342 réponses à ce sujet

[Dorick]

I agree hausner, let the "nerfing" commence. Balance keeps a game fun, and challenging. Remember how many missile glitchers their used to be? I am assuming all missile glitchers oppose nerfs bv they dont play ME3 for the challenge, just the reward.

[xtorma]

Annomander wrote...

Well written post, OP.

I agree completely, however, there will always be people who are lazy and poorl skilled, who desire the godmode that the TGI and AIU offer. Most infiltrator kits are actually pretty dull to play, unfortunately some people just like being overpowered... and for some of us who crave balance this is an aberration.

Only they are not trying to balance the game, they are simply throwing out bones. If they were even half heartedly trying there would not be such a huge disparity between the best character and the worst. or the best weapon and the worst. They seem to have quit balancing for performance a long time ago, and now balance around preference.

[Immortal Strife]

Dorick wrote...

I agree hausner, let the "nerfing" commence. Balance keeps a game fun, and challenging. Remember how many missile glitchers their used to be? I am assuming all missile glitchers oppose nerfs bv they dont play ME3 for the challenge, just the reward.

Idiocracy at it's finest. 
   

[xtorma]

Dorick wrote...

I agree hausner, let the "nerfing" commence. Balance keeps a game fun, and challenging. Remember how many missile glitchers their used to be? I am assuming all missile glitchers oppose nerfs bv they dont play ME3 for the challenge, just the reward.

It's people like you that give the balance crowd a good name.

[Hausner85]

xtorma wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Well written post, OP.

I agree completely, however, there will always be people who are lazy and poorl skilled, who desire the godmode that the TGI and AIU offer. Most infiltrator kits are actually pretty dull to play, unfortunately some people just like being overpowered... and for some of us who crave balance this is an aberration.

Only they are not trying to balance the game, they are simply throwing out bones. If they were even half heartedly trying there would not be such a huge disparity between the best character and the worst. or the best weapon and the worst. They seem to have quit balancing for performance a long time ago, and now balance around preference.

It look like this now more then ever. There are dozen of needed tweaks and yet we are getting only some strange balance changes. For example all rare AR are waiting for buff same as HVB for them. In the meantime Slayers gots a buff that make Novaguard look stupid... The eagle is buffed in to sky while Valiant is forgotten.. And don't start me on bugs that cannot be addressed properly

Edit: Also Bioware has a very strange idea of balance they release things absurdly owe powered just to nerf them to the ground one month later

Modifié par Hausner85, 05 mars 2013 - 05:59 .

[Zodhiarche]

@ OP

You wrote an interesting plea and you defend your ideas with passion. I have no problem with that. I understand that it's your opinion and I see your logic even if I don't agree with you.

1- You title is too much offensive. It's a troll bait.

2- It's not a competitive game. BioWare said it's a cooperative one, cooperative it is.

3- Scoreboard is not an evidence of a competitive game. What exactly do you want ? A sorted list by names ? By amount of hours played ?

4- Score points have only one goal : leveling your characters. All 4 players have the same amount of points at the end of the game.

5- N7 and Challenge points are not an evidence of a competitive game. It doesn't tell you if a player is good or not. It's useless and just a epeen thing.

6- OP kits don't kill the game. UP kits neither.

7- I didn't mind getting outscored by 3 infiltrators with Krysae as long as I had a full extaction. Because it's a cooperative game. It should be the same thing for you.

8- Nerfs kill the game, buffs kill it too. Krysae is one of the best example. Its charging mechanism was unique and made the weapon special (with its others mechanisms). Nerf ruined that (even if there was a good reason for the nerf : it doesn't stop the missile glitching).

9- You think an OP kit made the game boring ? We don't need nerfs to resolve that. BioWare made a button only for you : "leave lobby".

10- All "underpowered" kit can survive in gold+ games, with the help of 3 good players. Final score doesn't matter. We don't need buffs.

11- You don't like OP kits ? Don't play them. You don't want to play with OP kits ? You have the choice to not playing with them. Leave the lobby, kick the player, ask him to play with another one or play with friends.

12- Not learning to play the game is not OP kits' fault. It's a player's behavior matter. And I don't know how someone could fix that...

13- I understand that with your nerfs, you don't want to destroy the game but let's be honest : nerfs/buffs didn't resolve problems, they just added more of them.

I hope you won't see these point as offensive or insulting. Just my opinion.
Cheers.

[Faithful Sinner]

Nerfers are stupid. Plain and simple. Just as in real life, we all are not created equal. And allowing nerfing to take place to the degree we have on ME3 is sad. I know the flamers are going to come after me and that's fine. Guess what nerfers. If you feel "OP kits/weapons" ruin the game then you can always leave pre-game lobby or even better, take you "balanced ***" into a private match using Predators against Collectors Platinum.

