138 réponses à ce sujet

[ThatOddGuy]

Typhoon really seems like the wrong choice of weapon with this guy.

[KiraTsukasa]

I still wish he had Flamer and Submission Net instead of Sentry Turret and Sabotage.

[why maker why]

ThatOddGuy wrote...

Typhoon really seems like the wrong choice of weapon with this guy.

My point is I really didn't know what to do with this guy (he was one of the first rare kits I unlocked) and the Typhoon was also unlocked around the same time.

I like to think nowadays I make better choices...:innocent:

[ThatOddGuy]

why maker why wrote...

ThatOddGuy wrote...

Typhoon really seems like the wrong choice of weapon with this guy.

My point is I really didn't know what to do with this guy (he was one of the first rare kits I unlocked) and the Typhoon was also unlocked around the same time.

I like to think nowadays I make better choices...:innocent:

I see.

Well, try my build, and try M-11 Suppressor. I strongly advocate it as a solid (not god-tier) build that is VERY fun to play with.

[SavagelyEpic]

why maker why wrote...

He was ok w/ husks

wut

[ThatOddGuy]

Husks = melee, no matter who I'm using

[KiraTsukasa]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

why maker why wrote...

He was ok w/ husks

wut

Detonate Tech Armor.

[ThatOddGuy]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

SavagelyEpic wrote...

why maker why wrote...

He was ok w/ husks

wut

Detonate Tech Armor.

:3

[RamsenC]

I really dislike the turret so I just spec melee and do Sabo > Graal headshots + melee for mooks and Hurricane/Homing for bosses. Definitely not one of my favorites, but it has a unique flavor.

[ThatOddGuy]

RamsenC wrote...

I really dislike the turret so I just spec melee and do Sabo > Graal headshots + melee for mooks and Hurricane/Homing for bosses. Definitely not one of my favorites, but it has a unique flavor.

Definitely unique. Not huge on Armiger melee. I think I just need to L2P, though. I always miss.

Was considering Graal, but the Suppressor is impossible to drop lol.

[Sacrificial Bias]

 "Unique" is right:D.

My Build:
6/6/0/6/6

Sabotage - Backfire/Explosive Hack/Tech Vulnerability
Sentry Turret - Shields/AP/Rockets
Passives - Power & Cap/Power/Damage & Stability
Fitness - All shields

Weapon - Scorpion III with Power Magnifier V & ULM V

Gear - Omni-Capacitors V


And before you ask, this is not a Geth only setup.  If nothing else, you might want to avoid Geth like the plague.

The name of the game is AoE damage and indirect killing(literally).  Basically just throw out the turret, spam sabotage, and shoot in between.  While it's not an easy top score and I wouldn't use this on Gold and up, I never quite get dead last.  If anything, I normally score 1st or 2nd.  The main reason being that AoE powers typically get you a higher score because of all them assist points.

Sabotage is frequently criticized, but the damage isn't half bad.  Because tech vulnerability applies to the backfire damage, you're basically doing around 900 damage per cast every 3 seconds, in a 3.25m radius.  And FYI, the backfire damage applies to ALL organics, not just those with guns.  It's just a simple 900 damage 1.5s after its use, sort of like Ballistic Blades.

Add the constant stagger to that and your turret is usually firing away completely unmolested.  Fill in the gaps with your scorpion and you're a real mook killer.

Bosses are tougher to handle, but you can leave those for your teammates.

Not the strongest kit, but arguably the most "fun".

[ThatOddGuy]

Homing Grenades are actually good on this kit. I think the biggest problem this kit has is that people are doing it wrong.

@Sacrificial Bias: sorry, but case in point.

[Flambrose]

ThatOddGuy wrote...

Homing Grenades are actually good on this kit. I think the biggest problem this kit has is that people are doing it wrong.

@Sacrificial Bias: sorry, but case in point.

You had to go there.

[ThatOddGuy]

(Added this to orginal post. The one in the OP is subject to change. This one in this post will just stay the same because it's a pain to edit any post with color... for some reason it uncolors it.)

I've decided to create a build guide for this character because I feel that 9/10 people have a huge misconception with this character.

I'll go right ahead and say that yea, other kits probably have powers that are better or have better synergy. In the defence of the Turian Saboteur Engineer, I'd like to point out that at least the passives are solid, and the innate traits of Armiger Turians are a huge bonus.

