32 réponses à ce sujet

[MagRR]

Hi Eveyone

I've just bought DAO and am appalled. The world is in recession yet Bioware are releasing products that don't work properly. The right first time philosophy was adopted by industry back in the 80's but here we have a company that sells flawed products and tests them on the customer. This is reminiscent of the British Leyland approach back in the 70's (for non UK readers British Leyland was the state owned car producer that was a national laughing stock - it couldn't go bust because as fast as it lost money  the government poured in more - like it now does with banks). However the pc gaming community seems to be the only consumer group that will stand fo this.

My first impression when I loaded the game was that the textures looked bad - really bad. Most items seem to be made out of muddy plastic which seems a little strange in a medieval style world. I tried the JB texture pack but despite the hard work of the author it did little to improve this graphical disaster. Some posts on the forum defend the graphics as their systems would not benefit from improved textures. I don't understand why they don't use an xbox instead of a pc as one of the delights of pc gaming is the graphical power available.

I did some research and found that most of the core textures are very low resolution which seemed strange in a modern game. Further research suggests this is to mitigate a memory leak problem which as I understand it means RAM gradually fills up which increases loading times after long play and can lead to crashes. Why not fix the leak and leave the textures alone? For Oblivion a modder produced a memory purger (Streamline) for a problem like this - why can't Bioware do something similar within the game?

During the course of this research I also found out that the game runs the CPU cores more intensively than other games even when  only the menu is loaded. Dual core systems are reported to run permanently at 100%. I tested this on my core i7 CPU and found the CPU was at 25% usage. This seems fine until you find that this is an average over the eight cores (with hyperthreading) and core 0 was indeed running close to 100%. I did tthe same test on other games and at the menu screen usage was zero as it should be when  the CPU is idle. Some posts suggest this does not matter but if the cores are running harder than they need to they create heat which is bad for any system. On my system this pushed the CPU temperature up 14 degrees - I hate to think what it would do if all cores were running at 100%.

When I tried to play the game I found the controls difficult. I like to play in over-the-shoulder mode so I can admire the lovely gaphics (not here obviously). To move in the direction you are looking requires the walk button and the right mouse button - why? You can overcome this if your gaming mouse can handle macros but this seems a silly oversight by the developers - it takes me back to the controls in KotOR which must be over eight years old now. Perhaps you are expected to use the point and click method to move instead but where I come from we have actually discovered fire.

Surprisingly Bioware produced Mass Effect, an RPG with none of these problems. In DOA they seem to be using an experimental game engine without testing it first rather than using the Unreal 3 engine which worked well with Mass Effect . The Witcher was produced on a version of Bioware's Neverwinter Nights engine and that ran well and looked super out of the box. Amazingly they were a small independent team of polish developers not some industry giant.

Suspiciously the game received good reviews in the gaming press with no mention of these serious flaws. I will be cancelling my subscription to PC Gamer as they gave this 94% - I don't believe they even played it and they can sue me for defamation if they want - I am losing faith in the objectivity of the gaming press. Older gamers like me are waiting for the successor to Baldur's Gate II - this isn't it - in the eight years or so since that game's release technology has moved on but this game seems stuck in a time warp.

In conclusion let's drop the Emperor's New Clothes act and admit this game is not of satisfactory quality. I'm tired of reading posts on the forum defending Bioware - they are a big developer and can and should do better. If we keep on accepting this rubbish Bioware will have no incentive to improve. At present a chap is working free of charge to improve the core game textures (4Aces). Why should we have to rely on Samaritans like this when the developer should have done it already - we have bought what was represented as a quality product and clearly it is not? All I ask is value for money and this game does not provide it.

I look forward to hearing your  views

Mag

[BurghJimmyG]

I couldn't agree more! This game has more bugs than a colony of cockroaches! If Bioware doesn't come up with a patch that keeps this game from crashing me out everytime I go into the Denirim Market District (and does not keep the game saves that I made there), I am going to contact my State Attorney General and the Federal Trade Commission.

[TheSupremeForce]

How does not liking the textures and/or the controls (which are basically the same as most of BioWare's control schemes anyway) qualify as "not getting it right"? DA isn't perfect, but I don't think the textures are a big deal (not that I object to the idea that higher definition textures would have been a good thing, at least as an option). The controls are fine. If anything, they're better than those found in most RPG's. The fact that MOST people enjoy the game makes your opinion exactly that... the opinion of one person which should never be misinterpreted as the will of the people.

[Apex Sammoth]

Maviarab wrote...

