342 réponses à ce sujet

[Hausner85]

So we got another broken overpowered kit. As always in this situation some of the players starts to ask for a nerf and some oppose them. I’m nerfer, I must admit to that. I’m also proud to be one... This post i dedicated to those that think we are trying to destroy your game. We are not. In fact we are trying to save it even while you can’t see it. 

Have you ask yourself how the game would look like without some of the much needed nerfs?

Well imagine that you just started you first MP game. You have Avenger I on your Hsol level I. Then three Drell Assassins (lev 20) with Black Widow X and Drill Round III come to you Bronze lobby. You will barely see an enemy nevermind killing something for the whole match. Was that fun? I don’t think so... This is what OP kit/weapons do to the game. They make playing other kit/weapons frustrating and unrewarding.  I know I’m exaggerating here but not very much. If there are overpowered kit/weapons in the game all (but the very best) players are forced to use them. You can argue as much as you want but the truth is that we all are a competitive bunch and in order to compete with best weapons/kits most players will be forced to make switch to them. Very soon the best thing about ME3MP it’s variety will be dead and again most of the players will be frustrated/bored by playing always the same way. 

So OP kit/weapons can make game boring/frustrating whenever you use them or not. They will always hurt your gaming experience. But there is another problem:

The OP kit/weapons take you where you shouldn’t be. You’re not ready to play Gold but with them you can.... And the filling is great at the beginning. Then after 20 matches it’s only good  after 50-60 you want to switch to something else. You do..... Only to find yourself being completely unable to play with it. You're dying a lot you burn through supplies like crazy and you're failing a lot of missions, and you're always consistently outscored by almost every one, hardly what you call a fun. So you get back to that one weapon/kit that you can play. You play to the point  you’re sick of it and the game as a whole... The newest broken kit the AIU is great example of that. The combination of Infiltrator TC + Repair Matrix will make sure that you that you take very little aggro and when you make a mistake you won’t pay for it. This kit is making sure you will never learn how to time your attacks, how to protect yourself and how to survive on Gold. This kit is promoting stupid and reckless behavior even on gold. It’s hard to see this a good thing even for aspiring players.... 


So  when arguing with players that support nerfs please keep in mind that we don’t want to destroy the game for you. We are trying to protect the game for you even if that means protecting it from yourself. We love this game very much and we have the knowledge and understanding to see how this game can be broken for everyone with bad balance. You may not see this while you struggling to compete on higher level but believe me, we want to preserve it for you in a longer run...

EDIT: One more time if some one didn't understand : YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH ME. But i would be nice if you could see there is some logic in this approach and the goal isn't really to RUIN YOUR GAME.

EDIT 2: Again "The Nerfers love this game more than you do" means that some of us wont this game to be fun, nice and appealing for as long as possible not just easily accessible. Also I wanted to make a strong argument about devotions of some of us for this game and that we contributed more time to it that most of other players. If someone was offended by this statement it wasn't my intention and I'm sorry.

Edit 3: I never stated that I want all things nerfed to the grounds... As an example I would say the first Krysea nerf was Ok the Tgi should never got stimps and the nerf was right for him wrong for havoc. As for now I find three things overpowered: unlimited revives on AUI the undead Juggy and Reegar Dps I would buff much more things starting rare AR. But most people will try to badge me as crybaby elitist or nerf-all-lunatic so they don't have to confront with my ideas. And of course I don't represent all Nerfers just dose that agree with me...

Edit 4: I always thought that most players crave for feeling of achievement like when you become a true gold players. It seems that there are a lot of players that are looking for an easy way in. Whenever i see text like "Mind your own business, why do you care how we play etc." what i really see "You're threaten my easy way in and the (probably) undeserved spot I have thanks to that kit/weapon"

Edit 5: There are already quite few Gold level entry classes (TGI, SI, Hsol, N7 Destroyer, N7 Fury, N7 Demolisher, Hinf, Huntress, Kroguard, Barguard and others) for those that are making a switch. I cannot see why there should be classes/weapons that allow everyone to play Gold without effort. Also i cannot why everyone should be able to play gold. And what separates true gold players from silver one is not skills/classes/weapons it's the understanding of basic game mechanics. And you can learn them quite fast from the very forum we are on..