[EloreRainbrought]

Zodhiarche wrote...

@ OP

You wrote an interesting plea and you defend your ideas with passion. I have no problem with that. I understand that it's your opinion and I see your logic even if I don't agree with you.

1- You title is too much offensive. It's a troll bait.

2- It's not a competitive game. BioWare said it's a cooperative one, cooperative it is.

3- Scoreboard is not an evidence of a competitive game. What exactly do you want ? A sorted list by names ? By amount of hours played ?

4- Score points have only one goal : leveling your characters. All 4 players have the same amount of points at the end of the game.

5- N7 and Challenge points are not an evidence of a competitive game. It doesn't tell you if a player is good or not. It's useless and just a epeen thing.

6- OP kits don't kill the game. UP kits neither.

7- I didn't mind getting outscored by 3 infiltrators with Krysae as long as I had a full extaction. Because it's a cooperative game. It should be the same thing for you.

8- Nerfs kill the game, buffs kill it too. Krysae is one of the best example. Its charging mechanism was unique and made the weapon special (with its others mechanisms). Nerf ruined that (even if there was a good reason for the nerf : it doesn't stop the missile glitching).

9- You think an OP kit made the game boring ? We don't need nerfs to resolve that. BioWare made a button only for you : "leave lobby".

10- All "underpowered" kit can survive in gold+ games, with the help of 3 good players. Final score doesn't matter. We don't need buffs.

11- You don't like OP kits ? Don't play them. You don't want to play with OP kits ? You have the choice to not playing with them. Leave the lobby, kick the player, ask him to play with another one or play with friends.

12- Not learning to play the game is not OP kits' fault. It's a player's behavior matter. And I don't know how someone could fix that...

13- I understand that with your nerfs, you don't want to destroy the game but let's be honest : nerfs/buffs didn't resolve problems, they just added more of them.

I hope you won't see these point as offensive or insulting. Just my opinion.
Cheers.

starting from 8~13; how am i not agree...

[COLZ7R]

If nerffs are based completelly on in game use i have doubts the aiu will cop it. Juggs and krolords are used far more than her and all i do is pug gold. Hell the gi would have been nerffed into the ground if bsn is to be believed about usage.
Idc if some pug gets ressed 50 times in a game, still plenty for me to kill, will prob still have to do the objectives myself also. I just dont get why its such a big deal. Its not like they are missile glitching, its NOT god mode, if it were why do i see most of them bleeding out in gold matches? Comming in 4th in the scores?

[nicethugbert]

The Nerfers are indoctrinated by the Troll Store.

[etm125]

Faithful Sinner wrote...

Nerfers are stupid. Plain and simple. Just as in real life, we all are not created equal. And allowing nerfing to take place to the degree we have on ME3 is sad. I know the flamers are going to come after me and that's fine. Guess what nerfers. If you feel "OP kits/weapons" ruin the game then you can always leave pre-game lobby or even better, take you "balanced ***" into a private match using Predators against Collectors Platinum.

An incredible in-depth analysis of the kit being discussed! That's so good of you to take the time to compare it to other relatively similar kits and powers. I hadn't thought of the synergy created by that other kit and weapon/power. They too clearly have little to no downside, great survivability and DPS. They are on par with the AIU's powers and DPS. Clearly, she is not as overpowered and far beyond other kits as I thought.

This polite, thoughtful analytical post has changed my viewpoint on the matter. I have seen the error of my ways and thank you for taking the time to do so. Well done! 

[quebra]

xtorma wrote...

Dorick wrote...

I agree hausner, let the "nerfing" commence. Balance keeps a game fun, and challenging. Remember how many missile glitchers their used to be? I am assuming all missile glitchers oppose nerfs bv they dont play ME3 for the challenge, just the reward.

It's people like you that give the balance crowd a good name.

WTF do missle glitchers have to do with nerfing?  Not a damn thing.  BIOWARE, fix the glitches and community stop epeening about nerfing.

Can all the nerf crowd just go play COD of BF3 please?

[Lucky]

quebra wrote...

Can all the nerf crowd just go play COD of BF3 please?

No we love mass effect 3, whether you are willing to accept that or not makes no difference.

[78stonewobble]

With the amount of classes in the game I find it the epitome of selfimportance and selfishness to argue that every single one of them should be balanced to ones own subjective definition of balance.

[Hausner85]

Zodhiarche wrote...

@ OP

You wrote an interesting plea and you defend your ideas with passion. I have no problem with that. I understand that it's your opinion and I see your logic even if I don't agree with you.

