945 réponses à ce sujet

[izmirtheastarach]

In our society, often money is exchanged for goods and services. Digital goods are still goods. Hence, we exchange money for them.

What is complicated about this? A company can charge whatever the market will bear for whatever products it wishes to sell, and the market will tell them whether they are charging too much.

If you think DLC is overpriced, don't buy it. It's as simple as that. But the idea that it should be free just because you want it to be is ludicrous. How are Bioware going to continue to pay the people working on this DLC if they stop charging for their product? Again, this seems like a fairly simple concept.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 12 janvier 2010 - 05:14 .

[soteria]

I think the ferris wheel at my local amusement park should be free. It only lasts a couple minutes, and it's always running anyway. They have free seats--what would it cost to let me jump in? Bunch of money-grubbers.

[izmirtheastarach]

soteria wrote...

I think the ferris wheel at my local amusement park should be free. It only lasts a couple minutes, and it's always running anyway. They have free seats--what would it cost to let me jump in? Bunch of money-grubbers.

A very good example. They charged me to get into the park, no why should I have to pay for the rides as well?

And once again, the very simple answer: because they want to. They are running a business, and they can charge you whatever they want.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 12 janvier 2010 - 05:19 .

[WarlordThor]

David Gaider wrote...

Why does anything cost what it does? Why does a 2 hour movie cost $15 for the ticket? Should tickets for 90-minute movies cost less?

Where in the world does a movie ticket cost $15? They are $9 here and I can easily get them for $7 for matinees or through other discounts. For 2 and a half hours of entertainment compared to 20 minutes to an hour that dlc gives, at comparable prices, yes the dlc seems like a rip.

That brings me back to another thought. Perhaps then we are paying an inflated price based on where Bioware is located or a majority of its people are located? Such as the cost of living in NYC or Washington DC is substantially more (up to 60% more) than some rural areas. If movie tickets cost $15 in the areas BW is based, I guess I can understand the price for dlc more. It does kind of suck that people in other areas would get hit with these costs, but it's how it works.

[Yalision]

David Gaider wrote...

Why does anything cost what it does? Why does a 2 hour movie cost $15 for the ticket? Should tickets for 90-minute movies cost less? I bought lunch yesterday for $16 and it took me about 15 minutes to eat. Yet the last novel I bought cost $12 and lasted me several days. I paid $60 for an HBO DVD set which lasted about 13 hours and considered it money well-spent. Yet I'll pay $5 for a greeting card, $16 for a 30-page adventure that will take my gaming group weeks to get through, $1.95 for a 3-minute song on iTunes and $3.50 for the coffee I had yesterday at Starbuck's.
Do all these things cost according to the time it takes to enjoy them? Of course not. Nothing is priced that way. These things are priced as they are because people are willing to pay that price, because they want it.

If you want to look on a video game -- or any piece of video game content -- as only being worth the amount of time it takes to play, that's totally up to you. For me, I've played 10-hr games that I enjoyed immensely, as well as 50-hr games. Did they roughly cost the same? Sure did. Did I feel ripped off? Not at all. Would I prefer to see longer games? Who wouldn't? The fact that some people could still call even a 30-hr game short (never mind one like DA that lasts anywhere from 40-80 hrs by most peoples' reports) certainly means they aren't comparing it to any other game currently being made, but that's their business.

In the end, you'll pay what you're willing to pay. If something doesn't look like it'll provide you enjoyment, then you shouldn't buy it. If enough people don't buy it, then we're obviously charging too much compared to how much they want it. If enough people do buy it, then we're good. Someone can get outraged if they want, but claiming that something is wrong simply because they do want the extra content but don't want to pay for it says more about their level of entitlement than anything else. In the end, we'll still be providing patches for DA (as we did for NWN, which -- surprise, surprise -- also had the "premium modules" for download) and possibly even some free content. With regards to the DLC, you can buy it or not buy it. The decision is yours, to decide whether it's worth anything to you or how entitled you feel to have it in addition to what came with the original game.

---

And with regards to the general level of rhetoric on this thread, let's keep it down. No personal insults and flaming, please. Consider yourself warned.

A very well formulated argument, but in the end it will not dismiss the people who look at premium content as though they deserve it ("entitled"). A recent industry survey indicates that only 15% of gamers buy DLC as well. So the tell-tale signs of those individuals seems fairly obvious more and more as we approach RtO.