Whilst a very good, thoughtful and well put together post, as you have asked for views, my view is that your wrong on many points.

I don't macro anything, have no issues with looking around and or walking.If YOUfind the controls difficult, thats your problem, many more people have no issue with the controls (pc anyway). The textures while dumb downed, are better on the PC than they are on the console, and its hardly a big deal is it having to spend 3 minutes downloading a new texture pack.

name ONE game that the modding community has no brought out better textures than in the default game?


as for using the xbox, DA looks horrid on the xbox, its limited and stuck with defining hardware that can't be changed. Its also crap because it was ported at EA's request (why the release delay)...it was and should have stayed a PC release only.

Second, the textures were not reduced 'because' of the memory leak, its a seperate issue, if you have used over 500 hi-res textures (as i do) then you will see the perfomance dip. This is why they were not all hi-res, as it would increase system specs.

Why do they have to use an existing engine. kudos for developing a new engine, unfortunate that with new things coms the odd slip or error. Your telling me if you had the money to buy a new car, and something wasnt quite perfect, you would moan becuase they developed somehting new rather than using an older tech? Hmmm ok.

Cancelling your pc gamer subscription...ohh wow...like anyone cares?

As for staisfactory quality, thats your opinion and your opinion only. To me (and many thousand others) the game is great quality, great value and has huge replayability.

Might be wise to perhaps state opinion as such, and not fact.

But again, other than that, well written post.

Yes it is well written post but, you are doing the same thing he just said he was tierd of hearing about. Not to mention his Opinion is just as Good as Yours. Great you like the game not everyone agrees just like you don't agree with him.

To The OP Great post this is something I have been saying for a long time about the gamming industry. Sometimes things need to be said or nothing will ever get done. 

http://social.biowar.../index/552944/1

[Apex Sammoth]

Unfortunately this game has had many Major issues at release these are not minor flaws. As far as things being said he is entitled to them just as you are entitled to your opinion about the game. I don't agree with everything he said but, I do agree this game has not been up to par with older Bioware products.

[Nodakear]

I don't really know why people say this game has so many big bugs? All I have is the memory leak which make my games load longer after a while. All i do is shut down the game and then restart it, or i ignore that and load on, takes up to 1 min eventually but i play on.



Other then seeing a cheese that's not round but a ... hectagon? i don't see much flaws with the graphics. Maybe they could have made it more streamlined, i don't know, it's not something i seem to see. To me, graphics look good. I just sumtimes see a texture go black and come back.



As for weird crashes people seem to talk about.... again, they are not present in my game. My PC probably runs games smoothly enough to prevent crashes in games. The only time i do crash is when i turn on SLI, which strikes me as odd cause even if the game doesn't support SLI functions, shouldn't it at least see the 2 videocards as 1 and just run the game? In the old days we could link 2 cards too and when we did, even games that didn't support it ran fine without crashes, ever since i got SLI, all games that don't support SLI crash on me. Maybe some1 could shine a light on that for me? hehe



As for the OP, I agree with some other writers here, it is your opinion and with a lot of what you wrote I don't agree. Like the way the controls work, i played World of warcraft and there it works exactly the same as in DAO, walk with keys, look around with the mouse, so i was already used to that and i enjoy it like that because in many first person shooters you also walk with keys and look around with the mouse. I do wonder if you play first person shooter because i think that if you did, you would be used to this setup and not dislike it. Or you're playing FPS in a rather preculiar way hehe.



Well, those are my opinions and experiences with DAO

[Elfwhykay]

TheSupremeForce wrote...

How does not liking the textures and/or the controls (which are basically the same as most of BioWare's control schemes anyway) qualify as "not getting it right"? DA isn't perfect, but I don't think the textures are a big deal (not that I object to the idea that higher definition textures would have been a good thing, at least as an option).

FOr this game to use 100% cpu on multiple cores and burn up my graphics card, it should have the most amazing graphics in the world, it should be like im actually there. This game is more pixilated than TESIII morrowind is, and that is during CUTSCENES! How can a cutscene have bad graphics. I noticed a lot of bad terrain merging as well, and I could see through the bottoms of bridges and undernearth buildings in a few places, sloppy work.

The memory leak problem is really pissing me off as well, I would love my$50 back for this game very much as I can hardly load the game anymore without crashing 5 minutes later.

I also don't understand how bioware messed up DAO since its pretty much 8 year old neverwinter nights with voice acting, nothing more except lots more bugs.

