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THE TURIAN SABOTEUR IS AMAZING * (now with Guide) *


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#1
ThatOddGuy

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(I've moved the original post to my second post in this topic, two posts down, for clarification. I posted this guide on the 3rd page, as I have finally settled on a build for this character. To all those who are due credit: Thank you for helping me put this build together with your ideas, and clarifications upon my original questions. This build is incredibly fun and surprisingly effective.)

(I plan on creating more build guides in the future, if there is any interest. If you like the way I lay out my guide, and the amount of depth I go into as a result of my obsessive compulsion, feel free to request a guide and I'll see if I can put some time aside)

 - - - THE TURIAN SABOTEUR IS AMAZING - - - ThatOddGuy's odd build guide.

I've decided to create a build guide for this character because I feel that 9/10 people have a huge misconception with this character.

I'll go right ahead and say that yea, other kits probably have powers that are better or have better synergy. In the defence of the Turian Saboteur Engineer, I'd like to point out that at least the passives are solid, and the innate traits of Armiger Turians are a huge bonus.

Now to get started: here is the build I have settled on:
Turian Saboteur Engineer

Note that while this obviously isn't an "overpowered" "optimal" "god tier" kit, this build is incredibly fun to play as, and has a lot of flavor. I was topping Gold with this build by relatively large margins. Commonly misconstrued, the Turian Saboteur is not a Combat Engineer. He is a Special Operative agent. His powers resemble fancy gadjets that he pulls out of his freakishly convenient utility belt. Or suitcase.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that the Turian Saboteur Engineer is basically like James Bond. Which is why I absolutely love the M-11 Suppressor on him.

The Hurricane also offers a great feel of the cliche Hollywood "FBI crashing in through the window and bullet-hosing everything in the room with an SMG at the hip" thing. 

This build is also very unique, as it has an answer for everything. Like the Turian Sentinel, perhaps the Saboteur doesn't specialize in anything compared to certain god-tier kits. But he can do it all. He's effective against mooks, bosses, and mobs. He's very mobile, so screw you magnet hands! He's durable for his speed. He's effective at all ranges.

(6/4/6/6/4)

Sabotage -6- Backfire, Explosive Hack, Tech Vulnerability

- The main purpose of this power is to synergize with the weapon of choice (M-11 Suppressor), which I will get to later. Basically, I am a console scrub, so a power like this is necessary to land headshots at longer ranges.

- An alternative purpose of this power is to prime Tech Bursts. It is partthe reason I leveled this power up to rank 6, but not the only reason. Note that it primes for Tech Bursts 1.5 seconds after the orange "cloud" appears. You will see blue electricity wrought upon the target. This delay happens to synergize perfectly with Homing Grenades, the detonating ability.

- There are a lot of side-uses for Sabotage, but unfortunately people are foolish enough to believe they are the primary purposes of the power and thus dismiss it. In reality, these perks are simply tertiary objectives of the power in question.

-- Damage (backfire): This damage comes when the target is primed; 1.5 seconds after Sabotage hits. Between the low damage and the delay, this is why this power is not primarily for damage. Rather, this damage comes in after you pot a few shots. The most useful aspect of this portion of the power is the fact that it might save you a shot from your pistol. Sometimes this helps, sometimes one could care less.

-- Explosive Hack: it only works on hackable (synthetic) targets, so it's very situational to begin with. I'll carry on to note that the damage also doesn't mean much. What Exlposive Hack is useful for is the fact that it staggers everybody it hits. In a tight situation, a quick Sabotage -> Headshot can stun an entire mob. With the Jetpack, this can quickly net you plenty of breathing room; a godsend versus Geth.

-- Tech Vulnerability: apparently useless on this class, except it boosts your Heavy Melee damage. As minute as that sounds, it allows you to smush mooks with a Sabotage -> Heavy Melee much quicker, and with no risk of missing (Armiger Heavy Melee can be hard to hit with at times). It can also be a very useful tactic for playing aggressively, because his Heavy Melee can close in on a target very quickly, and it tosses unshielded mooks.

