342 réponses à ce sujet

[OuterRim]

And a reply from a non-nerfer...

Hausner85 wrote...
So we got another broken overpowered kit. 

Can't agree with you there. She is no more overpowered then many other kits, TGI, KG, etc, and unlike the GI, she can't melt an Atlas in 3 seconds. I guess that isn't OP in your book. Doesn't bother me either, so I guess we agree on that score.

So is it the 25% SG bonus in combo with cloak that you have the problem with, or the Auto revive, which from my tests is pretty buggy and only seems to work about 75% of the time. Neither are OP in my book considering some of the other combos some kits ahve that are better.

Hausner85 wrote...
We are not. In fact we are trying to save it even while you can’t see it. 

I believe you actually believe this but the fact is that simply isn't the case. Nerfs hurt the average Joe far more then those who know how to play the game and play it well. So this statement is only true if one believes that hurting the biggest player base of the game is actually saving it. Personally, I just can't agree with that nonsence.

Hausner85 wrote...
Have you ask yourself how the game would look like without some of the much needed nerfs?

The example you gave is absurd to say the least. The odds of it having occured would be most unlikely, but I would have loved to have seen it.

The simple truth is, nerfers actually have little to do with nerfing weapons. Yes, we blame you guys because its fun, and entertaining, but in the Bioware scope of things, cries for nerfs (and buffs for that matter) really come about by them looking at stats(ie carniflex nerf), and playing trends (pet nerf a perfect example here). Player input has some effect I'm sure, but little in the grand scope of Bioware.

Hausner85 wrote...
So OP kit/weapons can make game boring/frustrating whenever you use them or not. They will always hurt your gaming experience. But there is another problem: The OP kit/weapons take you where you shouldn’t be.

Can't agree with you on either of those statements either. 

When so called OP kits/weapons are in my Gold PUG lobby, I have high hopes that I won't have to solo a bunch of rounds, but usually I still do. If I'm lucky, one of them actually does know what he's doing and if I'm really lucky, I'll even get outscored by him. Just doesn't happen often enough for me to consider any of the so called OP kits a game breaking problem. Most players are casual players and if a kit/weapon combo allows them to jump into a gold game then I've got no problem with that. But then I like a challenge, and a bigger variety of players and kits/weapon combos make the game more fun, not less fun for me.

And as for your argument that it puts some players in over their heads, that is no doubt true, but a truth I don't have a problem in dealing with. I can't speak for other players like a few like to do, but for me, and as stated earlier, I like a challenge and will welcome anyone into my lobby. I very, rarely kick anyone from a lobby, and if I do its because of their game ettiquette that I've been able to observe after a match with them, and not their kit and loadout. I'm happy to carry when its required of me. Those kind of games juts help me become a better player, so I welcome them.

Hausner85 wrote...
Again "The Nerfers love this game more than you do" means that some of us wont this game to be fun, nice and appealing for as long as possible not just easily accessible. Also I wanted to make a strong argument about devotions of some of us for this game and that we contributed more time to it that most of other players.

I have no doubt that nerfers love this game as much as anyone else or they wouldn't be here, but the fact is not everyone's idea of fun is the same, and that is really what separates nerfers and non-nerfers, their idea of fun. That is all it really is.

Hausner85 wrote...
Edit 4: I always thought that most players crave for feeling of achievement like when you become a true gold players. It seems that there are a lot of players that are looking for an easy way in. Whenever i see text like "Mind your own business, why do you care how we play etc." what i really see "You're threaten my easy way in and the (probably) undeserved spot I have thanks to that kit/weapon" 

Again achievment, like fun, is something very objective. I feel achievement when I'm able to carry 3 noobie PUGs through a gold match, or help out a lobby of friends extract on Plat with a decent time. I'm sure the average joe feels achievment to simply extract from gold, even if they were carried. I know I did when I first started playing gold. I also learned from those players who carrie dme back then, watching them from their point of view after I had died. Now I hope some of them have learned from me.

I would not feel achievment by promoting nerfs to a weapon or kit because I feel it gives lesser players an advantage in the game, or a chance to play a gold game. In fact, if I did that, I would feel quite the opposite of achievment.

Hausner85 wrote...
I cannot see why there should be classes/weapons that allow everyone to play Gold without effort. Also i cannot why everyone should be able to play gold. And what separates true gold players from silver one is not skills/classes/weapons it's the understanding of basic game mechanics. And you can learn them quite fast from the very forum we are on..

Understanding the basic game mechanics makes the game much easier, and this is what made it possible for me to play well in Gold, but the average Joe just wants to play a game and not look too deep into it.