Keep making quality content and the true gamers will buy it. No complaints here, as I love this game so much as to vote with my wallet for more content in the future.

[Softimage]

i think the problem is, this game is so good that people get pissed there isnt much more to play after you complete it, you want more, and in some way you get disappointed to play a DLC for so few time, completing the DLC is really easy and straight forward.



This game is awesome, i would pay double to get tons of hours to play, not just 20 minutes, but meh..hope there will be major DLC even if we have to wait, i remember Icewind Dale expansion were awesome and actually harder and deep story, i think they should owrk hard to release lots of contents, lots of hours of gameplaying, not free, but at right cost because they work and its fair they get payed.



That said i didnt expect the DLC was so easy and short but better than nothing, i got shale DLC for free since i bought the package where it was free included.

Lets hope for the better, this game is really one of the best in last years, they know it, they saw the feedback, they should work and hammer while its the good time!

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...

bzombo wrote...
troll. blizzard fanboi. anything else for your resume?

That is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about. It is no more acceptable from the original poster than it is from those who respond to him. If you have no point to make, then please refrain.

Agreed.

About the only use the word tossing out the word fanboy or "fanboi" has is to be demeaning.

It is not productive.

Just because you find someone's statement juvenile is not a license for you to act as such yourself.

[Timurlane]

David Gaider wrote...
Common sense and basic facts a 5-year old should know in a very polite way.

I think it's sad that BioWare community correspondents need to be the ones who explain this sort of thing to anybody.

Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it.  Return to Ostagar is worth nothing to some people and those people will not pay anything for it.  It's worth $5 to me which I already spent for the points to buy it.  It could be worth $10 or even $20 to somebody who desperately wants Cailin's armour set but is not familiar with the toolset.
This sort of thread is so pathetically childish and uninformed I'm really shocked (and somewhat saddened for you) that it would actually garner a BioWare response.  This is the kind of thing a daddy teaches his 5 year old son when teaching him about money and value, not a lesson you should need to be taught from a video games' spokesperson.
When I saw this thread yesterday I thought from the topic name that it was probably inane and stupid (not to mention he has an apostrophe where none should exist to reinforce that the OP is also not particularly literate) so I didn't bother to check it.  Seeing a BioWare response this morning I thought I might have been wrong and that there was some point of merit which I was missing.

I don't see how it is possible to reply to the OP without 'flaming' because for a person to be incapable of understanding relative value and to come and say something so silly as "DLCs should be free" is just plain stupid.  It's not being mean to say what is self-evidentally true.  The cost isn't determined by the amount of time it takes a person to complete the dlc but rather by the amount of time it takes to create and supply and demand.  Your logic is so stupid and so ignorant that you would tell somebody your caviar should be free because you can consume it in seconds, and your cocaine should be even cheaper than free because it's gone in one second.  The comparison to blizzard, who are charging costumers every single month (and who have NEVER released a single expansion pack for less than full game price) is as ignorant and stupid as the rest of your post.  Wrong on the facts, poorly written, poorly thought out (if at all) post all around.

Modifié par Timurlane, 12 janvier 2010 - 05:29 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Yalision wrote...

A very well formulated argument, but in the end it will not dismiss the people who look at premium content as though they deserve it ("entitled"). A recent industry survey indicates that only 15% of gamers buy DLC as well. So the tell-tale signs of those individuals seems fairly obvious more and more as we approach RtO.

Keep making quality content and the true gamers will buy it. No complaints here, as I love this game so much as to vote with my wallet for more content in the future.

I saw that number as well. If only 15% of gamers buy DLC, then who are these people who are complaining? Are they people who buy DLC? Because if they aren't I wonder why Bioware would care about them at all.

[Eurypterid]

Timurlane, you should take heed of David's last comment in his original post. Your post is nothing more than a long--winded insult and flame of the OP.



Tone it down folks, or bad things will begin to happen. Savvy?

[WarlordThor]

Timurlane wrote...