Edit 6: I know that keeping discussion civilized is hard but if you have nothing to add besides calling me names and trying to insult go play some MP and don't bother posting because in only tells how little you represent with yourself

Modifié par Hausner85, 07 mars 2013 - 02:53 .

[Dracian]

disgonbgud.gif

[Jenyatheawesome]

Why are people upset if easier to use classes allow some people to play on higher difficultieThism s? Cant those people have fun to? If all the classes were balanced as many nerfer's want then where is the variety? This is the last dlc keep in mind so what is the pointvof nerfing anymore since this is all we got? Do games like COD or even Guild Wars 2 nerf players for being too powerful or finding new weapons at a constant rate? Due to this 'righteous' nerfing it is not very accessible to new players who may need a more powerful class to be good at first not to mention many of the classes are dull and pointless to play.

[avenging_teabag]

Hausner85 wrote...


So OP kit/weapons can make game boring/frustrating whenever you use them or not. They will always hurt your gaming experience. But there is another problem:

The OP kit/weapons take you where you shouldn’t be. You’re not ready to play Gold but with them you can.... And the filling is great at the beginning. Then after 20 matches it’s only good  after 50-60 you want to switch to something else. You do..... Only to find yourself being completely unable to play with it. You're dying a lot you burn through supplies like crazy and you're failing a lot of missions, and you're always consistently outscored by almost every one, hardly what you call a fun. So you get back to that one weapon/kit that you can play. You play to the point  you’re sick of it and the game as a whole... The newest broken kit the AIU is great example of that. The combination of Infiltrator TC + Repair Matrix will make sure that you that you take very little aggro and when you make a mistake you won’t pay for it. This kit is making sure you will never learn how to time your attacks, how to protect yourself and how to survive on Gold. This kit is promoting stupid and reckless behavior even on gold. It’s hard to see this a good thing even for aspiring players.... 


So  when arguing with players that support nerfs please keep in mind that we don’t want to destroy the game for you. We are trying to protect the game for you even if that means protecting it from yourself. We love this game very much and we have the knowledge and understanding to see how this game can be broken for everyone with bad balance. You may not see this while you struggling to compete on higher level but believe me, we want to preserve it for you in a longer run...

Ah yes... "We know what's best for you better than you do". I'm sure you mean well, but there are some pretty nasty implications to this line of thought.

I don't really care if the sexbot will be nerfed or not - most likely, she will be, and that's okay. The kit IS OP. What I dislike, intensely, is people trying to enforce their understanding of how the game should be played, on everyone else (see: FBW farming, Rio farming, Reegar kroguard, etc.). I hope you don't take it the wrong way  

[PreGy]

Too many words. I'm sure there is also some logic in those words.

Too much for BSN.

[Hausner85]

avenging_teabag wrote...

Ah yes... "We know what's best for you better than you do". I'm sure you mean well, but there are some pretty nasty implications to this line of thought.

I don't really care if the sexbot will be nerfed or not - most likely, she will be, and that's okay. The kit IS OP. What I dislike, intensely, is people trying to enforce their understanding of how the game should be played, on everyone else (see: FBW farming, Rio farming, Reegar kroguard, etc.). I hope you don't take it the wrong way  

Don't worry i won't. And while on BSN we cannot enforce anything we are always just giving our opinions. And I sure you can agree AIU is doing all she can to make sure your not prepared to play gold... And the idea is to show what nerfers have in mind because some people think that just want to ruin their game and that OP kit can hurt them to.

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

I do think that there are things in need of buffs and nerfs, but im not in control of that. Else harrier accuracy bug and weight would deffinetly be looked at.
I don't really worry if there are op classes playing with me, I'm just less likely to use medigel, because if they're op, surly they can carry me.
But it's supprisingly the amount of times that my turian saboteur has had to carry gold matches, considering how 'terrible' he is

[Chealec]

Jenyatheawesome wrote...
....

