279 réponses à ce sujet

[Kidd]

Did I just see Sylvius squee? I just saw Sylvius squee.

Dragon Age 3 is going to be freaking brilliant =)

[thats1evildude]

David Gaider wrote...

There's no such thing as dominant tone any longer. Tone exists for roleplaying choices in the tone wheels-- that's it. We don't track it. As I said, options off the choice wheel are neutral-toned unless the tone is already implicit, and any auto-dialogue (I'll use that phrase, since it seems to have stuck) we need to use is also neutral-only.

Aww. I actually liked the dominant tone. 

Oh well, it's not a deal-breaker.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 04 mars 2013 - 10:55 .

[bEVEsthda]

...And then as everybody suddenly grasped that the revealed tweaks for the dialogue wheel might actually work, there was a great stillness of hope and anticipation. A fear that something might break the spell...

[Fast Jimmy]

Honestly? This thread went from being another rote of the same ole' concept to one of the biggest revelations about DA3 mechanics to date.

Huzzah!

[Firky]

I don't know if just changing that one thing will massively change the voiced protagonist/roleplaying issues people have, though.

I really enjoyed DA2, but I always saw Hawke as Hawke. Although I played Origins as "me," it was immediately obvious to me that when Hawke spoke and I couldn't anticipate some of what he/she was going to say, trying to make Hawke, "me," was going to be a genuinely stressful experience.

But, I think slightly less chaos in terms of choice of dialogue is good.

[Emzamination]

krul2k wrote...

 so if theres no dominant tone any longer (which i liked tbh since i consider if you choose a path well stick to it) can i assume there will be other,for lack of a better word,features that will help determine an distinguise my character?

or is it back to head canon it ?

I should hope so. First I have to hear about Gta V cutting the dating system and now this. Makers breath what is the gaming industry coming to? /facepalm/ I need a sabbatical.

[jillabender]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Did I just see Sylvius squee? I just saw Sylvius squee.

Dragon Age 3 is going to be freaking brilliant =)

[LinksOcarina]

I never minded the dominant tone aspect, although I admit I didn't notice it until my second playthrough. Still, changes in the name of progress is ok.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Honestly? This thread went from being another rote of the same ole' concept to one of the biggest revelations about DA3 mechanics to date.

Take that, show-don't-tell!

[LinksOcarina]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Honestly? This thread went from being another rote of the same ole' concept to one of the biggest revelations about DA3 mechanics to date.

Take that, show-don't-tell!

Add it to the list of things we know! All five of them.

[Medhia Nox]

Just play the game with no sound - it's what I do and everything is as the text states.

[Fast Jimmy]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Just play the game with no sound - it's what I do and everything is as the text states.

...except it doesn't? The Wheel's paraphrases don't show you what is going to be said on mute anymore than it does with sound. 

I think you are getting tone confused with paraphrases. 

[Alodar]

It's too bad that this didn't work.

I didn't like the paraphrase system in DA2 because I felt there was a disconnect between what the paraphrase said and what I thought it was going to lead to.

I really appreciate BioWare trying to implement a view the next line in dialogue system but unfortunately it didn't work -- it seems it just transferred the disconnect from "That's not what I wanted to say" to "That's not how I wanted to say it".

As always with game design if a solution doesn't solve a problem or just creates different problems then it's not a very good solution.

Thanks to the fine folks at BioWare for listening and trying.

I look forward to seeing what they do for Dragon Age Inquisition.


Alodar

Modifié par Alodar, 05 mars 2013 - 12:38 .

[Sir George Parr]

Liked the dominant tone and sad to see it go. So are the origin backgrounds for the inquisitor going to be employed to affect the PCs personality in lieu?.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

We don't know. But I would say they won't replace one version of the computer controlling your response with another. If you have the background if a gruff, rough-around-the-edges Inquisitor, that shouldn't automatically preclude you from ever being nice.

I'd love a system where we can choose our tone/response on the fly during auto-dialogue events instead of leaving it to any past choices to make that decision for us, whether that decision is previous responses or our choice of background.

But that's just me.

