945 réponses à ce sujet

[liffi]

To me I see the problem that we have these days is that everything cost more. To the makers too so with that they have to use more money than ever before to make the extra content and I guess they need some money to live. This is sad truth and some/most are not worth buying at all what the game makes bring out.



So If people realy are iffy about buying the download content then they should read about it and see what other people say about it. And not only forums read about them in game magazines and sites that review games cause their job is to give you idea what is worth buying and what is not. So I think you should do gain some info before buying.



dlc should be free??? yes and no. They would make any dlc if it was free or most would be crap cause most companies don't want to put out free stuff and the reason why is that they are owned bigger companies who say nay.

[addiction21]

Bibdy wrote...

 Because, let's be honest, marketing is the art of convincing you to spend your money, while at the same time, describing as little about the product as possible.

Papa addict used to say (that is before he was made into a 12 piece bucket at KFC with all the trimmings) "it is the salesmen job to make you part with your money in any way possible. Your job is to be sure you will be happy with what you are getting even if that means waiting a little longer, and even then you are still throwing the dice"
Also "one chickens coop is another chickens farmhouse"

[shorn_]

MerinTB wrote...

shorn_ wrote...

MerinTB

Your right the $$ per hour is crap ..in a way of thinking. That is..if for 15 hours of game play one gets a great game..thinking about hords of the underdark here..then they dont mind paying $35 bucks for it..if on the other hand the expansion sucks then $$ per hour starts to be the focus..

Think of it this way. You spend $10 to go see a movie..if the movie is great you may feel like you got your moneys worth..if the movie is crap then maybe you wish you could have your 2 hours and $10 back..

That, my friend, is a quality vs. quantity argument.

Are you paying for number of hours, or for how fun the game is?

As has been said numerous times by people, you could make a game where you endlessly do some task that never ends, thus making any price you pay for the game pretty much zero (anything divided by infinite, and all that) - so a game that just kept throwing random encounters at you, or a game that you kept traveling through an endlessly randomly generated dungeon, or some such, could have an unending single play-through.  But how fun is that?

To continue your movie analogy - is a horrible 4 hour movie better than a great 80 minute movie because you are getting more time for your ticket price?

Number of hours a single-player game takes IS a selling point, but also selling points are number of unique items in the game, level the character can reach, size of the game world, number of unique NPCs you can interact with, number of different kinds of monsters you face, etc.
Is there anyone out there saying "In DAO you get 300 unique item for $50, but in RTO you get 5 unique items for $5 - that's a comparision of 16 cents per item to $1 per item, what a RIP-OFF!" or "you have 9 NPCs you can add to your party for $50 in DAO but only 1 in Stone Prisoner for $15, what a RIP-OFF!"
No?  Right - because those are silly arguments.

To answer your question..Yes..most emphatically yes!

What you are paying for is a preception of worth. I.e. was it worth the time i spent doing XYZ. Did i have fun? was it good? could i overlook the problems? People make determinations about quality vs quantity all the time. I did not go watch 2012 because it costs $10 to go see a movie where im at. The movie did not look worth $10 to me so i would rather wait till its out on netflix or on cable. At the same time i saw Avatar because it looked like a movie that was quality and needed to be sceen on the big screen.

I dont think most people when they buy a game figure out the hours played vs the money im spending and use that as a determination to get the game or not to get it. Most people i know atleast look at the company making the game, the quality of games the company puts out, the type of game, and of course extra goodies like multi player which really equates to replay value. .

as Bibdy said, you never know till you buy the game if its something your going to like or not. For my money $45 for an expansion of a game that cost $50 for me to buy is to much money. So yeh i start to look at features like how many hours..what do i get for my $45 etc..If on the other hand bioware/ea games had set the price at say $25-$30 i would probably not worry so much about the extra goodies..

Why you ask? Simply put i cant say i have not played a game made by bioware that i did not enojy. I am more willing to pay a little higher price for something that i feel i can garentee is a quality product. for $45 though im more lible to wait till the expansion is in the bargin bin at my local game store..Again its perception of worth. How much do you preceive your time is worth, how much enjoyment do you want out of something your doing for the price your paying. Its not so much about time vs expence as it is quality vs expence.

