79 réponses à ce sujet

[galesong1234]

ps: I wonder how many here on this forum remember when we used to have to use graph paper to map our travels because there was no "auto maping" feature.
[/quote]

Back in the day....

D&D was our world. Nothing like painting miniatures. Rolling our stats for our PCs. Graphing our quests. And best of all staying up all night , having a few brews and playing D&D with your fellow gamers and friends. Those were actually the good old days. It required imagination.

For the record. I love this game. I am completely straight and happily married. I might be a tad obcessed with Alistair. So if that makes me hardcore, than so be it.

[Xandurpein]

Blakes 7 wrote...

Why must everything doable be rendered cinematically? It is a game after all. Gathering rumours doesn't have to mean extensive cutscenes etc but could be rendered quite simply if primitively. But it would be there.

Thats true Xanderphein, roleplaying doesn't mean you will always convince a character but I was playing a persuasive sort; even kotor 2 had limits on how much you could convince so I'll give you that

I'm wondering now if extensive portions of the dragon age vision were chiselled away which would explain the lothering reputation then not carrying forward

There are different forms of immersion. It is obvious that Bioware puts hight quality cinematic feeling over catering to every possible way a hardcore pnp RPG player may want to try to do. Personally I am happy with the choice they made. It's a good balance between choices and quality of conversations to me and I hope they stick to it. But of course you are free to hope for different things.

Seriously, how many computer roleplaying games do you know that have as many varied endings as Dragon Age has?

[Archonsg]

Xandurpein wrote...
The big problem with having the game allow you to act out any anti-social impulse you might get, is that it will break the game and make it unwinnable. If you for example allow players to do things that sets them on a path to become outlaws, then the plot breaks down and you can't win the Landsmeet or gain any allies. I suppose you could have fun robbing people in the back-allies of Denerim for a few days until the Darkspawn horde obliterated Ferelden, but that is a different game. Nor am I willing to wait two more years for DA:O and pay more for all the voice acting needed to pull it off.

Ya, you are right. As I said in an earlier post, these kinda things can only happen, if EA would allow Bioware more time AND $$ to do everything they want to do. Which would be a miracle considering that RPGs aren't exactly the "hot" game IPs that publishers want. The story and do-ability part as playing an outlaw *could* be done but time, money and effort put into making the game that way would probably not worth the sales for the title. I don't know how much DA:O made but I am pretty sure its not anywhere near compareable to that of say Call of Duty's first day sale of 4.7millon copies and about $310 million in sales. If they did they would have had the figures out in huge Blood dragon red text no? If only it was so though, then Bioware would have been able to say  to EA, people want this...give us more time and money and you'll make good on your investment.

I am not saying that DA:O wasn't a success, I am pretty sure it is, but just how much so, we don't know exactly as the numbers aren't "official" or easily found.

Sadly, making a game is still just business, and thus untill the day that RPGs become *the* must have IP (Bioware is at least on a roll here with DA and ME 2 coming up) EA will not give them unlimited money and time to make that "perfect" game.
Well maybe Star Wars : The Old Republic.... we'll see. 

Modifié par Archonsg, 12 janvier 2010 - 12:08 .

[Blakes 7]

For the record I don't want hardcore I want mechanics that make sense and a suspension of belief by not having things pointed out to me unnecessarily. Although I expect people will disagree where that line should be - fair enough.



Oh and I do remember mapping out the desert in kings quest 5; back when games were all stories and puzzles; and I miss it

[Xandurpein]

galesong1234 wrote...

For the record. I love this game. I am completely straight and happily married. I might be a tad obcessed with Alistair. So if that makes me hardcore, than so be it.

That is so true. You aren't a hardcore Bioware RPG player until you feel guilty towards your husband/wife/significant other because of your crush on an imaginary digital character.

[KnightofPhoenix]

By presenting itself as the legacy of Baldur gate, I believe Dragon Age is mostly aimed at old school RPG fanatics or "hardcores". Though both the violence trailer and the Urn of sacred ashes clearly wanted the game to look more mainstream.

In contrast, Mass Effecte 2 is being targetted at shooter fans and those who play RPGs for the story and not game mechanics.

[phordicus]

ComTrav wrote...

And if you're unhappy with what you think of as design concessions to the mainstream, bear in mind that a highly successful RPG (like DAO) opens the doors for lots more RPGs, some of which may be more to your taste. I grew up in a time when "everyone knew" there was no market in the United States for RPGs (you and me, Final Fantasy/Dragon Warrior!)

this is my hope.

[Xandurpein]

Archonsg wrote...

Sadly, making a game is still just business, and thus untill the day that RPGs become *the* must have IP (Bioware is at least on a roll here with DA and ME 2 coming up) EA will not give them unlimited money and time to make that "perfect" game.

Well, to be honest I am happy making computer RPG is big business. If it was just a hobby, then there is no way they could afford to make a production like Dragon Age. Just saying you could se it differently...