[Cainhurst Crow]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

There's no reason to continue with this, as it's not a suggestion that will be taken. The answer is sorry, but no-- there will be no hover text that displays the full line. I know some have an idea in their head as to what it will do, and compare it to other games that did something similar (even if those games didn't work the same as DA), but we looked long and hard at this option and in the end didn't agree with the supposition behind it. I doubt the people this would be meant to please would actually be made happy by it because it doesn't go far enough-- that can't go for every single person, of course, as tastes vary, but overall we feel this would be more problem than it's worth.

I gave a longer response on this several times in the past, so I won't do it again. I'd appreciate it if someone wants to bring up "Gaider said this" they actually dig up the response rather than offer some incomplete and incorrect interpretation of whatever it was I said.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if it actually worked as advertised. It doesn't. The problem is the paraphasing doesn't match up with what's being displayed on the wheel. It's the same issue people had with it in Mass Effect. Either way, it doesn't work as well as the previous set up that was in Origins. What is gained by paraphrasing each line for the player?

More lines of dialouge avaliable for everyone else.

[dheer]

David Gaider wrote...
While having those different lines is cool when noticed, I don't think it was actually noticed very much ("card tricks in the dark" is a phrase for variations which, cool as they might be, aren't recognized by players as variation unless they have inside knowledge or replay), so we're not going to use dominant tone in those lines any more. Choice lines are always neutral tone unless the tone is implied in the paraphrase-- makes it easier to write the paraphrase and less chance of disconnect between it and the actual line, and we can use the wordcount elsewhere just as easily.

I just wanted to chime in here with a sincere thank you. This was one of my biggest problems with DA2. Great news.

Modifié par dheer, 05 mars 2013 - 01:44 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

David Gaider wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
If I bear the slaver no ill will, I want to choose yes.  However, it turns out that Hawke isn't allowed to like the slavers, and thus the full line associated with the Yes option is "Get out of my sight."  That's not an unaggressive line.

While having those different lines is cool when noticed, I don't think it was actually noticed very much ("card tricks in the dark" is a phrase for variations which, cool as they might be, aren't recognized by players as variation unless they have inside knowledge or replay), so we're not going to use dominant tone in those lines any more. Choice lines are always neutral tone unless the tone is implied in the paraphrase-- makes it easier to write the paraphrase and less chance of disconnect between it and the actual line, and we can use the wordcount elsewhere just as easily.

 YESSSS!

[Fortlowe]

Nooooo!!!!! I LIKED the tone tracking! I just didn't like how little control we had over what tone was express, how or when.

[Fast Jimmy]

Fortlowe wrote...

Nooooo!!!!! I LIKED the tone tracking! I just didn't like how little control we had over what tone was express, how or when.

I would think the alternative is more control over the tone your character gives at all times. So no tone tracking is better, given your desired desire for more control. You can, hopefully, still be diplomatic all the time, but the system will not automatically ASSUME you will be diplomatic. 

[Fortlowe]

The tracking was how personality was formed though, and that was chief amongst the very good things DA2 contributed to the series. Grrrrrr.......

[Fast Jimmy]

Fortlowe wrote...

The tracking was how personality was formed though, and that was chief amongst the very good things DA2 contributed to the series. Grrrrrr.......

I'd say the personality was formed by the player, through their choices and dialogue responses. I, personally, didn't need the game to tell me how I felt about certain situations.

But, as always, YMMV.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EntropicAngel wrote...

The problem with your second paragraph is that as I've said before that would cripple scene flow.

We could use ME2-style interrupts that pause the scene and allow player input.  If the player wants flow, however, he can just not intervene and watch the auto-dialogue.

Of course people we know (who may or may not have shocked us both in this thread with his...antics) and even we might not mind that, but I don't think Bioware is going to hinder scene flow any more than they already do.

It's not hindrance if its optional.  An interrupt system would allow players to choose not to intervene.  That's fundamentally different from a standard dialogue hub event where the game pauses automatically to seek input.  Having the player trigger the hub event would give the player maximum control, but make that control optional to preseve scene flow for players who care about that sort of thing.

Of course people we know (who may or may not have shocked us both in this thread with his...antics)

People respond positively to enthusiasm.  So, when BioWare does things I like, it seems prudent to display enthusiasm.

See?  I can learn about people.