578 réponses à ce sujet

[EJ42]

cinderburster wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

Just out of curiosity, what exactly IS your definition of a "manly man" in video games, mistah EJ42? Conan the Barbarian?

Link to the post where I said "manly."  I'll just go ahead on to bed while you look for it.

At most, I said "man's man," meaning a man that other men respect and look up to.

I wouldn't want to get into an argument about the definition of "manly" after the craziness of the role definitions discussion.

This just goes again to prove that very few people in this thread even know what they're responding to.

I'm actually not going to argue with you here, I did in fact use the wrong term.  I meant "man's man" and my brain and my fingers had a rather large disconnect.

So, allow me to rephrase:  What, exactly, is your definition of a "man's man" in gaming, barring all of that jazz about men's roles in society and how Alistair doesn't fit any of them from earlier?

For one, no whining is allowed.

For another, life sucks pretty much all around.  How you respond to whatever situation you're thrown into is what defines you as a person.  Say your parents died, and you ended up in an orphanage.  You can't undo that.  Should you cry about it?  Sure.  There's an acceptable mourning period, but beyond that it's up to you to deal with it.  No one else can live your life for you.

It's like Alistair doesn't want to be held accountable for anything.  He is not an effective leader in the beginning.  He's far too dependent upon the new recruit when he should be the one doing the mentoring.

Look at the list of character references I gave.  They dealt with their situations well, and I believe their friends respected them for it. (fictional as they all may be)

[EJ42]

Ethan009 wrote...

And my faith in humanity has plummeted <_<

DA is on consoles. You do realize this yes?

There is a difference between a console game and a game that is also on consoles.

Metal Gear is console-only.  It's not a PC game.

Also, as we've reached the Michael Jordan page, I am now done with this discussion.

In summary:

1) Alistair is too whiny and lacks accountability.  This gives me a low opinion of him.
2) I have my own idealized version of how a man should carry himself in public (which is not directly related to how he interacts with his woman in private).  It's a view that many people of the younger generations probably have a hard time comprehending.
3) I do not want to hear your girlfriend voice.  Keep that between you and her.
4) Consoles are not for serious games.
5) My opinion is beyond reproach.  Anything less than agreeing with me is a waste of your time.
6) Goodnight.

Modifié par EJ42, 13 janvier 2010 - 06:00 .

[ZeroR3D]

As much as I dislike Alistair, at least he wasn't a quitter

Modifié par ZeroR3D, 13 janvier 2010 - 06:08 .

[Bootsykk]

Alistair is a little overrated in my opinion. I love the guy, and he's hilarious and adorable (not to mention chivalrous... mm!), but SERIOUSLY, LADIES? He's such a pushover! Even with things he's passionate about...



Example: "Why did you use blood magic?! Ar rawr rar! Hisss! Aglasbadask!"

"STFU Alistair."

"...Okay... "



Either that, or he just gets pissed and does irrational things.



Personally, I like Zevran the most for male characters. His romance never ceases to make me laugh and, at the end, just feel all warm and fuzzy inside. As a companion as well he's surprisingly enjoyable to talk to if you politely decline his come ons.

[Monica21]

Ethan009 wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

And my faith in humanity has plummeted <_<

DA is on consoles. You do realize this yes?

There is a difference between a console game and a game that is also on consoles.

Metal Gear is console-only.  It's not a PC game.

Also, as we've reached the Michael Jordan page, I am now done with this discussion.

In summary:

1) Alistair is too whiny and lacks accountability.  This gives me a low opinion of him.
2) I have my own idealized version of how a man should carry himself in public (which is not directly related to how he interacts with his woman in private).  It's a view that many people of the younger generations probably have a hard time comprehending.
3) I do not want to hear your girlfriend voice.  Keep that between you and her.
4) Consoles are not for serious games.
5) My opinion is beyond reproach.  Anything less than agreeing with me is a waste of your time.
6) Goodnight.

*facepalm*

OMG he doesn't even realize the fact that MGS is a mature game regardless of it being on consoles >_>

And aren't 2 of those games in that series on PC? *goes check* Yup on PC.

Guess the fact that it was developed for consoles first then ported to PC means what it grew up when ported? <_<

I like Zev but his romance felt flat to me (Yes I did it all the way to the end) then again all the romances except for Morrigan's (who I hate T_T) made me feel that way.

