why maker why wrote...
My point is I really didn't know what to do with this guy (he was one of the first rare kits I unlocked) and the Typhoon was also unlocked around the same time.ThatOddGuy wrote...
Typhoon really seems like the wrong choice of weapon with this guy.
I like to think nowadays I make better choices...:innocent:
Tallgeese_VII wrote...
I've read the whole thing.
Why is he amazing again?
Modifié par RamsenC, 21 mars 2013 - 09:39 .
Modifié par Tech Domain, 21 mars 2013 - 09:43 .
RamsenC wrote...
Tallgeese_VII wrote...
I've read the whole thing.
Why is he amazing again?
Well he isn't, but he has some novelty. Hurricane + Suppressor = bad times against the phantom/goon army, which is generally why I go Graal. Scorpion + Wraith head shots would also be good.
Modifié par ThatOddGuy, 21 mars 2013 - 09:53 .
Tech Domain wrote...
...
Regarding his powers, the FQI can do pretty much everything he can better. Plus her grenades also benefit from tech vulnerability. The only real difference is that she has TC instead of a crappy turret.
....
I asked here before whether they do or not. I was told the complete opposite.Shampoohorn wrote...
Tech Domain wrote...
...
Regarding his powers, the FQI can do pretty much everything he can better. Plus her grenades also benefit from tech vulnerability. The only real difference is that she has TC instead of a crappy turret.
....
They do not benefit from TV. Peddro and co. have shown this in his Numerical thread. None of the grenades benefit (not even Arcs) from TV.
Shampoohorn wrote...
I don't hate this class. I've played him as a melee build with just sabotage specced and he's fun to play. But I keep seeing that word 'Amazing' in your thread title and end up shaking my head. Sentry turret is a mild power. Homing grenades are the least of the grenades.
Tech Domain wrote...
He is not amazing. It doesn't matter if you can top the board. That's all down to the player.
He has poor synergy. Sure, he can self detonate Tech Burst, but they don't exactly deal a spectacular amount of damage, and the actual time it takes him to do this is almost not worth the effort. They're also dependant on a power which has limited use. Homing nades are buggy as hell. Damage payout is good, assuming you actually hit the target.
Denationing Fire Explosions from flame turret are unreliable. As you've summed up yourself.
Regarding his powers, the FQI can do pretty much everything he can better.Plus her grenades also benefit from tech vulnerability.The only real difference is that she has TC instead of a crappy turret.
He is completely and utterly weapon dependant. There are so many other kits which do it better, namely the QMS and FQI since they also have Sabo, and of course the mighty Ghost, since he's an Armiger too.
If you enjoy playing him then good for you, even I have occasionally. But he is not a good character, not by a long shot.
Shampoohorn wrote...
Tech Domain wrote...
...
Regarding his powers, the FQI can do pretty much everything he can better. Plus her grenades also benefit from tech vulnerability. The only real difference is that she has TC instead of a crappy turret.
....
They do not benefit from TV. Peddro and co. have shown this in his Numerical thread. None of the grenades benefit (not even Arcs) from TV.
ThatOddGuy wrote...
Phantoms and Goons are made a complete piece of cake. I pointed it out in the build, but I'll reiterate: Homing Grenades. Sabotage -> Homing Grenade = Tech Burst and some DOT. Easily enough stagger to finish off him and co. with headshots.
Phantom: shoot a nade, and she puts up bubble. Proceed to headshot. Piece of cake.
RamsenC wrote...
ThatOddGuy wrote...
Phantoms and Goons are made a complete piece of cake. I pointed it out in the build, but I'll reiterate: Homing Grenades. Sabotage -> Homing Grenade = Tech Burst and some DOT. Easily enough stagger to finish off him and co. with headshots.
Phantom: shoot a nade, and she puts up bubble. Proceed to headshot. Piece of cake.
That's fine 1v1, but any class should be able to handle that fine. I'm more concerened with 2 Dragoons + 1 Phantom. Extra Graal CC helps and the Scorpion makes it easy mode if you go that route. Doesn't help that the Homing Grenade is so slow. If it works for you that's good and it probably means you are a skilled player, but it's definitely harder that way.
Kogia wrote...
The phrase is 'couldn't care less'.
Its very simple, 'could care less' means you could care less, ie. you care somewhat, couldn't care less means it is impossible for you to care any less.
Why has this very simple phrase become so tricky for so many people.