Anyway im sure theres a overly dead horse somewhere on this thread

[MerinTB]

TesseractSpace wrote...
Wardens Keep on the other hand, looks tacked on from start to finish.  There's nothing in it that makes any difference to the rest of the game, no one seems to comment on anything you do once you leave the tacked on area, and it feels like nothing more than an excuse to toss out a few items and put in the storage chest that really should have already been in the game.

Just out of curiousity, what extra content for a game that you know of DOESN'T have the effect I underlined in your statement?

I'm running through my head of pretty much all the DLC / Expansions I've played and (outside of items, XP, gold, and the experience of playing the new content) I can't think of one that isn't "tacked on" and or does,'t have the "no one comments on you having done it once you leave the area" experience.

Watcher's Keep in BG2.
Heart of Winter and Trials of the Luremaster in IWD.
Any of the DLC for Fallout 3 (I've played them all, and not once is anything from Point Lookout or Mothership Zeta or The Pitt mentioned outside of those areas other than the in-game ways to find said locations.)
I didn't play much of it, but I don't remember the one add-on for Fable 2 I paid for doing anything either outside of it's own area.

There's probably a good reason for this - you have to go in and recode areas to add reactions, and doing that to an already released game is just begging for new bugs I would bet.

It is disappointing, I admit, that you can defeat Demogorgon and Irenicus doesn't seem to care.  Or that while the Outcasts will buy Alien Energy cells and the original Alien Blaster AND are all gun-ho for Enclave tech that they don't bat an eye at anything else you bring down from the alien ship (including really advanced weapons) and that you can't show it to Moira and have her be all impressed.  Or that you can learn all the stuff about Jerrod's spirit and such in Heart of Winter BEFORE finishing the original Icewind Dale, go back to Kuldahar and still have to remain ignorant of said stuff about Jerrod through the end of that game.
*shrug*  That's how add-ons work, though.

Modifié par MerinTB, 15 janvier 2010 - 07:18 .

[MerinTB]

shorn_ wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Are you paying for number of hours, or for how fun the game is?
(...)
But how fun is that?
(...)
To continue your movie analogy - is a horrible 4 hour movie better than a great 80 minute movie because you are getting more time for your ticket price?
(...)
Is there anyone out there saying "In DAO you get 300 unique item for $50, but in RTO you get 5 unique items for $5 - that's a comparision of 16 cents per item to $1 per item, what a RIP-OFF!" or "you have 9 NPCs you can add to your party for $50 in DAO but only 1 in Stone Prisoner for $15, what a RIP-OFF!"

To answer your question..Yes..most emphatically yes!

Not to be annoying, but yes to WHICH question?

[Shadowwot]

I think that my mortgage should be free as well - but I don't think I'll ever live to see that happen either.

[Bullets McDeath]

This thread is looking like a fool with it's pants on the ground.

[shorn_]

MerinTB wrote...

shorn_ wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Are you paying for number of hours, or for how fun the game is?
(...)
But how fun is that?
(...)
To continue your movie analogy - is a horrible 4 hour movie better than a great 80 minute movie because you are getting more time for your ticket price?
(...)
Is there anyone out there saying "In DAO you get 300 unique item for $50, but in RTO you get 5 unique items for $5 - that's a comparision of 16 cents per item to $1 per item, what a RIP-OFF!" or "you have 9 NPCs you can add to your party for $50 in DAO but only 1 in Stone Prisoner for $15, what a RIP-OFF!"

To answer your question..Yes..most emphatically yes!

Not to be annoying, but yes to WHICH question?

hehe, your not annoying..for what ever reason im actually starting to like your banter..

Yes to your question of.."Are you paying for number of hours, or for how fun the game is?" mostly saying its more complicated than that just that but in the end if the game sucks then people will look at number of hours playing and feel a bit ripped off..

Like this..the other day i went to a fancy resturaunt and ordered a steak. The steak was fine over all but for the price it did not wow me..in the end it was something i could have made at home for alot less money. . At the same time i have been to fancy resturants and ordered high priced steaks that leave me speachless...a steak that is the most exsqusit thing besides my lovers lips to touch my lips..a steak that is so good that whatever the price you pay for it is most likely worth it..

Speaking about steak im about to fire up the BBQ

[shorn_]

outlaworacle wrote...

This thread is looking like a fool with it's pants on the ground.

This should cheer you up then Outlaworacle..

Bioware announces Nine new DLC's!