   More importantly, Tech Vulnerability increases the damage your teammates can cause with various abilities. If you see a Vorcha roasting an Atlus, hack it! More damage, and a brief moment of safety from the Atlus's janky guns? Deal.


Sentry Turret -4- Shock

- I only put 4 Ranks into Sentry Turret. Currently I have 6 because it was the first time I spec'd it, and I have yet to change it. The Rockets are okay, and the Cryo Ammo doesn't mean much unless you have Incinerate (FQE).

- Sentry Turret is the power in this build with no synergy. Flamethrower is a real pain to detonate without hitscan powers, and even then it's unreliable. The rockets are weak where it matters (gold).

- All Sentry Turret really is good for is repelling fodder enemies (Husks, Swarmers, Abominations, Seekers) and stealing kills. You throw it out there, and you see it randomly show up on the kill feed from time to time. It has a super low cooldown, and all your sacrificing for it is ~200ish Shields.

- Rank 4 gives a Shock feature. Once in a while, it stuns stuff. Again, low cost (200 shields), low CDT, free damage. Why not?


Homing Grenade -6- Damage, Fire Damage, Armor Damage

- Homing Grenade gets a lot of flack around here, and while I can understand some quirks with the ability, it's largely undeserved. In the case of the Demolisher, it's only really good for detonating Tech Bursts and providing more Grenade capacity. However, that's largely a result of the way I see a lot of people spec'ing it.

- Homing Grenade is designed to cripple a single target. If you want more than one enemy dead as a result of your Homing Grenade, prime a target with Sabotage, first. This power is not designed to nuke spawns. This power is designed to break armor. And yes, other powers do it better. Whoopty doo.

- This power does have synergy with this kit. It synergizes with the priming delay of Sabotage, as it has travel time. It also synergizes with the weapon choice; most notably the secondary weapon (N7 Hurricane).

- Take all damage evolutions. Like I said, it's all about single targets. With the Grenade gear, you have 7 Grenades at a time; and although they have travel time, they can still be spammed relatively quickly.

- Fire Damage doesn't Prime for Fire Explosions. Most know this, many don't. Turian Saboteur couldn't detonate them if he wanted to anyways. No big loss. Take the Fire Damage anyways, however, because it provides a solid amount of damage over time, which helps even more against bosses as you pewpewpew them to death with the Hurricane.

- Most importantly, take Armor Damage and Armor Debuff for rank 6. This causes Homing Grenades to actually do some decent damage, despite not taking any power damage evolutions in the passives. In addition to the base damage, and the added fire damage, this rank gives you Armor Mitigation for 8 seconds (more than you need). This makes your Hurricane deal loads of damage to armor WITHOUT using Armor Piercing rounds. It gives you some freedom as far as Ammo Powers go, which is great.

- I see way too many people choosing Split Grenade. Don't do it. That's not what this power is for. Radius falls under the same issue. Maybe a different kit wants Homing Grenade for Crowd Control. Not this one. Homing Grenade is for Tech Burst detonation and Boss Damage and Debuffing. And it works.


The Passives -6- Weapon Damage and Stability, Headshots, Weapon Damage and Stability

- Pretty straight forward. The damage this kit outputs is through the weapons, using the Powers and their synergy to supplement this. Homing Grenade's damage is useful, but it is secondary to the weapons. Sabotage's direct damage is mostly a bonus.

- Tech Burst damage has no benefit from Power Damage, so there's no loss there. Just get both Sabotage and Homing Grenade to rank 6.

- The Stability bonus gives you a little more flexibility with the Hurricane. However, you will find that after a few rounds, you only switch to it for a few enemies.


Fitness -4- Health and Shields

- Straight forwards. You want to at least have the Turret, and rank 5 Fitness is largely useless. Rank 4 is 1050 Shields, which is plenty for a character that is so mobile.



Weapon Choice

Although yours may vary, as there are some options, I believe that what I have set for this class is optimal.

Primary Weapon: M-11 Suppressor
Mods: Magazine Upgrade + Cranial Trauma Systems

Basically, shoot heads or you're doing it wrong. I am a console scrub, so Sabotage helps save time, especially at long ranges. Saved time = more time for more dead stuff. The Suppressor, with the right amps, is capable of popping (gold) mook heads in one shot. With Sabotage, you know you can walk away from enemies who have a sliver of remaining health, as they will just die in a second.