Most will not venture into Gold, or even silver for that matter, so the idea that certain kits allow everyone to play gold is a misnomer. And there isn't a single kit out there that is an auto win on gold or plat anyway, but that won't stop a few less skilled players from trying with any kit. Doing so with a kit better suited for higher levels gives them more of a chance, but I don't feel it makes it more likely that they will try. And even if it actually does, that just makes gold PUGs more interesting for the better players. Don't see the issue here. 

No matter what kit one plays, if they don't know the basic game mechanics, they are very unlikely to survive Gold/Plat without being carried. Plain and simple. The kit/weapon they use does not matter. I have to revive just as many noobie TGI's as I do HE's or HS's when playing Gold PUGs. Some noob players will still try gold, no matter what kits/weapons are nerfed. It won't stop them from trying, just make it less likey they will succeed. 

Hausner85 wrote...
Edit 6: I know that keeping discussion civilized is hard but if you have nothing to add besides calling me names and trying to insult go play some MP and don't bother posting because in only tells how little you represent with yourself

In this we are in FULL AGREEMENT!

[COLZ7R]

Jebel Krong wrote...

 i laugh most at those that think they actually influence the devs/balance process: newsflash you don't. 

Saying that - if you believe your own drivel op, you are deluded and full of it.

afraid this time they did as i cannot figure out any other reason for the nerff. not enough time has passed since it came out to get any meaningfull data as is the normal excuse for a nerf.
only options left are they did listen to the vocal minority, or the devs who came up with the new characters have no idea what they have been doing for the past 3-4 months and had a moment of clarity 5 days after the kit was released

[Rudenut]

KlownSnypr wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

KlownSnypr wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

KlownSnypr wrote...

All guns and powers in MP should be equivalent to the SP guns and powers. Nuff said no more nerfing just lots of buffing to all the nerf'd to death weapons.

LOLOLOLOLOL. several of the guns in SP are game breakingly OP if they were pushed into MP. 4 mrk X Adas ARs on TGIs. It'd be like the Krysae GI's all over again.

And there have been more buffs than nerfs in MP too.

Don't care   *snip* [/b][b]

You see, this is where your credibility stopped.

And that is where your benevolence and pseudo superioty come into play. I can think of someone else that thought he knew better than anyone else as well. Ended up killing 6 million people just because they were different.

Simple solution, if you don't like the guns don't use them. Don't like the game you're in because of said guns leave and find a new one. Your attitude is as such like the atheists removing god from all things public including the pledge of allegience. I'm sorry atheism is a lack of relegion and the constitution only protects your right to relgion not from it. But yet the majority have to bend to the will of the extreme minority.

You should stop arguing with these examples.  Under god was added to the pledge of allegience in 1954...it was never in the original.  The only mention of religion in the constitution and declaration were exclusionary.  From my perspective, it is the religious fanatics that have hijacked my country.

[GreatBlueHeron]

Blah blah blah, OP. I posist that people who spend real money on packs love this game more than people who call for nerfs. The problem is that the nerfers aren't consistent. Why aren't you all calling for a nerf to kroguard? Or the TGI? Or the GI? When a kit comes along that doesn't fit with the nerfers' playstyles (they're getting outscored) they whine and cry for BioWare to fix it because epeen. Seriously, give it a rest.

[AnimaMachinae]

Right then gents lets try and just lock this thread? The arguments are baseless and OP is delusioned by their own self-righteousness

[KlownSnypr]

Rudenut wrote...

KlownSnypr wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

KlownSnypr wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

KlownSnypr wrote...

All guns and powers in MP should be equivalent to the SP guns and powers. Nuff said no more nerfing just lots of buffing to all the nerf'd to death weapons.

LOLOLOLOLOL. several of the guns in SP are game breakingly OP if they were pushed into MP. 4 mrk X Adas ARs on TGIs. It'd be like the Krysae GI's all over again.

And there have been more buffs than nerfs in MP too.

Don't care   *snip* [/b][b]

You see, this is where your credibility stopped.

And that is where your benevolence and pseudo superioty come into play. I can think of someone else that thought he knew better than anyone else as well. Ended up killing 6 million people just because they were different.

Simple solution, if you don't like the guns don't use them. Don't like the game you're in because of said guns leave and find a new one. Your attitude is as such like the atheists removing god from all things public including the pledge of allegience. I'm sorry atheism is a lack of relegion and the constitution only protects your right to relgion not from it. But yet the majority have to bend to the will of the extreme minority.

You should stop arguing with these examples.  Under god was added to the pledge of allegience in 1954...it was never in the original.  The only mention of religion in the constitution and declaration were exclusionary.  From my perspective, it is the religious fanatics that have hijacked my country.

check page 13, already stated this

[masleslie]

Aekshin wrote...