Going to go play some 10 year old games now, which have no issues. Probably neverwinter nights. ALSO bioware how about trying to let me buy wyvern crown of cormyr so I dont need to pirate it kay?

Modifié par Elfwhykay, 12 janvier 2010 - 10:29 .

[Nodakear]

I don't care if a game is pixilated or not, not that i see it here or i look over it. I care if a game plays nice, has a nice story and gives me hours of fun. This game does just that. So it has a few bugs or sloppier graphics then what games could have these days, does this mean we're getting spoiled and cannot enjoy a game for the fun it brings alone anymore? Does everything have to be perfect these days? I love a game if it has all 3 points i mentioned above, i don't need more. If a game doesn't give me that, then I don't play it, simply as that.



Whining about it only gives us your opinion (altho it's a sumwhat whiney opinion and those could be kept to urself in my opinion ) Just don't play it if you don't like it. If there are bugs, hope they get fixed, tell the makers and still play the game if you can overcome the bugs till it's fixed. Whining and telling you don't like it won't change a thing about the fact that you're probably not gonna play it anymore anyways. That's such a waste of an opinion.



Make an opinion and hope the bugs get fixed afterwards but please don't make statements like, "I want my money back" or "I'm not gonna play it anymore" because in my opinion that doesn't help putting your opinion here anyways. Then you just want to vent your dislike about a game and don't want a fix. And shouldn't those opinions go on another forum like... "We hate dragon age" forum?

[Kilyra]

I know everyone rags on the Xbox version and all (what I play on)...but at least I have no problems with game play bugs or anything. I'm very happy with the graphics and have had nothing but positive experiences. Sure I can't mod the characters and whatever else, but...I'm still happy. Yeah Xbox

[lightserith]

I'll agree about the CPU intensive part. This game pushes my phenom II x4 overclocked to 3.8 ghz to 75% usage; i haven't had that much usage from a game on my quad core; therefore, i suppose it wouldn't be so good to run this on a dual core instead..



And the load times, yup. kinda bad



as far as the textures not being perfect..well this game isnt supposed to be super high definition b/c then they wouldnt be able to appeal to a wider audience; it would lag more for many. though i do wish the textures were better, (but this is coming from a guy who has hd 4870 in crossfire..)..

[phordicus]

I am losing faith in the objectivity of the gaming press.

just now?  EA, among the other giants, buys most of their ratings via ad revenue.

[Cors Leonus]

phordicus wrote...

I am losing faith in the objectivity of the gaming press.

just now?  EA, among the other giants, buys most of their ratings via ad revenue.

 *cough* Gamespot with Kane & Lynch, anyone?

 I don't agree with some of the severity of the original post. I've had plenty of problems with Dragon Age, too, on a computer that more than lives up to the recommended specs. I don't mind the low-res textures in some places, and the control scheme is just fine by me, too;  but the many, many problems that this game has with hardware configurations - especially those with Dual-core CPUs like mine - shows a bit of a lack of testing or tuning for some of the extended audience.

 For the record I had my doubts about EA interloping with Bioware, but, if anything, I hoped it would make the company stronger in making its games. I have no doubt it has done that... ...but what is the cost in game quality from here on out for those of us that EA - and now Bioware - sees as 'negligible'?

 I'm reminded of games like Battle for Middle-Earth II's expansion when I think of 'EA' and 'customer service'.

 But as a fan of Bioware, I'll support them fully. I don't mind a few hiccups. I'll continue to wish that they could be remedied, and continue to voice my own... ...what is this big discourse that has taken place here? ...ah, right:  my own opinion on the matter.
 
As for what happened to 'right the first time':  the person who came up with Patches is what happened to 'right the first time' (and now it has spilled over to consoles - God help us all ).

Modifié par Cors Leonus, 12 janvier 2010 - 11:48 .

[bzombo]

MagRR wrote...

Hi Eveyone

I've just bought DAO and am appalled. The world is in recession yet Bioware are releasing products that don't work properly. The right first time philosophy was adopted by industry back in the 80's but here we have a company that sells flawed products and tests them on the customer. This is reminiscent of the British Leyland approach back in the 70's (for non UK readers British Leyland was the state owned car producer that was a national laughing stock - it couldn't go bust because as fast as it lost money  the government poured in more - like it now does with banks). However the pc gaming community seems to be the only consumer group that will stand fo this.

