945 réponses à ce sujet

[Ginasue]

Nor would I bed sad if it was closed down. The age old saying is if you can't say something nice, then don't say nothing at all.

If you want to complain about the cost, send Bioware and EA a message. That won't get you banned.

[Mordaedil]

I find the DLC kinda overpriced, but I got such a good deal on the main game, I'm willing to pay a little more for a little less.



I carry a budget though, Dragon Age is meeting that bill rather handsomely. I reckon by... Spring next year they'll tax out with me. We'll see how frequent this DLC stuff is.

[Timurlane]

soteria wrote...

WarlordThor wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Why does anything cost what it does? Why does a 2 hour movie cost $15 for the ticket? Should tickets for 90-minute movies cost less?

Where in the world does a movie ticket cost $15? They are $9 here and I can easily get them for $7 for matinees or through other discounts. For 2 and a half hours of entertainment compared to 20 minutes to an hour that dlc gives, at comparable prices, yes the dlc seems like a rip.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess Canada.  Probably Canadian dollars, too.  Just... guessing.  You know the maple leaf flag you click on to select English?  Ever wonder why?

Yes, BioWare is based in Canada in Alberta which is our oil province where everything is insanely inflated in price relative to the rest of the country.  Because the cost of living is so much higher there, wages are much higher and so are prices. 

Also Go Oilers Go!

[Sloth Of Doom]

addiction21 wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

My internet has been down today and I have been jonesing for a dose of stupidity. Thankfully the first thread I saw was this one.

I'll be the first to sa i think some of Bioware's DLC prices seem a bit high to me, but FREE? Oh hell, yeah, I'd love to have things for free, but WHY would a company do such a thing? This makes no sense at all.

I think Ford should provide free gas for my car in order to support their 'fan'. Also, I want my internet company to pay my electric bill.

LOL Ford. They have not made a good vehicle since the 70's. Hence why I still have my step dads 79 ford ranger F-350 XLT special camper edition. Ya the thing is a beast even rolling it over once and had no dents or dings in the body
But sloth do try to keep in civil there have been several warnings allready. Of course I would not shed a tear over this thread getting locked it is not much more then flame bait.

Wait...applying the OP's 'logic' to other products is flaming? 

Also, I agr with you about Ford, I don;t actually drive a vehicle right now since the ford Escort I got for free from my last employer decided that the brakes, fuel ine, one piston, the alternator and the electrical system shold all stop working in the same week.

[SirKrowa]

DLC in my opinion is brilliant but if, as previous posts suggest, only 15% of users are purchasing it, then the cost associated with developing it are spread out among a much smaller segment of the player base. This distribution of cost makes it more expensive than it could be if all players who purchased the game were purchasing DLC as well.



DLC overall is also a new concept to games, and as such has growing paints associated with general gamer understanding of what it's role is in the market. Once it becomes common, more people will be purchasing it which in turn will make it cheaper as the cost of making it can be spread out to a larger group.



My personal view on DLC is that it should really be a morphing of the original game experience which would encourage replay. It does not need be just some isolated new level or single quest, but a series of additions that spread across the entire length of the game in a semi-isolated, semi-integrated fashion with the existing content.



This could be hard to achieve but I can see it adding a great deal to the replay value of a single player game. A new party member can be carried through the length of the game which in turn allows for a different experience in all parts of the original plot line. Where I can see more value is to make this new character integral to the main plot at certain key elements and have their presence provide a fork in the story for a little while before you merge back into the original plot.



My 2 cents.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Ginasue wrote...

Nor would I bed sad if it was closed down. The age old saying is if you can't say something nice, then don't say nothing at all.
If you want to complain about the cost, send Bioware and EA a message. That won't get you banned.

That is such a bad adage.   I would never be able to speak at all!

How abut we say, "If you can't speak the truth, don't say anything at all" ?   I like that better.

[addiction21]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

My internet has been down today and I have been jonesing for a dose of stupidity. Thankfully the first thread I saw was this one.

