73 réponses à ce sujet

[CaveGnome]

henesua wrote...

Feedback is a give and take between participants primarily.

In the meantime, if you made a module, I encourage you to play others and give feedback. Typically the others will be shamed/guilted encouraged by your gesture into reciprocating.

I know... It was (and is) my intention to play other modules and report, but as i previously sayed not before mid-April (some urgent work to do IRL). I just barely cobbled the OEWTP 0.55 version who will appear soon when approved on the vault, but i have no time for play next week or so .

[CaveGnome]

Here is the link to One-Eyed Wolf Trading Post ver. 055 at the vault.

nwvault.ign.com/View.php

Modifié par CaveGnome, 09 avril 2013 - 06:51 .

[MagicalMaster]

I gave OEWTP a good faith effort...but your mod is broken.

I cannot find the native camp and gave up after an hour.  I initially established a search grid - went 3 km east of the post and went north 7 km.  Then east 1 km and back south to the road.  Then east 1 km and north 7 km.  Then east 1 km and back south to the road.

Feeling quite frustrated, I went back to the post to examine the mushroom.  Following the instructions on it, I went north 3 km, then east 1 km, south 1 km, east 1 km, north 3 km, east 1 km, south 3 km.

Nothing.

I did notice an oddity twice while searching - I went into an area transition and a new area loaded.  Then immediately a SECOND new area loaded without me doing anything.  That might have been me finding the camp and then getting teleported out for some reason or something.

But...yeah, nothing.

Other notes I took while playing...

- Quite a few typos - if you intend to polish it, should look at those
- Not fond of the choice at the beginning - primarily because you don't get enough information about it. Should tell people about the discount and money received BEFORE they have to choose
- Why does the explored area on the map keep resetting?  Extremely annoying because the whole idea of areas in NWN is already a game limitation - resetting the map drives this point home and makes it even worse
- Since apparently you were trying to set areas up as actually being "realistic," I decided to see how far west I could go along the road.  Except the first few areas seemed awfully similar.  So I dropped a potion bottle next to a signpost.  Imagine my surprise when I ran across the same potion bottle further "west" of where I dropped it.  And then when I went east of the trading post, I found the same bottle.  If you want to try to make exploration realistic and actually have areas that correspond to each other, you can't do things like that.  It ruins it.
- Need to give creatures either Improved Unarmed Strike or Creature Weapons so they don't give Attacks of Opportunity when meleeing

[CaveGnome]

MagicalMaster wrote...

I gave OEWTP a good faith effort...but your mod is broken.

Sorry to hear that and thanks for your patience... I know, testing alphas and betas can be frustrating at times

I cannot find the native camp and gave up after an hour.  I initially established a search grid - went 3 km east of the post and went north 7 km.  Then east 1 km and back south to the road.  Then east 1 km and north 7 km.  Then east 1 km and back south to the road.

Feeling quite frustrated, I went back to the post to examine
the mushroom.  Following the instructions on it, I went north 3 km, then
east 1 km, south 1 km, east 1 km, north 3 km, east 1 km, south 3 km. Nothing.

Hmm... I completed the module from start to end 4 times with no major problem. And in my experience, finding the native camp is easy (finding the "land of Ka" is harder but i have done it without cheating 2 times) but as i am the designer, i supose i am biased...

I suspect we have here a problem understanding the coords system. If you used Thomas hints on the native camp it's completely impossible to have a camp 7 km north (when he says 3 km or more north, it means really that the camp is at 3, 4 or 5 km north max. The camp can't be at more than Y= +5 north by design). Ok, i will explain how it works, perhaps this will clarify the matter... After all, this is an alpha test module ;-) But i will put more precise help in next module iteration.

<Spoilers ahead>

The module is generated dynamicly (if you know about RDG9F or infinite dungeons, this works on the same principle). In fact the "native camp" and the "land of ka" position are randomly calculated at every new game start. and the system fills the land between these and the Trading Post with the needed number of forest areas reusing a limited set of forest areas. The problem and interest is that the forest is virtually unlimited (in fact there is a limit, but it's big) as the only fixed positions are: trade post, native camp, land of Ka. The player can be lost easily, obviously, too easily... It is why i was planning a "autocompas item", but i will need more time to script this, sorry.

The "Trading post" serves as an anchor and is ALWAYS at position X = 0 and Y = 0. One area deplacement counts for 1 km in the X or Y axis.

Departing from the Trading post, if we go WEST, we decrement X coordinate. The first area WEST of T.P. is at pos X = -1, Y = 0 and so on. If we continue the walk WEST, the 69th "forest road" area will be at X = -69, Y = 0. Being there, now we go EAST one area, we enter "forest road" X = -68, Y = 0 and the signpost reads "T.P. direction East, distance: 68 km". If starting from the Trading P. we go EAST, we increment X and will enter "forest road" area X = +1 Y = 0. Note that you can't have negative Y. When you reach the road or the T.P. you reach always an Y = 0 area. But Y can go positive to big numbers.

In the v.050 and v.055 game:  the "native camp" random generator creates coords in a boundary from:
[X = -2 to X = +2 including X =0] AND [Y from Y = +2 to Y = +5]. So you have 20 coords possibilities.