Any mook with a head is made a fool by the Suppressor. The only enemies who will give you issues are Dragoons, as they can be hard to stagger. Once in a while, Sabotage will make them step back. Luckily, however, these dorks have Armor, so they eat more damage from Homing Grenades.

Protip for Phantoms: If no one else is shooting powers at it to prompt the Bubbke of Doom, then shoot a Homing Grenade at her. It wont do damage, but she'll stand perfectly still. Perfect time for head popping (same tactic I learned for the QFI - Javelin, using Stickies)

Anything your M-11 Suppressor can't pop from headshot damage, you can use your secondary weapon against:


Secondary Weapon: N7 Hurricane
Mods: Ultralight Materials + Magazine Upgrade

I choose Ultralights because the Hurricane is just a sidearm. Your primary focus is killing mooks. With your mobility, you can rack up points from mook kills much faster than bosses. This puts you in a support role, and the weapon of choice there is the Suppressor. Therefore, with the minimal usage this gun will see (if you're doing it right) gives ULM merit, when usually there is none. If you're okay with adding 1 second to your Sabotage Cooldown, use Extended Barrel or Armor Piercing Barrel. I found that I used this weapon so much that the extra 1 second was more valuable than anything else I would need from what the Hurricane already provided.

Magazine Upgrade is more useful on this build than Heat Sink, because between grenades and Suppressor, you will be frequently visiting the ammo box. The Armiger Jetpack's innate mobility makes this much less a problem than some other builds. I tried using Extended Barrel instead of Magazine Upgrade, but prefered more ammo.


Alternative Weapon Choices[/u][u]
If Suppressor is not your thing (or you don't have it), there are other weapons that you can choose from. The best are weapons that like headshots.

Various sniper rifles are good. Kishock is one to note, because it is relatively light and bypasses Shield Gate. Collector Sniper Rifle and Indra are always good.

Saber
Graal - Headshot bonus, no Shield Gate
Executioner - this pistol is just fun
Arc Pistol - No headshot bonus, but higher overall DPS otherwise.
Collector SMG - Might be worth using if it's a high level. Does more damage to armor, which is all the Hurricane is really used for in the first place. 


(Always prone to updates)

Enjoy!

Modifié par ThatOddGuy, 21 mars 2013 - 08:59 .


#2
Gearsofwarowns

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ThatOddGuy wrote...

 1) How does Sabotage interact with Tech Bursts? If I Sabotage, then launch a Homing Grenade, will it Tech Burst?

2) Does Sabotage "Tech Vulnerability" perk increase Homing Grenade damage? Homing Grenade Fire Damage (rank 5)? Tech Burst damage? I hear it affects melee damage (OOoooOOH >.>)

3) Can Homing Grenade set up Fire Explosions with Rank 5b? Even though nothing can set them off...

4) Rank 6a's armor damage... I've never understood what the Debuff actually does.


1) Sabotage primes tech bursts on non-synthetic targets only i believe.
2) I think I remember reading somewhere that it did, don't know for sure though.
3) Yes.
4) It means the power does (percent) MORE damage to armor, as in the power is more effective to use against armor.

#3
ThatOddGuy

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(Original first post)

- - - (old) EDIT - - -
This build is totally ridiculous

M-11 Suppressor is insane with Sabotage - the best Stunning power in the game. Enemies stand still and upright. No keeling over or leaning back. They just stop moving.

Sabotage + Homing Grenade is a Tech Burst. Tech Burst only primes 1.5 seconds after Sabotage hits, but luckily the Homing Grenade takes that long to hit!

ULM Hurricane is the perfect boss-mowing sidearm. I might switch ammo capacity for High Caliber Barrel for more damage. I never really run out of ammo, and things usually die before I need to reload.

Homing Grenade is perfect with Hurricane. The armor mitigation allows you to use AP rounds I and you get the maximum armor penetration. The DPS there is pretty nutty with the passives at hand, the added Fire Damage, and the Armor Mitigation.

