79 réponses à ce sujet

[Xandurpein]

I agree that"hardcore" really refers to a gamer rather than a game, it's usually meant to suggest that that you belong to some exclusive elite that somehow are more select than the "casual" masses. A "hardcore" game is means a game that only hardcore gamers would appreciate. Discussions like this often pops up when people belonging to a group discover to their horror that their favorite pastime/music/hobby have become generally popular and they are no longer exclusive.

/Edit. Even the use "Core audience" is somewhat misleading I think. To me it suggests that there is an select group that matters more than the rest who payed as much as the rest to enjoy game.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 13 janvier 2010 - 09:11 .

[Blakes 7]

In media studies terminlogy core audience is the audience that is particularly sought after - particularly relevant for tv and movies. You know 19-30 yr olds who like pop music etc

I guess I would prefer a less 'hold my hand' experience but I wouldn't call that wanting hardcore features. Just less led around and more exploration; I don't know some people consider that hardcore or that it then has to be an oblivion clone to do that; personally I don't believe that

My use of the terms hardcore and casual relates to the type of audience that would appreciate certain features. Yes those terms generalise the audience too much but that wasn't really the point I was trying to make - not that I'm terribly fussed.

Rather I was wondering what direction dragon age is likely to go in the future "feature set wise". Possibly in the future this may mean more options role playing wise (probably about the same) but how they are implemented is also important to me at least.

Modifié par Blakes 7, 13 janvier 2010 - 09:45 .

[Xandurpein]

Bioware's games have always been a balance between Storytelling and exploration. Freedom of movement and exploration will often tend to increase the resources required to make good storytelling exponentially. The more optional ways there is to solve a number of questions, the more resources they need to put into optional alternate storytelling elements (voice acting for all "what if" scenarios).

I think that so far Bioware tries to find a mix of these, but if they have to compromise they rather compromise on freedom to ensure that the storytelling elements are high class, and I think that it is those who value storytelling over freedom who are the "core audience" for them. I have no idea how that translates into age/gender/income groups, but then again I'm not into marketing so how would I know.

/Edit. What I mean is that, if they had a vision of a Denerim with more people and ability to open any house in Denerim, but realized they needed to rein in the game to meet the deadline, then they would rather cut back on the free exploration (entering houses in Denerim) than on voice-acting and story, and I for one think they made the right choice.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 13 janvier 2010 - 09:58 .

[Beren082]

Yeah, it could have been better, but most people who have played it are going through twice, even three times more. I'm on my 4th playthrough.

I've actually seen everything mentioned in this thread, spread out among a hundred different games. none had every trait melded together in one glorious game. In Freelancer you have a reputation that affects how people treat you, in Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines you have the subtle clues that you have to find, In Fable you could affect almost anything, None of those have the depth of story or emotional attachments that DA:O offered (Maybe VTM:B, but only because it had an established story to work off of).

Personally, I would love an RPG to come out where your choices actually matter, where you decide how events unfold instead of simply reacting to them, where your actions throughout the game (and not just at key points) affect the ultimate outcome. I'd also like combat to be a bit more fluid then queuing actions and watching them happen but still retain the effects that different armor, weapons, skills, upgrades, attributes, etc. have on the battle. I'd also like to see, in that same RPG, the ability to play out battle on a massive scale, with armies, and siege equipment, troop deployment, front lines and flanking maneuvers, where you're not only the biggest badass on the field, but you're also the one giving orders. all this with a stable economic system, where you can make money through trade, legal or otherwise, where your character could make a bunch of money, have their own place, and deck it out in an awesome way (or even a defensive or practical way). or you could take them to a Nar Shadda/ Las Vegas/ Antiva type place, and blow it all on drugs, hookers, and gambling, which would in turn affect your character's health. In this game, you would have the choice of either jumping from one major point to another, or actually traveling there by foot/horse/car/spaceship. and if you chose to travel, you would indeed find many interesting things, and many that want to kill you.

but, I doubt I'll ever get that, at least not while I abide on this plain of existence, so I will enjoy what I have, and Dragon Age is quite enjoyable.

On a side note: I used to play the Fantasy Trip, and G.U.R.P.S. with my parents, and I remember the hours spent painting the miniatures, hammering out their attributes and backstories, and the weeks worth of game play it yielded, and it was freaking awesome. I had a barbarian, named Dürk, who grew up on a potato farm in the badlands. When I told my dad what I wanted to name him, he added the ümlaut to be funny. The miniature I had (i think I still have it somewhere, buried amongst all our crap) was this huge, Arnold type guy, with a loincloth and two massive swords. at the time, I was surprised when all the mages wanted to throw fireballs at me. haha

Modifié par Beren082, 13 janvier 2010 - 10:29 .

[bl00dsh0t]

I think what is easy to miss as a hardcore player is the realities of economics. There were many moments where I, despite not being a hardcore rpg fan, felt like choices were missing or that the enemy ai was sorely lacking at time. But as someone with a background in economics and programming I completely understand why some things have to get cut for the hardcore while the casual gamers get marketed to. But there is hope since they have for DAO had to spend time developing the engine and the toolset before actually making the game. This now leaves them with the possebility of taking detail to a higher level in for instance the expansion or dlc's as well as the inevitable sequell. But expecting DAO to become an ultima level game in terms of crpg mechanics and choice is almost impossible due to the sheer amount of effort that has to go into every dialogue and every area explorable in the game.



In older games entering someone's house to rob them would have been a room with 4 walls, an npc or two and some text bubbles. Today its 1000's of polygons, mb's of texture and hours of voicacting work that has to go into this kind of sidequests and it is just not worth it for 95% of the gamers that wouldn't even take advantage of the ability to do so for moral reasons.



But I think dragon age is a reason for rpg players like yourself to rejoice since it brings a new group of rpg players into the picture, of which many will desire the options you are yearning for. This is a welcome trend in todays singstar and rockband world where low cost and high revenue is the name of the game and only the casual get a kick out of it. But on the upside the nr. of households with xboxes, ps3's and pc's cabable of gaming goes up and we have the opportunity to grow as a gaming society.



What is important is that crpg players like you voice your desires in a meaningfull manner without much insulting all that do not think like you, which you have managed to avoid in most part Then you can bring more to your side and the pressure on the developers to deliver higher immersion rpg's will increase. Just don't expect the crpg glory days you describe to fully return, D&D will sadly remain the only way to truly "live" in a fictional world.



That being said, pardon the rant, I am not an rpg player and was bribed into trying dragon age by my roomate who had bought it but realized that his studies would suffer too much if he began playing it and lent it to me. 400 hours and 8 playthroughs later I'm a happy little gamer enjoying the spoils of a new genre I though of as boring before and am yearning for more immersion, more choices and most of all more morrigan