359 réponses à ce sujet

[ruggly]

Auintus wrote...

Physical and psychological structure both have a physical form, neuron pathways and whatnot. Since Shepard disintegrates slowly, if find it reasonable to assume that the Crucible is scanning as it goes, then uses Shepard's form as a base template for the Synthesis change. Turians would remain turians and so on, but Shepard's synthetic implants would be made a part of the average physical structure, modified for each species. His neural pathways, which record the "why" behind his motivations and drives, could be scanned at the same time, with that information conferred to synthetics, giving them a true taste of what it means to be organic, if only as a pseudo-memory.
That's what I think anyway. Take it as it is.

If it's only scanning, then why does Shepard need to disintegrate?  If synthesis had a low EMS option, then I could understand, but you would think with high enough EMS, Shepard could have a chance to live.  Or would that ruin the whole Space Jesus dies for you and would no longer be beautiful.

[GreyLycanTrope]

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Shepard doesn;t have a unique relationship with Synthesis. 

Then he didn't need to jump.  

Looks like I'm gonna have to jump

[o Ventus]

Cantable wrote...

Given that Shep isn't a scientist, I reckon that the Catalyst can take a few liberties with definitions in order for him to understand.

I'm not a geneticist, but I know what DNA is, it's function, and it's composition.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

As a standalone concept completely outside of the Mass Effect universe, synthesis is actually good (though I doubt anyone would call it that). It's transhumanism.

In the context that it is used in Mass Effect, it is horrifyingly executed and terribly written. The consequences, the motivations, the scientific explanation given for it (final evolution, new DNA, and life essence), the themes and reason behind its usage, and the entity that advocates make it an utterly reprehensible choice to me.

[edisnooM]

ruggly wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

When Futurama starts to make more sense, you know something's up.

When I find the episode "Jurrasic Bark" to be more beautiful than Mass Effect..

Now that was a bittersweet ending.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

o Ventus wrote...

Cantable wrote...

Given that Shep isn't a scientist, I reckon that the Catalyst can take a few liberties with definitions in order for him to understand.

I'm not a geneticist, but I know what DNA is, it's function, and it's composition.

I also know that evolution has no discernable track and that life energy is long disproven and derided form of pseudo-science.

[Getorex]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Cantable wrote...

Given that Shep isn't a scientist, I reckon that the Catalyst can take a few liberties with definitions in order for him to understand.

I'm not a geneticist, but I know what DNA is, it's function, and it's composition.

I also know that evolution has no discernable track and that life energy is long disproven and derided form of pseudo-science.

"Organic energy" = ATP.  Pretty much that.  ATP.  All energy functions in the cell, ANY cell, goes into ATP production.

[o Ventus]

spirosz wrote...

I don't believe it's supposed to be taken in a literal sense, more so - Shepard represents the best of what organics can achieve or some philosophical bull****.

You can argue that Shepard can make some pretty dumb decisions and that's fine, but I personally believe that's the way Bioware wanted to express "essence".

Do I agree with it?  No.  

In a literal sense, it's made much more retarded.

What in the literal f**k is "essence", and how does one obtain it?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Getorex wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Cantable wrote...

Given that Shep isn't a scientist, I reckon that the Catalyst can take a few liberties with definitions in order for him to understand.

I'm not a geneticist, but I know what DNA is, it's function, and it's composition.

I also know that evolution has no discernable track and that life energy is long disproven and derided form of pseudo-science.

"Organic energy" = ATP.  Pretty much that.  ATP.  All energy functions in the cell, ANY cell, goes into ATP production.

I think the explanation that we're given is more in line with vitalism. Vitalism is a part of mysticism. 

I think it's just crap made to look pretty because BW likes to be "deep".

[MegaSovereign]

edisnooM wrote...

ruggly wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

When Futurama starts to make more sense, you know something's up.

When I find the episode "Jurrasic Bark" to be more beautiful than Mass Effect..

Now that was a bittersweet ending.

Had me at tears tbh.

[o Ventus]

Getorex wrote...

"Organic energy" = ATP.  Pretty much that.  ATP.  All energy functions in the cell, ANY cell, goes into ATP production.

In that case, "organic" energy would just be chemical energy. But then that would make Shepard's apparent uniqueness totally false and his/her death completely unnecessary. All he would have to do at that point is throw a but in stick down the Synthesis beam if it just requires chemical energy.

I think he meant "life energy" in the hippie sense of the phrase.

[fizzypop]

Eryri wrote...

Subject M wrote...

Yes, EDI supposedly has a "synthetic energy" that give rise to her mind. According to that logic, the fact that organic and synthetic lifeforms operate on different hardware means that they produce different "energy patterns" that in turn gives rise to different types of quantum-states. While it is supposedly possible to produce or maintain an organic quantum-energy-matrix by artificial means, it is much more energy inefficient (as the different types of hardware are much more efficient in generating such fields within different spectra/frequencies).  