Sentry Turret is the only ability that I'm not sold on, but even at that, I just leave it places and it pops up on the kill list in the corner. Good stuff. Might switch to Flamethrower to protect me from Husks, Abominations, and Swarmers and stuff. And Fire Explosions!

/EDIT 

- - - ORIGINAL POST - - - 

1) How does Sabotage interact with Tech Bursts? If I Sabotage, then launch a Homing Grenade, will it Tech Burst?

2) Does Sabotage "Tech Vulnerability" perk increase Homing Grenade damage? Homing Grenade Fire Damage (rank 5)? Tech Burst damage? I hear it affects melee damage (OOoooOOH >.>)

3) Can Homing Grenade set up Fire Explosions with Rank 5b? Even though nothing can set them off...

4) Rank 6a's armor damage... I've never understood what the Debuff actually does.


Now, regarding a build I am considering. I'll start off by saying that I love Sabotage for stunning enemies. I say it's second to none in that regard. I plan on running this guy with a M-11 Suppressor and have some fun headshotting all the things. Homing Grenades will be my Anti-Boss back-up plan, probably using Grenade Capacity gear and more than likely a ULM Hurricane to use alongside the armor debuff.

Should I even spec into Turret? I don't have much experience with the Quarian/Turian turret, or the Flamethrower in general. But since I am speccing into weapon damage, I really see no reason to spec into the Turret, since their destraction abilities have been hit so hard.


I'm looking at 6/0/6/6/6, with weapon and health passives.

Backfire and Explosive hack Sabotage. Not sure about rank 6 yet. Depends on its synergy with Homing Grenade, although I suppose having the whole team deal extra damage is good enough...? Berserk is kind of pointless. I could put 3 ranks into Turret, but... meh.

No Turret.

Homing Grenade for damage, fire damage, armor damage. I don't want it for CC, and I only want to hit one target. Bosses.



Is this build a complete waste of time? x.x I quite like Sabotage, and its CDT is fixed and have only used it on the CDT-independant FQI (Javelin <3 )




(original second post)
4) I mean the mitigation debuff part. It does 60% more to Armor, then 50% MORE? I'm confused.

Modifié par ThatOddGuy, 21 mars 2013 - 08:45 .


#4
ThatOddGuy

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Can anybody clarify what 50% armor mitigation does?

#5
ROBOTICSUPERMAN

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http://narida.pytalh...ighterPackage5/

My build. Love it

#6
ROBOTICSUPERMAN

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The armour mitigation is that it will reduce the enemy's armour resistance for 8 seconds. Armour as standard has a 90% damage resistance(ap mods and damage reduction caps at 90 too). If you use this and an ap mod to hit a total 90% armour buffs, the weapon damage you will be doing will be the maximum damage you can do to armour. Hope this helps

#7
BlackDahlia424

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Sabotage does NOT increase homing grenade damage - peddro confirmed that. And the debuff only refers to reducing the armor damage reduction. It doesn't act the way proximity mine does.

#8
BlackDahlia424

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ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...

The armour mitigation is that it will reduce the enemy's armour resistance for 8 seconds. Armour as standard has a 90% damage resistance(ap mods and damage reduction caps at 90 too). If you use this and an ap mod to hit a total 90% armour buffs, the weapon damage you will be doing will be the maximum damage you can do to armour. Hope this helps


This isn't correct. Armor reduces the damage of bullets by a flat value - scaled to difficulty. And you can achieve 100% mitigation by stacking mods and ammo.

#9
ThatOddGuy

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So is Rank 6a good on Homing Grenades? I specifically want them for mowing bosses. Does it have essentially the same type of effect as AP weapon mods? If so, that's good, because I'd be switching to my Hurricane against bosses.

For that same reason, I don't want to use Split Grenade.

Here's the build in mind. Thoughts?

http://narida.pytalh...enadeCapacity5/

#10
ROBOTICSUPERMAN

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BlackDahlia424 wrote...

ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...

