945 réponses à ce sujet

[Wishpig]

Drasill wrote...

Where do you live? The last movie ticket I bought was $6.50 and the last greeting card I bought was $0.77.

Holy crap where do YOU LIVE? Movie tickets cost 10-11 bucks where I'm from... Throw in a candy and a soda and going to the movie suddenly costs 20 bucks.

[steelfire_dragon]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think it's a huge joke for Bioware to charge outrageous amounts of money for so little content. All of them can be finished in less than an hour and their main purpose is not to advance the story in a meaningful way, but to give player extra items. I can admit that Shale was moderately interesting - but then again they're planning on charging $15 for it, which is ridiculous. Don't get me started on RtO - they are basically recycling old stuff and charging for it. Oh wow, it has some new items. How amazing.

I think if the DLC's were free, it would really show commitment and dedication of Bioware to the community and encourage more people to buy this game. I think they could take a page out of Blizzard's book (free battle.net) on how to treat the fans of their game.

I think you should do your job for free, then come back here, and re think this,
till then, I curse(wish) you to have a nice day, and if you dont, its your own fault

[Sylvius the Mad]

outlaworacle wrote...

Everything should be free.

And then no one will make anything because there's no incentive for them to do so.  Congratulations, you just destroyed civilization.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 12 janvier 2010 - 11:03 .

[Drasill]

All developers charge for DLC look at Valve, Blizzard, CD Projekt... oh wait....

[Magic Zarim]

Damn how could I forget Valve



HL:EP3 where are you lol

[Deiser]

Drasill wrote...

All developers charge for DLC look at Valve, Blizzard, CD Projekt... oh wait....

Valve adds DLC far less than this, and are more updates than pure DLC. Team Fortress 2 feels quite different now yes, but only after more than a year of updates.

Blizzard charges you 15 dollars a month, so additional content is not free.

CD Projekt's DLC was to fix what was broken in the Witcher, with a few irrelevant-to-main-game-stories thrown in. It's more a massive patch than DLC in the sense of how we're discussing it here.

So yeah, none of those examples actually are good comparisons to Bioware's methods. Valve comes close, but as I said the updates that add content are far less often and are more often tweaks to the current game than new stuff.

A better example for similar type of DLC is Bethesda.... which in this case also charges for DLC.

[Drasill]

Deiser wrote...

Drasill wrote...

All developers charge for DLC look at Valve, Blizzard, CD Projekt... oh wait....

Valve adds DLC far less than this, and are more updates than pure DLC. Team Fortress 2 feels quite different now yes, but only after more than a year of updates.

Blizzard charges you 15 dollars a month, so additional content is not free.

CD Projekt's DLC was to fix what was broken in the Witcher, with a few irrelevant-to-main-game-stories thrown in. It's more a massive patch than DLC in the sense of how we're discussing it here.

So yeah, none of those examples actually are good comparisons to Bioware's methods. Valve comes close, but as I said the updates that add content are far less often and are more often tweaks to the current game than new stuff.

A better example for similar type of DLC is Bethesda.... which in this case also charges for DLC.

But what CD Projekt added is larger than all the Dragon Age DLCs combined. And Blizzard charges for subscriptions not the extra content they add.

[ArathWoeeye]

@OP

Downloadable Content is download-able content and as you mentioned, it does not "progress the storyline" thus it's not mandatory or anything. You are able to download it but you are not obliged to.



You see something in a market and you find it not worth the price. What do you do? You don't buy it. You don't go around saying it should be free. Marketing and sales does not work that way.



Besides, saying that DLCs only offer items is just shallow. I am happy I paid for Warden's Keep. And the last thing I thought about it was the items I got. What I see in the expansion is an extra adventure. A short story, some fighting to do and some added lore. Oh yes, and items drop/found.

It's an RPG, not an MMORPG. It's not a game where you do everything, grind up and compete with others. It's a story-telling adventure. You have proven that you missed the point of this game and the vision of the developers (which has been pretty much the same from good ol' days).



And comparing to Blizzard is plain senseless. Different companies, different genres (blizz never released an RPG- no, diablo is not an rpg in the sense DAO is) They are completely different.

[addiction21]

Deiser wrote...

Drasill wrote...

All developers charge for DLC look at Valve, Blizzard, CD Projekt... oh wait....

Valve adds DLC far less than this, and are more updates than pure DLC. Team Fortress 2 feels quite different now yes, but only after more than a year of updates.

Blizzard charges you 15 dollars a month, so additional content is not free.