The "Land of Ka" is created in the boundary [X =-3 to X =+3 including X = 0] AND [Y = +7 to Y = +9].  21 possibilities.

<Spoiler End>

I did notice an oddity twice while searching - I went into an area transition and a new area loaded.  Then immediately a SECOND new area loaded without me doing anything.  That might have been me finding the camp and then getting teleported out for some reason or something.

But...yeah, nothing.

Hmm... This is not intended behaviour, probably a bug (not sure i parse multiple clicks on the area transitions).

Other notes I took while playing...

- Quite a few typos - if you intend to polish it, should look at those
- Not fond of the choice at the beginning - primarily because you don't get enough information about it. Should tell people about the discount and money received BEFORE they have to choose
- Why does the explored area on the map keep resetting?  Extremely annoying because the whole idea of areas in NWN is already a game limitation - resetting the map drives this point home and makes it even worse
- Since apparently you were trying to set areas up as actually being "realistic," I decided to see how far west I could go along the road.  Except the first few areas seemed awfully similar.  So I dropped a potion bottle next to a signpost.  Imagine my surprise when I ran across the same potion bottle further "west" of where I dropped it.  And then when I went east of the trading post, I found the same bottle.  If you want to try to make exploration realistic and actually have areas that correspond to each other, you can't do things like that.  It ruins it.
- Need to give creatures either Improved Unarmed Strike or Creature Weapons so they don't give Attacks of Opportunity when meleeing

- Yes, typos where expected (english is not my native language). Will spellcheck the convs in next version.
- I understand your opinion on the info for the discount and room but not the money received (it's clear before the choice that you get 4000 if you sell, and you have a possibility to abort at the last moment if you change mind). And for me, the story goes as this... Eroud is trying to play dirty to buy the shares and he don't want to give all the good info bits to Sigismund nephew or niece.
- For the "explored map area resetting" it was a poor attempt to hide the fact i was reusing the same areas again and again and again I will try to find something better...
- See "spoiler details" for why the areas seemed awfully similar (in a sense, i am happy that the mod could trick you, this is a good sign). In the future, i intend to implement a random placeable system to introduce more variety in every new area.
- I was aware of the problem, but because of the creation time constraints, the module doesn't yet destroy abandoned items when you exit an area.
- Good idea. For now the animal/creature system is very minimal, but i will try to improve it.

Many thanks for your input, that's very helpful.

CG


PS: Did you play the 0.5 version? (because this version has a bug on Thomas "native camp hints", when he must say "North", an empty string appears (my fault, a token problem) but that's corrected on the 0.55.

Modifié par CaveGnome, 11 avril 2013 - 12:59 .

[MagicalMaster]

CaveGnome wrote...

I suspect we have here a problem understanding the coords system. If you used Thomas hints on the native camp it's completely impossible to have a camp 7 km north (when he says 3 km or more north, it means really that the camp is at 3, 4 or 5 km north max. The camp can't be at more than Y= +5 north by design). Ok, i will explain how it works, perhaps this will clarify the matter... After all, this is an alpha test module ;-) But i will put more precise help in next module iteration.

I understand the coordinate system.  My point was that I searched a massive area LARGER than what should have been possible (in case you were off by 1 km or something) and STILL couldn't find it.  I pretty much wound up searching everything in a 7 x 7 grid with the trading post at the southwest corner.

Maybe I need to make a Paint diagram or something.

And yes, I was going by what Thomas said and then by what the shroom said.

CaveGnome wrote...

The player can be lost easily, obviously, too easily... It is why i was planning a "autocompas item", but i will need more time to script this, sorry.

The way I avoided getting lost was remembering that I could always go south to the road, and then use the sign to find where I was in relation to the trading post.

CaveGnome wrote...

In the v.050 and v.055 game:  the "native camp" random generator creates coords in a boundary from:
[X = -2 to X = +2 including X =0] AND [Y from Y = +2 to Y = +5]. So you have 20 coords possibilities.

If X can be -2 or -1, that means it can be WEST from the camp.  When you tell the player it's northEAST.

CaveGnome wrote...

Hmm... This is not intended behaviour, probably a bug (not sure i parse multiple clicks on the area transitions).

Might want to check the transition for the native camp - semi wondering if I stumbled across it and got teleported out.

CaveGnome wrote...

- I understand your opinion on the info for the discount and room but not the money received (it's clear before the choice that you get 4000 if you sell, and you have a possibility to abort at the last moment if you change mind).

I know you find out about the 4000, I meant that you should include both, not just one.

CaveGnome wrote...

And for me, the story goes as this... Eroud is trying to play dirty to buy the shares and he don't want to give all the good info bits to Sigismund nephew or niece.

Would you EVER accept a job without at least vaguely knowing what it entails?  Even just him saying "You're responsible for gathering furs and such and get a cut of the profits of the furs you sell to me" would help.  Right now it looks like a choice between 4000g and nothing, not 4000g and something that might bring some income in.  He doesn't have to mention the free room (and could skip the discount), but he should say SOMETHING about the job (or at least give some general details if you press him on it).

CaveGnome wrote...

- For the "explored map area resetting" it was a poor attempt to hide the fact i was reusing the same areas again and again and again I will try to find something better...
- See "spoiler details" for why the areas seemed awfully similar (in a sense, i am happy that the mod could trick you, this is a good sign). In the future, i intend to implement a random placeable system to introduce more variety in every new area.