I'll be the first to sa i think some of Bioware's DLC prices seem a bit high to me, but FREE? Oh hell, yeah, I'd love to have things for free, but WHY would a company do such a thing? This makes no sense at all.

I think Ford should provide free gas for my car in order to support their 'fan'. Also, I want my internet company to pay my electric bill.

LOL Ford. They have not made a good vehicle since the 70's. Hence why I still have my step dads 79 ford ranger F-350 XLT special camper edition. Ya the thing is a beast even rolling it over once and had no dents or dings in the body
But sloth do try to keep in civil there have been several warnings allready. Of course I would not shed a tear over this thread getting locked it is not much more then flame bait.

Wait...applying the OP's 'logic' to other products is flaming? 

Also, I agr with you about Ford, I don;t actually drive a vehicle right now since the ford Escort I got for free from my last employer decided that the brakes, fuel ine, one piston, the alternator and the electrical system shold all stop working in the same week.

I was speaking more to your first line no matter how true it could be It did some good for me. After the hot coffee passed thru my nasal passages I now will be smelling caramel all day.

[Losthunter12]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think it's a huge joke for Bioware to charge outrageous amounts of money for so little content. All of them can be finished in less than an hour and their main purpose is not to advance the story in a meaningful way, but to give player extra items. I can admit that Shale was moderately interesting - but then again they're planning on charging $15 for it, which is ridiculous. Don't get me started on RtO - they are basically recycling old stuff and charging for it. Oh wow, it has some new items. How amazing.

I think if the DLC's were free, it would really show commitment and dedication of Bioware to the community and encourage more people to buy this game. I think they could take a page out of Blizzard's book (free battle.net) on how to treat the fans of their game.

to a degree, i see your point. i got the shale DLC for free inside the box, along with the blood dragon armour. neither of them are worth paying for. i unlocked shale within 30 minutes. but if you're talking Awakening, ill sure as hell pay for that. im thinking that is DOA: awakening is a full add-on and not some cheap 1 hour of gameplay, ill pay good money for it hands-down.

[Joshd21]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think it's a huge joke for Bioware to charge outrageous amounts of money for so little content. All of them can be finished in less than an hour and their main purpose is not to advance the story in a meaningful way, but to give player extra items. I can admit that Shale was moderately interesting - but then again they're planning on charging $15 for it, which is ridiculous. Don't get me started on RtO - they are basically recycling old stuff and charging for it. Oh wow, it has some new items. How amazing.

I think if the DLC's were free, it would really show commitment and dedication of Bioware to the community and encourage more people to buy this game. I think they could take a page out of Blizzard's book (free battle.net) on how to treat the fans of their game.

Unlike other companys. Bioware actually puts massive thought into their gameplay to make it interesting. Not for just the first time but several times. Reason RTO was delayed because there was some error in it with the qulaity while could released it as is. They wanted to provide the best for their fans.

This is not Blizzard entertainment. Which I recently canceled my sub after seven years there. Where they throw you half content with barely any storyline to support it. Then the replay on Blizzard is like watching a movie for the 400th time. Even though their dlc is free you pay 15 bucks a month to play the game, 10 bucks a name change, 25 bucks a char transfer, etc

I don't think five bucks is alot of money. I spend more on candy bars then five bucks. What are you willing to pay for people that will create more content. I know I'm willing to pay alot. It's because I enjoy it. Giving fans what they want and being in business while doing it is what makes a keep keep kicking so they can deliver more games. Your option to buy or not to buy.

But if it's on your pc after all this time. Most likely you plan to buy and cared enough to sign up on the forums. You cared enough about the game to check its fourm and to buy

[Zepheera]

David Gaider wrote...

Why does anything cost what it does? Why does a 2 hour movie cost $15 for the ticket? Should tickets for 90-minute movies cost less? I bought lunch yesterday for $16 and it took me about 15 minutes to eat. Yet the last novel I bought cost $12 and lasted me several days. I paid $60 for an HBO DVD set which lasted about 13 hours and considered it money well-spent. Yet I'll pay $5 for a greeting card, $16 for a 30-page adventure that will take my gaming group weeks to get through, $1.95 for a 3-minute song on iTunes and $3.50 for the coffee I had yesterday at Starbuck's.
Do all these things cost according to the time it takes to enjoy them? Of course not. Nothing is priced that way. These things are priced as they are because people are willing to pay that price, because they want it.