Now to get started: here is the build I have settled on:
Turian Saboteur Engineer

Note that while this obviously isn't an "overpowered" "optimal" "god tier" kit, this build is incredibly fun to play as, and has a lot of flavor. Commonly misconstrued, the Turian Saboteur is not a Combat Engineer. He is a Special Operative agent. His powers resemble fancy gadjets that he pulls out of his freakishly convenient utility belt. Or suitcase.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that the Turian Saboteur Engineer is basically like James Bond. Which is why I absolutely love the M-11 Suppressor on him.

The Hurricane also offers a great feel of the cliche Hollywood "FBI crashing in through the window and bullet-hosing everything in the room with an SMG at the hip" thing. 

This build is also very unique, as it has an answer for everything. Like the Turian Sentinel, perhaps the Saboteur doesn't specialize in anything compared to certain god-tier kits. But he can do it all. He's effective against mooks, bosses, and mobs. He's very mobile, so screw you magnet hands! He's durable for his speed. He's effective at all ranges.

(6/4/6/6/4)

Sabotage -6- Backfire, Explosive Hack, Tech Vulnerability

- The main purpose of this power is to synergize with the weapon of choice (M-11 Suppressor), which I will get to later. Basically, I am a console scrub, so a power like this is necessary to land headshots at longer ranges.

- An alternative purpose of this power is to prime Tech Bursts. It is partthe reason I leveled this power up to rank 6, but not the only reason. Note that it primes for Tech Bursts 1.5 seconds after the orange "cloud" appears. You will see blue electricity wrought upon the target. This delay happens to synergize perfectly with Homing Grenades, the detonating ability.

- There are a lot of side-uses for Sabotage, but unfortunately people are foolish enough to believe they are the primary purposes of the power and thus dismiss it. In reality, these perks are simply tertiary objectives of the power in question.

-- Damage (backfire): This damage comes when the target is primed; 1.5 seconds after Sabotage hits. Between the low damage and the delay, this is why this power is not primarily for damage. Rather, this damage comes in after you pot a few shots. The most useful aspect of this portion of the power is the fact that it might save you a shot from your pistol. Sometimes this helps, sometimes one could care less.

-- Explosive Hack: it only works on hackable (synthetic) targets, so it's very situational to begin with. I'll carry on to note that the damage also doesn't mean much. What Exlposive Hack is useful for is the fact that it staggers everybody it hits. In a tight situation, a quick Sabotage -> Headshot can stun an entire mob. With the Jetpack, this can quickly net you plenty of breathing room; a godsend versus Geth.

-- Tech Vulnerability: apparently useless on this class, except it boosts your Heavy Melee damage. As minute as that sounds, it allows you to smush mooks with a Sabotage -> Heavy Melee much quicker, and with no risk of missing (Armiger Heavy Melee can be hard to hit with at times). It can also be a very useful tactic for playing aggressively, because his Heavy Melee can close in on a target very quickly, and it tosses unshielded mooks.

   More importantly, Tech Vulnerability increases the damage your teammates can cause with various abilities. If you see a Vorcha roasting an Atlus, hack it! More damage, and a brief moment of safety from the Atlus's janky guns? Deal.


Sentry Turret -4- Shock

- I only put 4 Ranks into Sentry Turret. Currently I have 6 because it was the first time I spec'd it, and I have yet to change it. The Rockets are okay, and the Cryo Ammo doesn't mean much unless you have Incinerate (FQE).

- Sentry Turret is the power in this build with no synergy. Flamethrower is a real pain to detonate without hitscan powers, and even then it's unreliable. The rockets are weak where it matters (gold).

- All Sentry Turret really is good for is repelling fodder enemies (Husks, Swarmers, Abominations, Seekers) and stealing kills. You throw it out there, and you see it randomly show up on the kill feed from time to time. It has a super low cooldown, and all your sacrificing for it is ~200ish Shields.

- Rank 4 gives a Shock feature. Once in a while, it stuns stuff. Again, low cost (200 shields), low CDT, free damage. Why not?


Homing Grenade -6- Damage, Fire Damage, Armor Damage

- Homing Grenade gets a lot of flack around here, and while I can understand some quirks with the ability, it's largely undeserved. In the case of the Demolisher, it's only really good for detonating Tech Bursts and providing more Grenade capacity. However, that's largely a result of the way I see a lot of people spec'ing it.