It tricked me for about three areas, I grew very suspicious when I noticed the sign gave the info in a pop up instead of being something I could examine.

Is there a problem with just having the areas revealed at the start?  Could even hide it in "unique" areas where you don't want players to see something in the terrain area of time.

CaveGnome wrote...

- I was aware of the problem, but because of the creation time constraints, the module doesn't yet destroy abandoned items when you exit an area.

A way to keep track of where you are would be to leave a trail of items behind you so you can retrace your path (since you can't cut down a bush or break a tree branch or scuff up a trail).  Destroying them make that not possible (though obviously it's not possible anyway since you're not actually using a legitimate path, I guess, but it breaks the illusion even further).

CaveGnome wrote...

PS: Did you play the 0.5 version? (because this version has a bug on Thomas "native camp hints", when he must say "North", an empty string appears (my fault, a token problem) but that's corrected on the 0.55.

No, 0.55.

[MagicalMaster]

Just checked 6 north for both x = -1 and x = -2. Nothing.

Feeling very suspicious about that double area transition that I encountered twice.

Modifié par MagicalMaster, 11 avril 2013 - 02:44 .

[CaveGnome]

MagicalMaster wrote...
I understand the coordinate system.  My point was that I searched a massive area LARGER than what should have been possible (in case you were off by 1 km or something) and STILL couldn't find it.  I pretty much wound up searching everything in a 7 x 7 grid with the trading post at the southwest corner.

And yes, I was going by what Thomas said and then by what the shroom said.

Ok, i see that you understand X, Y coords system. But as X going negative to the left of origin is not the common form, i thinked it was interesting to point it for other (stranded?) players reference. In v0.55 Thomas is right about what he says, just a little imprecise, but next version will have better Thomas hints. The shroom indications corresponds to the real locations where you find the "special areas".

Might want to check the transition for the native camp - semi wondering if I stumbled across it and got teleported out.

If X can be -2 or -1, that means it can be WEST from the camp.  When you tell the player it's northEAST.

Just checked 6 north for both x = -1 and x = -2. Nothing.

Feeling very suspicious about that double area transition that I encountered twice.

I have tested the 8 transition areas intensively with no special problem. To date, i have done 4 more times the game from start to end without reproducing your specific problem. Very strange... If X is -2 or -1 it means it's North-West from the Trading Post ("camp" or "ka sacred land" can't be pure West or East). As far as i tested for negative X, Thomas always says North-West.

I have been thinking about your problem, perhaps you have a initial PC start location glitch. Because, location, token and journal inits are done at start when the PC is materialised in the trigger in front of the Trading Post signpost . If the PC is not initialy in this trigger, this could lead to big problems.

As of the double area transition, i don't understand. I tried to reproduce it with no sucess. It could be interesting to have feedback from other players to learn if it's a specific or general problem.

I know you find out about the 4000, I meant that you should include both, not just one.

Would you EVER accept a job without at least vaguely knowing what it entails?  Even just him saying "You're responsible for gathering furs and such and get a cut of the profits of the furs you sell to me" would help.  Right now it looks like a choice between 4000g and nothing, not 4000g and something that might bring some income in.  He doesn't have to mention the free room (and could skip the discount), but he should say SOMETHING about the job (or at least give some general details if you press him on it).

From a player's perspective, i think you are right. I modified Eroud conversation to something like what you suggested.

Is there a problem with just having the areas revealed at the start?  Could even hide it in "unique" areas where you don't want players to see something in the terrain area of time.

I don't know. I need to try this idea, but it's a good suggestion.

A way to keep track of where you are would be to leave a trail of items behind you so you can retrace your path (since you can't cut down a bush or break a tree branch or scuff up a trail).  Destroying them make that not possible (though obviously it's not possible anyway since you're not actually using a legitimate path, I guess, but it breaks the illusion even further).

I know... I have been using these sort of tricks too . For now, i have implemented the "wiping script" in the dev version that destroys all items abandoned in the area you leave (an imperfect  progress, but a progress). I am thinking about a more realist system who will be able to save and restore at the right places and right areas, items lost (intentionaly) by the PC, but it is a script intensive task and not high priority.

[MagicalMaster]

CaveGnome wrote...

Ok, i see that you understand X, Y coords system. But as X going negative to the left of origin is not the common form

Huh?  You learn in, like, pre-algebra about a Cartesian coordinate system where -X is left, +X is right, -Y is down, +Y is up.

CaveGnome wrote...

If X is -2 or -1 it means it's North-West from the Trading Post ("camp" or "ka sacred land" can't be pure West or East). As far as i tested for negative X, Thomas always says North-West.

Oh, so you're saying that if it actually is Northwest instead of Northeast he'll update his dialogue?  I thought he always said Northeast and then you were actually possibly making it Northwest, which is why I was annoyed.

CaveGnome wrote...
I know... I have been using these sort of tricks too . For now, i have implemented the "wiping script" in the dev version that destroys all items abandoned in the area you leave (an imperfect  progress, but a progress). I am thinking about a more realist system who will be able to save and restore at the right places and right areas, items lost (intentionaly) by the PC, but it is a script intensive task and not high priority.

