342 réponses à ce sujet

[Gabhlan]

There are Nerf's and then there are NERF's look what happened to hunter vision which turned into a the Geth equivalent of hawk missiles, though I still us it on my Engineer only. Also the Krysae Sniper Rifle was nerfed into oblivion as is almost worse then a Raptor.

I think the new infiltrator is fine if you don't like her then don't play her. I found her a nice shotgun infiltrator and she wasn't too over powered.

Of course some characters are more powerful then others. But also some characters fit your play style better then others and my most powerful class may not be the same as the next persons. It's nice to have a power build you know you'll win with for a nice easy game if you want that. If you want more challenge then play something a little more awkward to use.

You go on about score and competitiveness. If everyone thought like that a lot of less powerful stuff would be ignored and everyone would be playing with very similar classes. The game is about Co-Op and about winning. In case you didn't notice everyone gets the same score in the end. Reapers don't care what score you have anyway when a banshee's ripping out your life pump.

If you want to be competitive then fine create a group and have rules as to what you can use and what you can't or play as the same character and see who comes top. If you're playing public you get what you get.

Modifié par Gabhlan, 05 mars 2013 - 02:55 .

[deafglasses]

I'm honestly surprised we don't have a Multiplayer kit tier list.

Also I question the balance of a game where silver level SMGs outperform gold level ARs.

[InstaShark]

Well, they nerfed Sabotage into the ground.

I bet nerfers totally wanted to protect us from using Sabotage.

[Cloaking_Thane]

DungeonHoek wrote...
 blah blah consumables and glitchers
[

No you've not answered my initial question ever, and again missed the point.

Would you support a kit have 1-2- or 3 one shot powers.

and i'd like to meet anyone other than the missle glitcher who thinks its fun.

[DungeonHoek]

MajorStupidity wrote...

I am pro-BALANCE. I agree with nerfs when necessary, however, I do not agree with some of the things you stated in the OP as they come across as egocentric. The people who are completely against balance generally do not listen to these arguments as they have a different perspective on what they want out of a game.

People do not like to hear that you know better than them, and are only doing something to protect them. You are making all pro-balance people sound like a bunch of narcissictic control freaks.

At the end of the day though the people who whine and cry that "NeRferz R ruinin' my gameZ" need to remember that we are not in charge of the balance changes and Bioware has their own metrics they take and nerf/buff depending on usage of weapons/kits. Even if a kit is capable of massive damage it may not be nerfed if not many people play it. The AIU will only be nerfed if we see a great majority of PUGs using it weeks after DLC drops (Yes I am fairly certain Bioware takes into consideration popularity of new classes before nerfing/buffing)

You remember that guy Death_4_sale?, how he crusaded against the Piranaha and then like a week or so later the Biotic and Eletric slash for the Shadow and Slayer.

I do. He demanded nerf's for both of those powers. Using incorrect information, badly done videos not show casing his points instead showing the opposite of his intentions. Ignoring people who corrected with ACTUAL true information on the powers. And his ultimate point, the reason he wanted those powers nerfed. They were OP in a FARMING situation.

He actually claimed that.

And then a week later Bioware nerfed those two powers. It was a tiny nerf, but it was still a nerf.

Its things like this, and incidents like the Krysae and the Piranaha among others that set the tone for "balancers" and "nerfers". Especially in a Player VS AI game.

[DungeonHoek]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...
 blah blah consumables and glitchers
[

No you've not answered my initial question ever, and again missed the point.

Would you support a kit have 1-2- or 3 one shot powers.

and i'd like to meet anyone other than the missle glitcher who thinks its fun.

A real glass cannon?, someone who could only fire off his powers every once in a while but when he does he nukes things?.

Could be interesting. If done right.

Because that's what it would have to be.

But still doesn't change anything I've said thus far.

[Chealec]

zorinho20 wrote...

...

There is a lot players out there,who play Infiltrators to help team and not just hoard kills.
But,it might be your way,too.

True - but three of them, in the same lobby, at the same time?

That's why I'm always wary of 3-infil PuG lobbies...

1 infil is fine,
2 infils is fine (I'll not use an infil then, no biggy),
3 infils...  nope.

[Cloaking_Thane]

DungeonHoek wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...
 blah blah consumables and glitchers
[

No you've not answered my initial question ever, and again missed the point.

Would you support a kit have 1-2- or 3 one shot powers.

and i'd like to meet anyone other than the missle glitcher who thinks its fun.

