commented on them here before it was shut down. Those endings (the leaked ones) were as badly received then (~Nov 2011) as the actual pre-EC endings were in March 2012, and while there was a little more info, the Guardian was a clear Deus Ex Machina and called that at the time, and still came out completely from left field and people did NOT like it. The outrage was less because it was a leak and most thought at the time Bioware would fix it.
They didn't.
-Polaris
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
I read a lot of reader voted awards there.
Doesn't work that way. Sorry, but there is a wide rift between what the gaming journalism sites like and what the people that play the game like. Don't believe me? Look at Metacritic. There are all sorts of ways to goose "reader" voted awards to get what your editor likes. I am not saying this was done, but I am suspicious. DA2 was highly acclaimed too for about six months before most professional reviewers came to their senses.
-Polaris
Modifié par Robosexual, 03 mars 2013 - 12:09 .
Dr_Extrem wrote...
first: you can only vote, if you are a member of the academy.
second: only actors can vore other actors, directors only for directors etc.
third: you have to watch the movie in a theatre to participate.
ign: make an account
btw. 2012 was a weak year for games in general.
Robosexual wrote...
Jadebaby wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
Jadebaby wrote...
you have to then account for the fact that only 38% of people even finished the game.
Which boosts the numbers up to a staggering 4.7% and 11.1%.
A situation where even if those that hated the end was quadruple that of those who voted, it still wouldn't be the majority.
4.7% and 11.1% of people who go on forums. As you said yourself, not everyone does.
The Retake movement is Facebook, and linked on Wikipedia numerous times, so saying it's just forum goers would probably be doing it a bit of a disservice, not that I ever thought I'd say that for the Retake movement.
Robosexual wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
I read a lot of reader voted awards there.
Doesn't work that way. Sorry, but there is a wide rift between what the gaming journalism sites like and what the people that play the game like. Don't believe me? Look at Metacritic. There are all sorts of ways to goose "reader" voted awards to get what your editor likes. I am not saying this was done, but I am suspicious. DA2 was highly acclaimed too for about six months before most professional reviewers came to their senses.
-Polaris
We're delving into tin foil hat wearing territory here. If you say samples are a good way to judge something but chose to ignore all the numerous samples that disagree with you then there's really nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.
Even look above at that reply I got about fake accounts. This entire argument is "The majority of people hate the ending even though none of us can prove it but we're using samples to help back it up, just ignoring samples that don't because anything that suggests people enjoyed ME3 must be people making fake accounts".
It's ridiculous.
IanPolaris wrote...
The point is that there is more than enough data to make a reasonable inference that most people still do not in fact like the endings (to varying degrees). It is perfectly valid to project sample results from smaller populations onto bigger ones as long as the smaller sample is reasonable representative of the larger population. This is how polling works.
Given that multiple polls were done, with varying methedologies, and they all got about the same result leads me to conclude that their samples were in fact reasonable representatative and therefore the results should be taken as largely accurate.
-Polaris
(this is a joke for all those who feel the need to take me seriously).
IanPolaris wrote...
Robosexual wrote...
The Retake movement is Facebook, and linked on Wikipedia numerous times, so saying it's just forum goers would probably be doing it a bit of a disservice, not that I ever thought I'd say that for the Retake movement.
The point is that there is more than enough data to make a reasonable inference that most people still do not in fact like the endings (to varying degrees). It is perfectly valid to project sample results from smaller populations onto bigger ones as long as the smaller sample is reasonable representative of the larger population. This is how polling works.
Given that multiple polls were done, with varying methedologies, and they all got about the same result leads me to conclude that their samples were in fact reasonable representatative and therefore the results should be taken as largely accurate.
-Polaris
Modifié par Robosexual, 03 mars 2013 - 12:12 .
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