- Homing Grenade is designed to cripple a single target. If you want more than one enemy dead as a result of your Homing Grenade, prime a target with Sabotage, first. This power is not designed to nuke spawns. This power is designed to break armor. And yes, other powers do it better. Whoopty doo.

- This power does have synergy with this kit. It synergizes with the priming delay of Sabotage, as it has travel time. It also synergizes with the weapon choice; most notably the secondary weapon (N7 Hurricane).

- Take all damage evolutions. Like I said, it's all about single targets. With the Grenade gear, you have 7 Grenades at a time; and although they have travel time, they can still be spammed relatively quickly.

- Fire Damage doesn't Prime for Fire Explosions. Most know this, many don't. Turian Saboteur couldn't detonate them if he wanted to anyways. No big loss. Take the Fire Damage anyways, however, because it provides a solid amount of damage over time, which helps even more against bosses as you pewpewpew them to death with the Hurricane.

- Most importantly, take Armor Damage and Armor Debuff for rank 6. This causes Homing Grenades to actually do some decent damage, despite not taking any power damage evolutions in the passives. In addition to the base damage, and the added fire damage, this rank gives you Armor Mitigation for 8 seconds (more than you need). This makes your Hurricane deal loads of damage to armor WITHOUT using Armor Piercing rounds. It gives you some freedom as far as Ammo Powers go, which is great.

- I see way too many people choosing Split Grenade. Don't do it. That's not what this power is for. Radius falls under the same issue. Maybe a different kit wants Homing Grenade for Crowd Control. Not this one. Homing Grenade is for Tech Burst detonation and Boss Damage and Debuffing. And it works.


The Passives -6- Weapon Damage and Stability, Headshots, Weapon Damage and Stability

- Pretty straight forward. The damage this kit outputs is through the weapons, using the Powers and their synergy to supplement this. Homing Grenade's damage is useful, but it is secondary to the weapons. Sabotage's direct damage is mostly a bonus.

- Tech Burst damage has no benefit from Power Damage, so there's no loss there. Just get both Sabotage and Homing Grenade to rank 6.

- The Stability bonus gives you a little more flexibility with the Hurricane. However, you will find that after a few rounds, you only switch to it for a few enemies.


Fitness -4- Health and Shields

- Straight forwards. You want to at least have the Turret, and rank 5 Fitness is largely useless. Rank 4 is 1050 Shields, which is plenty for a character that is so mobile.



Weapon Choice[/i][i]

Although yours may vary, as there are some options, I believe that what I have set for this class is optimal.

Primary Weapon: M-11 Suppressor 
Mods: Magazine Upgrade + Cranial Trauma Systems

Basically, shoot heads or you're doing it wrong. I am a console scrub, so Sabotage helps save time, especially at long ranges. Saved time = more time for more dead stuff. The Suppressor, with the right amps, is capable of popping (gold) mook heads in one shot. With Sabotage, you know you can walk away from enemies who have a sliver of remaining health, as they will just die in a second.

Any mook with a head is made a fool by the Suppressor. The only enemies who will give you issues are Dragoons, as they can be hard to stagger. Once in a while, Sabotage will make them step back. Luckily, however, these dorks have Armor, so they eat more damage from Homing Grenades.

Protip for Phantoms: If no one else is shooting powers at it to prompt the Bubbke of Doom, then shoot a Homing Grenade at her. It wont do damage, but she'll stand perfectly still. Perfect time for head popping (same tactic I learned for the QFI - Javelin, using Stickies)

Anything your M-11 Suppressor can't pop from headshot damage, you can use your secondary weapon against:


Secondary Weapon: N7 Hurricane
Mods: Ultralight Materials + Magazine Upgrade

I choose Ultralights because the Hurricane is just a sidearm. Your primary focus is killing mooks. With your mobility, you can rack up points from mook kills much faster than bosses. This puts you in a support role, and the weapon of choice there is the Suppressor. Therefore, with the minimal usage this gun will see (if you're doing it right) gives ULM merit, when usually there is none. If you're okay with adding 1 second to your Sabotage Cooldown, use Extended Barrel or Armor Piercing Barrel. I found that I used this weapon so much that the extra 1 second was more valuable than anything else I would need from what the Hurricane already provided.