My first impression when I loaded the game was that the textures looked bad - really bad. Most items seem to be made out of muddy plastic which seems a little strange in a medieval style world. I tried the JB texture pack but despite the hard work of the author it did little to improve this graphical disaster. Some posts on the forum defend the graphics as their systems would not benefit from improved textures. I don't understand why they don't use an xbox instead of a pc as one of the delights of pc gaming is the graphical power available.

I did some research and found that most of the core textures are very low resolution which seemed strange in a modern game. Further research suggests this is to mitigate a memory leak problem which as I understand it means RAM gradually fills up which increases loading times after long play and can lead to crashes. Why not fix the leak and leave the textures alone? For Oblivion a modder produced a memory purger (Streamline) for a problem like this - why can't Bioware do something similar within the game?

During the course of this research I also found out that the game runs the CPU cores more intensively than other games even when  only the menu is loaded. Dual core systems are reported to run permanently at 100%. I tested this on my core i7 CPU and found the CPU was at 25% usage. This seems fine until you find that this is an average over the eight cores (with hyperthreading) and core 0 was indeed running close to 100%. I did tthe same test on other games and at the menu screen usage was zero as it should be when  the CPU is idle. Some posts suggest this does not matter but if the cores are running harder than they need to they create heat which is bad for any system. On my system this pushed the CPU temperature up 14 degrees - I hate to think what it would do if all cores were running at 100%.

When I tried to play the game I found the controls difficult. I like to play in over-the-shoulder mode so I can admire the lovely gaphics (not here obviously). To move in the direction you are looking requires the walk button and the right mouse button - why? You can overcome this if your gaming mouse can handle macros but this seems a silly oversight by the developers - it takes me back to the controls in KotOR which must be over eight years old now. Perhaps you are expected to use the point and click method to move instead but where I come from we have actually discovered fire.

Surprisingly Bioware produced Mass Effect, an RPG with none of these problems. In DOA they seem to be using an experimental game engine without testing it first rather than using the Unreal 3 engine which worked well with Mass Effect . The Witcher was produced on a version of Bioware's Neverwinter Nights engine and that ran well and looked super out of the box. Amazingly they were a small independent team of polish developers not some industry giant.

Suspiciously the game received good reviews in the gaming press with no mention of these serious flaws. I will be cancelling my subscription to PC Gamer as they gave this 94% - I don't believe they even played it and they can sue me for defamation if they want - I am losing faith in the objectivity of the gaming press. Older gamers like me are waiting for the successor to Baldur's Gate II - this isn't it - in the eight years or so since that game's release technology has moved on but this game seems stuck in a time warp.

In conclusion let's drop the Emperor's New Clothes act and admit this game is not of satisfactory quality. I'm tired of reading posts on the forum defending Bioware - they are a big developer and can and should do better. If we keep on accepting this rubbish Bioware will have no incentive to improve. At present a chap is working free of charge to improve the core game textures (4Aces). Why should we have to rely on Samaritans like this when the developer should have done it already - we have bought what was represented as a quality product and clearly it is not? All I ask is value for money and this game does not provide it.

I look forward to hearing your  views

Mag

hmm....don't know what your system is, so no clue if it's specific to what you have. anyway, they developed this game to run on xp and vista, two completely different systems. the bg series is my all time favorite series, but it had some bugs too. anyway, seems you're just trolling anyway. what else is new? your post is fairly new. have you patched the game yet? no pc games come out bug free anymore due to all the system variations and the sea of bugs every microsoft product has to begin with. i've been able to play unpatched with no problems. only issue is the dex bug, which is now fixed anyway.

[bzombo]

Apex Sammoth wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

Whilst a very good, thoughtful and well put together post, as you have asked for views, my view is that your wrong on many points.

I don't macro anything, have no issues with looking around and or walking.If YOUfind the controls difficult, thats your problem, many more people have no issue with the controls (pc anyway). The textures while dumb downed, are better on the PC than they are on the console, and its hardly a big deal is it having to spend 3 minutes downloading a new texture pack.

name ONE game that the modding community has no brought out better textures than in the default game?


as for using the xbox, DA looks horrid on the xbox, its limited and stuck with defining hardware that can't be changed. Its also crap because it was ported at EA's request (why the release delay)...it was and should have stayed a PC release only.

Second, the textures were not reduced 'because' of the memory leak, its a seperate issue, if you have used over 500 hi-res textures (as i do) then you will see the perfomance dip. This is why they were not all hi-res, as it would increase system specs.

Why do they have to use an existing engine. kudos for developing a new engine, unfortunate that with new things coms the odd slip or error. Your telling me if you had the money to buy a new car, and something wasnt quite perfect, you would moan becuase they developed somehting new rather than using an older tech? Hmmm ok.