[addiction21]

shorn_ wrote...


Speaking about steak im about to fire up the BBQ

Shreded BBQ )pork beef whatever) inbetween to waffles is excellent.

[TesseractSpace]

MerinTB wrote...

TesseractSpace wrote...
Wardens Keep on the other hand, looks tacked on from start to finish.  There's nothing in it that makes any difference to the rest of the game, no one seems to comment on anything you do once you leave the tacked on area, and it feels like nothing more than an excuse to toss out a few items and put in the storage chest that really should have already been in the game.

Just out of curiousity, what extra content for a game that you know of DOESN'T have the effect I underlined in your statement?

I'm running through my head of pretty much all the DLC / Expansions I've played and (outside of items, XP, gold, and the experience of playing the new content) I can't think of one that isn't "tacked on" and or does,'t have the "no one comments on you having done it once you leave the area" experience.

Watcher's Keep in BG2.
Heart of Winter and Trials of the Luremaster in IWD.
Any of the DLC for Fallout 3 (I've played them all, and not once is anything from Point Lookout or Mothership Zeta or The Pitt mentioned outside of those areas other than the in-game ways to find said locations.)
I didn't play much of it, but I don't remember the one add-on for Fable 2 I paid for doing anything either outside of it's own area.

There's probably a good reason for this - you have to go in and recode areas to add reactions, and doing that to an already released game is just begging for new bugs I would bet.

It is disappointing, I admit, that you can defeat Demogorgon and Irenicus doesn't seem to care.  Or that while the Outcasts will buy Alien Energy cells and the original Alien Blaster AND are all gun-ho for Enclave tech that they don't bat an eye at anything else you bring down from the alien ship (including really advanced weapons) and that you can't show it to Moira and have her be all impressed.  Or that you can learn all the stuff about Jerrod's spirit and such in Heart of Winter BEFORE finishing the original Icewind Dale, go back to Kuldahar and still have to remain ignorant of said stuff about Jerrod through the end of that game.
*shrug*  That's how add-ons work, though.

Let me see what I can recall, The Stone Prisoner for one.  Forge of Virtue for Ultima 7 had other characters react, not many but at least a couple.   I'm not asking that they rewrite all the dialog, just add a sentence or two from someone outside the addon area to make it seem like the addon is part of the world not something shoehorned in.  It's a tiny thing but it adds to the feeling that these are part of a coherent story.  

[mrmike_1949]

SheffSteel wrote...

I'm saying that everyone who is doing this dollars-per-hour, or hours-per-dollar, calculation (as if RtO is a separate entertainment product like a movie ticket, coffee, happy meal, etc.) is doing a meaningless calculation.

It gives thoroughly misleading results like this:-
"DAO game = 50 hours for $50 = 1 hour per dollar
RtO DLC = 0.5 hours for $5 = 0.1 hours per dollar
Therefore, RtO is ten times worse (zomg!)"

If you had a choice between buying DAO and buying RtO, that would be a useful comparison to make.
But no one is actually making that choice.
Anyone who hasn't bought DAO isn't going to get any value from RtO; conversely anyone who's seriously considering RtO has already bought DAO.

A realistic comparison looks like this:-
"DAO game = 50 hours for $50 = 1 hour per dollar
DAO game plus RtO DLC = 50.5 hours for $55 = 0.92 hours per dollar
Therefore, buying RtO after buying DAO lowers the overall value by 8%."

1) No, it's not meaningless - it's one objective measure of value, Yes, I know that subjective enjoyment also figures into it - but just for funs, let us assume that the DLCs offer as much enjoyment per hour of gameplay as DAO (it's not true), then we can "estimate" a relative value between DAO and any DLC. That word, relative, is the key.

2) No, not worse, 10X more expensive; actually, it's 60X worse

3) Duh

4) Straight from EA marketing dept; but keep going : 10 DLCs + DAO = total $100 for 55 hours

My objection to the high price per game hour is getting screwed by EA/Bioware. I hate getting screwed over. That's why I WILL NOT be buying and DLC until it is a good value. For Fallout 3, I waited until GOTY edition came out which included all DLC for same price as base game. Since I already bought DAO, I can't do that.

My objection to all the yoyos so eager to pay so much for DLC is that it makes EA too happy to keep high prices for DLC. I do think it's a good thing that RtO price was $5 compared to WK which was $7, but both are still too expensive.