Yeah, given what you're doing leaving a trail would be very difficult.  I think making a "compass" that always told you what direction the Trading Post was at would be sufficient (with the possible answers being East, Southeast, South, Southwest, or West).

CaveGnome wrote...

As of the double area transition, i don't understand. I tried to
reproduce it with no sucess. It could be interesting to have feedback
from other players to learn if it's a specific or general problem.

Well, third time's the charm, so I went and tried to reproduce it myself.  Except now I do actually load into the native camp (3 north and 1 east from trading post).  Not sure what's going on.  Easy to assume I messed something up except I'm finding it difficult to believe I messed up a simple grid search not only once but *twice.*

Found Ka at 7 north, 0 east.  If I hadn't known from this post that it was between -3 and 3 for X and 7 to 9 for Y I probably would have not bothered - I don't think many players want to potentially search something like a 10x10 grid.

What level did you expect players to find Ka at?  I was level 4.

What did you expect players to do with Ju-Ju?  He did about half my health in damage with one Call Lightning (and there are no healing potions in stores) so I ran all the way back to the trading post, rested, and then went and killed him.  Also, what are you expecting players to do with the shadows?  They have 5 damage reduction, which means many classes will find it extraordinarly difficult to harm them (especially once strength has been drained).

[MagicalMaster]

So...Cave Defense.

Interesting idea, never considered making a tower defense game in NWN.

The evil wolf and giant spider are hostile, though.

Tutorial dialogue option also does nothing.

If your minions run through the door to fight the adventurers and you follow them to loot, you get trapped on the other side of the door.

Waves just seem to repeat the exact same thing endlessly.

Not clear where enemies are coming from or what you have to defend.

Wound up beating all three levels, huzzah. Poor Thorin.

[CaveGnome]

MagicalMaster wrote...

Oh, so you're saying that if it actually is Northwest instead of Northeast he'll update his dialogue?  I thought he always said Northeast and then you were actually possibly making it Northwest, which is why I was annoyed.

Yes. I use tokens in my convs to change text on the fly. If the module invents a NorthWest loc., Thomas will say NW and if its NE, he will say NE. If you play a female, the conv will say "niece" and "nephew" if male... Its a very powerful function. You can adapt convs without having to make lots of text branchs, just change the words you need when needed.

Yeah, given what you're doing leaving a trail would be very difficult.  I think making a "compass" that always told you what direction the Trading Post was at would be sufficient (with the possible answers being East, Southeast, South, Southwest, or West).

The compass is simpler to make. I have not decided exactly how it will work. I have two basic ideas: a system like the one you suggest (giving the T. Post direction) or a system storing the full path from the Trading Post and able to play the path in reverse. Thinking of it, leaving items on virtual areas and later retrieving then would also be cool.

Well, third time's the charm, so I went and tried to reproduce it myself.  Except now I do actually load into the native camp (3 north and 1 east from trading post).  Not sure what's going on.  Easy to assume I messed something up except I'm finding it difficult to believe I messed up a simple grid search not only once but *twice.*

Found Ka at 7 north, 0 east.  If I hadn't known from this post that it was between -3 and 3 for X and 7 to 9 for Y I probably would have not bothered - I don't think many players want to potentially search something like a 10x10 grid.

What level did you expect players to find Ka at?  I was level 4.

What did you expect players to do with Ju-Ju?  He did about half my health in damage with one Call Lightning (and there are no healing potions in stores) so I ran all the way back to the trading post, rested, and then went and killed him.  Also, what are you expecting players to do with the shadows?  They have 5 damage reduction, which means many classes will find it extraordinarly difficult to harm them (especially once strength has been drained).

I am happy you succeded, whatever the problem was. Yes, Ka sacred land is hard to find. Perhaps, i will make Chellec give better location info, like Thomas does. I expected players to find Ka between level 3 and 5 (ending game with a level 3 in stealth mode is doable, but i need a lvl 4 if fighting my way).

<Spoiler>
Ju-Ju story is not completly implemented. There will be 3 paths: Revenge, Respect the Ju-Ju, Avoid the Ju-Ju. And the player will have different choices giving different ends and the Ju-Ju will have more power and a better AI.

Shadows? For now, flee and run away. Yes, for some classes they are
difficult (or impossible) to kill, but Chellec will have a solution in
the future.
<End Spoiler>

Lack of healing potions is a design choice, but you have healing kits at your disposal. I think this is a more realistic choice for a trapper / hunter story.

Modifié par CaveGnome, 18 avril 2013 - 12:16 .

[CaveGnome]

Jackkel Dragon Cave Defense

This is the 1st March ABC module of a fellow builder i try. As the autor hints, game is incomplete but playable and i think it has a lot of potential. I liked the concept (not too surprising, being a big Dungeon Keeper 1 & 2 fan) and discovering a Nwn effort in this direction was a real boon.

Playing a goblin character was fun but the transformation is, halas, incomplete. It's strange to choose a human paladin and transform in goblin retaining all the paladin stats. Goblin portrait and goblin voice is lacking, providing a prefab custom goblin character would surely help.