Oh and its nice that you like him, when people say he's rubbish they aren't saying nobody should play him, they're referring to the lack of synergy of his skills. He's one of those kits that if you do well with him, you'd have done significantly better with several other kits, but if you're having fun with the kit then knock yourself out, but fun does not suddenly make the kit superior.
The Heat Sink is actually 45%, not 40%. Regardless, the Heat Sink gives far more than 45% more ammo in a magazine. Every round that is "saved" by using the Heat Sink has a 45% chance of being "saved" again. So in a 40-round magazine, you will have approximately 18 extra rounds that get "saved", and then 8 of those rounds will get "saved" again, and 3-4 of those rounds will get "saved" again, and then 1-2 of those rounds will get "saved" again. So on average, you will get 70-72 rounds out of a 40-round magazine using the Heat Sink. The Extended Mag gives you 72 rounds. Plus, the Heat Sink works on your entire ammo supply, and Extended Mag doesn't. Therefore, the Heat Sink is always better unless you know for certain that you will never have to worry about running out of spare ammo.ThatOddGuy wrote...
I tried replacing Magazine Upgrade with Extended Barrel, and found the former a lot more effective. The higher damage was okay, but I found myself getting caught with my pants down reloading at inopportune moments. The only way to use HCB is to replace ULM with it; and as I said, that comes down to preference: faster Sabotage or stronger Hurricane. I mostly use the Suppressor, so I am gaining more benefit from rapid Sabotages than an extra bit of damage against bosses, who I only prioritize in certain situations.
HCB is overall more useful than HVB because of the Grenades. But you are right, you want penetration coming from somewhere, typically. This build allows you to use low-level AP and Drill Rounds without a real penalty, in terms of utility.
On average, Heat Sink gets any given magizine 40% more ammo. Magazine Upgrade is good for 80%, so it's twice as good. Ammo conservation is only necessary if you want nothing to do with ammo boxes. However, ammo boxes are a frequent visit for the Suppressor anyways, so you don't really need more reserve ammo for the Hurricane, which is already plentiful in that regard.
It starts to make more sense once you start adopting the style necessary to make this build truly effective: to be incredibly aggressive and constantly on the move.
Modifié par Miniditka77, 21 mars 2013 - 10:32 .
but either evo is ok really.
Tech Domain wrote...
I asked here before whether they do or not. I was told the complete opposite.Shampoohorn wrote...
Tech Domain wrote...
...
Regarding his powers, the FQI can do pretty much everything he can better. Plus her grenades also benefit from tech vulnerability. The only real difference is that she has TC instead of a crappy turret.
....
They do not benefit from TV. Peddro and co. have shown this in his Numerical thread. None of the grenades benefit (not even Arcs) from TV.
Thanks anyway.
Eh, you have some good points there, admittedly.ThatOddGuy wrote...
The difference is that TSE puts all that together. Like I said, he doesn't specialize in one aspect, but he does it all.
I also like Homing Grenades more than Sticky.
FQI is my go-to sniper. Best for one-shot weapons, and certainly squishier and slightly less mobile. It's also slightly unfair to compare anything to Tactical Cloak. Everybody knows the infiltrators are inherently better than most of the kits this game has to offer.
Quarian Marksman is also a little different, because I would say Suppressor doesn't really gain from Marksman other than Headshots, which don't really need that much more attention. I would rather have Armiger passives and jetpack, shields, and Homing Grenade over Tactical Scan in most situations, because of Tech Bursts.
Qsol and QFI are certainly better in some cases at what the TSE does, but they are even better when serving other purposes. This leaves this niche to the TSE, who is not only effective, but extremely fun.
And yes, it is good. To consistently top gold, a build has to at least be good. To be AMAZING needs more, and I think the fun factor puts him up there.
Miniditka77 wrote...
The Heat Sink is actually 45%, not 40%. Regardless, the Heat Sink gives far more than 45% more ammo in a magazine. Every round that is "saved" by using the Heat Sink has a 45% chance of being "saved" again. So in a 40-round magazine, you will have approximately 18 extra rounds that get "saved", and then 8 of those rounds will get "saved" again, and 3-4 of those rounds will get "saved" again, and then 1-2 of those rounds will get "saved" again. So on average, you will get 70-72 rounds out of a 40-round magazine using the Heat Sink. The Extended Mag gives you 72 rounds. Plus, the Heat Sink works on your entire ammo supply, and Extended Mag doesn't. Therefore, the Heat Sink is always better unless you know for certain that you will never have to worry about running out of spare ammo.ThatOddGuy wrote...