The armour mitigation is that it will reduce the enemy's armour resistance for 8 seconds. Armour as standard has a 90% damage resistance(ap mods and damage reduction caps at 90 too). If you use this and an ap mod to hit a total 90% armour buffs, the weapon damage you will be doing will be the maximum damage you can do to armour. Hope this helps


This isn't correct. Armor reduces the damage of bullets by a flat value - scaled to difficulty. And you can achieve 100% mitigation by stacking mods and ammo.


you can't achieve 100% armour pierce. It caps at 90%

#11
ThatOddGuy

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 This build (now editted into OP) is amazing.

#12
UEG Donkey

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ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...

The armour mitigation is that it will reduce the enemy's armour resistance for 8 seconds. Armour as standard has a 90% damage resistance(ap mods and damage reduction caps at 90 too). If you use this and an ap mod to hit a total 90% armour buffs, the weapon damage you will be doing will be the maximum damage you can do to armour. Hope this helps


This isn't correct. Armor reduces the damage of bullets by a flat value - scaled to difficulty. And you can achieve 100% mitigation by stacking mods and ammo.


you can't achieve 100% armour pierce. It caps at 90%

pedro disagrees

#13
ThatOddGuy

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Well, the point is you have more options for ammo powers (or weapon mods) because the Grenades provide armor mitigation. They also pop tech bursts from Sabotage, as well as any ammo power you set up combos with.

Homing Grenades are awesome, and Sabotage is the best stunning power in the game; now with fast cooldown!

My current build uses Sentry Turret because I hadn't previously spec'd TSE, so I had a rank in it. I decided to use it rather than a respec card. It seems okay, but it doesn't really do a whole lot. Thinking maybe I should have spec'd for Flame Thrower instead of Rockets, to detonate with Homing Grenade. But I dunno.

Good stuff. Suppressor is the perfect weapon.

#14
DukeEB

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The sentry turret is pretty good as a pure offence helper. I've got it specced for shields/armor piercing/flamethrower

#15
capn233

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UEG Donkey wrote...

pedro disagrees

Armor damage reduction is 50 points on Gold+.

You can in fact get 100% armor piercing to ignore the whole 50.  Where does this "90%" cap come from?

And if you think this is good, maybe try Suppressor on QFI.

#16
Shampoohorn

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ThatOddGuy wrote...

Well, the point is you have more options for ammo powers (or weapon mods) because the Grenades provide armor mitigation. They also pop tech bursts from Sabotage, as well as any ammo power you set up combos with.

Homing Grenades are awesome, and Sabotage is the best stunning power in the game; now with fast cooldown!

My current build uses Sentry Turret because I hadn't previously spec'd TSE, so I had a rank in it. I decided to use it rather than a respec card. It seems okay, but it doesn't really do a whole lot. Thinking maybe I should have spec'd for Flame Thrower instead of Rockets, to detonate with Homing Grenade. But I dunno.

Good stuff. Suppressor is the perfect weapon.


Your tech bursts will do about 70% more damage if you spec sabotage through evolution 6b-TechVuln.  This is because a 6x6 TB does more damage than the 4x6 you currently have specced, plus the extra 50% from the Sabotage evolution.

Hack Duration on sabotage is fairly useless since most allies see the orange paint and immediately focus fire.

If you're not playing him as a close range kit, you should drop fitness down to 0 ranks and max everything else. 750 shields and Armiger dodge is great for enough for most B/S/Gold situtations.

I prefer to play him as a melee kit, using Sabotage to prime them for massive damage.  I favor speccing out of homing grenades since I'll be using Jugg Shields in the gear slot.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 11 mars 2013 - 07:35 .


#17
Pho Kadat

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Suppressor is an interesting idea, but I think I'd still prefer to use the Arc pistol.

#18
Devoidparanoia

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hes stilll one of the best engineers, the top 3 bieng sabo, QME and geth

#19
JamesDobry

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Said no one ever.

#20
KiraTsukasa

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capn233 wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...

pedro disagrees

Armor damage reduction is 50 points on Gold+.

You can in fact get 100% armor piercing to ignore the whole 50.  Where does this "90%" cap come from?

And if you think this is good, maybe try Suppressor on QFI.