[Blakes 7]

KnightofPhoenix that is the proverbial nail on the head. If the game wasn't intended to be like baldurs gate it shouldn't of been marketed as such. Still didn't turn out too bad even though. I still remember asking questions on the old dragon age forums concerning how alive the cities would be and if we could enter peoples homes and was reassured. Looks like I was fed a line - thats what bites the most

[wwwwowwww]

Blakes 7 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix that is the proverbial nail on the head. If the game wasn't intended to be like baldurs gate it shouldn't of been marketed as such. Still didn't turn out too bad even though. I still remember asking questions on the old dragon age forums concerning how alive the cities would be and if we could enter peoples homes and was reassured. Looks like I was fed a line - thats what bites the most

Maybe not, at the time it may have been true, but plans change and things are cut. That's just how it is. DG stated in another thread that there were quite a few things that had to be cut/removed from the game due to budget constraints and timelines.
So at the time you were told that they may have had every intention of doing it

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yes sadly the cities and towns were mostly dead and empty. But I have never played Bladurs gate, so I can't compare.

[Archonsg]

Xandurpein wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

For the record. I love this game. I am completely straight and happily married. I might be a tad obcessed with Alistair. So if that makes me hardcore, than so be it.

That is so true. You aren't a hardcore Bioware RPG player until you feel guilty towards your husband/wife/significant other because of your crush on an imaginary digital character.

But ....but what if your wife / significant other is also a CRPG fan and is as totally immersed with Alistair as I am with Lelianna that the both of you don't feel any guilt at all.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Archonsg wrote...
But ....but what if your wife / significant other is also a CRPG fan and is as totally immersed with Alistair as I am with Lelianna that the both of you don't feel any guilt at all.

That's the secret to a happy married life.

[MatronAdena]

galesong1234 wrote...



Back in the day....

D&D was our world. Nothing like painting miniatures.

nothing was greater than going out and getting 5, or 6 packs of the newest additions to the Ral-Partha miniatures

My cousins and I use to play battle systems, and had " selected types" mine being pretty much thieves, or any human armies " including lord harcort, and his charge, and even some hero's of the lance, etc...even found some old old miniatures from Thieves world!

we had massive armies, made little towns, or forts, would play outside to " simulate" a real world and to give bonuses for thieves, or rangers etc....


Those indeed were the days...


DAMN YOU TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Modifié par MatronAdena, 12 janvier 2010 - 01:09 .

[Archonsg]

MatronAdena wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...



Back in the day....

D&D was our world. Nothing like painting miniatures.

nothing was greater than going out and getting 5, or 6 packs of the newest additions to the Ral-Partha miniatures

My cousins and I use to play battle systems, and had " selected types" mine being pretty much thieves, or any human armies " including lord harcort, and his charge, and even some hero's of the lance, etc...even found some old old miniatures from Thieves world!

we had massive armies, made little towns, or forts, would play outside to " simulate" a real world and to give bonuses for thieves, or rangers etc....


Those indeed were the days...


DAMN YOU TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow. That's dedication. All we had when I DMed the PnP games we used to play was my voice and our imagination. My group's budget goes into pizza and drinks. Good times.

[AdorableAnarchist]

I consider myself pretty old school -- and not just because I have to visit my hair stylist every so often to keep from looking like Wynne. I demand a good story. Combat, for me, is tedious. I don't like to mash buttons, try to figure out how to bend my fingers backwards into the shape of a letter "Q" just to get a new move, etc. I want to be surprised by plot twists, amused by dialogue, and become emotionally attached to the characters around mine.



I can handle the board side quests because they aren't the typical "step and fetch" kind of quests thjat used to make me want to spork my own eyes out when I played WoW. There's more of a story to them and they can be related to the game more.



As an adult, I love the darker, more edgier side to the game as well. The City Elf origin storyline was fantastic and had me up in arms. I loved the intrigue of the Royal Dwarf storyline and am contemplating ways to play it out form my character's viewpoint when I SHOULD be working. LOL But, it's keeping me from hurting anyone today during a stressful time, so I consider it a win win.



And I guess I'm a hardcore Bioware fan too... I had a crush on Alenko in ME1 and a couple of crushes in DA:O... It's ok, because Hubby has crushes too -- definitely the secret to a good marriage. The couple that games together stays together. LOL

[Archonsg]

AdorableAnarchist wrote...
It's ok, because Hubby has crushes too -- definitely the secret to a good marriage. The couple that games together stays together. LOL

You know you have made the right choice when your significant other tells you "Okies, just remember to switch the lights off in the morning." When you tell her "In a while dear....." when she asks if you are coming to bed.

Modifié par Archonsg, 12 janvier 2010 - 01:29 .

[AdorableAnarchist]

Archonsg wrote...