CD Projekt's DLC was to fix what was broken in the Witcher, with a few irrelevant-to-main-game-stories thrown in. It's more a massive patch than DLC in the sense of how we're discussing it here.

So yeah, none of those examples actually are good comparisons to Bioware's methods. Valve comes close, but as I said the updates that add content are far less often and are more often tweaks to the current game than new stuff.

A better example for similar type of DLC is Bethesda.... which in this case also charges for DLC.

Prepare to be told you are wrong...

[JackDresden]

I don't agree DLC should be free, but I do think a lot of it being produced at the moment is rather poor value in terms of quantity, quality. I don't think they should lower the price though, just think about keeping the same price point and making future content a little more meaty.



I think both Quantity and Quality play into value for money.



Ultimatley though we all have to choose for ourselves to buy or not buy any DLC they produce.

[Magic Zarim]

[quote]Deiser wrote...

[quote]Drasill wrote...

All developers charge for DLC look at Valve, Blizzard, CD Projekt... oh wait....[/quote]

Valve adds DLC far less than this, and are more updates than pure DLC. Team Fortress 2 feels quite different now yes, but only after more than a year of updates.

Blizzard charges you 15 dollars a month, so additional content is not free.[/quote]

The $15 technically grants you access to the service. The $15 nor the EULA  entitle you to new content. You get the content because they want to give players reason to keep playing over extended periods of time. Blizzard could chose to net more cash by not expending extraordinarily to development resources. They could skimp on updates. They could skimp on quality. Reap and don't sow. If they did that, they wouldn't be where they are now. Instead, Blizzard does what it's know for - deliver outstanding (if you're into it) quality and lots of it.

[quote]CD Projekt's DLC was to fix what was broken in the Witcher, with a few irrelevant-to-main-game-stories thrown in. It's more a massive patch than DLC in the sense of how we're discussing it here.[/quote]The few  irrelevant-to-main-game-stories are worth about 10 - 15 hours of play.



[quote]So yeah, none of those examples actually are good comparisons to Bioware's methods. Valve comes close, but as I said the updates that add content are far less often and are more often tweaks to the current game than new stuff.[/quote]Blizzard's singleplayer games continue to receive content updates. Games that have been in use of a decade. No, not the franchise.. the GAME. Starcraft, Diablo, Diablo II to name the notable ones. Name me other non-mmo type games that have been played for a decade. These games are still being sold today in large quantities, copies are widely available still. It's a product that's been making Blizzard money for 10 years. It's a perfectly fine comparisson.

The thing with DLC is, where does one draw the border? It's almost as crazy as RMT (Real Money Transfer) for a single player game. You know, games where you can buy in-game items for real money from a shopping list (while play is free). A yes, I want that dagger for $1,50. Might as well buy beer for $0,50 as that consumable heals for more than regular health potions.

Patch..Expansion.. DLC..  RMT ah well. EA is doing a big experiment here, that I can tell. Will you guys make them succeed or fail...



 case also charges for DLC.

[/quote]

Modifié par Magic Zarim, 12 janvier 2010 - 10:48 .

[FlintlockJazz]

archonsod wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
 Therefore it is not the length but the quality of the experience and the cost to provide said experience that you need to consider.

No, no I don't. You see, I don't give a damn whether the farmer who grew the hops or the barmaid get paid, and whether they do or don't in now way alters my enjoyment of the beer, which is what I am actually drinking for, not some bizzarre attempt at wealth redistribution.
 I'm a consumer, not an economist. It makes little difference to me where the beer comes from or how it gets to the pub, all I'm interested in is how much I'm going to enjoy it and whether it's going to cost me a fair price for that enjoyment. If it doesn't, I won't buy the beer or I'll go to a different pub which does offer a pint at a cost I consider worth while for the enjoyment it gives me.

 The same applies to DLC. Why the hell do I care if Bioware's employees get paid or not, or whether it costs them hundreds in server hosting costs or the like? I'm buying a product, not shares in their company. If I like the game / DLC / Amusing novelty hat and I find the price acceptable based on my anticipation of that enjoyment then they get my money. If not, they don't. Simple as that.

In short, while it may be worth it according to the method of measurement you use, it is not necessarily worth it according to the measurement of worth other people use

 I was responding to someone claiming the DLC was not worth it, which I disagree with. I explained my method of determining value. At no point did I suggest it was the only means of doing so, or that anyone else should adopt it. In fact, I don't actually care whether you consider it worthwhile or not. I do however think that a blanket statement of "it's not worth it" be quantified with some form of reasoning rather than spouted out as if it was some objective fact. The idea of a forum is to discuss, not be a substitute for a poll system.