A real glass cannon?, someone who could only fire off his powers every once in a while but when he does he nukes things?.

Could be interesting. If done right.

Because that's what it would have to be.

But still doesn't change anything I've said thus far.

No not a glass cannon, lets put 1 shot powers on an infiltrator  that way they could use them roughly every 3 seconds.

Fair and balanced to me

[MajorStupidity]

DungeonHoek wrote...

MajorStupidity wrote...

I am pro-BALANCE. I agree with nerfs when necessary, however, I do not agree with some of the things you stated in the OP as they come across as egocentric. The people who are completely against balance generally do not listen to these arguments as they have a different perspective on what they want out of a game.

People do not like to hear that you know better than them, and are only doing something to protect them. You are making all pro-balance people sound like a bunch of narcissictic control freaks.

At the end of the day though the people who whine and cry that "NeRferz R ruinin' my gameZ" need to remember that we are not in charge of the balance changes and Bioware has their own metrics they take and nerf/buff depending on usage of weapons/kits. Even if a kit is capable of massive damage it may not be nerfed if not many people play it. The AIU will only be nerfed if we see a great majority of PUGs using it weeks after DLC drops (Yes I am fairly certain Bioware takes into consideration popularity of new classes before nerfing/buffing)

You remember that guy Death_4_sale?, how he crusaded against the Piranaha and then like a week or so later the Biotic and Eletric slash for the Shadow and Slayer.

I do. He demanded nerf's for both of those powers. Using incorrect information, badly done videos not show casing his points instead showing the opposite of his intentions. Ignoring people who corrected with ACTUAL true information on the powers. And his ultimate point, the reason he wanted those powers nerfed. They were OP in a FARMING situation.

He actually claimed that.

And then a week later Bioware nerfed those two powers. It was a tiny nerf, but it was still a nerf.

Its things like this, and incidents like the Krysae and the Piranaha among others that set the tone for "balancers" and "nerfers". Especially in a Player VS AI game.

I am telling you Bioware looks at statistics and in game testing for balance decisions. I have also noticed Bioware tends to nerf based on usage not power level. They do this so that we have a variety of different kits in game and not the same setup being used all the time. The people who come here and make threads and "crusade" against OP weapons and kits do not influence Bioware's decisions. Otherwise we would have seen far more significant buffs to certain weapons (Raptor, scimitar, revenant, ect.) and far more unnecessary nerfs (reegar carbine, harrier, ect.)

I am not so completely ego-centric as the OP that I claim I know how to balance this game better than anyone bar the Bioware devs themselves. And I also do not look down on people using whatever kits/weapons they enjoy. I am just trying to show that not all people who advocate balance are unreasonable elitists who are out to ruin everyones fun

[DungeonHoek]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...
 blah blah consumables and glitchers
[

No you've not answered my initial question ever, and again missed the point.

Would you support a kit have 1-2- or 3 one shot powers.

and i'd like to meet anyone other than the missle glitcher who thinks its fun.

A real glass cannon?, someone who could only fire off his powers every once in a while but when he does he nukes things?.

Could be interesting. If done right.

Because that's what it would have to be.

But still doesn't change anything I've said thus far.

No not a glass cannon, lets put 1 shot powers on an infiltrator  that way they could use them roughly every 3 seconds.

Fair and balanced to me

Well, now you're just being silly. But hey, I'll play. I play meatman in attack mode. He uses Volus shield and Krolord hammer with special ability Vanguard glitch

I can't take that seriously anymore.

[Mgamerz]

Jenyatheawesome wrote...

Why are people upset if easier to use classes allow some people to play on higher difficultieThism s? Cant those people have fun to? If all the classes were balanced as many nerfer's want then where is the variety? This is the last dlc keep in mind so what is the pointvof nerfing anymore since this is all we got? Do games like COD or even Guild Wars 2 nerf players for being too powerful or finding new weapons at a constant rate? Due to this 'righteous' nerfing it is not very accessible to new players who may need a more powerful class to be good at first not to mention many of the classes are dull and pointless to play.

Cause a player who sucks that uses an op class, still sucks.

[DungeonHoek]

MajorStupidity wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...

MajorStupidity wrote...

I am pro-BALANCE. I agree with nerfs when necessary, however, I do not agree with some of the things you stated in the OP as they come across as egocentric. The people who are completely against balance generally do not listen to these arguments as they have a different perspective on what they want out of a game.