AdorableAnarchist wrote...
It's ok, because Hubby has crushes too -- definitely the secret to a good marriage. The couple that games together stays together. LOL

You know you have made the right choice when your significant other tells you "Okies, just remember to switch the lights off in the morning." When you tell her "In a while dear....." when she asks if you are coming to bed.

Or when they don't heckle you TOO much for gaming until 3AM and then do laundry while you nap to recover...

[MatronAdena]

Archonsg wrote...

MatronAdena wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...



Back in the day....

D&D was our world. Nothing like painting miniatures.

nothing was greater than going out and getting 5, or 6 packs of the newest additions to the Ral-Partha miniatures

My cousins and I use to play battle systems, and had " selected types" mine being pretty much thieves, or any human armies " including lord harcort, and his charge, and even some hero's of the lance, etc...even found some old old miniatures from Thieves world!

we had massive armies, made little towns, or forts, would play outside to " simulate" a real world and to give bonuses for thieves, or rangers etc....


Those indeed were the days...


DAMN YOU TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow. That's dedication. All we had when I DMed the PnP games we used to play was my voice and our imagination. My group's budget goes into pizza and drinks. Good times.

yeah, I loved good ol PnP...Get me a beer, and lets see how many times I can go through Parinoia before it's done...

Now the miniature battles were a blast, I miss battle system...It lacked the RP side of it, but was fun. I admit, I had more fun just painting them

[Kalfear]

galesong1234 wrote...




ps: I wonder how many here on this forum remember when we used to have to use graph paper to map our travels because there was no "auto maping" feature.

Back in the day....

D&D was our world. Nothing like painting miniatures. Rolling our stats for our PCs. Graphing our quests. And best of all staying up all night , having a few brews and playing D&D with your fellow gamers and friends. Those were actually the good old days. It required imagination.

For the record. I love this game. I am completely straight and happily married. I might be a tad obcessed with Alistair. So if that makes me hardcore, than so be it.

Mememememememememe hehehe

15x15 map for the win

Modifié par Kalfear, 12 janvier 2010 - 07:42 .

[Realmzmaster]

Everybody has their idea of what should be in a CRPG. And your idea will not match mine. What about the future of CRPGs? If Bioware only made CPRGs for the hardcore where would new fans come from? You have to make games that hook a new audience while keeping the old audience somewhat happy. Yes if EA gave Bioware more money and more time Bioware could make the perfect CRPG in about ten years. And we would still say it is missing something.
DA took five years to produce which is why some of the graphics are dated.
The bottom line is that it is a business. A business must make money. Games must come out in a timely fashion otherwise the audience disappears.
I sure Bioware had the intention to make DA the BG spiritual successor, but time and money precluded that attempt. But it does come pretty close.
I know what hardcore CRPG is. I have played all the SSI Gold Box games , Alternate Reality, Ultima 1-9. I have no wish to go back to those times. It was fun then, but time has changed my attention span and outlook. DA has just the right mix for me.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 12 janvier 2010 - 08:31 .

[galesong1234]

Xandurpein wrote...

galesong1234 wrote...

For the record. I love this game. I am completely straight and happily married. I might be a tad obcessed with Alistair. So if that makes me hardcore, than so be it.

That is so true. You aren't a hardcore Bioware RPG player until you feel guilty towards your husband/wife/significant other because of your crush on an imaginary digital character.

Well, officialy hit hardcore. Husband is worried that he is competing with Alistair. Sometimes the fantasy is better than the reality. Don't have the heart to tell him that he is.

[errant_knight]

wwwwowwww wrote...

Blakes 7 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix that is the proverbial nail on the head. If the game wasn't intended to be like baldurs gate it shouldn't of been marketed as such. Still didn't turn out too bad even though. I still remember asking questions on the old dragon age forums concerning how alive the cities would be and if we could enter peoples homes and was reassured. Looks like I was fed a line - thats what bites the most

Maybe not, at the time it may have been true, but plans change and things are cut. That's just how it is. DG stated in another thread that there were quite a few things that had to be cut/removed from the game due to budget constraints and timelines.
So at the time you were told that they may have had every intention of doing it

I have my fingers crossed that at least some of those things make it in as DLC.

[Xandurpein]

Spiritual successor or not. Dragon Age is a so much better game than BG2 in many ways to me, and I loved BG2.

[robertthebard]

I guess I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around a few terms:



Hardcore: To me, this is a kind of gamer, not a game. The game is what you make it when you play, and hardcore was something I saw thrown around on MMO forums discussing player types, not the games themselves.



Casual: Really just see above. This is the person that plays an hour here and there, to me. The game has no affect on whether one is hardcore or casual, unless you get so buried in it that you play for 10 hours a day.



I also don't understand the problem with the quest boards. I used a similar set up in my NWN's 1 module, since new players wouldn't know where to look for quests. I thought it was a good idea then, and that it was well implemented here.