If you want to look on a video game -- or any piece of video game content -- as only being worth the amount of time it takes to play, that's totally up to you. For me, I've played 10-hr games that I enjoyed immensely, as well as 50-hr games. Did they roughly cost the same? Sure did. Did I feel ripped off? Not at all. Would I prefer to see longer games? Who wouldn't? The fact that some people could still call even a 30-hr game short (never mind one like DA that lasts anywhere from 40-80 hrs by most peoples' reports) certainly means they aren't comparing it to any other game currently being made, but that's their business.

In the end, you'll pay what you're willing to pay. If something doesn't look like it'll provide you enjoyment, then you shouldn't buy it. If enough people don't buy it, then we're obviously charging too much compared to how much they want it. If enough people do buy it, then we're good. Someone can get outraged if they want, but claiming that something is wrong simply because they do want the extra content but don't want to pay for it says more about their level of entitlement than anything else. In the end, we'll still be providing patches for DA (as we did for NWN, which -- surprise, surprise -- also had the "premium modules" for download) and possibly even some free content. With regards to the DLC, you can buy it or not buy it. The decision is yours, to decide whether it's worth anything to you or how entitled you feel to have it in addition to what came with the original game.

---

And with regards to the general level of rhetoric on this thread, let's keep it down. No personal insults and flaming, please. Consider yourself warned.

This is something I'd love to link to every time I see a new "This costs to much for time played" posts.  I'll buy the DLC knowing that my money is well spent and I'll be getting continuous enjoyment from it. 

Now, if you ever try to sell me for DLC sans voice acting, then we'll have to hire Zevran to show you the error of your ways!

[spearoflight]

To all those people who think the OP is right, if you don't want to pay for additional content then DON'T. Its that simple just don't buy it. Just play the game you paid for,



Its not like the game requires you to buy the DLC to keep playing, or you need to DLC to use the Expansion Pack.

[xka]

fluffyamoeba wrote...

the lesson I've learned from this thread: bioware should make the main game short, say 6 hours like MW2, and then $5 for an hour's content seems really amazing value for money. If you make the main game long, say 60 hours like dragon age, people will think $5 for an hour's content is expensive.

Dont make me "laugh"...

You can consider of course, that 5€ for 1 hour game is cheap, but then be consecuent, and say that original DaO should cost 100-200 or 300 €. We are speaking about cost and a product, fixed cost, and variable cost..that s the point.  Do you really think that a developer will confide (to gain profit)  to dlc downloads and sell original game cheaper because of this?...ho ho ho ho ..what a christma's spirit.

Of course, if i were bioware, seeing pople so happy like you, i would put dlc not to 5$ or 5€... 10 or 15 better.
Well.. we will see expansion price..what laughts we will have...

We could say that they are retrieving us every time, every DLC,  cost that original DAO, that with its CD and manual, hadn't in proportion. From a bussines view its great, i aplausse EA and bioware; selling one time and another and another fixed cost theorically amortized in original game. Yes yes i know there is more cost, but in proportion, i dont see accounts..well, perhaps im missed, or perhaps i can only aplausse again to EA for bussiness. I repeat, seeing so many happy people, put it at 10 $, in all, a lot of services cost that price. Or why not to 20$..if you go to a cinema and buy a coke and popcorn, its similar, its viable..

But no problem.. smile, because its "cheap".  We should speak with book's editor...they are loosing a lot of money seeing things like im seeing in threads of this type.

[xka]

spearoflight wrote...

To all those people who think the OP is right, if you don't want to pay for additional content then DON'T. Its that simple just don't buy it. Just play the game you paid for,

Its not like the game requires you to buy the DLC to keep playing, or you need to DLC to use the Expansion Pack.

Of course man, of course...