Cancelling your pc gamer subscription...ohh wow...like anyone cares?

As for staisfactory quality, thats your opinion and your opinion only. To me (and many thousand others) the game is great quality, great value and has huge replayability.

Might be wise to perhaps state opinion as such, and not fact.

But again, other than that, well written post.

Yes it is well written post but, you are doing the same thing he just said he was tierd of hearing about. Not to mention his Opinion is just as Good as Yours. Great you like the game not everyone agrees just like you don't agree with him.

To The OP Great post this is something I have been saying for a long time about the gamming industry. Sometimes things need to be said or nothing will ever get done. 

http://social.biowar.../index/552944/1

maybe you should stick with board games to avoid ever having to deal with a bug. pc games will always have bugs due to the numerous systems they must work on.

[Peeker2009]

I wasn't aware that this was a "we love Dragon Age" or even "how to improve Dragon Age" forum. A forum is by definition a place for open discussion (except in modern business practice where its a place for management to tell you what a great job they are doing :/)



I agree with some of th OPs criticisms and have a few of my own (re skills, battle variations, gear), but don't agree with other some of the other points (eg, found the game controls easy to use). I have played the game through twice, and love certain aspects of it, particularly in regard to the development of relationships between the PC and NPCs. Yet others are really dissappointing (opening a locked chest, for eg, has always been an exciting part of any rpg I've played, but DA completely ruined that aspect imo).



Howvwer, one thing that really bugs me is when fans respond to criticisms with: "if you don't like it, don't play it" or characterise the poster as a troll. If someone has condemned the game because it in no way measures up to their expectations, then they have the right (imo) to express their dissatisfaction, especially when confronted by hundreds of posts stating how and why the game is so brilliant upon logging on to the community.



I see an analogy with music (I am a musician myself). If a friend of mine loves Michael Buble or Kenny G (was huge in Taiwan) and tells me so, then I practice a "live and let live" philosphy, and leave well enough alone. But if that same person tries hard to convince me of the respective merits of these performers then the gloves are off and I won't be held responsible if they no longer feel quite so good about their favorite singers afterwards. In other words, the only time to burst a bubble is when someone is blowing it in your face. The same applies if someone tries too hard to convert me to their religion.



If someone has played the game 6 times, then the last person they want to hear from is a player who is singularly unimpressed. However, that doesn't mean that the disgruntled customer must remain silent (or is no longer part of the game community by default). The fan can either ignore or argue against negative opinions, not simply deny their right to be expressed, without being undemocratic.

[Apex Sammoth]

Peeker2009 wrote...

I wasn't aware that this was a "we love Dragon Age" or even "how to improve Dragon Age" forum. A forum is by definition a place for open discussion (except in modern business practice where its a place for management to tell you what a great job they are doing :/)

I agree with some of th OPs criticisms and have a few of my own (re skills, battle variations, gear), but don't agree with other some of the other points (eg, found the game controls easy to use). I have played the game through twice, and love certain aspects of it, particularly in regard to the development of relationships between the PC and NPCs. Yet others are really dissappointing (opening a locked chest, for eg, has always been an exciting part of any rpg I've played, but DA completely ruined that aspect imo).

Howvwer, one thing that really bugs me is when fans respond to criticisms with: "if you don't like it, don't play it" or characterise the poster as a troll. If someone has condemned the game because it in no way measures up to their expectations, then they have the right (imo) to express their dissatisfaction, especially when confronted by hundreds of posts stating how and why the game is so brilliant upon logging on to the community.

I see an analogy with music (I am a musician myself). If a friend of mine loves Michael Buble or Kenny G (was huge in Taiwan) and tells me so, then I practice a "live and let live" philosphy, and leave well enough alone. But if that same person tries hard to convince me of the respective merits of these performers then the gloves are off and I won't be held responsible if they no longer feel quite so good about their favorite singers afterwards. In other words, the only time to burst a bubble is when someone is blowing it in your face. The same applies if someone tries too hard to convert me to their religion.

If someone has played the game 6 times, then the last person they want to hear from is a player who is singularly unimpressed. However, that doesn't mean that the disgruntled customer must remain silent (or is no longer part of the game community by default). The fan can either ignore or argue against negative opinions, not simply deny their right to be expressed, without being undemocratic.

Excellent post.

[MagRR]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for your comments - they provided ample food for thought. I have some replies to your posts you might wish to consider - I've tried to precis the comments to save space:

Comment 1) I am a troll and if I don't like computer games should play board games.