How Synthesis really works and if Diana Allers in theory could have done it as well as Shepard is unclear, but supposedly Shepard might be an ideal candidate because of how he was brought back from the dead (they fixed him with stuff based on Reaper tech, although Miranda did not know it). 

This is all from a supposed "inside source". I would take it with a grain of salt, but it actually makes sense.

I'm afraid that I couldn't read that explanation without thinking of this - http://rationalwiki....iki/Quantum_woo. 

No offence, but I sincerely hope that this "inside source" is not connected to Bioware. He or she appears to be appropriating words and phrases like "quantum", "energy" and "spectra", and using them as an obscurantist substitute for "a wizard did it!"

lol I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't put it into words. Wizards need to stop messing with ****!

[Getorex]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Cantable wrote...

Given that Shep isn't a scientist, I reckon that the Catalyst can take a few liberties with definitions in order for him to understand.

I'm not a geneticist, but I know what DNA is, it's function, and it's composition.

I also know that evolution has no discernable track and that life energy is long disproven and derided form of pseudo-science.

"Organic energy" = ATP.  Pretty much that.  ATP.  All energy functions in the cell, ANY cell, goes into ATP production.

I think the explanation that we're given is more in line with vitalism. Vitalism is a part of mysticism. 

I think it's just crap made to look pretty because BW likes to be "deep".

I purposefully refuse to let them take me there.  I hear (or read) "vital essence" or "life energy" and, as a biologist, I automatically think: ATP.  I will not let anyone drag me into magic essence crap.

[Getorex]

o Ventus wrote...

Getorex wrote...

"Organic energy" = ATP.  Pretty much that.  ATP.  All energy functions in the cell, ANY cell, goes into ATP production.

In that case, "organic" energy would just be chemical energy. But then that would make Shepard's apparent uniqueness totally false and his/her death completely unnecessary. All he would have to do at that point is throw a but in stick down the Synthesis beam if it just requires chemical energy.

I think he meant "life energy" in the hippie sense of the phrase.

You don't need to refer to anything at all about one's "essence" or "energy" to render the official endings death of Shepard as unnecessary.  It was unnecessary simply because there was no logical reason to go there in every option.  It was made so for totally arbitrary reasons...just because.

Hence I go MEHEM and don't let arbitrary death be forced upon me.

[fizzypop]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Face the facts. Synthesis is a bloody ass pull. No wait it's worse than that. It's stupid. It makes no damned sense at all. Trying to make any sense out of it will drive you bat @#$@ crazy. It's like a bad drug trip.

true, but sometimes it's fun to try and speculate. Afterall, star trek spurred nerd sciencists to try xand explain the tech that they had and how it would work.

[Getorex]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

As a standalone concept completely outside of the Mass Effect universe, synthesis is actually good (though I doubt anyone would call it that). It's transhumanism.

In the context that it is used in Mass Effect, it is horrifyingly executed and terribly written. The consequences, the motivations, the scientific explanation given for it (final evolution, new DNA, and life essence), the themes and reason behind its usage, and the entity that advocates make it an utterly reprehensible choice to me.

Synthesis is Deus Ex: Human Revolution.  It is people CHOOSING to accept augmentations piecemeal to solve problems or correct defects.  It is surgical, it is injectable, but it cannot be had by light beam.

[Megaton_Hope]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone

[o Ventus]

fizzypop wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Face the facts. Synthesis is a bloody ass pull. No wait it's worse than that. It's stupid. It makes no damned sense at all. Trying to make any sense out of it will drive you bat @#$@ crazy. It's like a bad drug trip.

true, but sometimes it's fun to try and speculate. Afterall, star trek spurred nerd sciencists to try xand explain the tech that they had and how it would work.

At least Star Trek has technobabble. Synthesis has... Essence.

Plausible?

[o Ventus]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone

Basically hippie magic, then.

[Stalker]

There is no "essence" of a human. It's spiritual nonsense from the Catalyst that has no place in a sci-fi universe.

It's almost as bad as believing that melting down organics into a certain structure "saves" the civilization and creates a living being.

[dreamgazer]

o Ventus wrote...

Megaton_Hope wrote...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone

Basically hippie magic, then.

The idea definitely lends itself more to metaphysical / philosophical interpretations rather than literal ones.

[o Ventus]

Jadebaby wrote...

@OP, well technically organic energy could be seamen since it is the seed of life.

Then why go to the trouble of having Shepard kill himself when just giving him 10 minutes with Miranda would accomplish the goal just as easily?

[Getorex]

o Ventus wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

@OP, well technically organic energy could be seamen since it is the seed of life.

Then why go to the trouble of having Shepard kill himself when just giving him 10 minutes with Miranda would accomplish the goal just as easily?

That's only HALF the necessary information.  You would also need an egg to get the full monty.  So skip that and take a cheek swab. Get the full complement of DNA.

But that would be kind of a letdown.  "Shepard.  We need your essence to do some sweet space magic.  Kindly take this Q-tip and wipe it around in your mouth and deposit it into this ziplock bag.  Drop the bag down the slot in front of you."

[dreamgazer]

I sense a spunky new theory on the horizon.