I think you're wrong. There is a significant difficulty difference between levels as you move up from bronze. Because of this we need these kits. You think that people will use such kits but will not be able to evolve. Maybe some of the players will not be able to do so, but in my experience most of the them are improving with time. For example, in my very first gold games I was farming - WGG - now I am able to experience multiple play stiles and kits without problems. Back then I never believed that I will be able to sustain the pressure. Same goes for platinum.
As the players are getting used with the new difficulty, their game play is improving.
This is why is very important to have such kits. Keep in mind that the game is not targeted and limited to the under 1% of player base that are very skilled.
All people have the rights to have fun. ME3 MP is a coop game.
So please, stop this non-sense about nerfing.

I love it when people understand & express the truth so many nerfers are missing. Shame posts like this get lost in the midst of all the whining.

[Devoidparanoia]

I give up, at this point I'm just going back to my sabotuer with a crusader, thankfully I'm one of those people who can be better with a phaeston than a tgi+harrier. Have fun discussing what to nerf what not to nerf blah blah ill just be sitting here, having fun. Because I love the game

[Deliquesce]

The concept of someone "loving this game more than you do" is laughable. You're posting on BSN, somewhere that players rough out on games just to figure out builds, who try the most awful guns to make them useful in certain situations. These people have put more passion and time into actually playing this game than what you would have even if you stopped whining every four seconds on this forum.

I can understand the concept of balance, but nit-picking constantly about silly things for your fifteen minutes is just extremely annoying.

I, for one, love the multiplayer experience, for better or worse. It's not perfect, but then again, nothing is. Bioware have worked their asses off day in and day out to create this, for the majority of these so called "nerfers" just to complain. The relationship Bioware has with it's fans is admirable, the shame is that people like you make it a flaw. The amount I've seen nerfers complain is just terrible, and leads to Bioware thinking that they are obligated to make you happy. Cue the Krysae - nothing more needs to be said.

Also, all of this "they get more points than someone who has an avenger 1" crap is nonsensical at the very least. You're playing a CO-OP game, your competitiveness is irrelevant.

[Devoidparanoia]

Deliquesce wrote...

The concept of someone "loving this game more than you do" is laughable. You're posting on BSN, somewhere that players rough out on games just to figure out builds, who try the most awful guns to make them useful in certain situations. These people have put more passion and time into actually playing this game than what you would have even if you stopped whining every four seconds on this forum.

I can understand the concept of balance, but nit-picking constantly about silly things for your fifteen minutes is just extremely annoying.

I, for one, love the multiplayer experience, for better or worse. It's not perfect, but then again, nothing is. Bioware have worked their asses off day in and day out to create this, for the majority of these so called "nerfers" just to complain. The relationship Bioware has with it's fans is admirable, the shame is that people like you make it a flaw. The amount I've seen nerfers complain is just terrible, and leads to Bioware thinking that they are obligated to make you happy. Cue the Krysae - nothing more needs to be said.

Also, all of this "they get more points than someone who has an avenger 1" crap is nonsensical at the very least. You're playing a CO-OP game, your competitiveness is irrelevant.

and the falcon,

you have the most valid point here sir

Balace, not nerf

Modifié par Devoidparanoia, 08 mars 2013 - 02:23 .

[GroverA125]

Out of the time I've played the multiplayer, 363 days to be exact. I've only seen two unjustified nerfs. Other than that, any nerf is completely justified and makes perfect sense to be done.

The alternative for nerfing classes and weapons is to buff enemies, which then causes MUCH more problems. For one, anyone who starts the game now will probably trade it in after two matches, unless they are as dedicated as a bee to their hive. This is because so many damn overpowered classes are there while the first setups are so damn weak that even bronze is hard to start on. The idea of adding a class that anyone can use and play on the highest difficulty is unjustified and a pointless suggestion. If that's the case, then why doesn't every class of the same rarity get buffed to the same extent? They are all just as rare and just as unlikely to be recieved, so they should all be equal, right? But then what? You have a game that anybody can win at regardless of input or skill. You might as well play Dungeons and Dragons with four rangers and only level 1 minions throughout the game. The idea is that difficulty results in challenge, and challenge is rewarded with more money for equipment. If there's no challenge, then aren't you just playing a game where all you're doing is getting stuff for spending 30 minutes against enemies who don't stand a chance? Won't that get incredibly dull after several games?

Come on, for God's sake, we requested a higher difficulty because the original highest difficulty was too easy, you can't then whine that the game sucks because it's hard when a new difficulty had to be made. Any class that can perform so well on platinum without any major justification or skill gap is quite simply pointless, as it removes the PRIMARY function of the games setup: Actually having to work to get a lot of credits in a short time. Farming's always going to be there, but there's no excuse to add imbalanced equipment and then say "well at least people can play the highest difficulty (which we asked for because the game was already too easy) with ease now".

Isn't that a little hypocritical? Games too easy, add a hard mode, but then it's perfectly fine to add new classes which render the new difficulty addition pointless, because they walk through it like it were a lower one?