I don't see how it is possible to reply to the OP without 'flaming' because for a person to be incapable of understanding relative value and to come and say something so silly as "DLCs should be free" is just plain stupid.  It's not being mean to say what is self-evidentally true.  The cost isn't determined by the amount of time it takes a person to complete the dlc but rather by the amount of time it takes to create and supply and demand.  Your logic is so stupid and so ignorant that you would tell somebody your caviar should be free because you can consume it in seconds, and your cocaine should be even cheaper than free because it's gone in one second.  The comparison to blizzard, who are charging costumers every single month (and who have NEVER released a single expansion pack for less than full game price) is as ignorant and stupid as the rest of your post.  Wrong on the facts, poorly written, poorly thought out (if at all) post all around.

Not to totally discount your point, but in the same post you are insulting the OP for not understanding relative value, you show the same lack of understanding. Why should they not make the comparison if the relative value to them when it comes to Blizzard is well worth it?

The comparison with blizzard, more accurately WoW, is pretty ridicolous but based on the fact it is an MMO. Comparing an MMO to a single player game in terms of cost is a bit like comparing a movie to a tv series. They are different beasts.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think it's a huge joke for Bioware to charge outrageous amounts of money for so little content. All of them can be finished in less than an hour and their main purpose is not to advance the story in a meaningful way, but to give player extra items. I can admit that Shale was moderately interesting - but then again they're planning on charging $15 for it, which is ridiculous. Don't get me started on RtO - they are basically recycling old stuff and charging for it. Oh wow, it has some new items. How amazing.

I think if the DLC's were free, it would really show commitment and dedication of Bioware to the community and encourage more people to buy this game. I think they could take a page out of Blizzard's book (free battle.net) on how to treat the fans of their game.

HAHAHAHAA YEAH SURE.

That's not how capitalism works, sport. You can either buy the DLC, or not play it at all. Your choice. But don't come on here demanding free stuff like a parasite on society. This isn't Soviet Russia, people want to get paid for their hard work.

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

When you purcased Dragon Age: Origins - you got your moneys worth with the retail game.

Any content beyond that is optional - its up to you whether you think its worth your money - of course its not going to be value for money like the actual game is. And those who do want to spend the extra for DLC can which in turn supports further development. Dragon Age is not a pay subscription service. They have no obligations to spend time and money on content only to release it for free.

You've got to think about it like that. You have the choice to buy this DLC. You don't have to.

Modifié par Pr3ying M4nt15 360, 12 janvier 2010 - 05:40 .

[WarlordThor]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think it's a huge joke for Bioware to charge outrageous amounts of money for so little content. All of them can be finished in less than an hour and their main purpose is not to advance the story in a meaningful way, but to give player extra items. I can admit that Shale was moderately interesting - but then again they're planning on charging $15 for it, which is ridiculous. Don't get me started on RtO - they are basically recycling old stuff and charging for it. Oh wow, it has some new items. How amazing.

I think if the DLC's were free, it would really show commitment and dedication of Bioware to the community and encourage more people to buy this game. I think they could take a page out of Blizzard's book (free battle.net) on how to treat the fans of their game.

HAHAHAHAA YEAH SURE.

That's not how capitalism works, sport. You can either buy the DLC, or not play it at all. Your choice. But don't come on here demanding free stuff like a parasite on society. This isn't Soviet Russia, people want to get paid for their hard work.

While people may be dead set against the OP, there is actually a point there.

There are some companies who have gone ahead and made their dlc free or relatively very cheap in order to build the fanbase. It can work.

I think the discussion mainly just needs to focus on the very short nature of the dlc for the price. Again, when figuring in cost of living differences and what not it may come out reasonable.Personally I feel more like I paid money for the items and abilities of Warden's Keep. The story zoomed by. I play for the story not to get some items that I will beat the game with or without. Then again, not all people share this philosophy which is understandable.

[Timurlane]

WarlordThor wrote...

Timurlane wrote...

I don't see how it is possible to reply to the OP without 'flaming' because for a person to be incapable of understanding relative value and to come and say something so silly as "DLCs should be free" is just plain stupid.  It's not being mean to say what is self-evidentally true.  The cost isn't determined by the amount of time it takes a person to complete the dlc but rather by the amount of time it takes to create and supply and demand.  Your logic is so stupid and so ignorant that you would tell somebody your caviar should be free because you can consume it in seconds, and your cocaine should be even cheaper than free because it's gone in one second.  The comparison to blizzard, who are charging costumers every single month (and who have NEVER released a single expansion pack for less than full game price) is as ignorant and stupid as the rest of your post.  Wrong on the facts, poorly written, poorly thought out (if at all) post all around.