I would like to defend myself and assure you I am committed to pc gaming. What I can't stand is sub-standard products released at full prices by large corporations who should know better. I want computer games to keep evolving and improving but this will not happen with mainstream games if the gaming community meekly accepts second rate productions like this. The latest evolution in graphics technology is DirectX 11. I must question whether this is of any use if the main developers can't make current games look good using DirectX 9 as here. If we allow this to continue well made games will only be produced by small independent operators such as CDProject (The Witcher) and be few and far between.

Comment 2) It is the story that matters not the way the game works

I agree the story is essential to producing a good game. I personally thought Crysis was a bit dull and predictable and the fantastic graphics could not turn it into a great game only a good one. However I think a good story is not enough - the immersion in the story line is ruined if you are constantly faced with bad graphics, clunky controls, racing processors and five minute loading times as here. This game might contain a good story but the rest of the package distracts from it. One of my favourite RPG's ever is Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines. However I couldn't play it when I first bought it as it was so flawed - it was shockingly bad. Years later it was unofficially patched by a chap called Wesp who I think had been involved with Half Life so knew what he was doing. The result was a masterpiece once the game had been fixed to match the quality of the story. There might be a great story trying to get out here but I won't persevere until the game itself is fixed. One essential difference between that game and this is that the release of Vampire was rushed before the game was complete because the developer was going bust. That is not the case here as EA is a large profitable organisation. Instead it looks more like a case of cutting corners to boost short term profit. When will firms learn that such measures may come back to haunt you in the long term when sensible customers go elsewhere?

Comment 3) All games have bugs and we should expect it

I agree computer games are complicated products and bugs are inevitable. However developers release patches to correct such bugs and Bioware do not seem to be doing so. I'm using patch 1.02a and it mainly seems to rebalance the game difficulty. However if we look at the situation here I don't think we are talking about bugs that can only be discovered in live testing. I think we are talking about serious engine faults (cores running at 100%, memory leaks). Bioware must have known about these before release (or should have done if they were doing their job properly) which is indefensible. To make an analogy, if I buy a new Jaguar car I do not expect it to be perfect. However after running it in I take it back to the dealer who rectifies any minor faults - this is what patching should do. What I don't expect is for it to be delivered and find it can't steer to the right for example (Ford Mondeo) - that is a major design fault which should be addressed before launch. I think this represents the situation here.

Comment 4) The game must run on lower spec systems and high resolution graphics would prevent this

I agree we can't expect everyone to have a high end system and games should run on lower end systems. However the aims of those with high end and those with low end systems are not mutually exclusive. All games including this one have different graphics settings (low, medium, high etc) so games can run well on systems of different specs. However in this game the highest setting is still low compared to most modern games. I use a reasonably fast system (Core i7 920, 6GB RAM, GTX 285 2GB, Velociraptor) but the procesing power is wasted on this game other than to stop the overheating caused by the core usage problem. What I want is better textures that higher end systems can benefit from without preventing slower systems from running at all. The game settings allow you to use high detail textures but the textures in the folder this selects simply are not high enough. In addition the core textures which are used at all detail levels are 256x256 whereas the modern standard is 1024x1024. This means they contain 1/16th of the nomal detail. Modern computers should be able to run 1024x1024 unless there are problems with the game engine. This seems to be the situation here but the developers are failing to fix the problem. If Bioware were competent we could all enjoy a better looking game despite having different spec computers.

Comment 5) The controls are fine so what are you moaning about

I still think the controls are poor and should be improved. In all the other games I play I move the mouse to look around - here I have to hold the right mouse button. To move in other games I press W. Here I have to press W and hold the right mouse button. This might seem like a minor gripe but the movement contol is the one you use all the time so it is vital you are comfortable with it and I am not. You can use a macro on your mouse to sort the walk problem but you still have to right mouse to just look around so it is not ideal. There is no way to remap these actions unfortunately. I think this is a symptom of lazy development. The game uses right mouse for most actions. It is as if gaming mice with the extra buttons were never invented - very retro. This is so simple to fix during development it really annoys me. Bioware have a history of messing up on this area - they added an extra camera view in NWN 2 to make it more user friendly via one of the myriad of patches for that game - I didn't like those controls either.Games like Vampire (referred to above) which date back to 2004 have this simpler , easier movement system I prefer and also offer first person view (which is easier on those with lower end graphics card for that matter) - why is this game so far behind the times?