First off, I do not believe it should be free, I was merely pointing out that there is more to it than length of time, it's the experience as a whole and the quality of said experience. 

You may not see, but we both agree that we want what we want at a fair
price right?  That's the point, if someone is selling you beer topped
up with ****** you wouldn't want to pay as much for it as for one that
isn't.

Comparing coffee or beer and it's length of time is a bad example, because while you may only judge by length the person you are telling it to obviously does not, otherwise they would not be disagreeing with you in the first place.  I see that example being pulled out time and time again and I'm sorry to say it proves nothing except that I can be wound up by it enough to make inane posts.  Something could only last ten minutes but be worth a £10000 because it's of such a quality that it is worth it, while something else could last a thousand years but only be worth 1p (some governments seem to operate that level of value towards their citizens' lives...). 

There's more but I'm tired and going to bed, and really need to keep away from conversations like this.

[ozenglish]

So to the author of this thread, what you are saying, is that when you buy a car, you want free gas for it. when you buy a fridge, you want free food with it. When you buy a house, you want all the furniture and essentials. When you buy your football tickets, you want food, beer, and the best seat in the house, included with it?



Wow, I want to live in not going to happen ever land.

[Zakath12]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think it's a huge joke for Bioware to charge outrageous amounts of money for so little content. All of them can be finished in less than an hour and their main purpose is not to advance the story in a meaningful way, but to give player extra items. I can admit that Shale was moderately interesting - but then again they're planning on charging $15 for it, which is ridiculous. Don't get me started on RtO - they are basically recycling old stuff and charging for it. Oh wow, it has some new items. How amazing.

I think if the DLC's were free, it would really show commitment and dedication of Bioware to the community and encourage more people to buy this game. I think they could take a page out of Blizzard's book (free battle.net) on how to treat the fans of their game.

Fuel should be free. I bought my damn car.

[ModForFun]

wowpwnslol wrote...

So far nobody can come up with a reasonable argument as to why $5-10 for 40 minutes of recycled content or features that should have been included as quality of life is fair. It seems that people are simply content to kiss Bio's feet and accuse anyone who seeing through their money milking scheme of trolling.

 
Start modding on your own, you will discover that it is not easy, even the simpilist of mods can go wrong and require weeks of bug testing to polish it up enough for release.

If you decide to actually create your own custom content, you will need to first learn how to create a mesh, then you will need to learn how to texture that mesh. There could take you a few weeks to a few months depending on how fast you learn.

It dosnt end there however, since you now have a mesh and texture, you need to learn how to scale it to size, there goes a few more weeks or months what ever the case may be and when you finish up with that you need to learn how to wieght the model and assign it some animations taking yet more time to learn.

The best part about it all is spending 4 grand on programs like 3DSmax so you can get results in the models quality that are equal to or greater then Biowares.

Yeah you can use freeware programs if you are in the know how of programming and are capable of creating your own plugins to use with gimp and blender, but other then that you are stuck with 3DSmax and photoshop or maya and photoshop.

So considering that Bioware is not a charity and they do not spend 6 years in developing a game and its content to give away for free to some spoiled brat that thinks DLC should be free I think the pricing is justified, after all no one puts a gun to my head your head or anyones head and says buy it.

[Dee-Jay]

DLAN_Immortality wrote...

ZZZZ

Okay, you know Bioware is being really nice by making DLCs right? Because they could do what everybody else does, which is release the game and release bug fixing patches and forget about everything else.

Why do we always want MOAR and MOAR ? >:-[ You don't really need to buy them, you know. Just play the vanilla game and have fun.

You do know Bioware isn't a charity.

DLC has a huge Return on Investment, comapred to anything else. Just look at all the other games offering DLC and you get the idea.

DLC is the new blessing for the games company.

-DAO cost 50 Euros and took somewhere around 50 developers 4 years to create. Of those 50 Euros, costs for production, marketing etc. need to be deducted.
-Now toss in DLC. It might take 10 developers 2 months to make if they start from scratch, if it wasn't content they had ingame before hand anyway. Each DLC gives the Devs 5-7 Euros.

You do the maths!

DLC is a great way for a developer and a publisher to print money. In no way is the value per dollar comparable with the original game.

Until this DLC trend arose, a company would have fixed the most common bugs and then saved the accumalted content for an expansion pack.

Buying DLC is like buying an expansion pack for 70 dollars. Noone in their right mind would do it.

Now I dont blame Bioware for doing this, they just want to make good money with good games. I presume they were encouraged by EA to push for DLC as it has such an excellent RoI.