People do not like to hear that you know better than them, and are only doing something to protect them. You are making all pro-balance people sound like a bunch of narcissictic control freaks.

At the end of the day though the people who whine and cry that "NeRferz R ruinin' my gameZ" need to remember that we are not in charge of the balance changes and Bioware has their own metrics they take and nerf/buff depending on usage of weapons/kits. Even if a kit is capable of massive damage it may not be nerfed if not many people play it. The AIU will only be nerfed if we see a great majority of PUGs using it weeks after DLC drops (Yes I am fairly certain Bioware takes into consideration popularity of new classes before nerfing/buffing)

You remember that guy Death_4_sale?, how he crusaded against the Piranaha and then like a week or so later the Biotic and Eletric slash for the Shadow and Slayer.

I do. He demanded nerf's for both of those powers. Using incorrect information, badly done videos not show casing his points instead showing the opposite of his intentions. Ignoring people who corrected with ACTUAL true information on the powers. And his ultimate point, the reason he wanted those powers nerfed. They were OP in a FARMING situation.

He actually claimed that.

And then a week later Bioware nerfed those two powers. It was a tiny nerf, but it was still a nerf.

Its things like this, and incidents like the Krysae and the Piranaha among others that set the tone for "balancers" and "nerfers". Especially in a Player VS AI game.

I am telling you Bioware looks at statistics and in game testing for balance decisions. I have also noticed Bioware tends to nerf based on usage not power level. They do this so that we have a variety of different kits in game and not the same setup being used all the time. The people who come here and make threads and "crusade" against OP weapons and kits do not influence Bioware's decisions. Otherwise we would have seen far more significant buffs to certain weapons (Raptor, scimitar, revenant, ect.) and far more unnecessary nerfs (reegar carbine, harrier, ect.)

I am not so completely ego-centric as the OP that I claim I know how to balance this game better than anyone bar the Bioware devs themselves. And I also do not look down on people using whatever kits/weapons they enjoy. I am just trying to show that not all people who advocate balance are unreasonable elitists who are out to ruin everyones fun

I want to believe you that Bioware SOLEY looks at the data, but, those other incidents are rather coincidental don't you think?

Though you do have a point at least with the untouched stuff.

[Cloaking_Thane]

DungeonHoek wrote...
...snip

Well, now you're just being silly. But hey, I'll play. I play meatman in attack mode. He uses Volus shield and Krolord hammer with special ability Vanguard glitch

I can't take that seriously anymore.

I submit that an auto rez (auto med gel)

and sync kill immune to all factions. break the game almost equally.

they even have stim packs (auto health/ shields)

the next evolution is auto cobras!

[xtorma]

etm125 wrote...

xtorma wrote...

etm125 wrote...

Totally agree OP. People just don't see how bad/boring the game would get and how quickly they'd move on to another game if necessary balances weren't made.

They're all pro-buff and anti nerf. They don't get the "Balance" in game balance.

You won't change any of their minds though. Its a sisyphean effort.

The game is so very well balanced now. It's why you stumble over so many vanilla engineer no missle speedrunning videos.

I miss seeing vanilla humans in lobbies -- totally agree. But that wasnt due to any massive nerf to the vanilla kits. Its due to power creep and release of more powerful kits. Just because Im ok with nerfs doesnt mean I dont see some glaring kits/weapons that need a buff. 

Balance is an illusion. It's a long winding road developers feel they must tread in hopes that one day they will see the Emerald City over the horizon. Despite my posts, i am actually in the camp of "I don't really care" as far as nerfs go at this stage of the game. When it first came out, and choices were extremely limited, it made sense to try and balance as closely as possible. Now that we have 64 characters too choose from, it matters a lot less. The spectrum of OP to UP is huge now if you compare best to worst. Op kits exist, and have existed in the game for a long time, yet we don't see  people playing exclusivly op kits in lobbies until we get to platinum.

If the game were balanced there would never be "is this kit/weapon viable in platinum" threads. We can't argue that they havent had enough time to bring some of the lesser kits up to par, since it's been close to a year since the game began. My take on why they havent, is because with so many choices in the game now, preference has taken over where performance used to reign supreme.

People are calling for nerfs because they are afraid that performance will come back to take over the game. It may very well happen, but the liklihood is a lot less now than it was a year ago. I honestly believe that whether they nerf AIU or not will do very little to shift the balance from preference to performance, therefore I believe it isn't necessary unless the balance actually shifts.

My twisted logic in a nutshell.