Magazine Upgrade is more useful on this build than Heat Sink, because between grenades and Suppressor, you will be frequently visiting the ammo box. The Armiger Jetpack's innate mobility makes this much less a problem than some other builds. I tried using Extended Barrel instead of Magazine Upgrade, but prefered more ammo.

Modifié par ThatOddGuy, 21 mars 2013 - 08:42 .

[Mindlog]

The only build I have never deployed. Might give this a shot some time this weekend.
Problem though: I only have a Hurricane X. Hopefully the build still works OK with that.

[ThatOddGuy]

Mindlog wrote...

The only build I have never deployed. Might give this a shot some time this weekend.
Problem though: I only have a Hurricane X. Hopefully the build still works OK with that.

Oh shucks. You're hooped.

Mine is only III. With a Hurricane III, I have moved on to use mostly M-11 Suppressor, which I consider my primary weapon. Perhaps if mine were X, it would be more equal 


The build is incredibly fun. I hope you enjoy it.

[Cheylus]

Thank you for the guide, it's very interesting.
I'll name my Saboteur "Oddity".

Modifié par Cheylus, 21 mars 2013 - 08:33 .

[ThatOddGuy]

Thank you for reading it. I know, it's really long.

I hope Oddity serves you well.

[Miniditka77]

ThatOddGuy wrote...

Secondary Weapon: N7 Hurricane
Mods: Ultralight Materials ]Magazine Upgrade

I choose Ultralights because the Hurricane is just a sidearm. Your primary focus is killing mooks. With your mobility, you can rack up points from mook kills much faster than bosses. This puts you in a support role, and the weapon of choice there is the Suppressor. Therefore, with the minimal usage this gun will see (if you're doing it right) gives ULM merit, when usually there is none. If you're okay with adding 1 second to your Sabotage Cooldown, use Extended Barrel or Armor Piercing Barrel. I found that I used this weapon so much that the extra 1 second was more valuable than anything else I would need from what the Hurricane already provided.

Magazine Upgrade is more useful on this build than Heat Sink, because between grenades and Suppressor, you will be frequently visiting the ammo box. The Armiger Jetpack's innate mobility makes this much less a problem than some other builds. I tried using Extended Barrel instead of Magazine Upgrade, but prefered more ammo.

You should use different mods on the Hurricane.  If you're using it for bosses (especially on Gold), you must absolutely have either the Extended Barrel or HVB.  HVB is preferred unless you're using AP rounds.  You are severely gimping your damage rate if you don't.  Extended Mag or Heat Sink is also a necessity.  BTW, Heat Sink is better.  And I'm pretty sure it's better than the Extended Mag for magazine size too - not just for conserving spare ammo.

Modifié par Miniditka77, 21 mars 2013 - 08:56 .

[Cheylus]

First try with Oddity, I joined a Gold PUG. I used Disruptor Ammos and I was kinda lucky: it was the Geths. I used two missiles to clean some places.
I rarely used my sidearm (Hurricane X), but I had a better score than a level 13 TGI / Lancer X, a Infiltrator / BW V and an Asari Adept / Hurricane. They were, in my opinion, very good players.



You're right. It IS really fun. I'll give it a try against Cerberus next time.

Modifié par Cheylus, 21 mars 2013 - 09:08 .

[ThatOddGuy]

Miniditka77 wrote...

ThatOddGuy wrote...

Secondary Weapon: N7 Hurricane
Mods: Ultralight Materials ]Magazine Upgrade

I choose Ultralights because the Hurricane is just a sidearm. Your primary focus is killing mooks. With your mobility, you can rack up points from mook kills much faster than bosses. This puts you in a support role, and the weapon of choice there is the Suppressor. Therefore, with the minimal usage this gun will see (if you're doing it right) gives ULM merit, when usually there is none. If you're okay with adding 1 second to your Sabotage Cooldown, use Extended Barrel or Armor Piercing Barrel. I found that I used this weapon so much that the extra 1 second was more valuable than anything else I would need from what the Hurricane already provided.

Magazine Upgrade is more useful on this build than Heat Sink, because between grenades and Suppressor, you will be frequently visiting the ammo box. The Armiger Jetpack's innate mobility makes this much less a problem than some other builds. I tried using Extended Barrel instead of Magazine Upgrade, but prefered more ammo.