If all the classes were balanced as many nerfer's want then where is the variety?


...not to mention many of the classes are dull and pointless to play.

Balance != uniformity.

If the classes were all balanced there would be no pointless classes
(dull is subjective, I find the AIU fairly dull except the speed and flips).


Not that it really matters any more - limited lifespan left in the game that there is.

Modifié par Chealec, 05 mars 2013 - 12:34 .

[Hausner85]

Chealec wrote...
Not that it really matters any more - limited lifespan left in the game that there is.

This is very sad.... I think this is the reason why we are not getting some much needed balance changes patches.

[avenging_teabag]

Hausner85 wrote...

avenging_teabag wrote...

Ah yes... "We know what's best for you better than you do". I'm sure you mean well, but there are some pretty nasty implications to this line of thought.

I don't really care if the sexbot will be nerfed or not - most likely, she will be, and that's okay. The kit IS OP. What I dislike, intensely, is people trying to enforce their understanding of how the game should be played, on everyone else (see: FBW farming, Rio farming, Reegar kroguard, etc.). I hope you don't take it the wrong way  

Don't worry i won't. And while on BSN we cannot enforce anything we are always just giving our opinions. And I sure you can agree AIU is doing all she can to make sure your not prepared to play gold... And the idea is to show what nerfers have in mind because some people think that just want to ruin their game and that OP kit can hurt them to.

I don't think this is the case, honestly. First thing, there don't seem to be that many of them in the lobbies, and second, a player who's underexperienced/underequipped/just plain bad, still not gonna do well with her. I've seen quite a few EDIs who were doing fair to middling in matches, or just sucked. And exactly the same thing was said about the TGI, and to the lesser extent, kroguard earlier - it wasn't true then, and it's not true now, I don't think.

To be frank, Juggs annoy me a lot more, and serve as a crutch for bad players a lot more often. They are a lot more prevalent in lobbies too. With the Sexbot, you at least have to stay mobile, to look for the best angle to maximize your damage, to look out for sync-killers. Juggs literally just stand there and high-five everything. Bleh.

Modifié par avenging_teabag, 05 mars 2013 - 01:01 .

[Knockingbr4in]

AIU is overpowered but so is the GI, and GI wasn't nerfed into the ground. Fancy that.

[3XT3RM1N4TUS]

Oh, look how you defended us from Krysae. It is a garbage now.

I don't care about people crying about "overpowered" stuff in the game. I've played a few games with Krysae, it was fun, then I switched to another weapon. That's all. Same with reegar, harrier, anything whiners complain about. You have an option to use a gun/kit or not to. Use it! Do not ruin the game for players who have fun.

I know Bioware will probably nerf the new stuff because you people are still crying about "overpowered" AIU, Jugg, etc, which makes me to play them even more before they nerf the **** out of them.

I hate you so much.

Modifié par 3XT3RM1N4TUS, 05 mars 2013 - 12:49 .

[Hausner85]

avenging_teabag wrote...
To be frank, Juggs annoy me a lot more, and serve as a crutch for bad players a lot more often. They are a lot more prevalent in lobbies too. With the Sexbot, you at least have to stay mobile, to look for the best angle to maximize your damage, to look out for sync-killers. Juggs literally just stand there and high-five everything. Bleh.

 

Just had a match that i ended on 220k (Gold) with two juggies doing nothing but surviving everything and choking enemies. Must i say that i took 28 min to finish? Yep juggie is broken to.

3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...
Oh, look how you defended us from Krysae. It is a garbage now. 
I hate you so much.

First we don't nerf anything. Bioware does. You may switch to other weapons but to many players will never do. Also Krysea was unlucky it was OK before they remove charge mechanics to prevent missile glitching. So if some one destroyed Krysea completely it was the cheaters. Second wow i think you didn't learn anything from this post...