[TODD 5184]

Hopefully BW ignores moronic opinions like yours.

Love the game more than me, what a joke. One would hope a dev would post "working as intended" and shut all you jerks up.

[DungeonHoek]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...
...snip

Well, now you're just being silly. But hey, I'll play. I play meatman in attack mode. He uses Volus shield and Krolord hammer with special ability Vanguard glitch

I can't take that seriously anymore.

I submit that an auto rez (auto med gel)

and sync kill immune to all factions. break the game almost equally.

they even have stim packs (auto health/ shields)

the next evolution is auto cobras!

Y'know, there was easy and fair way to deal with the Synch kill issue that Bioware themselves should have put in. And that would have been the ability to fight back. Y'know, like in Gears of War. How you can get into a Lancer duel and if you're not quick enough, or mess up, you die.

Each character has their own unique strengths and abilities and that could have lead to some unique escapes, counter executions. Etc.

And maybe then we wouldn't have a Synch-immune, totally awesome Juggernaut. But, this is how it is.

Also, I play ****ty robot in not impressive mode. She fails to activate win button, dies sadly.

[MajorStupidity]

DungeonHoek wrote...

I want to believe you that Bioware SOLEY looks at the data, but, those other incidents are rather coincidental don't you think?

Though you do have a point at least with the untouched stuff.

I believe the coincidence happened because we all know Bioware is against farming for the sole reason that it costs them micro-transactions. Remember the cooldown nerf on Smash, that was FBWG farming. Remember the Sabotage nerfs, that was FBWG farming and also this was before they buffed geth into godhood when they were the easiest faction.

They nerfed the cooldown on the slash abilities because they were being used the FBWG farm by alot of PUGs. I do not agree with Bioware's crusade against farming and camping simply because it is completely legitimate for people to play the game this way as they are not cheating in anyway.

Modifié par MajorStupidity, 05 mars 2013 - 03:11 .

[Tonymac]

I think that the nerfer point of view is lacking - at least as far as the AIU is concerned.

If a player is not good and does not know the game, this robot will not make you a better player. It will give you more chances to learn surviving strageies - thats all.

The nerfer mentality of concerning ones self with how others play is pretty silly in my opinion. Worry about yourself. Anything else is wasted time and breath.

[DHKany]

This thread is beyond entertaining to read.

[MajorStupidity]

DHKany wrote...

This thread is beyond entertaining to read.

Aren't these threads always entertaining to read

[Tonymac]

MajorStupidity wrote...

DHKany wrote...

This thread is beyond entertaining to read.

Aren't these threads always entertaining to read

Its like arm-chair quarterbacks arguing.  Neither of them knows football, nor makes any money at it - yet they are convinced they are the best and know the most.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

While balance is needed in every game, balance doesn't have to be as tight as PvP games in PvE.

Especially when it has reached his end life.

[DungeonHoek]

MajorStupidity wrote...

DungeonHoek wrote...

I want to believe you that Bioware SOLEY looks at the data, but, those other incidents are rather coincidental don't you think?

Though you do have a point at least with the untouched stuff.

I believe the coincidence happened because we all know Bioware is against farming for the sole reason that it costs them micro-transactions. Remember the cooldown nerf on Smash, that was FBWG farming. Remember the Sabotage nerfs, that was FBWG farming and also this was before they buffed geth into godhood when they were the easiest faction.

They nerfed the cooldown on the slash abilities because they were being used the FBWG farm by alot of PUGs. I do not agree with Bioware's crusade against farming and camping simply because it is completely legitimate for people to play the game this way as they are not cheating in anyway.

Well, I certainly can't argue how they changed White and boxed up Glacier like they did. Arguebly to strike at farming. But yeah, those nerfs did seem strange.

And the Geth, oh lord. I stayed away from them until more recently. Stun lock hell.

But still, a good number of the things nerfed, the community was screaming about and demonizing like it was the worst thing to ever exist.

[MajorStupidity]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

While balance is needed in every game, balance doesn't have to be as tight as PvP games in PvE.

Especially when it has reached his end life.

QFT

[DungeonHoek]

Tonymac wrote...

MajorStupidity wrote...

DHKany wrote...

This thread is beyond entertaining to read.

Aren't these threads always entertaining to read

Its like arm-chair quarterbacks arguing.  Neither of them knows football, nor makes any money at it - yet they are convinced they are the best and know the most.

Well, share the chips and the tub-o-mayo already!