In defense of EJ (and I'm surprised I'm doing this) just because a game is rated Mature doesn't mean it's for serious games. Consoles are, by definition, for the dumbed down game. The controls are seriously lacking because there isn't the flexibility of a full sized keyboard. There are other reasons too, but on that point, I do agree with him.

[Frozeal]

Monica21 wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

And my faith in humanity has plummeted <_<

DA is on consoles. You do realize this yes?

There is a difference between a console game and a game that is also on consoles.

Metal Gear is console-only.  It's not a PC game.

Also, as we've reached the Michael Jordan page, I am now done with this discussion.

In summary:

1) Alistair is too whiny and lacks accountability.  This gives me a low opinion of him.
2) I have my own idealized version of how a man should carry himself in public (which is not directly related to how he interacts with his woman in private).  It's a view that many people of the younger generations probably have a hard time comprehending.
3) I do not want to hear your girlfriend voice.  Keep that between you and her.
4) Consoles are not for serious games.
5) My opinion is beyond reproach.  Anything less than agreeing with me is a waste of your time.
6) Goodnight.

*facepalm*

OMG he doesn't even realize the fact that MGS is a mature game regardless of it being on consoles >_>

And aren't 2 of those games in that series on PC? *goes check* Yup on PC.

Guess the fact that it was developed for consoles first then ported to PC means what it grew up when ported? <_<

I like Zev but his romance felt flat to me (Yes I did it all the way to the end) then again all the romances except for Morrigan's (who I hate T_T) made me feel that way.

In defense of EJ (and I'm surprised I'm doing this) just because a game is rated Mature doesn't mean it's for serious games. Consoles are, by definition, for the dumbed down game. The controls are seriously lacking because there isn't the flexibility of a full sized keyboard. There are other reasons too, but on that point, I do agree with him.

The things one can do with a keyboard... oh yes... he he he

Read that with Oghren's voice in mind

[Dahelia]

Monica21 wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

And my faith in humanity has plummeted <_<

DA is on consoles. You do realize this yes?

There is a difference between a console game and a game that is also on consoles.

Metal Gear is console-only.  It's not a PC game.

Also, as we've reached the Michael Jordan page, I am now done with this discussion.

In summary:

1) Alistair is too whiny and lacks accountability.  This gives me a low opinion of him.
2) I have my own idealized version of how a man should carry himself in public (which is not directly related to how he interacts with his woman in private).  It's a view that many people of the younger generations probably have a hard time comprehending.
3) I do not want to hear your girlfriend voice.  Keep that between you and her.
4) Consoles are not for serious games.
5) My opinion is beyond reproach.  Anything less than agreeing with me is a waste of your time.
6) Goodnight.

*facepalm*

OMG he doesn't even realize the fact that MGS is a mature game regardless of it being on consoles >_>

And aren't 2 of those games in that series on PC? *goes check* Yup on PC.

Guess the fact that it was developed for consoles first then ported to PC means what it grew up when ported? <_<

I like Zev but his romance felt flat to me (Yes I did it all the way to the end) then again all the romances except for Morrigan's (who I hate T_T) made me feel that way.

In defense of EJ (and I'm surprised I'm doing this) just because a game is rated Mature doesn't mean it's for serious games. Consoles are, by definition, for the dumbed down game. The controls are seriously lacking because there isn't the flexibility of a full sized keyboard. There are other reasons too, but on that point, I do agree with him.

[Ibian]

Huh. Exia actually did that? Which episode is it from?

[RoninOmega]

I think how most bioware fans(just like me ) easily call a guy overrated for having their little whiny side is overrated.  Allistair is pretty epic, and only got fussy at the landsmeet, which if I were in his shoes it's understandable on his side.

[Frozeal]

Dahelia wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

And my faith in humanity has plummeted <_<

DA is on consoles. You do realize this yes?

There is a difference between a console game and a game that is also on consoles.

Metal Gear is console-only.  It's not a PC game.

Also, as we've reached the Michael Jordan page, I am now done with this discussion.