1- You title is too much offensive. It's a troll bait.

2- It's not a competitive game. BioWare said it's a cooperative one, cooperative it is.

3- Scoreboard is not an evidence of a competitive game. What exactly do you want ? A sorted list by names ? By amount of hours played ?

4- Score points have only one goal : leveling your characters. All 4 players have the same amount of points at the end of the game.

5- N7 and Challenge points are not an evidence of a competitive game. It doesn't tell you if a player is good or not. It's useless and just a epeen thing.

6- OP kits don't kill the game. UP kits neither.

7- I didn't mind getting outscored by 3 infiltrators with Krysae as long as I had a full extaction. Because it's a cooperative game. It should be the same thing for you.

8- Nerfs kill the game, buffs kill it too. Krysae is one of the best example. Its charging mechanism was unique and made the weapon special (with its others mechanisms). Nerf ruined that (even if there was a good reason for the nerf : it doesn't stop the missile glitching).

9- You think an OP kit made the game boring ? We don't need nerfs to resolve that. BioWare made a button only for you : "leave lobby".

10- All "underpowered" kit can survive in gold+ games, with the help of 3 good players. Final score doesn't matter. We don't need buffs.

11- You don't like OP kits ? Don't play them. You don't want to play with OP kits ? You have the choice to not playing with them. Leave the lobby, kick the player, ask him to play with another one or play with friends.

12- Not learning to play the game is not OP kits' fault. It's a player's behavior matter. And I don't know how someone could fix that...

13- I understand that with your nerfs, you don't want to destroy the game but let's be honest : nerfs/buffs didn't resolve problems, they just added more of them.

I hope you won't see these point as offensive or insulting. Just my opinion.
Cheers.

1. On the title. You're probably right i wanted it to be a little provocative so people get interested and participate. But it seems that people take it a little too serious and get offended quite easy. Still it would be wrong to change it now.

2. Type of game play is co-op but i think that 90% of time people compete with each other in therms of scores.

3. As above

4. So why don't all point's come to one pot during the match?

5. E-peen and competitiveness are like brother and sister (Even if it is really who plays more)

6. OP kits cam make game boring and this can kill the game

7. I don't like when the game becomes to easy without work put in to it

8. Bad Nerfs do... It's true and unfortunately the Bioware has a PHD in bad nerfs. They only thing they nerfed almost correctly is N7 Piranha

9. If something is clearly overpowered looking for a good lobby can become a nightmare quite fast like in the old days when 80% of gold lobby's where FBWGG. Also as i said before i want other players to become proper Gold/Plat players who can play more then one kit.

10. No kit should be rallying on good teammates in order to survive

11 As above. I don't use overpowered kits (except for challenge) and not every one can play all the time with friends

12 So should we encourage that with OP kits?

13 Some buffs made the game much better. Some nerfs (like first Krysea nerf) save it from degradation. The problem is not the existence of nerf/buffs per se but the constant Bioware ability to miss the sweet spot...

Nothing offensive... I was rather nice to be able to confront with your arguments

[GroverA125]

It's no longer a question of select kits being overpowered, it's a question of "Are the original kits still powerful enough for use on higher difficulties?"

Let's look at it this way, I have just as much chance of getting a Drell Adept (or Vanguard, I forget) as I do getting a Geth Juggernaut from a pack, the difference is that one is hilariously powerful, and the other is relatively weak overall in comparison.

With these new additions to the game, balance dictates that higher difficulties become more difficult to compensate. The addition of Dragoons and Bombers, as well as Collectors, took many classes down a notch, if not completely relegating them to lower difficulties. This should not be the case. New content shouldn't be more powerful than previous content of the same rarity, it should be a new look on a niche or tactic, but it shouldn't flat out say "goodbye <insert previous race/class here> I'm taking your place".

Most, if not all previous classes are now hilariously outmatched by new ones, and the original race/classes are weak enough to never see use in matches unless the person hasn't had time to open a Reserves Pack yet.

I propose that the original races in ME3 receive a buff to place them on a level where they are not rendered immediately outmoded by newer classes. They should still have a fighting chance on the same difficulties, but instead they are just cannon fodder that are only welcome on bronze-silver. These classes deserve a raise in power to make them be able to stand on similar footing to their alternatives, as without these classes recieving buffs, any chance of new players joining the game are rapidly dwindled, as the first match they play, they do nothing whatsoever and get kicked for being a noob. They can't even get started on the game because everything else is so damn powerful and they have nothing that is even remotely effective, meaning you either have to be a hardcore fan of the game to fight through the stages of complete defenselessness, or have a friend or group of friends to guide you through. If you have neither of these, there's a low chance we'll be seeing you in two months.