You should use different mods on the Hurricane.  If you're using it for bosses (especially on Gold), you must absolutely have either the Extended Barrel or HVB.  HVB is preferred unless you're using AP rounds.  You are severely gimping your damage rate if you don't.  Extended Mag or Heat Sink is also a necessity.  BTW, Heat Sink is better.  And I'm pretty sure it's better than the Extended Mag for magazine size too - not just for conserving spare ammo.

I tried replacing Magazine Upgrade with Extended Barrel, and found the former a lot more effective. The higher damage was okay, but I found myself getting caught with my pants down reloading at inopportune moments. The only way to use HCB is to replace ULM with it; and as I said, that comes down to preference: faster Sabotage or stronger Hurricane. I mostly use the Suppressor, so I am gaining more benefit from rapid Sabotages than an extra bit of damage against bosses, who I only prioritize in certain situations.

HCB is overall more useful than HVB because of the Grenades. But you are right, you want penetration coming from somewhere, typically. This build allows you to use low-level AP and Drill Rounds without a real penalty, in terms of utility.

On average, Heat Sink gets any given magizine 40% more ammo. Magazine Upgrade is good for 80%, so it's twice as good. Ammo conservation is only necessary if you want nothing to do with ammo boxes. However, ammo boxes are a frequent visit for the Suppressor anyways, so you don't really need more reserve ammo for the Hurricane, which is already plentiful in that regard.

It starts to make more sense once you start adopting the style necessary to make this build truly effective: to be incredibly aggressive and constantly on the move.

[ThatOddGuy]

Cheylus wrote...

First try with Oddity, I joined a Gold PUG. I used Disruptor Ammos and I was kinda lucky: it was the Geths. I used two missiles to clean some places.
I rarely used my sidearm (Hurricane X), but I had a better score than a level 13 TGI / Lancer X, a Infiltrator / BW V and an Asari Adept / Hurricane. They were, in my opinion, very good players.

Good stuff, friend.

AND did you have fun doing it?


EDIT: It just goes to show that for there to be that many points involved in a 21 minute gold match, it must have been a complete killing frenzy. And you topped the charts.

And you see what I mean about the Hurricane being a secondary? I always expected the Suppressor to be the primary, but I never expected that I would prefer not to switch even against certain bosses if they have a head and I have ammo. This kit makes the Suppressor an incredible gun.

Modifié par ThatOddGuy, 21 mars 2013 - 09:11 .

[Cheylus]

Yes. I didn't use more than 10 Homing Grenades in the entire game though, just to be used to Sabotage + Suppressor.
I guess this will be very effective with other factions once I'll be used to the rhythm "Sabotage... > Homing Grenade".

edit: the only real flaw of this build is the magazine of the Suppressor, imo.

edit2: for the record, I modded my Hurricane with Heat Sink+AP Barrel, and my Suppressor with Extended Mag+Cranial Trauma System. 
I don't know if it was lag-dependant (I wasn't hosting) but sometimes enemies were dying some time after I shot (is there a delay between the death of a synthetic enemy and its explosion/Sabotage?); it's very quick though, less tan a second. Becaue of this, some shots were lost because I sometimes thought the enemy wasn't really dead. 

edit3: having both weapons at X, I had a 130% cooldown. I always try to have between 130 and 200, so it's perfect.

Modifié par Cheylus, 21 mars 2013 - 09:21 .

[ThatOddGuy]

That's a Geth thing, really. And Cerberus. The Homing Grenades make you more effective against the factions without synthetics. Scions, Brutes and Ravagers drop like flies. But it is also largely to do with rhythm. I'm generally very stingy with grenades, so it took a few matches to get used to the fact that you make so many ammo runs that there is really no harm in shooting the Grenades.

Against Geth, if there are three enemies in one spot, just Hack and 'Nade. Between the hack, the radius backfires, the exploding hack, and the Tech Bursts, nobody is moving. The Crowd Control is INSANE for a two-power combo that doesn't need a Falcon to make it look good. Those enemies are either dead or they are standing still. Tech Bursts also clear those pesky Drones and Turrets when you don't feel like shooting them.

One of my favorite things about this build is that it is my go-to kit versus Collectors. Those pricks have huge heads! Even the Scions. For a kit with Sabotage, it's surprising that Geth are not the easiest faction for this character.

And I also typically run with Disruptor ammo, because I seem to notice that the bonus headshot damage doesn't appear to apply to hitting shields... not sure if it's just me though.

[Tallgeese_VII]

I've read the whole thing.

Why is he amazing again?