106 réponses à ce sujet

[sunnydxmen]

 In final fantasy games healing undead enemies harms them ,skyrim dawnguard dlcdlc adds spells to healing where you can harm the undead with them ,i think spirit healer needs to be like that they should be also to damage demons who are spirits.

[Byker]

I never really understood that, why exactly is it needed? I mean it would be cool(slightly) but in all it doesnt make much sense.

[MisanthropePrime]

sunnydxmen wrote...

 In final fantasy games healing undead enemies harms them ,skyrim dawnguard dlcdlc adds spells to healing where you can harm the undead with them ,i think spirit healer needs to be like that they should be also to damage demons who are spirits.

Since when did Bioware make final fantasy games? I mean their female characters are whiny but at least they're not incompetant.

[Orian Tabris]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

sunnydxmen wrote...

 In final fantasy games healing undead enemies harms them ,skyrim dawnguard dlcdlc adds spells to healing where you can harm the undead with them ,i think spirit healer needs to be like that they should be also to damage demons who are spirits.

Since when did Bioware make final fantasy games? I mean their female characters are whiny but at least they're not incompetant.

This coming from the guy who spelt 'incompetent' wrong?


I heartily approve of this idea. I'd also like to be able to heal allies who aren't technically in the party. I think you could in Origins, but for some reason you can't in DA2.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

D&D logic was that healing magic stemmed from positive energy, and the undead were powered by negative energy. Thus positive energy spells, like Heal, would be damaging to the undead, while negative energy spells would renew them.

I don't see it making sense in Dragon Age however.

[sunnydxmen]

Well if they gonna keep healing weak they need to give spirit healer something to compensate that.

[KillTheWiseOne]

I never understood this system, does it assume that undead run on negative hit points? Or is it simply that healing = good, and undead = evil.

[TEWR]

As much as I liked how this was a thing for some games, it wouldn't actually work for DA. The undead in Dragon Age aren't actually undead. They're just possessed corpses. More to the point, healing would have to have some sort of connection to something pure and good.

[Xerxes52]

No thanks. Healing being used only for healing is fine imo.

sunnydxmen wrote...

Well if they gonna keep healing weak they need to give spirit healer something to compensate that.

Allowing Spirit Healers to cast offensive spells with Healing Aura on or removing the sustainable requirement for Group Heal and Revive would fix that.

[brushyourteeth]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

As much as I liked how this was a thing for some games, it wouldn't actually work for DA. The undead in Dragon Age aren't actually undead. They're just possessed corpses. More to the point, healing would have to have some sort of connection to something pure and good.

What TEWR said.

[Kidd]

Doesn't work with the Dragon Age setting.

[KiwiQuiche]

Yeah why would I waste a heal spell on undead when I can just hurl a fireball at them or heal my allies?

[Harle Cerulean]

Doesn't fit in the setting. The 'why' behind healing hurting the undead is that healing is based in holiness/purity, and that's harmful to the undead. In Thedas, healing is simply magic, which is neither good nor evil.

While I admit that in some of the Final Fantasies, it was hilarious to toss one full-heal spell or potion on an undead boss and watch it die in one hit, Dragon Age is Dragon Age, not Final Fantasy, and I'd rather they adhere to their own lore.

[Nefla]

I remember in Final Fantasy 9 there was this one boss that was difficult to beat, but it was undead so you could just through 1 phoenix down on it and it instantly died lol.

But yeah FF13 (the first hour at least, that was all I could suffer through) was what finally put me off JRPGs forever, I'd rather not have jrpg stuff leaking into my western games any more than it already has. (DA2 and ME3 were bad enough in that reguard)

Modifié par Nefla, 05 mars 2013 - 07:31 .

[AshenShug4r]

That doesn't make much sense to me. You're essentially repairing a corpse. Why would it do damage?

[Foolsfolly]

AshenShug4r wrote...

That doesn't make much sense to me. You're essentially repairing a corpse. Why would it do damage?

Because a bunch of old games use that mechanic.

But it works in those games because there's usually a 'Good' and 'Evil' force(s) in those universes. And the healing spells are almost always tied to some good deity. So that holy light burns the unclean body of a zombie... or something to a skeleton.