When you begin the game your PC is stripped and you are completely naked. I have nothing against that, but the problem is the stripping routine activates at every starting game. And not only strips items, but it makes the PC level 1, including in the case you load an old saved game! It's frustrating to lose a fully equiped level 4 goblin chief, because you stopped playing and count on later reloading after a break. At least, this point would have to be explained in the ReadMe.

I like the summoning figurines. Being almost only whistles, maybe you could use the Nwn whistle sound when they are activated :-) Some of these magical allies have a faction problem and (unintendly i suppose) are hostile to your Goblin army chief: the Wolf, Spider, fire-spitting beetle. I was able to deploy (and recover) cool trap launchers but not to use them, some instructions would be very welcome.

A problem i see is the lack of a method to position or move your troops once they are invoqued. Perhaps something like an attractor item or a rallying placeable flag you could activate/desactivate. And what about special placeables with orders? "if no fight, follow leader","stay here and defend","flee to goblin master if heavy wounded", etc.
 
I don't like the opening door choice for the greedy adventurers irruption. Something like adventurers smashing doors to enter goblin world would be incredibly better. Make these doors one way openable to permit exit after goblin victory if you pass throu these doors into the adventurers entry area. When changing to a new area to defend, your goblin chief loses all his invoqued army. I was expecting some sort of bonus proportional to the peon army remaining (gold, free figurines, chocolate cookies...).

update: I discovered that you can return freely to what area you like and that your faithful old troops await you there. As they can be deployed/repacked at will, launchers are transportable between areas.

Healing your soldiers is only possible with your own spells or healthkits. What about a "zone mass healing placeable" idea? The bonus level is hard, and my goblin chief was completely steamrolled by the evil dwarfs and their chief. In defeat, i discovered that the "respawn" option was totally unusable. What about a safe haven respawn point, from where you could plan a counter-attack? And what do you protect? It would be good to see something behind the protected doors (a full treasure room or...) or have a text explaining what you have to protect (there's a goblin child school, one year of grain food to feed starving goblin people, etc.) and why it's important. There are many good ideas in this module, and playing it, even in a cripled mode was interesting and amusing.

Modifié par CaveGnome, 23 avril 2013 - 10:23 .

[MagicalMaster]

CaveGnome wrote...

Healing your soldiers is only possible with your own spells or healthkits.

It's not worth doing. New solider costs 8g, healing kit costs like 60.

If you want to beat the dwarfs, you'll probably need to defeat a few rounds and stock up on gold - you probably need to spend 150-225g on the dwarfs. Basically just get a some orcs to act as meatshields and then tons of goblin archers. Can make a video if you're curious.

[CaveGnome]

MagicalMaster wrote...

CaveGnome wrote...

Healing your soldiers is only possible with your own spells or healthkits.

It's not worth doing. New solider costs 8g, healing kit costs like 60.

If you want to beat the dwarfs, you'll probably need to defeat a few rounds and stock up on gold - you probably need to spend 150-225g on the dwarfs. Basically just get a some orcs to act as meatshields and then tons of goblin archers. Can make a video if you're curious.

Yes, not worth doing... If it's not to tedious to do the video, you are right. I am curious to see how to beat those bloodthirsrty dwarfs.

[MagicalMaster]

Editing/uploading video atm.

Also, I was slightly wrong - first time I recorded for the video I spent about 225g and lost. Did it again with 400gish and had nearly 50% of my units survive. So probably need like a minimum of 300g or so.

However, considering you can get 75g every 30-60 seconds once you set up properly in the first zone...

[MagicalMaster]

Video is up.

[CaveGnome]

MagicalMaster wrote...

Editing/uploading video atm.

Also, I was slightly wrong - first time I recorded for the video I spent about 225g and lost. Did it again with 400gish and had nearly 50% of my units survive. So probably need like a minimum of 300g or so.

However, considering you can get 75g every 30-60 seconds once you set up properly in the first zone...

Thanks for the video. It motivated me to give the module a second try. With 1000g of troops i was able to vanquish the dwarf army 2 times and finish with perhaps 20 goblin archers and 3 or 4 brutes. And yeah, minion invoking time is painfully long when you need an army (perhaps Jackkel Dragon could improve this).

In not related news: compass working in my dev OEWTP module,  at last

[jackkel dragon]

I come back to check on the ABC in passing and I find a 10-minute strategy video of a module I never quite finished... I feel obligated to fix the myriad problems with the game now!

While I'm here, some answers to specific critiques:

Goblin PC Transform: Okay, I was straight-up lazy here and really just changed the PC appearance index. There's no way in base NWN scripting to change a voiceset, but I really should at least update the portrait...

Goblin PC class and Item Strip: Item strip on enter is intentional, on load is a HUGE bug. It's easy to get around that by grinding the easy first area or granting gold from the console, but that is going to be fixed the moment I get back to this project. As for not including a premade/allowing human classes, I wanted to let the player play a class they were comfortable with rather than force them to multiclass from a premade. I suppose I could have a premade with 1 level in commoner and start the game with 1000 XP, though... I'll think about it. (This could also solve the voiceset limitation...)

Whistles: I didn't even know that NWN had a whistle sound effect... I'll have to look into that. Most of the items were actually made into whistles because A) it made sense and I didn't find any other icons I could make an excuse for when it came to goblins and orcs. (Thanks for pointing out the faction problem, by the way. Didn't catch that before.)