Comment 6) Bioware are a trusted, familiar developer and we should all support them.

Bioware developed Baldur's Gate II which started me on pc gaming. I tried to pretend NWN was good out of loyalty to Bioware when in reality it was poor compared to BGII. This is an example of misguided loyalty. Apparently it is rife in pc gaming. I was reading recently that fanboyism is common in the community in relation to graphics cards. Some are loyal fans of Nvidia and some of ATI/AMD and ignore all the evidence. This is strange as both are just pieces of electronics - they are not football teams where loyalty and irrational behaviour can be justified. The same is happening here but this is not even the proper Bioware, just a brand name. The company was sold years ago and the people moved on. It is now just a division of EA, a faceless corporate giant with no soul (I'm getting carried away now). There is no logic to showing them loyalty any more. If they cannot deliver quality product they should be called to account and made to improve.

Comment 7) The younger generation don't care about quality anymore so I am an old dinosaur (not in so many words)

Bit ageist! On a more philosophical front there seems some truth in this. However look at the economic mess this lazy attitude has got us into. If you just accept everything is rubbish because that is the norm you exhibit a complete defeatist attitude. What we need to do is halt this frightening decline in standards or we may as well slit our wrists now!

I look forward to any further comments but please note that the above represent my honestly held opinions only. I am not saying something is bad - fact - I am saying it is bad in my opinion.

Regards

Mag

[jsachun]

K.I.S.S

[Apex Sammoth]

MagRR wrote...

Hi Everyone

Thanks for your comments - they provided ample food for thought. I have some replies to your posts you might wish to consider - I've tried to precis the comments to save space:

Comment 1) I am a troll and if I don't like computer games should play board games.

I would like to defend myself and assure you I am committed to pc gaming. What I can't stand is sub-standard products released at full prices by large corporations who should know better. I want computer games to keep evolving and improving but this will not happen with mainstream games if the gaming community meekly accepts second rate productions like this. The latest evolution in graphics technology is DirectX 11. I must question whether this is of any use if the main developers can't make current games look good using DirectX 9 as here. If we allow this to continue well made games will only be produced by small independent operators such as CDProject (The Witcher) and be few and far between.

Comment 2) It is the story that matters not the way the game works

I agree the story is essential to producing a good game. I personally thought Crysis was a bit dull and predictable and the fantastic graphics could not turn it into a great game only a good one. However I think a good story is not enough - the immersion in the story line is ruined if you are constantly faced with bad graphics, clunky controls, racing processors and five minute loading times as here. This game might contain a good story but the rest of the package distracts from it. One of my favourite RPG's ever is Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines. However I couldn't play it when I first bought it as it was so flawed - it was shockingly bad. Years later it was unofficially patched by a chap called Wesp who I think had been involved with Half Life so knew what he was doing. The result was a masterpiece once the game had been fixed to match the quality of the story. There might be a great story trying to get out here but I won't persevere until the game itself is fixed. One essential difference between that game and this is that the release of Vampire was rushed before the game was complete because the developer was going bust. That is not the case here as EA is a large profitable organisation. Instead it looks more like a case of cutting corners to boost short term profit. When will firms learn that such measures may come back to haunt you in the long term when sensible customers go elsewhere?

Comment 3) All games have bugs and we should expect it

I agree computer games are complicated products and bugs are inevitable. However developers release patches to correct such bugs and Bioware do not seem to be doing so. I'm using patch 1.02a and it mainly seems to rebalance the game difficulty. However if we look at the situation here I don't think we are talking about bugs that can only be discovered in live testing. I think we are talking about serious engine faults (cores running at 100%, memory leaks). Bioware must have known about these before release (or should have done if they were doing their job properly) which is indefensible. To make an analogy, if I buy a new Jaguar car I do not expect it to be perfect. However after running it in I take it back to the dealer who rectifies any minor faults - this is what patching should do. What I don't expect is for it to be delivered and find it can't steer to the right for example (Ford Mondeo) - that is a major design fault which should be addressed before launch. I think this represents the situation here.