In summary:

1) Alistair is too whiny and lacks accountability.  This gives me a low opinion of him.
2) I have my own idealized version of how a man should carry himself in public (which is not directly related to how he interacts with his woman in private).  It's a view that many people of the younger generations probably have a hard time comprehending.
3) I do not want to hear your girlfriend voice.  Keep that between you and her.
4) Consoles are not for serious games.
5) My opinion is beyond reproach.  Anything less than agreeing with me is a waste of your time.
6) Goodnight.

*facepalm*

OMG he doesn't even realize the fact that MGS is a mature game regardless of it being on consoles >_>

And aren't 2 of those games in that series on PC? *goes check* Yup on PC.

Guess the fact that it was developed for consoles first then ported to PC means what it grew up when ported? <_<

I like Zev but his romance felt flat to me (Yes I did it all the way to the end) then again all the romances except for Morrigan's (who I hate T_T) made me feel that way.

In defense of EJ (and I'm surprised I'm doing this) just because a game is rated Mature doesn't mean it's for serious games. Consoles are, by definition, for the dumbed down game. The controls are seriously lacking because there isn't the flexibility of a full sized keyboard. There are other reasons too, but on that point, I do agree with him.

Prolly they have bought console and realized that the have no gaems, so they want to live a self created fantasy where things are how the think they should be according to their own beliefs so they don't have to re-think everything again...

10:1 they believe in some sort of higher power and/or any theological concept like "soul"

[Dahelia]

Frozeal wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

And my faith in humanity has plummeted <_<

DA is on consoles. You do realize this yes?

There is a difference between a console game and a game that is also on consoles.

Metal Gear is console-only.  It's not a PC game.

Also, as we've reached the Michael Jordan page, I am now done with this discussion.

In summary:

1) Alistair is too whiny and lacks accountability.  This gives me a low opinion of him.
2) I have my own idealized version of how a man should carry himself in public (which is not directly related to how he interacts with his woman in private).  It's a view that many people of the younger generations probably have a hard time comprehending.
3) I do not want to hear your girlfriend voice.  Keep that between you and her.
4) Consoles are not for serious games.
5) My opinion is beyond reproach.  Anything less than agreeing with me is a waste of your time.
6) Goodnight.

*facepalm*

OMG he doesn't even realize the fact that MGS is a mature game regardless of it being on consoles >_>

And aren't 2 of those games in that series on PC? *goes check* Yup on PC.

Guess the fact that it was developed for consoles first then ported to PC means what it grew up when ported? <_<

I like Zev but his romance felt flat to me (Yes I did it all the way to the end) then again all the romances except for Morrigan's (who I hate T_T) made me feel that way.

In defense of EJ (and I'm surprised I'm doing this) just because a game is rated Mature doesn't mean it's for serious games. Consoles are, by definition, for the dumbed down game. The controls are seriously lacking because there isn't the flexibility of a full sized keyboard. There are other reasons too, but on that point, I do agree with him.

Prolly they have bought console and realized that the have no gaems, so they want to live a self created fantasy where things are how the think they should be according to their own beliefs so they don't have to re-think everything again...

10:1 they believe in some sort of higher power and/or any theological concept like "soul"

Actually I have all the consoles...including 3 XBOX 360s, a PS3, Wii, PS2, XBOX, Gamecube...NES, SNES...etc...Oh and I also have a PC I built myself in which I play Left 4 Dead, Civ III and Civ IV, Dragon Age: Origins. I happen to enjoy both the PC and the consoles. Sitting here fighting about something so retarded as the PC being better than the consoles does nothing for any cause. People will play what they want on whatever system they want. There is no point, it is like saying "Which is better Apple Pie or Cherry Pie" it is all a matter of opinion.

[Zafezase]

The only thing that I find better about PC gaming with certain games is the fact that you can mess with the toolsets. I've always been a console fan, never really having had a PC that I could truly "game" on, but I have played on a good PC before.



Yea, it's nice and all...but I like the simplicity of being able to simply put a game into my console and press start to play without having to load up all of the updates that PC users might have made changes to. Consoles are in no way "less mature" than PCs. They just don't have as many options.

[grallonsphere]

Guys opening threads wondering why people enjoy a pixelized sexy male reminds me of guys muttering about girls liking this or that "pretty sissy" heartrob actor/singer; inferiority complex perhaps?



Alistair is a well written, well rendered, well acted character - that's why he's popular.

[jxd73]

He's an emo f*gg*t, but I guess that's what's in nowadays.