But i love DAO, i would like to buy DLC, expansions...etc..I have enjoyed a lot with this game..and im dissapointed with this politics. We are only discussing about this point..no more

[SheffSteel]

When businesses sell premium products, they do so at a price point that makes sense to them, having considered their costs and projected supply/demand figures. If you think a particular product is too expensive, that is because you are in a lower market segment than the one the premium material is aimed at. No need to feel bad about that - just stick to the value-oriented stuff. In this case, that means the main game and Awakening.

[Magic Zarim]

enderrwigginn wrote...

ok i also play wow but you get free patches becuase we pay $15 a mounth bioware isnt goin to spend hours apon hours to make some thing and not get any thing out of it but the appreciation of the fans that would be rediculus

Concept of "Reap what you sow". By no means I am saying DA DLC should be free, but if it was, it would be a massive lasting product support builder. Not just to fans, also to new players to the genre/franchise. Things like this garner customer repect and THAT is what makes customers come back and pay attention to $$ vs X a whole let less.

Blizzard has this status with me. CD Projekt has this status with me. No other publisher/studio has. Any products I like of the aforementioned companies I would buy without hesitation.

Modifié par Magic Zarim, 12 janvier 2010 - 06:58 .

[VanDraegon]

Free stuff has a long history of paying the bills....

[Solmenir]

I have to agree with the poster about the overpriced DLC-s. Yes, after the disappointment of Warden's Keep, I'll very likely won't buy RtO, but I still got an opinion about it. When I buy a game, or a dlc, I would like to see real content - gameplay, fights, explorations, quests, whatever. But so far dlcs did not really give such things, only new, (over)powerful abilities and items, and I do got the feeling that I'm actually buying items or abilities instead of new adventures. And I think this is wrong, I really wouldn't mind paying for dlcs with at least 3-4 hours of gameplay, what is still quite low compared to the original one's gameplay time, but paying for new abilities or items is just stupid in my opinion.

[Wozearly]

fluffyamoeba wrote...

the lesson I've learned from this thread: bioware should make the main game short, say 6 hours like MW2, and then $5 for an hour's content seems really amazing value for money. If you make the main game long, say 60 hours like dragon age, people will think $5 for an hour's content is expensive.

Kinda spins back to the point I was making (or trying to make). If you cut down the size and content of the main game, you might well be pressured to drop its price tag accordingly as otherwise its likely players would give you feedback in one way or another that it was overpriced. 

On the plus side, there'd be more capacity to do this, since it costs less to make a small game than a large one - on the down side, if you've only engaged with a game for, say, 5 hours then you're less likely to pay $5 to extend playtime by, say, one hour than you would if you've engaged with it for 60 hours and with that amount of time investment, presumably have really enjoyed the experience.

The cost / entertainment value trade-off will happen irrespective of how things are priced, or whether you're comparing single-player games to MMOs, video games to beer in a pub, etc. In economics, its called opportunity cost - with scarce resource (money), we in principle act as rational creatures to maximise our enjoyment and so will spend accordingly. In reality, we make a lot of  subjective judgements and generally struggle to convert entertainment reliably into rational, comparable alternatives and weigh up the costs accurately before the event. David Gaider's various examples put that into a nice perspective.

The upshot of this is that if DA:O had shipped with, say, the entire Brecilian Forest section removed then we wouldn't have been storming the forums demanding that the game be priced $10 cheaper because it only took us 50 hours to complete, and we all would have almost certainly bought it anyway. Probably more for a Brecilian Forest DLC that integrated seamlessly into the main campaign.

Does that leave us players open to exploitation? Yes and no. Yes in the short-term, but mercilessly charging for lots of DLC can only be extended so far. Paid-for DLC is a two-way thing, as it requires player support and engagement as well as just developer time to produce. If a significant number of players feel developers are taking the mick with their approach to DLC, it'll undermine that support and ultimately cause DLCs to be loss-making when too few people buy it...as that player-driven support is critical to the paid-for DLC model working, trying to milk it for all its worth and eroding players' desire to engage with the model would be incredibly short-sighted and even a hard-nosed businessman should be able to see that.