Comment 4) The game must run on lower spec systems and high resolution graphics would prevent this

I agree we can't expect everyone to have a high end system and games should run on lower end systems. However the aims of those with high end and those with low end systems are not mutually exclusive. All games including this one have different graphics settings (low, medium, high etc) so games can run well on systems of different specs. However in this game the highest setting is still low compared to most modern games. I use a reasonably fast system (Core i7 920, 6GB RAM, GTX 285 2GB, Velociraptor) but the procesing power is wasted on this game other than to stop the overheating caused by the core usage problem. What I want is better textures that higher end systems can benefit from without preventing slower systems from running at all. The game settings allow you to use high detail textures but the textures in the folder this selects simply are not high enough. In addition the core textures which are used at all detail levels are 256x256 whereas the modern standard is 1024x1024. This means they contain 1/16th of the nomal detail. Modern computers should be able to run 1024x1024 unless there are problems with the game engine. This seems to be the situation here but the developers are failing to fix the problem. If Bioware were competent we could all enjoy a better looking game despite having different spec computers.

Comment 5) The controls are fine so what are you moaning about

I still think the controls are poor and should be improved. In all the other games I play I move the mouse to look around - here I have to hold the right mouse button. To move in other games I press W. Here I have to press W and hold the right mouse button. This might seem like a minor gripe but the movement contol is the one you use all the time so it is vital you are comfortable with it and I am not. You can use a macro on your mouse to sort the walk problem but you still have to right mouse to just look around so it is not ideal. There is no way to remap these actions unfortunately. I think this is a symptom of lazy development. The game uses right mouse for most actions. It is as if gaming mice with the extra buttons were never invented - very retro. This is so simple to fix during development it really annoys me. Bioware have a history of messing up on this area - they added an extra camera view in NWN 2 to make it more user friendly via one of the myriad of patches for that game - I didn't like those controls either.Games like Vampire (referred to above) which date back to 2004 have this simpler , easier movement system I prefer and also offer first person view (which is easier on those with lower end graphics card for that matter) - why is this game so far behind the times?

Comment 6) Bioware are a trusted, familiar developer and we should all support them.

Bioware developed Baldur's Gate II which started me on pc gaming. I tried to pretend NWN was good out of loyalty to Bioware when in reality it was poor compared to BGII. This is an example of misguided loyalty. Apparently it is rife in pc gaming. I was reading recently that fanboyism is common in the community in relation to graphics cards. Some are loyal fans of Nvidia and some of ATI/AMD and ignore all the evidence. This is strange as both are just pieces of electronics - they are not football teams where loyalty and irrational behaviour can be justified. The same is happening here but this is not even the proper Bioware, just a brand name. The company was sold years ago and the people moved on. It is now just a division of EA, a faceless corporate giant with no soul (I'm getting carried away now). There is no logic to showing them loyalty any more. If they cannot deliver quality product they should be called to account and made to improve.

Comment 7) The younger generation don't care about quality anymore so I am an old dinosaur (not in so many words)

Bit ageist! On a more philosophical front there seems some truth in this. However look at the economic mess this lazy attitude has got us into. If you just accept everything is rubbish because that is the norm you exhibit a complete defeatist attitude. What we need to do is halt this frightening decline in standards or we may as well slit our wrists now!

I look forward to any further comments but please note that the above represent my honestly held opinions only. I am not saying something is bad - fact - I am saying it is bad in my opinion.

Regards

Mag

BRAVO we need more people like you in the gamming industry.

[phordicus]

Peeker2009 wrote...
 In other words, the only time to burst a bubble is when someone is blowing it in your face.

did you come up with that?  that's a brilliant analogy.

[ladydesire]

Elfwhykay wrote...

FOr this game to use 100% cpu on multiple cores and burn up my graphics card, it should have the most amazing graphics in the world, it should be like im actually there. This game is more pixilated than TESIII morrowind is, and that is during CUTSCENES! How can a cutscene have bad graphics. I noticed a lot of bad terrain merging as well, and I could see through the bottoms of bridges and undernearth buildings in a few places, sloppy work.

The memory leak problem is really pissing me off as well, I would love my$50 back for this game very much as I can hardly load the game anymore without crashing 5 minutes later.

I also don't understand how bioware messed up DAO since its pretty much 8 year old neverwinter nights with voice acting, nothing more except lots more bugs.

It's not Neverwinter Nights with voice acting; it's an entirely new game engine, written from scratch.

Going to go play some 10 year old games now, which have no issues. Probably neverwinter nights. ALSO bioware how about trying to let me buy wyvern crown of cormyr so I dont need to pirate it kay?

I'd love to buy WCoC myself, but it's not up to Bioware or EA as to whether we'll ever have the option to do so again; take up your complaint with Hasbro, since they are the ones that made Bioware stop selling the NWN Premium Modules.

[ShinsFortress]

I like the games that Bioware make, but QA has been getting worse. It has never been great, but since NWN2 I have found a steady decline....