I still hold that the cost of producing DLC is less per hour of gameplay than producing the original game; on the other hand, the DLC sales volume will almost surely be less also

MikeK

[ladydesire]

traversc wrote...

It's just sad that so many fanboys are hurting the rest of us by enabling Bioware in this shameless money grab known as DLC.  They should be working on actual content.  And no, lots of shiny new items != content.

Why can't they do both, since that's what they are doing; or did you miss the announcement for the Expansion that's supposed to come out in March?

Please Bioware, I beg you.  Listen to your REAL fans.  Stop this madness.  You KNOW it is wrong.

What's wrong with closure (meaning finding the bodies of two brave men that died trying to halt the Darrkspawn Blight)? What's wrong with adding to the lore a little bit at a time, especially since this is the beginning of a new game setting that very well could rival the Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk in the future. 

I'll be buying RtO, because it adds to the story of DA, and any insights that will come up during it.

-OR- you can spend all of 2 minutes searching on google and reading what happens.  Yeah, a paragraph of additional storyline is so valuable. 

Sure, people could do that, but why should your feelings on the matter interfere with what they want to do with their own money?

[marbatico]

i'm not so sure if duncan is even dead, i mean, we never saw him die, wich i find strange becouse you did see cailan die.

[ladydesire]

TesseractSpace wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

TesseractSpace wrote...
Wardens Keep on the other hand, looks tacked on from start to finish.  There's nothing in it that makes any difference to the rest of the game, no one seems to comment on anything you do once you leave the tacked on area, and it feels like nothing more than an excuse to toss out a few items and put in the storage chest that really should have already been in the game.

Just out of curiousity, what extra content for a game that you know of DOESN'T have the effect I underlined in your statement?

I'm running through my head of pretty much all the DLC / Expansions I've played and (outside of items, XP, gold, and the experience of playing the new content) I can't think of one that isn't "tacked on" and or does,'t have the "no one comments on you having done it once you leave the area" experience.

Watcher's Keep in BG2.
Heart of Winter and Trials of the Luremaster in IWD.
Any of the DLC for Fallout 3 (I've played them all, and not once is anything from Point Lookout or Mothership Zeta or The Pitt mentioned outside of those areas other than the in-game ways to find said locations.)
I didn't play much of it, but I don't remember the one add-on for Fable 2 I paid for doing anything either outside of it's own area.

There's probably a good reason for this - you have to go in and recode areas to add reactions, and doing that to an already released game is just begging for new bugs I would bet.

It is disappointing, I admit, that you can defeat Demogorgon and Irenicus doesn't seem to care.  Or that while the Outcasts will buy Alien Energy cells and the original Alien Blaster AND are all gun-ho for Enclave tech that they don't bat an eye at anything else you bring down from the alien ship (including really advanced weapons) and that you can't show it to Moira and have her be all impressed.  Or that you can learn all the stuff about Jerrod's spirit and such in Heart of Winter BEFORE finishing the original Icewind Dale, go back to Kuldahar and still have to remain ignorant of said stuff about Jerrod through the end of that game.
*shrug*  That's how add-ons work, though.

Let me see what I can recall, The Stone Prisoner for one.  Forge of Virtue for Ultima 7 had other characters react, not many but at least a couple.   I'm not asking that they rewrite all the dialog, just add a sentence or two from someone outside the addon area to make it seem like the addon is part of the world not something shoehorned in.  It's a tiny thing but it adds to the feeling that these are part of a coherent story.  

Stone Prisoner actually was planned as part of the game, but cut to meet a deadline that they decided not to meet. As far as the Warden's Keep story, it kind of makes sense that it doesn't have more interaction with the outside, since the Grey Warden's are supposed to be politically neutral, so it's not like anyone would care about Soldier's Peak other than a Grey Warden; I'd say more, but this is the "no spoilers" forum.

[addiction21]

marbatico wrote...

i'm not so sure if duncan is even dead, i mean, we never saw him die, wich i find strange becouse you did see cailan die.

Well how they do it implied his death but does leave it open, and if he is not dead I can only imagine one conclusion really since he was a old long time warden...
But then we are supposed to be raging over having to pay for something...

[grieferbastard]

mrmike_1949 wrote...