Not to totally discount your point, but in the same post you are insulting the OP for not understanding relative value, you show the same lack of understanding. Why should they not make the comparison if the relative value to them when it comes to Blizzard is well worth it?

The comparison with blizzard, more accurately WoW, is pretty ridicolous but based on the fact it is an MMO. Comparing an MMO to a single player game in terms of cost is a bit like comparing a movie to a tv series. They are different beasts.

I never made any judgements of what Blizzard charges being worth more or less than what any other company offers.  All I stated was that Blizzard does not supply its users with free content.  WoW supplies its content at a fraction of the cost of your monthly subscription, while the expansion packs for its other games are full game cost expansions you pay for before playing.  Personally I've bought all their expansions as well as paying for WoW for a few years.  Those costs were not above the value I got for them but I would never suggest they would be for everybody nor that the costs should be lowered.

If people will pay for it, that is what it is worth by definition once it is paid.

The only reason a company would invest its time into a product like dlc to give it out for free is if they are trying to expand the market for that intellectual property title because they think they can recover the investment in future sales by boosting the market with good cheap content now.  Many games are apparently released at either a loss if a very low profit for the purposes of keeping a particular IP market alive and growing.

Modifié par Timurlane, 12 janvier 2010 - 05:44 .

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

There are some companies who have gone ahead and made their dlc free or relatively very cheap in order to build the fanbase. It can work.

While I understand your point. I think such developers you are refering to typically do it to build their multiplayer fanbase, fill the servers which is required for multiplayer focused games.

The trouble is with single player only games is some people will pick the game up after its dramatically come down in price or will pick the game up second hand. DLC helps encourage people to make up the difference.

So yeah a person might buy dragon age after its dropped in price but then spends 15 dollars on DLC so bioware doesn't miss out.

[xka]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think it's a huge joke for Bioware to charge outrageous amounts of money for so little content. All of them can be finished in less than an hour and their main purpose is not to advance the story in a meaningful way, but to give player extra items. I can admit that Shale was moderately interesting - but then again they're planning on charging $15 for it, which is ridiculous. Don't get me started on RtO - they are basically recycling old stuff and charging for it. Oh wow, it has some new items. How amazing.

I think if the DLC's were free, it would really show commitment and dedication of Bioware to the community and encourage more people to buy this game. I think they could take a page out of Blizzard's book (free battle.net) on how to treat the fans of their game.

Im very critic with actual DLC politics. I have defended, and i do, that paying 5€ (lets put  like a media) for 1 hour DLC is very expensive. I have very very very clear this question, and im very displeased in this way, because really i would like to buy DLC..decent dlc content, some fun hourSSSS, for a decent price.

But another thing is what are you asking for. free. EA, Bioware, are bussiness. developes have to win their salaries. We have to be more serious and think in these terms... you dont work for nothing...not me..nobody

Another thing will be what community do. Perhaps DLC could accept some community jobs that had enought qualty..but.. that would crash with bussiness concept of DLC

[Sloth Of Doom]

My internet has been down today and I have been jonesing for a dose of stupidity. Thankfully the first thread I saw was this one.



I'll be the first to sa i think some of Bioware's DLC prices seem a bit high to me, but FREE? Oh hell, yeah, I'd love to have things for free, but WHY would a company do such a thing? This makes no sense at all.



I think Ford should provide free gas for my car in order to support their 'fan'. Also, I want my internet company to pay my electric bill.

[addiction21]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

My internet has been down today and I have been jonesing for a dose of stupidity. Thankfully the first thread I saw was this one.

I'll be the first to sa i think some of Bioware's DLC prices seem a bit high to me, but FREE? Oh hell, yeah, I'd love to have things for free, but WHY would a company do such a thing? This makes no sense at all.

I think Ford should provide free gas for my car in order to support their 'fan'. Also, I want my internet company to pay my electric bill.

LOL Ford. They have not made a good vehicle since the 70's. Hence why I still have my step dads 79 ford ranger F-350 XLT special camper edition. Ya the thing is a beast even rolling it over once and had no dents or dings in the body
But sloth do try to keep in civil there have been several warnings allready. Of course I would not shed a tear over this thread getting locked it is not much more then flame bait.