Modifié par Hausner85, 05 mars 2013 - 12:55 .

[Chealec]

3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...

Oh, look how you defended us from Krysae. It is a garbage now.

I don't care about people crying about "overpowered" stuff in the game. I've played a few games with Krysae, it was fun, then I switched to another weapon. That's all. Same with reegar, harrier, anything whiners complain about. You have an option to use a gun/kit or not to, use it. Do not ruin the game for players who have fun.

I know Bioware will probably nerf the new stuff because you people are still crying about "overpowered" AIU, Jugg, etc, which makes me to play them even more before they nerf the **** out of them.

I hate you so much.

The Krysae was broken - but if nobody had used it it, it probably wouldn't have been nerfed... it wasn't the nerfers (vocal minority) that got it hammered it was the stats showing that there was a disproportionally high number of Krysae/Infils being used in gold games. Carebears on crutches got the gun nerfed.

[Shadohz]

Nerf the following as well:
Volus shields. Cooldown too low. Allows for 'infinite" shields. SB should have a 30 sec CD. It also has known glitch for locking up gun like the Harrier and Spitfire.

Krogran melee: Their strength is too strong. They should not be able to stand and melee bosses.

Biotic charge: Biotic charge shouldn't give a 50% regen. This should be reduced to 10%.

Tactical cloak: TC shouldn't have the advantage of hidden damage AND breaking damage.

Power spammers: List every power like ES that allows spamming. All spam powers should reduce shield as penalty.

class specific weaponry: classes shouldn't only be allowed to gear up weapons that are specific to their classes, not be able to use all weapons.

class-penalty for improper load-out: Since classes are allowed to take their weapon of choice (see above) there should be a penalty for use weapons not specific to your class. (e.g infiltrators with shotguns, adepts with sniper rifles).


There... now everyone is unhappy.

[xtorma]

Did you ever think that maybe we don't need your self important arse to save us?

And even if we did, you need to include quite a few more kits into your sermon. I'm sorry to say this, but I won't be putting anything in the plate today.

[avenging_teabag]

Hausner85 wrote...

avenging_teabag wrote...
To be frank, Juggs annoy me a lot more, and serve as a crutch for bad players a lot more often. They are a lot more prevalent in lobbies too. With the Sexbot, you at least have to stay mobile, to look for the best angle to maximize your damage, to look out for sync-killers. Juggs literally just stand there and high-five everything. Bleh.

 

Just had a match that i ended on 220k (Gold) with two juggies doing nothing but surviving everything and choking enemies. Must i say that i took 28 min to finish? Yep juggie is broken to.

Sad thing is, they don't even survive often either. But they're sync-kill immune and have crapton of shields - a crutch class right there. Dead boring to play too.

And in case you've missed my edit:


And I think you underestimate the influence that BSN has in certain parts. Just yessterday (true story)  a friend told me in a chat that he wasn't using EDI, because he didn't want to get a "reputation". That is not okay - people should be able to play the game however they want without stigma, as long as they don't cheat.

Modifié par avenging_teabag, 05 mars 2013 - 01:00 .

[Schachmatt123]

Knockingbr4in wrote...

AIU is overpowered but so is the GI, and GI wasn't nerfed into the ground. Fancy that.

Does the GI have infinite autorevives that are superior to medgel? Nuff said.

The only thing this kit does is to teach bad players to keep bad habits, imho. Ramboing around without to fear any consequences is one thing. Hitting a lobby and immediately ready up without even take a look at the other kits/setups/ map/enemy settings is all I see from Reegar AIU's.

Modifié par Schachmatt, 05 mars 2013 - 03:28 .

[MaxBoss]

I still believe balance changes are mostly derived from actual game telemetry rather than BSN threads. So, if a kit is too popular, it will get adjusted. Same thing the other way.
Also, given the novelty of the DLC characters, those will be played the most, so I guess balance changes, if any, will not affect the newest chars, at least in the immediate future as stats will be skewed in their favour.