My objection to the high price per game hour is getting screwed by EA/Bioware. I hate getting screwed over. That's why I WILL NOT be buying and DLC until it is a good value. For Fallout 3, I waited until GOTY edition came out which included all DLC for same price as base game. Since I already bought DAO, I can't do that.

My objection to all the yoyos so eager to pay so much for DLC is that it makes EA too happy to keep high prices for DLC. I do think it's a good thing that RtO price was $5 compared to WK which was $7, but both are still too expensive.

I still hold that the cost of producing DLC is less per hour of gameplay than producing the original game; on the other hand, the DLC sales volume will almost surely be less also

Again, I'm going to have to say that by your logic BioWare should have made a shorter, less enjoyable game in order to lend value to the DLC? 

I'm all on board with you voting with your dollar. If you don't feel like Wardens Keep was worth $7 then don't buy it. It was worth it to me for example though. More than worth it. $7 is insignificant to me. What IS significant is that DA:O is an exemplary game. Given the crushing decline the gaming industry (not to mention world economy) every single penny that's invested in a new game is a bit harder to justify I want DA:O to be a money-making cash-cow of a game. I want every single game developer to look down at his crappy lunch, then look over at the banquet that is DA:O and say 'Damn. I want what he's having!' I'm voting with my dollar to support DA:O and the DLC provided by it. The price of DLC so far is great to me and, as I have said before, I would have it delivered in individual dollar bills, rolled up and cupped in the cleavage of DA:O cosplayers if I could.

Attempting to judge the value of the DLC based on the value of DA:O is terribly disengenuous though. How about we measure that DA:O is inexcess of 100 hours more gameplay larger than standard games for the same price and provides more enjoyment per hour. Take your average 30 hour game. 110 hours (or less) less playtime and less enjoyment per hour for the time you're playing.

By that standard you should be paying 49.99 for 30 hours of enjoyment. That's approximately 1.67/hour. You should have paid 233.29 for DA:O, not counting DLC. I would say that you owe BioWare a lot of money.

[EverlastingFantasy]

WoW sucks

[FieryDove]

grieferbastard wrote...

I'm all on board with you voting with your dollar. If you don't feel like Wardens Keep was worth $7 then don't buy it. It was worth it to me for example though. More than worth it. $7 is insignificant to me. What IS significant is that DA:O is an exemplary game. Given the crushing decline the gaming industry (not to mention world economy) every single penny that's invested in a new game is a bit harder to justify I want DA:O to be a money-making cash-cow of a game. I want every single game developer to look down at his crappy lunch, then look over at the banquet that is DA:O and say 'Damn. I want what he's having!' I'm voting with my dollar to support DA:O and the DLC provided by it. The price of DLC so far is great to me and, as I have said before, I would have it delivered in individual dollar bills, rolled up and cupped in the cleavage of DA:O cosplayers if I could.

Attempting to judge the value of the DLC based on the value of DA:O is terribly disengenuous though. How about we measure that DA:O is inexcess of 100 hours more gameplay larger than standard games for the same price and provides more enjoyment per hour. Take your average 30 hour game. 110 hours (or less) less playtime and less enjoyment per hour for the time you're playing.

A voice of reason in the chaos is appreciated.

[TesseractSpace]

ladydesire wrote...

Stone Prisoner actually was planned as part of the game, but cut to meet a deadline that they decided not to meet. As far as the Warden's Keep story, it kind of makes sense that it doesn't have more interaction with the outside, since the Grey Warden's are supposed to be politically neutral, so it's not like anyone would care about Soldier's Peak other than a Grey Warden; I'd say more, but this is the "no spoilers" forum.

The problem is, even the Grey Wardens don't seem to care.  I'd say more but again 'no spoilers'.

[K9miles]

I don't mind paying for DLC, what I would of liked in WK was a finish instead of what seemed like a hastily scrapped together camp site. Since this is a no spoiler zone, when i completed WK and then returned I was sorely disappointed, given the tools most anyone could of figured out how to drop a few NPCs into an already created level. Why not have that zone be something that reflects the quality of the work. Only thing there was ... birds + .... - that was almost good enough to overlook the shoddy extra camp site without being able to interact as though it was a camp. Again, because this is a no spoiler I tried to be vague, maybe too vague but hopefully you understand my point.