Commands: I think it would be important to implement some commands to allow you to move allies after summoning them... I'm still thinking on how to do that in a way that is quick enough for combat yet still allowing for precision (not having all allies move to a single command).

Doors: I specifically made sure you can't enter the spawn areas after each match because I found that it was possible to set up launchers to insta-kill spawning adventurers, which kinda defeats the purpose of the module (though you can still set up in front of the doors, I guess...)

No Benefit for Remaining Forces: This was mostly laziness... I didn't come up with a way to reward the player for having any traps/allies left when combat ended. Since I also let the player keep them around for replays of that map, that might not be a bad thing... we'll see.

Healing Placeable: If I can figure that out, that might be a good idea... I might make it a creature, though. That way the enemy team will actively try to get rid of it, and I don't have to script a fancy AoE heal from the placeable (it can just use existing spells).

Respawn: Another victim of lazy design that has to be remedied. I think the starting area actually has a special respawn point (if I didn't delete it...) away from where the action usually takes place, but I never made one for the other areas. I'll need to work on that...

Reasons: I'm not sure how I'll implement the backstory for why the goblins are defending these zones (the "Guiding Voice" is an apathetic jerk in the original version), but I'll think about it.

Anyway, thanks for the review. I'm kinda busy between another game project and my mini-novel, but I'll definately have to fix up this module for a more "complete" release sometime.

P.S: I never beat the Hobbit bonus level on my own testing time. Since only Thorin despawns upon losing due to a bug I couldn't figure out, I got tired of trying.

Edit: I almost forgot to comment on the launchers: they're useless on their own. You also need to buy and set up the trap triggers (tripwires and sigils) and make sure the launcher is facing and has line of sight to the triggers.

Edit 2: After watching the video, I now feel the urge to find a way to shorten summoning wait times... I forgot how long 6 seconds was after an instant cast. I also think I'll need to buff the traps/launchers and lower the price for them... Goblin Sharpshooters look OP next to the wimpy standard arrow trap (1d6 damage, fires only once).

Modifié par jackkel dragon, 24 avril 2013 - 01:40 .

[MagicalMaster]

jackkel dragon wrote...

Doors: I specifically made sure you can't enter the spawn areas after each match because I found that it was possible to set up launchers to insta-kill spawning adventurers, which kinda defeats the purpose of the module (though you can still set up in front of the doors, I guess...)

Well, the hirelings rush through the doors to fight them anyway.  For ranged adventuers, at least.  Which means you can't get the loot from the adventurers you defeat and your group gets split up.

jackkel dragon wrote...

No Benefit for Remaining Forces: This was mostly laziness... I didn't come up with a way to reward the player for having any traps/allies left when combat ended. Since I also let the player keep them around for replays of that map, that might not be a bad thing... we'll see.

I wouldn't worry about this - the benefit currently is you can save up gold.

jackkel dragon wrote...

Edit 2: After watching the video, I now feel the urge to find a way to shorten summoning wait times... I forgot how long 6 seconds was after an instant cast.

You've inspired me to think about doing a Tower Defense type module - one of the things I'd do is less plentiful but more powerful creatures (at least on the defending side).

jackkel dragon wrote...

I also think I'll need to buff the traps/launchers and lower the price for them... Goblin Sharpshooters look OP next to the wimpy standard arrow trap (1d6 damage, fires only once).

Especially when the Sharpshooters are far cheaper, yes.

[CaveGnome]

jackkel dragon wrote...

Goblin PC Transform: Okay, I was straight-up lazy here and really just changed the PC appearance index. There's no way in base NWN scripting to change a voiceset, but I really should at least update the portrait...

As for not including a premade/allowing human classes, I wanted to let the player play a class they were comfortable with rather than force them to multiclass from a premade. I suppose I could have a premade with 1 level in commoner and start the game with 1000 XP, though... I'll think about it. (This could also solve the voiceset limitation...)

Why choose between and not have both: a goblin premade & human classes.

Whistles: I didn't even know that NWN had a whistle sound effect... I'll have to look into that. Most of the items were actually made into whistles because A) it made sense and I didn't find any other icons I could make an excuse for when it came to goblins and orcs.

as_pl_whistle1
as_pl_whistle2

Commands: I think it would be important to implement some commands to allow you to move allies after summoning them... I'm still thinking on how to do that in a way that is quick enough for combat yet still allowing for precision (not having all allies move to a single command).

Yes. I tried to use my goblin commander to "push" back and forth grunts approaching them, but it was a very tedious process. I think a mass "follow me" command could be helpful (and simpler to script?), but precision one-soldier positioning is a must.

Doors: I specifically made sure you can't enter the spawn areas after each match because I found that it was possible to set up launchers to insta-kill spawning adventurers, which kinda defeats the purpose of the module (though you can still set up in front of the doors, I guess...)

The problem is you can enter spawn areas for battle duration. Using one-way doors, only allowing exit from the spawning grounds when the battle is won by goblins could be an idea.

Healing Placeable: If I can figure that out, that might be a good idea... I might make it a creature, though. That way the enemy team will actively try to get rid of it, and I don't have to script a fancy AoE heal from the placeable (it can just use existing spells).

