945 réponses à ce sujet

[Timurlane]

Here's an article featuring Eric Brown of EA Games detailing to potential investors just how much money they were netting from DLC up until that point. Note that it is from November and sales would be significantly higher now, particularly with the huge number of people who bought BioWare points for RtO who haven't even gotten the content.



http://uk.gamespot.c...ws/6239818.html

[SheffSteel]

Noticed in the above link:

EA is also selling a handful of premium Dragon Age themes for 240 Microsoft points ($3) each on the Xbox Live Marketplace.

If you want to discuss whether DLC represents value for money, there is something to compare it to.

[MoobooMagoo]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Finiffa wrote...

I guess the OP works for free cuz his boss is such a nice guy.....

^^^^
This

@op: you're a troll, simply put, and clueless at it. 
3.49 Euros (the price of RTO) is the price of 4 cups of coffee at an average bar. I'd say that the value of 1.5 hours of gameplay (multiplied by this game's awesome replayability value) is much higher than that of four cups of coffee.

So much for your "outrageous" prices. As I said, you're clueless, and cheap. It's not doctor's order to have or play the DLC's. It's not doctor's orders to play the game at all. If you don't like the price, instead of playing "outrageously priced" games, get a life and a job, maybe then the prices won't seem that "outrageous" anymore.

I will admit, I have not read the entire topic, so this might have been said already.

That is some cheap coffee you've got there.

[DMTyrisis]

I truly hate to be negative, but this is the most ignorant post I have seen in a long time.



The video game industry is a business, not a charity. You bought the game (the original game). That does not give you rights to all future content.



One word for you...Enchantment!

[MerinTB]

TesseractSpace wrote...
Sigh, I remember the days of old when a game was complete when you bought it. DLC seems like nothing more than a means for companies to bleed their customers for content that comes under two headings.

Really?  When was this?

KotOR 2 was released unfinished with significant content cut.
Most Troika games got released unfinished (ToEE, VTM: Bloodlines.)
Going back further, Knights of Legend wasn't complete.  Alternate Reality (what was released) was broken into two parts and released separately.
These are just what come to mind.  Publishers forcing unfinished games to hit the street is common, and has existed as long as video games have been made and sold.

TesseractSpace wrote...
There was a time when games were sold complete and little expansion mods might or might not come out but they were free to add onto the game. Sometimes a game might put out an expansion pack that cost, but it was usually something that added a lot to the game and wasn't just a tiny dribble of extra plot, nor were they needed for the game to stand on it's own.

Dragon Age: Origins isn't complete - how?  I've played through twice.  There's a beginning to the story, a middle, and an end.  All logical things you must do to complete the main story exist.  You fight the final battle.  There's a denounment with results being shown for many of the decisions you made.  You get a last chance to speak to all your companions.  Games lasts from 30 hours (for the speedy folks who skip stuff) to over 100 hours (for those of us who savor our CRPGs).  Seems pretty darn complete to me.

As far as expansions are concerned, I cannot think of one product labeled "expansion" that was ever released for a game for free.  If you wait enough time, sure, you can pick up a GOTY edition or Collector's Edition of some games (or a Battlechest) and get a game and it's expansion(s) for a low price, but that's a different topic.  Upon release, all Bioware expansions cost money.  All Obsidian expansions cost money.  All MMO expansions cost money.  There may well be a few examples you could dig up here or there, but they'd be exceptions and not the rule.  To my mind only Trials of the Luremaster for Icewind Dale comes up.

Finally, as for DLC, this is part of the new digital age, the internet age of downloading stuff instead of picking up a physical copy.  With the overhead of packaging, printing, burning discs, shipping, brick and mortar stores and employees and etc, it has never been really cost-effective to release small packs of updates or additional content - best to get a bunch of it so you can charge more for it and hope to turn a profit.  DLC is going to be the norm, and I think most companies are still working out the kinks as to what is good (Point Lookout, yes?) and what is bad (Horse Armor, no.)  DLC is relatively new to Bioware (I believe Mass Effect's Bring Down The Sky may well be their first real foray) so they are adjusting and trying to find the right balance.

Just because you can write down something doesn't make it true.  Many of your claims are demonstrably false.  You are completely in your right to dislike DLC, to wish only for big expansion packs, etc. -
but don't try to pass off some "facts" you pull out of nowhere as true.

The truth is that games have often been released unfinished.
The truth is that Dragon Age: Origins is a complete game as released.  It has a beginning, middle, and end to it's main story and even an aftermath.  It isn't Kotor 2 that just ends after you beat the last villain.
The truth is that expansion packs are almost never free when released.

[DoctorPringles]

I really don't see the point in this thread anymore. Just flaming, now.

[snake2895]

I didn't know PC was console gaming.

[addiction21]

DoctorPringles wrote...

I really don't see the point in this thread anymore. Just flaming, now.

But it is sooooo cold here and my heat pump turned into a ice cube 2 days ago. I needs the heat.