[soteria]

WarlordThor wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Why does anything cost what it does? Why does a 2 hour movie cost $15 for the ticket? Should tickets for 90-minute movies cost less?

Where in the world does a movie ticket cost $15? They are $9 here and I can easily get them for $7 for matinees or through other discounts. For 2 and a half hours of entertainment compared to 20 minutes to an hour that dlc gives, at comparable prices, yes the dlc seems like a rip.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess Canada.  Probably Canadian dollars, too.  Just... guessing.  You know the maple leaf flag you click on to select English?  Ever wonder why?

[Bibdy]

Battle.net is a free online matchmaking service...not free content. Its no different than the matchmaking service offered by Dawn of War II or Halo 3. Its just a tool to get you to play multiplayer online and costs very little overhead.

Whereas, content from continued expansions and new dungeons etc. in World of Warcraft is by no means free. If you want to play it, you have to fork over $15 a month. You literally cannot enjoy that so-called 'free' content without spending money.

[Dragon Age1103]

David Gaider wrote...

Why does anything cost what it does? Why does a 2 hour movie cost $15 for the ticket? Should tickets for 90-minute movies cost less? I bought lunch yesterday for $16 and it took me about 15 minutes to eat. Yet the last novel I bought cost $12 and lasted me several days. I paid $60 for an HBO DVD set which lasted about 13 hours and considered it money well-spent. Yet I'll pay $5 for a greeting card, $16 for a 30-page adventure that will take my gaming group weeks to get through, $1.95 for a 3-minute song on iTunes and $3.50 for the coffee I had yesterday at Starbuck's.
Do all these things cost according to the time it takes to enjoy them? Of course not. Nothing is priced that way. These things are priced as they are because people are willing to pay that price, because they want it.

If you want to look on a video game -- or any piece of video game content -- as only being worth the amount of time it takes to play, that's totally up to you. For me, I've played 10-hr games that I enjoyed immensely, as well as 50-hr games. Did they roughly cost the same? Sure did. Did I feel ripped off? Not at all. Would I prefer to see longer games? Who wouldn't? The fact that some people could still call even a 30-hr game short (never mind one like DA that lasts anywhere from 40-80 hrs by most peoples' reports) certainly means they aren't comparing it to any other game currently being made, but that's their business.

In the end, you'll pay what you're willing to pay. If something doesn't look like it'll provide you enjoyment, then you shouldn't buy it. If enough people don't buy it, then we're obviously charging too much compared to how much they want it. If enough people do buy it, then we're good. Someone can get outraged if they want, but claiming that something is wrong simply because they do want the extra content but don't want to pay for it says more about their level of entitlement than anything else. In the end, we'll still be providing patches for DA (as we did for NWN, which -- surprise, surprise -- also had the "premium modules" for download) and possibly even some free content. With regards to the DLC, you can buy it or not buy it. The decision is yours, to decide whether it's worth anything to you or how entitled you feel to have it in addition to what came with the original game.

---

And with regards to the general level of rhetoric on this thread, let's keep it down. No personal insults and flaming, please. Consider yourself warned.

   Very well worded as usual Mr.Gaider my only question is why is this thread still up after that? lol By any logic that was a fair arguement & I haven't checked yet but I hope the OP is satisfied with that awesome in depth answer!!!!!!

[Bibdy]

In the end, you'll pay what you're willing to pay

Damn, right! This is the fundamental rule of business. If you folks don't like it, I suggest you get off the internet, move to the countryside, start a farm there and become self-sufficient so you don't have to deal with silly things like the economy.

Complaints about "Oh they're just doing this to get more money from us!" are downright hilarious. NO, ****, SHERLOCK! That's how businesses stay in business. You don't see a price drop on something that's selling well, because the vendors of that item feel guilty. They want your money, and they want it bad. That doesn't mean they don't care what you think, or want. Appealing to what you think or want is PRECISELY how to get your money...welcome to the real world. Time to grow up.

Modifié par Bibdy, 12 janvier 2010 - 06:15 .

[fluffyamoeba]

the lesson I've learned from this thread: bioware should make the main game short, say 6 hours like MW2, and then $5 for an hour's content seems really amazing value for money. If you make the main game long, say 60 hours like dragon age, people will think $5 for an hour's content is expensive.