The 90% cap comes damage reduction applied on the player, I believe. Armor does have a damage reduction, but it's a completely different system than what is applied to players. So he is completely wrong about it.

Also, I believe 90% damage block is the enemy shield gate on gold and platinum.

#21
Super Nothing

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KiraTsukasa wrote...

capn233 wrote...

UEG Donkey wrote...

pedro disagrees

Armor damage reduction is 50 points on Gold+.

You can in fact get 100% armor piercing to ignore the whole 50.  Where does this "90%" cap come from?

And if you think this is good, maybe try Suppressor on QFI.


The 90% cap comes damage reduction applied on the player, I believe. Armor does have a damage reduction, but it's a completely different system than what is applied to players. So he is completely wrong about it.

Also, I believe 90% damage block is the enemy shield gate on gold and platinum.


From the Balance Changes Thread:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
August 28, 2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gold and Platinum Difficulties
- Enemy shield/barrier damage gates on weapon damage reduced from 90% to 75%, which means
  25% of the remaining weapon damage will pass through to health.

#22
ThatOddGuy

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Shampoohorn wrote...

ThatOddGuy wrote...

Well, the point is you have more options for ammo powers (or weapon mods) because the Grenades provide armor mitigation. They also pop tech bursts from Sabotage, as well as any ammo power you set up combos with.

Homing Grenades are awesome, and Sabotage is the best stunning power in the game; now with fast cooldown!

My current build uses Sentry Turret because I hadn't previously spec'd TSE, so I had a rank in it. I decided to use it rather than a respec card. It seems okay, but it doesn't really do a whole lot. Thinking maybe I should have spec'd for Flame Thrower instead of Rockets, to detonate with Homing Grenade. But I dunno.

Good stuff. Suppressor is the perfect weapon.


Your tech bursts will do about 70% more damage if you spec sabotage through evolution 6b-TechVuln.  This is because a 6x6 TB does more damage than the 4x6 you currently have specced, plus the extra 50% from the Sabotage evolution.

Hack Duration on sabotage is fairly useless since most allies see the orange paint and immediately focus fire.

If you're not playing him as a close range kit, you should drop fitness down to 0 ranks and max everything else. 750 shields and Armiger dodge is great for enough for most B/S/Gold situtations.

I prefer to play him as a melee kit, using Sabotage to prime them for massive damage.  I favor speccing out of homing grenades since I'll be using Jugg Shields in the gear slot.



Do you know if Tech Vulnerability increases damage from Tech Bursts? Because it doesn't up homing grenade damage. Although I would guess that it WOULD increase Sentry Turret damage (lol?)

I do move around pretty quick and get up close and personal with this guy, even though I probably don't need to. In all likelyhood, if/when I respec, I'll be speccing out of Turret for 6 points in Sabotage. Although I'm not totally sure, since Flamethrower (which I should have spec'd into) looks pretty enticing.

#23
ThatOddGuy

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After some more thought, I think Sentry Turret is mostly pointless. I've been looking at my Sabotage, wishing I had tech vulnerability for the sole reason that I see a teammate hitting a boss with Flamer, and wishing I could buff that damage for him.

Teammates use Tech Powers all the time. That's reason enough to use Tech Vulnerability.

The only thing I don't understand is why there isn't a single kit in the game that can utilize this synergy on its own (outside of Sticky Grenades, which are TERRIBLE)

Sentry Turret pulls a few freebee kills a match, but I don't think it has much merit overall. Of all the classes that have it, only the Geth Engineer has any real reason to spec into it, and it's a different and much better Turret, Combat Drone and Decoy are in the same boat.

#24
lightswitch

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ThatOddGuy wrote...

Do you know if Tech Vulnerability increases damage from Tech Bursts? Because it doesn't up homing grenade damage.


Peddro believes that it debuffs tech combos, I asked about it, http://social.biowar...ndex/15619759/2 scroll to the bottom

Modifié par lightswitch, 16 mars 2013 - 11:05 .


#25
ThatOddGuy

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I re-asked the question in that thread. Thanks for the link. I really want to know for sure.