A greater thoughtset is "are there more OP classes than there are UP classes? Which side is quicker to balance? How long will it take before the starting weapons are treated as tier weapons?" We're at the year mark now, if anyone's going to play the game, they either have done now or probably aren't going to play MP, so starting equipment being so weak is pointless and only serves as a method of culling any casual players who just want to enjoy a co-op MP experience.

Modifié par GroverA125, 05 mars 2013 - 06:32 .

[Hausner85]

etm125 wrote...

Faithful Sinner wrote...

Nerfers are stupid. Plain and simple. Just as in real life, we all are not created equal. And allowing nerfing to take place to the degree we have on ME3 is sad. I know the flamers are going to come after me and that's fine. Guess what nerfers. If you feel "OP kits/weapons" ruin the game then you can always leave pre-game lobby or even better, take you "balanced ***" into a private match using Predators against Collectors Platinum.

An incredible in-depth analysis of the kit being discussed! That's so good of you to take the time to compare it to other relatively similar kits and powers. I hadn't thought of the synergy created by that other kit and weapon/power. They too clearly have little to no downside, great survivability and DPS. They are on par with the AIU's powers and DPS. Clearly, she is not as overpowered and far beyond other kits as I thought.

This polite, thoughtful analytical post has changed my viewpoint on the matter. I have seen the error of my ways and thank you for taking the time to do so. Well done! 

QFT...Well said. We always get those don't we? At every gentlemen meeting there must be at least one redneck

Modifié par Hausner85, 05 mars 2013 - 06:37 .

[doozerdude]

Hausner85 wrote...

We are not. In fact we are trying to save it even while you can’t see it. 

+1

We'll bang, ok?

[Lucky]

Thing is Grover you are wrong about the old classes being underpowered. Every single one of them is easily platinum viable and the original human soldier is still one of the absolute best classes in the game. Since none of the old classes are actually underpowered and are viable on any difficulty it stands to reason that some of the new ones are overpowered.

[Hausner85]

rlucht wrote...

Thing is Grover you are wrong about the old classes being underpowered. Every single one of them is easily platinum viable and the original human soldier is still one of the absolute best classes in the game. Since none of the old classes are actually underpowered and are viable on any difficulty it stands to reason that some of the new ones are overpowered.

Well from the vanilla classes i would say that Quarian and Salarian engineer are underpowered but that is all...

[Lucky]

Hausner85 wrote...

rlucht wrote...

Thing is Grover you are wrong about the old classes being underpowered. Every single one of them is easily platinum viable and the original human soldier is still one of the absolute best classes in the game. Since none of the old classes are actually underpowered and are viable on any difficulty it stands to reason that some of the new ones are overpowered.

Well from the vanilla classes i would say that Quarian and Salarian engineer are underpowered but that is all...

Yeah pets in general do need buffed since the don't have any crowd control anymore they need to contribute some more significant damage. But those are exceptions to the rule, like the vorch engineer and volus mercenary are exceptions to the rule that a lot of new kits are very powerful.

[nicethugbert]

Things in ME3 MP that are A LOT more boring than OP content.
1) Troll store.
2) Not starting out with at least one level in each piece of content so you can sample the content and see what you would most like to unlock.
3) Not being able to trade unlocks with each other.
4) Cheap/Cheating Enemy AI.
5) Broken Animation system.
6) Narrow and unadjustable Field of View.
7) One Button of Doom
8) Venus Fly Trap Cover
9) My character taking up a third of my screen.
10) Cement booted Turians
11) Slow Drell, i.e. Drell should have faster shield regen and movement speed by default, not a power.
12) Passives.
13) Low weight capacity on soldiers and only carry 2 weapons max.
14) Gelded Krogans
15) Indoctrinated Nerfers
16)  Etc.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 05 mars 2013 - 06:46 .

[OGWS]

I don't play super-elite platinum with super-elite friends so anything that makes most of the randoms in gold less terrible is fine by me

Also, thank you for telling me how I feel about the game, apparently I'm not elite enough to figure it out myself

[N7 Whiskey]

OP sounds like a Socialist Democrat. "We know what's best for you, so just sit back and let us fix everything. Everything and everyone will be equal now, well, except for us."

Thanks, but no thanks. We are perfectly capable of policing ourselves. If we don't want an OP kit/weapon in a PUG, we will boot them. If we don't want to deal with PUGs, we will start a private lobby.

[N7 Spectre525]

This **** cracks me up. OP I wasn't aware I needed you to save my game. Your self importance is amusing.