Edit: Also, even in co-op games, competitiveness is vital. If one player is literally just sitting around doing nothing in the match while another just nukes everything before anyone can get a shot in, someone's having a negative gaming experience. And don't even say "well maybe he should use that class then" because that invalidates the point of having 70+ classes and so many weapons, and that also decreases the quality of the gaming experience, especially if such a person doesn't have the gear that he needs to actually do something in a match.

Modifié par GroverA125, 08 mars 2013 - 02:56 .

[Deliquesce]

GroverA125 wrote...Also, even in co-op games, competitiveness is vital. If one player is literally just sitting around doing nothing in the match while another just nukes everything before anyone can get a shot in, someone's having a negative gaming experience. And don't even say "well maybe he should use that class then" because that invalidates the point of having 70+ classes and so many weapons, and that also decreases the quality of the gaming experience, especially if such a person doesn't have the gear that he needs to actually do something in a match.

If "such a person" continues to play the game, then he/she will eventually gain experience and knowledge, plus the ability to buy better gear.   It's an incentive to keep playing, to get better, to eventually be just as good as the person who "nukes everything" on the map.  If we were all equally as good with equal guns that did an equal amount of damage then where is the variation that makes things interesting?

Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer Communists - making a society where we all have an Equally Good Time.

/barf

[silencekills]

Hausner85 wrote...
... And the filling is great at the beginning.

It better be! Ya know they've got pies filled with nothing but mushrooms? Last time I eat one without checkin what's in it.


This thread won't really change much. I'd assume if I looked through the posts there would be the same old "it's a CO-OP game mode" and "People need to stop being butthurt about not getting top score" and the like.

Modifié par silencekills, 08 mars 2013 - 03:26 .

[ToughReason]

Lets to put a side the great DMG output of the lolobot and her OPness ...
I want to point one more thing...
90 % of PuGs refuse to instaGel or BossNuke/ hard task stuff anyway , BUT...
More or less even the most skilled players lost some amount of equipment via playng MP ...
Why im forced to restore my Ops Packs and Medigels every 2-3 games and to buy JEPs but lolobot players have "free" profit .. all money that they earn are "taxes" free and can be invested directly in PSPs or RPs or whatever ?

[Caldari Ghost]

GroverA125 wrote...

Out of the time I've played the multiplayer, 363 days to be exact. I've only seen two unjustified nerfs. Other than that, any nerf is completely justified and makes perfect sense to be done.

The alternative for nerfing classes and weapons is to buff enemies, which then causes MUCH more problems. For one, anyone who starts the game now will probably trade it in after two matches, unless they are as dedicated as a bee to their hive. This is because so many damn overpowered classes are there while the first setups are so damn weak that even bronze is hard to start on. The idea of adding a class that anyone can use and play on the highest difficulty is unjustified and a pointless suggestion. If that's the case, then why doesn't every class of the same rarity get buffed to the same extent? They are all just as rare and just as unlikely to be recieved, so they should all be equal, right? But then what? You have a game that anybody can win at regardless of input or skill. You might as well play Dungeons and Dragons with four rangers and only level 1 minions throughout the game. The idea is that difficulty results in challenge, and challenge is rewarded with more money for equipment. If there's no challenge, then aren't you just playing a game where all you're doing is getting stuff for spending 30 minutes against enemies who don't stand a chance? Won't that get incredibly dull after several games?

Come on, for God's sake, we requested a higher difficulty because the original highest difficulty was too easy, you can't then whine that the game sucks because it's hard when a new difficulty had to be made. Any class that can perform so well on platinum without any major justification or skill gap is quite simply pointless, as it removes the PRIMARY function of the games setup: Actually having to work to get a lot of credits in a short time. Farming's always going to be there, but there's no excuse to add imbalanced equipment and then say "well at least people can play the highest difficulty (which we asked for because the game was already too easy) with ease now".

Isn't that a little hypocritical? Games too easy, add a hard mode, but then it's perfectly fine to add new classes which render the new difficulty addition pointless, because they walk through it like it were a lower one?

Edit: Also, even in co-op games, competitiveness is vital. If one player is literally just sitting around doing nothing in the match while another just nukes everything before anyone can get a shot in, someone's having a negative gaming experience. And don't even say "well maybe he should use that class then" because that invalidates the point of having 70+ classes and so many weapons, and that also decreases the quality of the gaming experience, especially if such a person doesn't have the gear that he needs to actually do something in a match.

actually the vanilla kits are just as viable as any other.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Jedi?

[Caldari Ghost]

Sith?

[Ninja Stan]

If you're going to resurrect an old thread, you should contribute significantly to the discussion. Otherwise, it's spam and you should have started a new thread.

End of line.