[Blue_dodo]

Crimzon Nutcase wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think it's a huge joke for Bioware to charge outrageous amounts of money for so little content. All of them can be finished in less than an hour and their main purpose is not to advance the story in a meaningful way, but to give player extra items. I can admit that Shale was moderately interesting - but then again they're planning on charging $15 for it, which is ridiculous. Don't get me started on RtO - they are basically recycling old stuff and charging for it. Oh wow, it has some new items. How amazing.

I think if the DLC's were free, it would really show commitment and dedication of Bioware to the community and encourage more people to buy this game. I think they could take a page out of Blizzard's book (free battle.net) on how to treat the fans of their game.

^Not This.

 funny, people who scream "Troll blizzard fanboi!!" are ironically trolls themselves

anyways to put it bluntly, bioware is a company they are not made of cash, developing content  isn't something that can be done in one day, it takes months.

one last thing remember that the content is being created by another human being and the do need to be paid somehow.

[LenaMarie]

The real definition of troll is posting anything opposite of what the fanboys think.

[AterumDominus]

Considering the mass ammount blizz has on market notice how thier dlc takes months(Not to mention all the bugs sever crashes each tome something new is launched by them and patch after patch class overpower look what happenedwith dk's till they bat everyone) and your dishing out 14.99 a month for wow since first launched. till you get your new patch which may take a few months where as i pay 5 bucksfor a dlc from bioware consider this a console game atm. not a mmo yet, Bioware has it down well so far.

Me being a wow player myself i can say i appreciate this game away from the hassle of LFG trade garb.

Infact i canceled my wow account even if i'm in a end game raiding guild in ice crown was toping dps who cares, cause i can say this game seems far more interesting than wows ..repeated weekely resets and story line.

Bioware your doing a fantastic job don't let trolls bring you down your dlc is awesome and worth considering you could charge more for what we are getting no one considers how much your team is busting their butts to deliver a good game. While having many other projects to launch as well

Not everyone is ever happy with things but i can say you done well in bringing something better to the table than the constant shoot em ups all over consoles.

Keep up the good work, You been successful
Much thanks!!

Modifié par AterumDominus, 14 janvier 2010 - 07:43 .

[thegreateski]

Surely no one can be this full of themselves?



Right?

[Frogman1975]

I think more fans should start taking advantage of the tool set and producing their own adventures so that we can have a robust level of diverse content, and something to tide us over between the "canon" updates and DLC from BioWare.



That's optimistic Froggy though. Pragmatic Froggy knows it's easier to gripe and moan.



(BTW, I don't code, but I'm available for help with editing text and storyline content, or voiceover work. I'm a writer/editor by trade.)

[Frogman1975]

wowpwnslol wrote...

So far nobody can come up with a reasonable argument as to why $5-10 for 40 minutes of recycled content or features that should have been included as quality of life is fair. It seems that people are simply content to kiss Bio's feet and accuse anyone who seeing through their money milking scheme of trolling.

Five to Ten bucks for something that has taken a whole team weeks and weeks to build (we're talking writers, scripters, voice actors, etc.) doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I don't know if that counts as a "reasonable argument" beyond that I would say "folks who do work deserve to be paid for that work."

Lord knows that, working as a contractor, I've had to sit around while folks decided when (or if) they needed to finally pay me for the work I had finished. And it was annoying.

So... that is my reasonable argument. It wasn't part of the original game development. It is an add on. People worked on it. People deserve to be paid for their work. And it isn't as long or intensive as the original game, but the pricing point reflects that.

Personally, I can't even get into most bars with a live band without paying more than $5 for a cover, then I've still got to buy drinks. Whether I stay for an hour, or half an hour, or three hours. So $5 for 40 minutes to an hour of content (I read all my codex entries, so things take me longer), that just doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

[Frogman1975]

TheMadCat wrote...

On another point, someone brought up dlc should not be used to put something that should have already been in the game in. I agree completely. Party Storage from warden's keep should have been in beforehand. But the keep itself was not a necessity to the story. RtO is a different story in my book. I believe it should have been included in the game as it seems illogical that our party would not return to attempt to search for specific things.

You know one of the devs released a mod that put's a storage chest in your camp right?

No, I didn't. Where? How?

I got Warden's Keep just for that extra storage (still haven't even used it yet, but I wants it... guess I need to go back after I've beat it since it was still in ruins when I left?), but I'd love to have extra storage right in my camp.

[Darkaine2]

addiction21 wrote...

Darkaine2 wrote...

Given that I never even use shale I know I would have been upset had I paid 15 for stone prisoner but since I got it technically for free I can't really complain.
Whatever the motivation it wasn't a very good strategy to use because it just made them look greedy by charging for content on launch day.

How was Stone Prisoner "technically" free? Did you have to give them your soul too?