Plus, perhaps much more importantly, I don't believe that Bioware's individual employees wake up every day with profit maximisation in their heads, and I doubt that this is what motivates them to create games like Dragon Age. I admit that I'm a fan of DA:O and other Bioware games but I don't think its rose tinted spectacle that leads me to feel I can trust that the DLC will be worth paying for.

We can argue philosophically or economically whether paid-for DLC is the best route to use, but if we assume Bioware's costs are what they are and that these are 'normal' for the quality of game produced and profit return required, and that those can't be changed, then all we're talking about is how we change where the costs appear. To make free DLC work under those constraints, I still feel you're talking about raising the original game price to fund it. As that hits people irrespective of which DLC they would want and removes the incentive to produce lots of 'free' DLC because it'll all eat away at the money taken in without generating any value, I personally feel that's neither a fair solution to players or a practical solution for Bioware.

On the other hand, under the paid-for model, not only did we have Stone Prisoner able to be included shortly after release rather than dropped entirely to meet the release deadline, not only did we have Warden's Keep available in very short order after release, not only do we have Return to Ostagar approach official release barely a few months after the game's launch, but we also have an official expansion happening in less than a year from launch.

I don't think we'd have fared anywhere near as well under a free DLC model, and I think some of those proposing the free DLC model have taken that for granted.

How would I do free content, speaking as a marketer myself? I'd release a bit of free DLC for DA:O a month or two before the release of DA:O2 to get us back into playing in the world and help with hype. The rest would be paid for, and of high quality - as the original game was.

[/end horribly lengthy post]

[LarryDavid]

I think DA:O as well as the DLC is way underpriced. I really enjoy the content and it kinda makes me feel cheap that I only had to pay a handful of dollars for it.

[bjdbwea]

I have never bought DLC and will never buy DLC like that which is available for DA so far, but I wouldn't even think of demanding them to release it for free.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 12 janvier 2010 - 07:15 .

[SheffSteel]

Another way of looking at this:-
Bioware has to decide whether to sell Return to Ostagar for $5 or make it free.
If, for every eight people - who would never have bought Awakening - more than one was convinced to buy Awakening as a result of RtO being free, then it was worthwhile.
If, for every ten people downloading RtO for free, more than one either persuaded a friend to buy the game new, or was persuaded to buy a different Bioware game new - provided that none of these people would have been persuaded if RtO wasn't free - again it was worthwhile.
I can't think of any other mechanism that allows Bioware to get that money back.
Hopefully this makes it clear why Bioware is unwilling to gamble on free DLC.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 12 janvier 2010 - 07:26 .

[Circaxx]

if you can't afford to buy down loadable content your playing the wrong game in my opinion

[Sloth Of Doom]

bjdbwea wrote...

I have never bought DLC and will never buy DLC like that which is available for DA so far, but I wouldn't even think of demanding them to release it for free.

See...this is the sign of a reasonable person.   Not worth it to you?  Don't buy it.  it seems so simple and yet so many people can't comprehend it.

[axan22]

As long as the DLC is not over priced or inferior quality then i will continue to buy the DLC asap, i liked the wardens keep and Stone Prisoner and cant wait for RTO and the expansion, if people think DLC should be free then why should Bioware make it ( no offence to bioware but they dont make games out of the goodness of the heart) they make them to make money, and as long as I think I am getting value for money then i will continue to buy it. At least in this way we know what we are getting for out money, in some other game we may pay for on a more regular basis we may or may not get new content but contine to pay.

[Deathstyk85]

They are not free cause it costs money to make duh. Why does your job pay you for working? Shouldn't you just work for free? One growing problem today is people taking things for granted. A free bonus to a game used to be unheard of. Now people **** and moan when they have to pay anything extra for extra content. I mean, what makes you so special that they shouldn't get paid for their hard work, and you should just get free content? Games like wow can make free content patches, because you pay a monthly fee. Wich helps fund those patches. So not even those are free. But then again, with a name like "wowpwnslol" I couldn't expect you to think that much.