[Lith Maethor]

*eyes EJ42*

"you, sir, obviously used cunning as your dump stat and lack any coercion skills. i challenge you to a duel"

*grabs juggernaut gauntlet*

[Dahelia]

jxd73 wrote...

He's an emo f*gg*t, but I guess that's what's in nowadays.

Better than dating someTHING like you...

[xgiovedi]

Dahelia wrote...

Actually I have all the consoles...including 3 XBOX 360s, a PS3, Wii, PS2, XBOX, Gamecube...NES, SNES...etc...Oh and I also have a PC I built myself in which I play Left 4 Dead, Civ III and Civ IV, Dragon Age: Origins. I happen to enjoy both the PC and the consoles. Sitting here fighting about something so retarded as the PC being better than the consoles does nothing for any cause. People will play what they want on whatever system they want. There is no point, it is like saying "Which is better Apple Pie or Cherry Pie" it is all a matter of opinion.

Absolutely! I'm the same way. I'm shocked at the amount of console vs. pc wars happening on this forum today lol. 
There are some console ports that are brought over to pc that are terrible. Seriouslly, terrible. PC also sometimes lacks support for multiplayer. Both have their ups and downs, but this "PC gamers are the superior race" is silly. Some games I have on both PC and console.

I have to second, third, etc Metal Gear Solid series being really beautiful. I don't think the dualshock technology would have translated well in many parts of the game.

[maxernst]

I am very surprised by the number of people who see Alistair as a bland or self-righteous character, a successor to the tradition of boring paladin-type characters. He seems to be very nuanced and well-written. He’s not perfect, but the strength of Dragon Age: Origins is that the character’s flaws are explicable—and to my mind, forgivable—by their circumstances.



Consider his upbringing. He’s a bastard, an embarrassment to his father. Arl Emon takes him on as a favor to his father, then effectively gets rid of him by sending him to the Templars. If you think about how Eamon’s wife viewed sending Conor to the Circle, you get some idea of just how much they valued Alistair. Like Morrigan, he was unloved as a child. It’s not that surprising that when he was chosen by Duncan, he developed a huge man-crush—someone who he actually valued him for who he was, rather than as a potential bargaining chip in a power game. Suddenly, he was part of an organization that gave him a purpose to his life that he could believe in, unlike the Templars. Is it really so surprising that the destruction of that organization and the death of a man who was like a surrogate father to him was devastating? It’s not like he has a few months mourning period to get over it; he’s thrust back into the action. And yet, rather than decide that Ferelden is a lost cause and go off in search of Grey Wardens elsewhere, he soldiers on with another Grey Warden even more junior than himself.



And sure, Ferelden needs a king but it’s very far from clear that that king needs to be him. First of all, bastards weren’t normally considered in succession lines. In the cases that I am familiar with (William the Conqueror) that bastards inherited, they were acknowledged by their fathers during life and designated as heirs. I am not aware of any cases of a bastard surfacing after the father’s death and being accepted as ruler. I’m not saying it never happened in human history, but I’m sure it was rare. And if it did happen, I’m guessing it happened because he was backed by someone who had the political clout to force him to be recognized and he was more figurehead than ruler. His claim on the throne is not really that strong.



Furthermore, unlike someone like William the Conqueror, he’s completely unprepared for rule. He has no experience of the royal court and was never trained in statesmanship or leadership. Is it really so unreasonable for him to doubt his ability to rule? Almost any first-born noble son in the kingdom would be better qualified by life experiences. Is it so terrible for him to think somebody who was trained as a leader and ruler from birth (even if expected to inherit on a much smaller scale) would be better on the throne? It’s not that he doesn’t wish to serve Ferelden, it’s that he wishes to serve Ferelden competently. He thinks he’s more competent to fight monsters under somebody’s else’s command than to rule a kingdom.



Sometimes he is self-righteous, but what do you expect of someone who was raised by the chantry? I think Morrigan is just as judgemental, in her own way.



Alistair is sweet, funny, insecure, immature, and yes, lovable.



WOAD69, it seems that with Loghaine, you’re taking his own self-justifying words as truth. Practically every tyrant in human history claims to have the interests of the nation at stake. No doubt Stalin would have said the same thing. Loghaine lies to us (and maybe to himself), to rationalize his own treachery and naked power grab.