I love the travelling shaman/medic idea !!!

[CaveGnome]

Here is my try at:      PHOD The Silver sphere

This is not your classic Nwn module. No hard fight where your life depends on cleverly used abilities. No objects to interact with, no items, enemies or chests to loot and no shop to equip with the latest edge-cutting magic gizmos. If you are a power-warrior or a pack rat, pass your turn. As Plush Hyena Of Doom hinted, Silver sphere is more a sort of animated book with a linear story. If you like reading, a good story, fun and twisted humour, beautiful landscaped areas, spectacular VFX and big chested goth female warriors you shall go...

What i liked:

- Graphics: They are beautiful and evocative. Visual mood swings between dream and  nightmare. Worlds are really pretty spectacular.

- VFX: Glittering disco-funk-groovy inside every FOD special video effect. Special mention for Starbright breasts bouncing in rythm with the wind

- Story: It vampyrises the best fantastic and SciFi sources. Alien, Forbidden planet, Monty Pythons Sacred Graal, Lost in Space, etc. etc. At times, the dialogue is hilarious. PHOD twisted non-sensical silly jokes are everywhere. This is a fun guided tour where you will be introduced to all sort of improbable doom creatures.

- Companions and NPC: Aurelia the magic scholar and Chivuto the were-hiena are well made colorful characters. A certain amphibious volatile, Krappe and sergent Ekpth were memorable encounters.

What could be better:

- it's a one-way trip with no choices. Sometimes it's a little boring to only be a spectator on an adventure where all you have to do is read and keep going forward. Perhaps some choices where you make friends/allies or enemies/foes or save people promised to death could be implemented to infuse more diversity. The good thing is game mechanics being simple, you don't need a journal and never feel lost.

- Fights: The enemies are interesting and impressive, but none can lightly scratch the epic-super-duper-powerful heroine. Even in a book story-like module, i think it would be better if some fights could present a challenge or need some puzzle-solving to succeed.


Improvement suggestions:

(NOTE: don't read what follows if you intend to play, here spoilers!!!)


- In Corvdale forest, there are empty "door" passages without enter possibility. Perhaps using some trees to block and hide the way.

- In the castle, you can pass throu some of the false doors. Put something (placeable) behind the false door to block access.

- Don't use the same global faction for all the NPCs (and monsters). If for a reason or by error you attack one, all the rest of the story characters turn hostile. This is what i got for attacking the Death Demon of Doom to test is strength... After  that, i have to kill absolutely everything that moved to the very end of the module. Afterwards, i played the module a second time without annoying the demon and this time NPCs were more friendly and everything was allright.

- You need script control with a flag variable "done" to be sure that players can't have a specific conversation more than once (otherwise if you click another time on any NPC after conv. end, you will have the same dish served).

- In the castle, princess Tilzi and Voglenogler don't speak if you click them. You have to talk first to king Haldor to discover they have a tongue. You need something like a "Please, talk to the king first" or better: the king engaging
automatically conversation with the PC. Perhaps the king or the princess could formally demand Starbright and Aurelia help (and propose a reward) and give instructions (go throu the south door).

- In Eightstone castle, eastwing: when we encounter princess Tilzy and sergeant Ekpth. They talk about some toadface attack and do nothing after. I was expecting them joining the party or at least going to battle on their own.

- In Prime Splinter Toadface nexus. I think the supreme Toad commander should force-engage the conversation with Starbright just from the start.

- When Starbright hits the sphere, perhaps Toadface Commander should try to defend it (with a real chance to kill Starbright if possible). Even if Aurelia keeps the supreme grotesque at bay, the sphere is such a vital item...

- The sphere is too easy to destroy, and the absence of destruction effects is disapointing (where are the magnificent psychedelic PHOD VFX explosions? Earthquakes anyone? Lava erupting? Cheesecake meteor storm? Myriads of doom stools charging ahead? We, players, need a lightshow  It's the module climax and the big baddy just lost after all.

- Starbright and his her companions warp-jump too quickly after the sphere destruction for my taste. Aurelia could say something like "this prime splinter thingy is collapsing, i will attempt to teleport us away" and Zooomm, here we go.


Well, that's it. To summarize all this, i liked the module, even if i needed some time at first to get in the mood. If you think about the building time constraint (only one month) that's an impressive work.

CG

Modifié par CaveGnome, 27 avril 2013 - 11:14 .

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

Many thanks for your review. I've noted all your points and will take them away and examine them with a very large brick...
Also, you said "...Starbright and his companions..." near the end of your post. I'm assuming that you didn't ACTUALLY mistake Starbright and her over-excitable bosom for a man? (Just joking).

(There now follow Potential "PHoD - The Silver Sphere" Spoilers)

As to the outrageously colossal explosion of VFX that should have accompanied the destruction of the Sphere at the end, I did try. It was going to be EPIC! But unfortunately, every time I got all the epic destruction going off it totally screwed up the teleport out of Area script. No idea why and I didn't have time to sort it out, so yes, that point is already under serious scrutiny... or will be when I can drag myself away from the Daleks... Ultimately it was more important to have the Module continue to the end rather than have a huge mass of exploding El Freako Wombats jumping up and down.