Modifié par MaxBoss, 05 mars 2013 - 01:01 .

[3XT3RM1N4TUS]

Chealec wrote...

3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...

Oh, look how you defended us from Krysae. It is a garbage now.

I don't care about people crying about "overpowered" stuff in the game. I've played a few games with Krysae, it was fun, then I switched to another weapon. That's all. Same with reegar, harrier, anything whiners complain about. You have an option to use a gun/kit or not to, use it. Do not ruin the game for players who have fun.

I know Bioware will probably nerf the new stuff because you people are still crying about "overpowered" AIU, Jugg, etc, which makes me to play them even more before they nerf the **** out of them.

I hate you so much.

The Krysae was broken - but if nobody had used it it, it probably wouldn't have been nerfed... it wasn't the nerfers (vocal minority) that got it hammered it was the stats showing that there was a disproportionally high number of Krysae/Infils being used in gold games. Carebears on crutches got the gun nerfed.

As I said I didn't care. I only used it like 5-6 times and that's all. And I wasn't raging when a Krysae GI entered the lobby. This is not a competive games. I understand when BF3 noobs overuse M16A3 and AEK or when CoD noobs overuse SMGs, yes, this is a serious issue. But not in a coop games.
And here on BSN are 2 types of nerfers: 1) people who got outscored and cry on BSN 2) elitists who find the game easy with everything but a predator. All this "we want to save you blah blah blah" talks are BS, If you really want to save the players you'd better don't post theads like this and let us use whatever we want.

[Hausner85]

xtorma wrote...

Did you ever think that maybe we don't need your self important arse to save us?

And even if we did, you need to include quite a few more kits into your sermon. I'm sorry to say this, but I won't be putting anything in the plate today.

That was just an example. And as for know the game quite well balanced. Also I guess you're still straggling on gold:whistle: Also the idea of this post is to show a point o view you don't have to agree but it hard to deny there is some wisdom in this approach...

Modifié par Hausner85, 05 mars 2013 - 01:03 .

[Miclotov]

@op: nice vintage wine you got there. want some cheese with it?

@topic: 0/10 reported for airlock

[xtorma]

Hausner85 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

Did you ever think that maybe we don't need your self important arse to save us?

And even if we did, you need to include quite a few more kits into your sermon. I'm sorry to say this, but I won't be putting anything in the plate today.

That was just an example. And as for know the game quite well balanced. Also I guess you're still straggling on gold:whistle: Also the idea of this post is to show a point o view you don't have to agree but it hard to deny there is some wisdom in this approach...

Straggling on gold?

[bartz824]

I can beast any of the new DLC units with just about any other kit out there on Gold. So what if there's 3-4 OP kits/weapons. Let each person play and experience the game the way they want. It's not your call to tell them to use a certain kit. This game is a year old and the player base is shrinking and will continue to shrink so if there is a few OP kits that keep a few more players around this long, then let it go. You do NOT know what's best for each and every player.

[tCruzin4lyfe]

Schachmatt wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

AIU is overpowered but so is the GI, and GI wasn't nerfed into the ground. Fancy that.

Does the GI have infinite autorevives that are superior to medgel? Nuff said.

Severe nerf needed. The only thing this kit does is to teach bad players to keep bad habits. Ramboing around without to fear any consequences is one thing. Hitting a lobby and immediately ready up without even take a look at the other kits/setups/ map/enemy settings is all I see from Reegar AIU's. Surest way to earn a kickvote.

oh please, "infinite revives" lmao. Every game I played that had had a AIU in it has gone down plenty and didn't get right back up. They either ran out of RM or it went out just as they were getting shot at. It cracks me up people think this kit is so Op that anyone can just jump from bronze and solo gold with it. She is not even the best Infiltrator. Also having a teammate that can get up on their own is a good thing. That way others don't have to risk going down as well trying to revive. Simple solution, don't like the kit, don't play the kit. If one joins the lobby, leave or kick.