Well it is in the eye of the beholder. As someone that followed the development of this game it was known in advanced that the game had been postponed about 6 months and they used that time to get some of the extra content up and running for launch. Now some like to say that it was content cut from the game. So I point them to the stone prisoner. Something they wanted to include in the full game but were unable to so they made it free with every new game purchased. That does not sound all that greedy.  They very well could of just nixed that idea and charged everyone for it.  Many seem to like to over look that little tid bit.
Now Wardens Keep was always ment to be a DLC and what would the difference have been if they waited a month? Look at RtO and imagine the outcry if it was known they had a completed DLC and held it back.
As for the worth of these things that is in the eye of the beholder.
(no malice or anything intended just saying)

I said technically just because I probably would have bought the deluxe edition anyway so it was just part of the package for me. I see what you are saying about waiting not making a difference but I think it's just a perception thing, when a game launches if the content is ready to be played a lot of people expect it to be in the game that they just paid 5o to 60 dollars for. Adding extra money on top of that to experience the whole game available just puts things in a bad light to some folks. I am not one of those people really, but I can see where some people would get annoyed or upset.

[Frogman1975]

wowpwnslol wrote...

(edited for length) See, it's very easy to say YOUR OPINION IS WRONG LOL. What isn't so easy is to prove why it's wrong. I put forth several arguments as to why DLCs should be free - because other companies provide more content for free and don't insult their fans by releasing single player loot pinata DLCs with almost no content for good amount of money and pretend they're amazing.

Most other "free" to paly monthly MMOs (like Runes of Magic, D& D online, etc.) survive with a "pay real cash for useless trinket / cosmetic upgrade" model. It's not unheard of. Of course, their quality, when compared to the quality of WoW and other paid MMOs, pales in comparison. Even you can't argue with that as a WoW fan.

[Frogman1975]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

MrHimuraChan wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Houses should be free. Cars should be free. Chocolate cupcakes should be free.

*puts hands out and waits patiently*

Don't forget ice cream and hot-dogs , that should be free too

*puts hands out and waits together*

We'll probably be waiting a long time, perhaps we should construct a lean-to or shelter of some sort?

Hey! Hey! Hey! You think those sticks and vines are free?!? You got to pay me if you want to use the brush on my land to construct your lean-to! Mr. Man comes around here everyday to gather sticks to sell to the Lil' Piggies and he always gives me my cut for clearing them out, so pay up ya squatters!

[Trxazael]

$5 is hardly outrageous. $7? pfff. Even $12 or $15 is to be scoffed at. If you have ever heard of these things called jobs, they're great for buying things!

[Frogman1975]

Dahelia wrote...

Hi Himura XD...and I am! Very much so...lol. And oh yes I did, I brought him in, everyone bow before him and end the useless bickering over something so silly.

Yeah. Trotting out the Wilder just got you biggee ups in my book.

[olioster]

SheffSteel wrote...

Noticed in the above link:
EA is also selling a handful of premium Dragon Age themes for 240 Microsoft points ($3) each on the Xbox Live Marketplace.
If you want to discuss whether DLC represents value for money, there is something to compare it to.

Most of the themes or gamerpics for any of the games on the Marketplace are made by Microsoft.

[Frogman1975]

Dr Bawbag wrote...

If there's one thing I've learnt frequenting dev sites, it's never to expect rational answers when you question pricing polices and whatnot.

More often than not the majority are made up of people that will blindly accept what they're given regardless of what financial costs are incurred. You just need to look further down the forum to see what i mean. There's a guy/gal announcing he'd have happily paid $99 for some more dialogue, which not surprisingly many agreed was a fantastic idea.

I suggest you go to a non dev forum if you're wanting some sensible answers and not just dismissed out of hand. A dev forum is never the best place to post this sort of subject.

Post how fantastic DA:O/Bioware are and you'll make a heap of friends.

You need to read Dahelia's posts over on the RtO thread if you really believe everyone disagreeing with this guy is a BioWare lickspittle, lol.

[David Gaider]

LenaMarie wrote...
The real definition of troll is posting anything opposite of what the fanboys think.

And apparently the real definition of "fanboy" is anyone daring to be reasonable or *gasp* supportive.

After reading some of the threads in these parts, I think the definition of "customer" needs some explaining to certain folks as well.

[Sentient Being]

David Gaider wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...
The real definition of troll is posting anything opposite of what the fanboys think.

And apparently the real definition of "fanboy" is anyone daring to be reasonable or *gasp* supportive.

After reading some of the threads in these parts, I think the definition of "customer" needs some explaining to certain folks as well.

As does the definition of competence

[Sloth Of Doom]

David Gaider wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...
The real definition of troll is posting anything opposite of what the fanboys think.

And apparently the real definition of "fanboy" is anyone daring to be reasonable or *gasp* supportive.

After reading some of the threads in these parts, I think the definition of "customer" needs some explaining to certain folks as well.

Customer:   Someone who demands outrageous things becase of an unfounded sense of self-entitlement?