The forest roads that branch off to empty non-doors are there to be seen from the point of view that in reality, roads have junctions and don't solely lead to where the player needs to go. I didn't want them actually leading anywhere and thus have the player wander pointlessly through unnecessary Areas for no good reason, but I wanted them seen to suggest that there were other parts of the realm hanging around somewhere... not sure what to do about those...

Useful comment about the Death Demon of Death... I suppose it might be an idea to alter faction on a few such Creatures in case over-excitable players try mistakenly grappling with them. Easily done, so I'll probably do that straight away.

Already added an omitted pwk to the False Doors so there'll be no more going through those.

Yes, probably a good idea to have a trigger box script to make the King initiate Conversation rather than just stand there like a Toxic Pine Cone.

The Toadface Supreme IS capable of killing Starbright - because the Reeking Spleen did so whilst I was attempting to get the Screenshots for the ABC page... I did want to have a script that made it defend the Sphere but would return to fighting Chivuto the moment it came under personal attack and vice versa, but it was more complicated than I thought to get it working right and it thus fell as a victim of time constraints because I knew I had no time in the second half of the month. (I'd handed the Module in to Henesua by about the 15th or 16th). However, once I get a combat script I'm happy with, it'll be put in.

Thanks for the review and the useful suggestions!

AH! PS:- I think I've just thought of a solution to the "not enough EPIC destruction" problem for the ending. I was totally fixated on the demise of the Sphere causing the collapse of the Splinter... However, I think I shall now tier the scripts thus:-
Sphere on Death script - Destroy Object "Toadface Supreme" plus "Initiate Ridiculous Overstated EPIC Destruction FX" plus "Create Dimension Rift Object" possibly plus "Chivuto and Aurelia 'move to object' cues" -
- followed by a seperate Conversation triggered script at the new Dimension Rift with Aurelia doing something clever and thus sparking the "teleport" action. THAT ought to firmly exterminate the teleport problem I was encountering. Why didn't I think of that to start with? Panicking about time, I suppose.

Modifié par PLUSH HYENA of DOOM, 27 avril 2013 - 10:20 .

[CaveGnome]

PLUSH HYENA of DOOM wrote...

Many thanks for your review. I've noted all your points and will take them away and examine them with a very large brick...

You are welcome. These points are made for brickworking.

Also, you said "...Starbright and his companions..." near the end of your post. I'm assuming that you didn't ACTUALLY mistake Starbright and her over-excitable bosom for a man? (Just joking).

Oooppss... Yeah! Ffwooaugh! Fabulous boobs!

(There now follow Potential "PHoD - The Silver Sphere" Spoilers)

As to the outrageously colossal explosion of VFX that should have accompanied the destruction of the Sphere at the end, I did try. It was going to be EPIC! But unfortunately, every time I got all the epic destruction going off it totally screwed up the teleport out of Area script. No idea why and I didn't have time to sort it out, so yes, that point is already under serious scrutiny... or will be when I can drag myself away from the Daleks... Ultimately it was more important to have the Module continue to the end rather than have a huge mass of exploding El Freako Wombats jumping up and down.

Mmm... Perhaps you where victim of conversation malediction where summoning VFX from convs. breaks the conv. Once, some similar horrendous plague hit meeself. I vote for up and down jumping exploding Wombats! Yes!

The forest roads that branch off to empty non-doors are there to be seen from the point of view that in reality, roads have junctions and don't solely lead to where the player needs to go. I didn't want them actually leading anywhere and thus have the player wander pointlessly through unnecessary Areas for no good reason, but I wanted them seen to suggest that there were other parts of the realm hanging around somewhere... not sure what to do about those...

Understand... But, how do we prevent players reaching the empty transition black holes and finding they are fake ? Hiding those ugly black empty "doors" would help. I faintly remember a tileset with a winding road picture for masking the passage holes (Toro's?). Anyone knows about a specific custom placeable to do this...

The Toadface Supreme IS capable of killing Starbright - because the Reeking Spleen did so whilst I was attempting to get the Screenshots for the ABC page... I did want to have a script that made it defend the Sphere but would return to fighting Chivuto the moment it came under personal attack and vice versa, but it was more complicated than I thought to get it working right and it thus fell as a victim of time constraints because I knew I had no time in the second half of the month. (I'd handed the Module in to Henesua by about the 15th or 16th). However, once I get a combat script I'm happy with, it'll be put in.

Ah! As Aurelia hinted me Toadface maximum lord was indestructible, i went straight for the sphere and passed on the fight... Perhaps, if Aurelia did not say anything (or just gives vague hints) about the commander invincibility and sphere Achille's heel, some players will try fighting the frog lord before finding the sphere is the weak link in the Toad galactic conspiration.

Modifié par CaveGnome, 28 avril 2013 - 03:47 .

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

Yes, I recall the Rural override with the false perspective road continuations. It was a nice idea, because the gaping black holes of doom look a bit rubbish, regardless of whether they lead anywhere or not...

Maybe I'll make a simple Placeable, just a vertical sheet, and do a texture showing some suitable false perspective horizon to stuff in such unwanted holes. (Perhaps a set of them, one for each Tileset that has black holes on roads, streams, etc...

[CaveGnome]

One Eye Wolf Trading Post Beta 0.75 uploaded...

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