[RockGnasher]

I am still miffed by the fact that the dlc that was advertised to be free with the game that I bought does not work while my computer is not plugged into the internet. Shouldn't it have said that it would not work without internet?



WoW will be the high watermark of gaming for aeons, decades even.



I may have more respect for DAO if the next patch manages to fix anything. It seems like the bugs make up half the challenge of the game.

[MadMaligor]

Dragon Age is a quality product, and most if not all of the DLC is quality product.

The problem is not that they are charging for it, the problem is what they are charging for it.  As mentioned above me quantity and quality are two different things and both play a part in product value.

For the money, the DLC is not a good value.  This thread and the countless others like it reinforce that opinion, and yes its just opinion.  What is not opinion, is that the statistical weight of countless opinions becomes something alot more tangible and meaningful to companies, it becomes fact.

I purchased DLC with my heart when the game first came out, because I didn't want to miss out on anything.  Just like every now and then I say "screw it" and buy a soda and popcorn at the movies for the experience.

And just like the movies...I knew I was getting ripped off.  I just didn't care because I had the money to spend, and wanted something other than actual value for my dollar.

Companies understand the habits of bad consumers and capitalize on emotion and desire.

I am a bad consumer at times, I admit it.

But just because I purchased the DLC, does not make it worth the money I spent, and just because someone says to others or tells themselves it was worth it, does not make it true either.

People make purchases for all kinds of reasons, but perception is almost always the deciding factor.  Actual value is rarely a consideration.

[Sloth Of Doom]

RockGnasher wrote...

I am still miffed by the fact that the dlc that was advertised to be free with the game that I bought does not work while my computer is not plugged into the internet. Shouldn't it have said that it would not work without internet?

WoW will be the high watermark of gaming for aeons, decades even.

I may have more respect for DAO if the next patch manages to fix anything. It seems like the bugs make up half the challenge of the game.

Turn your game to 'logged out' and it will work fine.  *sigh*

[Magic Zarim]

...I knew I was getting ripped off.

I hate that feeling

[CaioIcy]

I don't agree with OP, but they should at least do something about people releasing RtO as torrent. Leaksleaksleaks

[ozenglish]

Dee-Jay wrote...

DLAN_Immortality wrote...

ZZZZ

Okay, you know Bioware is being really nice by making DLCs right? Because they could do what everybody else does, which is release the game and release bug fixing patches and forget about everything else.

Why do we always want MOAR and MOAR ? >:-[ You don't really need to buy them, you know. Just play the vanilla game and have fun.

You do know Bioware isn't a charity.

DLC has a huge Return on Investment, comapred to anything else. Just look at all the other games offering DLC and you get the idea.

DLC is the new blessing for the games company.

-DAO cost 50 Euros and took somewhere around 50 developers 4 years to create. Of those 50 Euros, costs for production, marketing etc. need to be deducted.
-Now toss in DLC. It might take 10 developers 2 months to make if they start from scratch, if it wasn't content they had ingame before hand anyway. Each DLC gives the Devs 5-7 Euros.

You do the maths!

DLC is a great way for a developer and a publisher to print money. In no way is the value per dollar comparable with the original game.

Until this DLC trend arose, a company would have fixed the most common bugs and then saved the accumalted content for an expansion pack.

Buying DLC is like buying an expansion pack for 70 dollars. Noone in their right mind would do it.

Now I dont blame Bioware for doing this, they just want to make good money with good games. I presume they were encouraged by EA to push for DLC as it has such an excellent RoI.

Finally, an impressive and logical argument. Kudos to you for doing such.

[jak d ripr]

This is how i rate whether dlc should be priced or not, did i feel like the original game gave me bang for my proverbial buck? Well i haven't finished dragon age yet but i have enjoyed every step so far and i have heard the game is long as loaded to the brim with content.



Besides you realize people work to make this dlc right? It actually makes me wonder the kind of person you are that you want people to work hard to make a product and you want it for free.

[addiction21]

So I just wanted to ask. Those that think they should charge something but the current prices are too high, what price range do you think they should be charging for DLC's?

[Bibdy]

jak d ripr wrote...

This is how i rate whether dlc should be priced or not, did i feel like the original game gave me bang for my proverbial buck? Well i haven't finished dragon age yet but i have enjoyed every step so far and i have heard the game is long as loaded to the brim with content.

Besides you realize people work to make this dlc right? It actually makes me wonder the kind of person you are that you want people to work hard to make a product and you want it for free.

Obviously these people are on welfare, hence the sense of entitlement.