I don't see it workign in Dragon Age. Not because there aren't 'good' and 'evil' deities or anything. But just because two games, a movie, an expansion, a dozen books and comic books, and a dozen DLC exist and healing spells do not do anything to the dead.

Except maybe heal the corpses you can raise in DA:O. I don't remember if you could heal those or not.

[AshenShug4r]

I don't really see the dark/light dichotomy in Dragon Age.

[Pride Demon]

KillTheWiseOne wrote...

I never understood this system, does it assume that undead run on negative hit points? Or is it simply that healing = good, and undead = evil.

Like others said, it stems from D&D and it's more like living creatures = positive energy, undead creatures = negative energy, no evil-vs-good enters into it...

Technically, there's no such a thing as a "healing" spell in D&D, only various spells that channel various tipes of energy, it just so happens that, since mortal souls normally are nourished by positive energy, if the target is a living creature, spells that channel positive energy cure an amount of wounds equal to the "damage" they would otherwise inflict, conversely spells channeling negative energy hurt the souls (that's what causes Level Drain) and bodies of living creatures.

Undead are basically souls that due to some sort of corruption are chained to the mortal world by negative energy bindings (whether this also binds them to a body - vampires, liches, etc... - or leaves them as floating spirits - ghosts, wraiths, banshees, etc... - is irrelevant). Suffering damage from spells channeling negative energy strengthens this binding, thereby healing the undead, conversely spells channeling positive energy weaken it, thereby hurting the undead...

The fact positive channeling spells are called "cure wounds" and negative channeling ones "inflict wounds" is a convention to make things easier to understand both from a metagame perspective (players generally play as living creatures, not undead) and an in game lore perspective (the greatest majority of the D&D civilizations happen to be composed of living creatures, not undead)...

All this however only makes sense in a world with the peculiar planar setting D&D has, we have no indication a similar situation exist in the Dragon Age setting, so I really don't see how this would make sense in DA (at least as of now), especially considering DA's undead are not strictly speaking undead... :/

[metatheurgist]

Nefla wrote...
 I'd rather not have jrpg stuff leaking into my western games any more than it already has. (DA2 and ME3 were bad enough in that reguard)

Except that healing damaging undead is a DnD construct and DnD is the progenitor of Western RPGs. But I agree that DA is a different universe with different rules and healing damaging undead doesn't make sense in DA.

[DPSSOC]

sunnydxmen wrote...

 In final fantasy games healing undead enemies harms them ,skyrim dawnguard dlcdlc adds spells to healing where you can harm the undead with them ,i think spirit healer needs to be like that they should be also to damage demons who are spirits.

As has been stated the healing damaging undead doesn't work for the Dragon Age setting, how undead work in universe healing them would do just that.  In D&D at least healing is directly opposed to necromantic magic, they utilize polarized energy to achieve what they do, that's why healing damages undead.  In Dragon Age healing comes from the Creation School while raising the dead comes from Spirit, but they both use the same energy to achieve their results, it's just how they're used.

For the bold however I'm not sure I understand your logic.  Spirit Healers just get their power from spirits, they don't have any particular effect on them.  If there were some mage specialization that focused on the Spirit School (Healing, even for a Spirit Healer, is Creation) I could see them having some benefit against demons and the like.

[Fast Jimmy]

I believe this stemmed from the concept that most healing spells were done by clerics originally, who were priests of a holy order. Hence, their holy spells could do damage to unholy, unnatural beings like the undead.

In the dragon age lore, it doesn't make much sense. Spells designed to repair damage should either have no effect or heal the enemy. Knitting bone and tissue together should work just as well on any body, whether it is a living being damaged from a sword or an undead one damaged by rot.

[Medhia Nox]

As for why it was originally done in D&D - Shadow of Light explained it 15 posts up - and Pride Demon explained it again for everyone who ignored the first explanation.

It wouldn't work in Dragon Age.

If there were "Anti-Demon" spells - that should work though.

The question is: What does a healing spell do? Does it cause a sped up version of natural healing processes? Does it simply "fill in blank spaces"?

The only possibility I could see making it work - is if they somehow explained that the healing energy from the Spirit could damage the demon in the undead body.

[Heimdall]

Pretty much what others have said. It makes no sense why healing would hurt the undead in Dragon Age. They're just possessed corpses.

[Quirkylilela]

Since when was healing weak? I found it to be incredibly powerful.