I tried replacing Magazine Upgrade with Extended Barrel, and found the former a lot more effective. The higher damage was okay, but I found myself getting caught with my pants down reloading at inopportune moments. The only way to use HCB is to replace ULM with it; and as I said, that comes down to preference: faster Sabotage or stronger Hurricane. I mostly use the Suppressor, so I am gaining more benefit from rapid Sabotages than an extra bit of damage against bosses, who I only prioritize in certain situations.
HCB is overall more useful than HVB because of the Grenades. But you are right, you want penetration coming from somewhere, typically. This build allows you to use low-level AP and Drill Rounds without a real penalty, in terms of utility.
On average, Heat Sink gets any given magizine 40% more ammo. Magazine Upgrade is good for 80%, so it's twice as good. Ammo conservation is only necessary if you want nothing to do with ammo boxes. However, ammo boxes are a frequent visit for the Suppressor anyways, so you don't really need more reserve ammo for the Hurricane, which is already plentiful in that regard.
It starts to make more sense once you start adopting the style necessary to make this build truly effective: to be incredibly aggressive and constantly on the move.
Anyway, the Heat Sink / Extended Mag debate is minor. The real issue is the ULM use. It's not a matter of preference, you are really seriously gimping your damage output by not using one of the barrels. If you're OK with relying on other players to handle boss enemies, then that's fine... but I have been in too many bad PUGs to go into a Gold match with inferior armor damage output.
EDIT: Don't read this as criticizing your build as a whole - I like the idea, and I will try it as soon as I get a Suppressor (for some reason, I have weirdly gotten 7 UR weapon drops and only a single new Rare weapon drop since the DLC came out).
peddro seems to know what he's talking about, and I've seen him post before. I presume it's solid.Shampoohorn wrote...
TV does not effect Homing Grenades.
Even though Homing Grenades are boosted by the Engineering Pack.
Likewise, stickies get no bonus from TV.
I hope that give you a clearer answer. If you can't trust peddro...
Modifié par Tech Domain, 21 mars 2013 - 10:52 .
ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...
your build looks pretty interesting, stagger and stun lock everything! headshots, someone understands this character.
http://narida.pytalh...ighterPackage5/http://narida.pytalh...ighterPackage5/
+armour piercing ammo
this is my build, I prefer the damage of the argus over the suppressor, but any headshotting weapon will do really(ive only tried the vindicator and suppressor).
ive speced into sabotage evo 5 recharge and passives evo 4 damage and capacity to keep sabotages recharge quick, for lazy headshots.
ive speced evo 4 duration on sabotage because I like the Cerberus turrets gunning stuff
for the turret, evo 4 shields and damage, and evo 5 armour piercing ammo are a must have IMO. the armour piercing ammo causes the turret to fire 6 shots per burst, rather than 3, the damage difference is huge.
on your turret, a burst will do 135*3 = 405
mine will be doing 176.25*6 = 1057.5 to health, shields and barrier per burst. 352.5*6 = 2115 against armour per burst
this makes the turret more valuable in a match than some pugs
Tech Domain wrote...
Eh, you have some good points there, admittedly.ThatOddGuy wrote...
The difference is that TSE puts all that together. Like I said, he doesn't specialize in one aspect, but he does it all.
I also like Homing Grenades more than Sticky.
FQI is my go-to sniper. Best for one-shot weapons, and certainly squishier and slightly less mobile. It's also slightly unfair to compare anything to Tactical Cloak. Everybody knows the infiltrators are inherently better than most of the kits this game has to offer.
Quarian Marksman is also a little different, because I would say Suppressor doesn't really gain from Marksman other than Headshots, which don't really need that much more attention. I would rather have Armiger passives and jetpack, shields, and Homing Grenade over Tactical Scan in most situations, because of Tech Bursts.
Qsol and QFI are certainly better in some cases at what the TSE does, but they are even better when serving other purposes. This leaves this niche to the TSE, who is not only effective, but extremely fun.
And yes, it is good. To consistently top gold, a build has to at least be good. To be AMAZING needs more, and I think the fun factor puts him up there.
I just think calling him "amazing" is stretching it a little. He's fun to play, definitely gold viable. The thing is, so many other kits can do what he does, often better, and then some.
It's funny how this kit would perform exceptionally well in comparision if they simply replaced one of his powers with another. Sabo or Sentry for Incinerate, for example.
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