[SheffSteel]

mrmike_1949 wrote...

Straight from EA marketing dept; but keep going : 10 DLCs + DAO = total $100 for 55 hours

... leaving us with about $1.82 per hour, or 0.55 hours per dollar.
Still much better value than the vast majority of games out there.

Maybe we need to "keep going" more?

How about 100 DLCs + DAO = $550 for 100 hours?
That's $5.50 per hour, or 0.18 hours per dollar... about the same as a $50 game offering 9 hours of gameplay.

That would be pretty bad, right? Cos no one buys those games.

[mrmike_1949]

Again, I'm going to have to say that by your logic BioWare should have
made a shorter, less enjoyable game in order to lend value to the DLC? 

No, that's your logic, not mine.

I'm
all on board with you voting with your dollar. If you don't feel like
Wardens Keep was worth $7 then don't buy it. It was worth it to me for
example though. More than worth it. $7 is insignificant to me. What IS
significant is that DA:O is an exemplary game. Given the crushing
decline the gaming industry (not to mention world economy) every single
penny that's invested in a new game is a bit harder to justify I want
DA:O to be a money-making cash-cow of a game. I want every single game
developer to look down at his crappy lunch, then look over at the
banquet that is DA:O and say 'Damn. I want what he's having!' I'm
voting with my dollar to support DA:O and the DLC provided by it. The
price of DLC so far is great to me and, as I have said before, I would
have it delivered in individual dollar bills, rolled up and cupped in
the cleavage of DA:O cosplayers if I could.

This is actually a valid point, but how much is too much? Yes I want to encourage companies to create RPG games; we've been getting only 1 or 2 good rpg games per year for far too long. But from sales figures, it seems that DAO is going to sell close to 10 million units - figure EA/Bioware gets $25 per copy (half ?) that's $250 million. I find it hard to beleive that it cost more $10 million to produce. And if only 10% of DAO buyers purchase RtO, that's $5 million, all of which goes to EA/BW. And there is NO WAY that RtO cost any more than $1 million to produce, likely less than half that. So how much profit do you want EA/BW to make off of you ?

If they make 10 DLCs over the next 2 years, are you going to keep paying $5 for 1/2 hour of gameplay? That's $50 for 5 hours of play - that's pretty expensive!!!!

Attempting to
judge the value of the DLC based on the value of DA:O is terribly
disengenuous though. How about we measure that DA:O is inexcess of 100
hours more gameplay larger than standard games for the same price and
provides more enjoyment per hour. Take your average 30 hour game. 110
hours (or less) less playtime and less enjoyment per hour for the time
you're playing.

By that standard you should be paying 49.99 for
30 hours of enjoyment. That's approximately 1.67/hour. You should have
paid 233.29 for DA:O, not counting DLC. I would say that you owe
BioWare a lot of money.

Just reverse that logic: implies that other games are not worth the price, which is why they don't sell 10 million copies, and also implies that the DLCs are not worth the money. Not all other games are short or lacking replay value either. There are many games with as much game play as DAO; the replay value is somewhat increased because of the Acheivement awards and the different starts for different races - which was a smart move form Bioware, a genuine innovation, which does increase the games value (DAO, not the DLCs)

MikeK

[SheffSteel]

mrmike_1949 wrote...

 from sales figures, it seems that DAO is going to sell close to 10 million units - figure EA/Bioware gets $25 per copy (half ?) that's $250 million. I find it hard to beleive that it cost more $10 million to produce. And if only 10% of DAO buyers purchase RtO, that's $5 million, all of which goes to EA/BW.

Speculation, wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
Game publishing is neither that cheap nor that profitable.

[mrmike_1949]

SheffSteel wrote...

mrmike_1949 wrote...

 from sales figures, it seems that DAO is going to sell close to 10 million units - figure EA/Bioware gets $25 per copy (half ?) that's $250 million. I find it hard to beleive that it cost more $10 million to produce. And if only 10% of DAO buyers purchase RtO, that's $5 million, all of which goes to EA/BW.

Speculation, wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
Game publishing is neither that cheap nor that profitable.

If you know better numbers, put 'em out there. You'll have to work hard to convince me that it cost very much more than $10 million to produce DAO though.

Speculation on what percentage of the $50 retail price does EA get, yes total WAG - but, have you got any data to suggest different

MikeK